"Last Call" for the BFD, and a look at the new FBQ2496

[ThomasW]

Behringer is discontinuing the ($99) DSP1124P.



It's replacement is the ($150) FBQ2496

The newer unit has improved ergonomics and more filters, 20 per channel vs 12.

If you don't need the added filters and want to save $50 get your DSP1124P now, while the retailers still have stock.

01/16/07, Edit to update, when this thread was first posted it was a bit of a false alarm, however now the Behringer DSP1124P is no longer being produced and stock in certain places is running out (Europe for example). Whatever's in the retail pipeline is all that's left. So get one soon if you want one

[Chris D]

Oh, cool. Maybe I should upgrade my BFD! I saw this in my latest Parts Express catalog.

If anybody wants my DSP1124P BFD, I'm open to selling.

[Bent]

Chris, I'd be interested if nobody local to me wants to sell theirs.
caveat... I need a couple of weeks to save up first.

[Chris D]

Hey, where's a good place to buy the new BFD model? I bought my last one at Parts Express. I think they're asking for $189.

[Spearmint]

From owners I have spoken to the new model doesn’t suffer from the transformer hum/buzz of some of the 1100 & 1124 units.

[dyazdani]

Hey, where's a good place to buy the new BFD model? I bought my last one at Parts Express. I think they're asking for $189.

Parts Express is asking $149.99 for the new model...

[kgveteran]

This is the cats meow :T for subs.Once you master it, it's a snap.Get it!

[Mazeroth]

Thanks for the heads up, Thomas. Luckily I was in the market for one and got one dirt cheap off ebay tonight. I'll be using it with four of the Shivas I purchased off you. The Shiva IB in my 1500 ft3 basement theater sounds amazing even without EQ, so I can only imagine what this little gem is going to do!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7384773292&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

[JimS]

For the even more cash strapped, a good source to check is local Guitar Center. They had used ones for $55-59. The one I picked up didn't look like it had been though too many tours :P and has worked out great. Thanks Thomas for turning me onto it.

(whoops, just saw Mazeroth's post at even nicer price!!)

[Azeke]

I was actually going to purchase the 1124 tomorrow, but now they have the 2496.

Just a few questions please (I am fairly new to this endeavor so please bear with me):

Does this work well for HT as well as stereo listening?

What will the BFD provide, will the extra filters with the 2496 enhance my listening pleasure?

Should I fork out the extra $$$, it is worth it from a price/performance perspective?

Any further opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Azeke

[ThomasW]

Looking through the owner's manual for the FBQ2496, it has the following

1) 20 stereo filters
2) filter bandwidth from 1/60th octave to 10 octaves wide
3) gain (+15db to - 15dB) in 0.5dB increments, and (-16dB to + 36dB) in 1.0dB increments
4) frequency response is listed as 10Hz to 44kHz, but the lowest hinge point remains 20Hz

[Azeke]

Thanks Thomas, those are pretty impressive specs :T .

Azeke

[ThomasW]

I ordered a FBQ2496 to compare it to my 1124P.

I want to EQ the woofer section of my Arvo prototypes and am curious if there's a sonic difference between these EQ's

[Chris D]

Thomas, I've done the same, so we'll see. one thing I'll be interested about is whether your settings for the 1124 will be the same on the 2496, or whether you'll have to start over with dialing in your subs.

[ThomasW]

Here's a quick update on the FBQ2496. Unlike the 1124P, the FBQ2496 has only 1 bank of filters, 20 filters per stereo channel. The 1124P has 10 banks of filters, each bank has 12 filters per stereo channel. This means unlike the 1124P, the FBQ2496 can't store separate settings for music and HT.

The FBQ2496 is much easier for the noobie to set compared to the 1124P. With the 1124P one must 'fine-tune' a setting (using a chart), to choose a frequency that falls in between the normal 1/3 octave settings. With the FBQ2496 one simply scrolls through the numbers until the desired frequency is reached.

One doesn't need to "Store" settings with the FBQ2496. After the filters are set one just exits the PEQ mode and the setting are automatically saved.

