RS midrange?

[Jonasz]

I don't know if I've had a wet dream or actually read somewhere about a coming RS series mid? Anyone know anything about it? Is it a cone or a dome?

I hope it wasn't a dream... 8O :B

[capslock]

Well, looking at the CSD and distortion plots in HobbyHifi, the RS125 makes an excellent midrange, easily on par with the Excel W12 and certainly much better than the RS150 which has the weaknesses of the RS180 and in addition less excursion capability.

[ekkoville]

I hope it wasn't a dream...

Hope you're not doing laundry right now!! :B

[Mark K]

Well, looking at the CSD and distortion plots in HobbyHifi, the RS125 makes an excellent midrange, easily on par with the Excel W12 and certainly much better than the RS150 which has the weaknesses of the RS180 and in addition less excursion capability.

I spent a little time comparing the RS125 and RS150. The 125 does seem smoother in the midrange than the 150, but it definitely has less excursion and sensitivity. You can get maybe 5dB or so more out of the RS150. So it depends how low you want to go.

I think in an 3 way mtm W(W) etc format, the 125 might be very good. If you like it loud, or need to cross low, the 150 might be better.

[KeithM]

It could very well be in the making. Since they already have subs, woofers, and tweeters, they might as well make it.

[cjd]

There have been confirmations that consideration is being given to making a dome midrange. Just consideration though, not much beyond that.

C

[capslock]

Oh that, it might be a spinoff from the 50 mm beryllium dome development, much as the RS28 is the beryllium Usher with an alu dome.

[Jonasz]

Hope you're not doing laundry right now!! :B

Already done! :B :rofl:

[Jonasz]

My intention was to use the mid between W22 and Crescendo in a WMTMW configuraton. I have a couple of W15CY, would it be a good idea to buy another pair of those or is there any other more dedicated mids to recommend?

[Jim85IROC]

Honestly, I hope that Darren concentrates on the 4 ohm unshielded versions of the RS stuff before he releases any midrange type of stuff. There are a LOT of car audio people (myself included) who are patiently waiting for 4 ohm stuff without the huge bucking magnets on the back.

[jdybnis]

Did you see the debucking guide on diymobileaudio.com?

[Jim85IROC]

Yes, but I also see a lot of people ruining the drivers, plus if I plan to sell these, even in small quantities, I need a much better solution.

[jdybnis]

Personally I'd love to see a scaled up version of the RS28a. Something like the Jordan JX53 but with no cone breakups in the audio band. A 40mm dome with enough excursion to cross over <500Hz would be perfect. I want to try using something like that to about 13k togeather with a rear firing supertweeter for ambiance. I haven't found a small driver that can cross low enough to make it interesting.

[Jonasz]

I guess it's on it's way... http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/cata...pec06.indd.pdf

[cjd]

Yes, but no 3/4 dome to go with it.

:B

C

[JonMarsh]

Hmmm, maybe pretty cool! Lots more efficient than the MB Quart 2" dome mid I used to use; will be very interesting to get hands on one of these and put it through the tests. Might be a viable alternative for midrange in a WMTW center channel. Depends on how low it will really play clean, and how high before the ETC plots look screwey. Sweet!

Now, if only three way crossovers didn't wind up having so many parts and such a price tag....

The MB Quart I used to use with Dual Scanspeak Kevlars, two MB quarts, and an MB quart (modified) 1" titanium tweeter. Because of the efficiency issues, it was an WMTMW configuration. Sort of like a mini- Dunlavey. Crossovers at 800 Hz and 3.2 kHz.

~Jon

[cjd]

Jon, you're thinking along the same lines I'm thinking! The sensitivity is what caught my eye.

In fact, I'm eyeing this for use all around in my HT - I have to keep the cabinets narrow (6.5" wide at the baffle above ~24" up from the floor or it won't fit between my screen and the wall on that side). Room below that, tons of room for a CC.

I also have some vague hope that it actually has good response through enough of the indicated range that we can play with (brace yourself here) lower order crossover slopes! That means, yes, fewer components, lower cost!

Pair of RS225's, one of these, and a tweeter... Should allow a 90-92dB sensitive speaker when placed near-boundary (as is so often the case in a HT - certainly will be in mine). May have to consider non-Dayton tweeters though. A couple dB gentle roll-off on the top may not be bad either though, given that so many soundtracks are recorded hot to overcome being played through the screen.

I'm just not sure how to approach surrounds yet. But that's where a nice 3/4 tweeter might allow nice wide dispersion.

C

[JonMarsh]

Jon, you're thinking along the same lines I'm thinking! The sensitivity is what caught my eye.


I also have some vague hope that it actually has good response through enough of the indicated range that we can play with (brace yourself here) lower order crossover slopes! That means, yes, fewer components, lower cost!

Pair of RS225's, one of these, and a tweeter... Should allow a 90-92dB sensitive speaker when placed near-boundary (as is so often the case in a HT - certainly will be in mine). May have to consider non-Dayton tweeters though. A couple dB gentle roll-off on the top may not be bad either though, given that so many soundtracks are recorded hot to overcome being played through the screen.

I'm just not sure how to approach surrounds yet. But that's where a nice 3/4 tweeter might allow nice wide dispersion.

C

Some pretty similar ideas, Chris. With the MB Quart Mids, which were only 86 dB sensitivity, I used 4th order LR targets in one set, which usually worked out to 3rd order electrical high pass, 4th order low pass. But then the second set was done with 3rd order, which in an MTM makes for better vertical dispersion in the crossover lobe. There the target was also a 90 dB sensitivity speaker fairly close to the boundary.