To clear all the settings on the FBQ2496 one only needs to hold down the "Reset" button. For the 1124P one need to basically 'reboot' the unit by holding the 'Filter Select' and 'Store' buttons while powering up the unit.

SQ of the FBQ2496 is better than the 1124P.

So name your poison, if you want the ability to toggle between mutiple different settings each with 12 filters, and a max filter size of 2 octaves go with the 1124P. If you want better SQ, 20 filters per the stereo channels, with finer boost/cut settings (0.5dB), a max filter size of 10 octaves, combined with easier programing go with the FBQ2496.

[Azeke]

FBQ2496 it is then.

Thanks for the review Sir Thomas.

Best regards,

Azeke

[Spearmint]

Thanks for the update Thomas.

1: Is the transformer quiet in the FBQ2496?

2: Are the outputs muted for power on/off?

[Chris D]

Well, I just got my 2496 tonight, and installed it. Going to spend most of the day tomorrow recalibrating the entire theater, including the BFD.

First impressions so far, though, are that the look of the front panel, especially when powered up, is a little more "new tech" looking. LED's are a little sleeker. Before I dial it in, the basic subwoofer level is sounding a little higher. I think I set the output buttons to the same level on the back as I had on the old one. (the +4/-10db switch)

[steve nn]

Mine showed up the first of the week from PE and I started acclimating myself to it yesterday. With my past experience being only the ART351, definitely a different format to learn. It doesn't seem overly complicated once you understand the process although admittedly much more than the ART. The one bit of confusion I'm having is the width of the bandwidth. Can you tell me what the setting would be for instance on 10Hz wide versus 20Hz wide? It's to early for me to fire it up and see if I'm on the right track or not.

Is the transformer quiet in the FBQ2496?

Mine is quiet where other gear has caused problems.

Are the outputs muted for power on/off?

It doesn't appear so.

[---k---]

So name your poison, if you want the ability to toggle between mutiple different settings each with 12 filters, and a max filter size of 2 octaves go with the 1124P. If you want better SQ, 20 filters per the stereo channels, with finer boost/cut settings (0.5dB), a max filter size of 10 octaves, combined with easier programing go with the FBQ2496.

Wow, that is bigger of a change than I realized. I like the ability to have differnt presets. The easier to program would be nice, but REQW takes care of that. I'm no longer sad that I got the 1124P last month.


Can you HEAR the differance in SQ, or is it just in theory at this point?

[steve nn]

The Bandwidth on the FBQ goes from 1 to 10.0 My thinking is for a 10Hz wide cut (or boost) a guy would want to set it at .10?

[ThomasW]

Can you tell me what the setting would be for instance on 10Hz wide versus 20Hz wide?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

Filter widths aren't expressed in Hz. When you choose a frequency (Hz) that's where the cut or boost will be applied.

If you're setting the width of a filter the first few numbers are expressed as fractions of an octave, but you only see the top number (numerator). So....you see 1,2,3,4,5. Those are all over 60, so for example 2/60 = 1/30th of an octave wide.

Once you go above 5, the devices switches to showing the number in numerical decimal form ie, 0.10 = 1/10 octave. When you get to 1.0 octave your next choice is 1.5, after that it switches to full octaves only for 2-10

Can you HEAR the differance in SQ, or is it just in theory at this point?

For grins I put it in the MTM section and gave a listen. It's less grainy than my old BFD. Now we're not talking orders of magnitude, and one certainly won't hear it when it's EQing a sub.

[ThomasW]

The Bandwidth on the FBQ goes from 1 to 10.0 My thinking is for a 10Hz wide cut (or boost) a guy would want to set it at .10?

The width of the filter depends on what you're trying to fix. After you plot a set of measurements you'll be able to decide how wide to make the various filters.

If you just want to experiment use .33, that's 1/3rd octave setting like your old equalizer

The freeware program Room EQ Wizard is great for setting either the 1124P or the FBQ2496. It will automatically generate a beginning (crude) filter set for either device

[steve nn]

If you just want to experiment use .33, that's 1/3rd octave setting like your old equalizer

There you go Thomas...that answers my question in full. I was trying to get a handle on it, but my wife seemed not to appreciate what I was up to at 6:00 AM. :f>

Once you go above 5, the devices switches to showing the number in numerical decimal form ie, 0.10 = 1/10 octave. When you get to 1.0 octave your next choice is 1.5, after that it switches to full octaves only for 2-10

My .10 was a bit narrow I could see by the time the kibosh was put on my little session. Thanks for the direction... ;x(

[steve nn]

If you just want to experiment use .33, that's 1/3rd octave setting like your old equalizer. The freeware program Room EQ Wizard is great for setting either the 1124P or the FBQ2496. It will automatically generate a beginning (crude) filter set for either device

What a unit! Much nicer than what I've been used to that's for sure. The first thing I noticed right off the bat was the SQ is so much better than with the ART.< (generally had it shelved) I had already graphed things out, so I knew what I wanted to do. The FBQ took me all of a half hr to dial in once I figured out the Filters are split. In the end I only needed four filters after I decided to go wider on a couple.

Anyway nice suggestion Thomas and I'll never let this thing go unless Behringer comes out with a unit totally tailored for us bass-heads. Coupling the FBQ with the BASSIS ought to be just the ticket.

[Dennis H]

I'll never let this thing go unless Behringer comes out with a unit totally tailored for us bass-heads. Coupling the FBQ with the BASSIS ought to be just the ticket.

That would be the DEQ2496.

[steve nn]

That would be the DEQ2496.

:rofl: ....still has the 20/20 FR range though. :lol:

[Dennis H]

:rofl: ....still has the 20/20 FR range though. :lol:

Yes and no. 20 Hz is the lowest corner frequency but it's easy to boost the output below there. Setting a high shelving filter at 20 Hz and cutting the output above 20 is the same as boosting below 20. Here's a pic of a cut at 200 so you can see the shape of the curve.

[steve nn]

Interesting!. I basically dropped mine from around 100 or so and then boosted 20. Your method wouldn't require the boost (or as much), if I'm on the right track??

[Dennis H]

Different deal, Steve. The FBQ only does parametric "band" filters. The DEQ and DCX have those and also have shelving filters which will (with a bit of fiddling) duplicate what the Bassis does. That said, you get what you pay for. The DEQ and DCX cost a lot more than the FBQ but they do more.

[steve nn]

I see..I possibly might have been better off$ if I would have known that prior. well!.. it is what it is. :scratchhead: I think I still might like the idea of the BASSIS better though. I hear Behringer is working on a sub specific unit and might be out within the next year?

[ThomasW]

Unfortunately with any of the Behringer processors one can't duplicate the adjustable "Q" that a true LT circuit provides.

With either the 1124P or FBQ2496, one can create a quasi-shelving filter that will provide boost below 20Hz.





Don't hold your breath for Behringer to leap into production on something dreamed up by a few subwoofer fans that post in the internet.

[Dennis H]

Unfortunately with any of the Behringer processors one can't duplicate the adjustable "Q" that a true LT circuit provides.

Sure you can, within limits. A shelving filter plus band filters at the high and low corners does the job nicely. The only caveat is you can't adjust the Q below 20 Hz -- you're stuck with a final response of Q=.7 if the bottom frequency is much below 20 -- but I don't really see that as a big deal. If the bottom F is 20 or above, you can duplicate the LT perfectly.

[bsmith203]

So exactly how do you Boost frequencies below 20hz with the old bdf 1124 unit? 8O

[Dennis H]

So exactly how do you Boost frequencies below 20hz with the old bdf 1124 unit? 8O

You need a DEQ2496 or a DCX2496. Both have shelving filters.

[ThomasW]

So exactly how do you Boost frequencies below 20hz with the old bdf 1124 unit? 8O

It can only be done with a very wide 20Hz filter (2 octaves wide boosts down to 10Hz). Doing that has other implications one should consider. Many subs do fine with a wide filter at 20Hz. If you're running ported or don't have a ton of spare excursion and amplifier power, caveat emptor!

[ThomasW]

Adding to post to bump this back up. The first post in the thread has been updated to indicate the situation with this product.