My hope would be that these drivers have non-linear and linear distoriton on a par with the other RS products, including the dome tweeter. My feeling is the H1212 may be the part of choice to work with them. We'll see. But ThomasW and I have a bunch of TC120dx2's, and they's probably be pretty nice, too, in spite of there size. 93 dB sensitivity.

I keep hearing from Eric and a few others about a new wide surround 3/4" aluminum/Magnesium dome - the 22TAF/G - H1283




It's available now at Madisound (months ago when I was checking it wasn't), so in the hopes that the motor linearity is similar to the H1212, I'll have to get some in and test. Fs is about 1200 Hz, and FR looks pretty good from 1400 to 20 kHz, resonant peak in the 30-35 kHz area, but only about 5-6 dB. Inductive rise is remarkably well controlled.



H1283 Data Sheet at Madisound


Should be worth checking out... might even handle a high slope crossover in the 1600-1800 Hz area, depending on how non-linear distortion looks at 1500 Hz. Another to-do list for Praxis.

~Jon

[cjd]

That Seas tweeter does look promising, though I'd love to see some good distortion tests and whatnot. The H1212 is not on my list of options - I just don't want to deal with the big peak it has, and every time I've heard it my ears were unhappy (including at lower volumes).

Not sure I like the price, but the OW1 may be a contender too. I seem to recall you don't like that tweeter though?

How about the XT19?

Or even those $5 Neo tweeters Dayton offers? (someone else suggested those really)

So many questions, so few answers at this point.

C

[JonMarsh]

I don't really have a strong opinion about the OW1- did one design with it for a friend. MarkK doesn't have all that high an opinion of it, due to average distortion performance- not first tier.

The XT19 doesn't hold up too well in nonlinear distortion. Would need a high crossover or a waveguide like AJ uses.

I'm very curiouis to see how the H1283 works, for the CT or three way application. Would still want to keep the crossover point as low as possible due to driver spacing issues.



I last used 3/4" tweeter back in the 80's; I ended up not really caring for that Seas model very much.

~Jon

[cjd]

Would still want to keep the crossover point as low as possible due to driver spacing issues.

What, you too chicken to trim the driver faceplates?

Yeesh.



Looking at that RS mid has already suggested it might get such treatment from me. I'd just like to get 2500 or 2800Hz crossover perhaps. Not really sure why.

C

[Mark K]

I don't really have a strong opinion about the OW1- did one design with it for a friend. MarkK doesn't have all that high an opinion of it, due to average distortion performance- not first tier.

did I say that... 8O

The ow1 is pretty nice is some respects, and probably worth a look if you're looking for high dispersion and can cross high. I mean, this is one of the smoothest widest dispersion tweeters I've ever tested. Just seems to have only an average motor and low end distortion.

And, since no one really knows how much dispersion is "the right" dispersion, it's personal choice. It's Dennis Murphy's favorite, I think.

Marvin had an interesting link. Looks like it's a Peerless India rebadged. I don't know what that means...I have not done any testing on this. Darren hasn't mentioned it...

what really looks good is the new scan speak. I've been thinking of getting on my hands and knees and begging Ken Kantor for a sample to test. I wouldn't mind paying for a true winner...and I'm sure it's expensivvvvvvvvvvvvvvve.

[AJINFLA]

Zaph has tested the SEAS 22mm : http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/
One day I'll be able to afford my favorite (can't justify the cost right now )

http://www.tymphany.com/scanspeak/data/d2904_710000a.htm

Then we'll see if it's as good as I think.

Cheers,

AJ

[JonMarsh]

did I say that... 8O

The ow1 is pretty nice is some respects, and probably worth a look if you're looking for high dispersion and can cross high. I mean, this is one of the smoothest widest dispersion tweeters I've ever tested. Just seems to have only an average motor and low end distortion.

And, since no one really knows how much dispersion is "the right" dispersion, it's personal choice. It's Dennis Murphy's favorite, I think.

Marvin had an interesting link. Looks like it's a Peerless India rebadged. I don't know what that means...I have not done any testing on this. Darren hasn't mentioned it...

what really looks good is the new scan speak. I've been thinking of getting on my hands and knees and begging Ken Kantor for a sample to test. I wouldn't mind paying for a true winner...and I'm sure it's expensivvvvvvvvvvvvvvve.

Dennis is sweet on the OW1- for a long time. They are very flat in FR, and nice off axis.

There's something schizo about a bunch of guys that are waxing eloquently over the merits of sub $30 and multi-megabuck tweeters like (I presume) the D2904/710000.... (am I correct in assuming THAT's the one you're refering to?) Not the big buck ring radiators...

Or is there something else coming out I'm not even aware of yet... ?

Actually, I think the D3004/66000 has some of the nicer looking plots, and it does have an aluminum faceplate.

[TacoD]

I think the 66000 is the winner, with it's Seas Millenium like magnet structure. I want to try one of those. I think the price will be around 250 - 300 euro a piece.

Those 7xxxx are not my cup of tea. I used the 70000, dispersion is a bit limited, and it has some sibilance on top, tried different x-overs from 2000 Hz - 4000 Hz. Even at 4kHz its a bitch to filter ...

My opinion is that if your system has enough resolution, it pays of to invest in a better tweeter. For some reason those cheaper units are always lacking in resolution.

[Feyz]

Marvin had an interesting link. Looks like it's a Peerless India rebadged. I don't know what that means...

Just thought this may be interesting:

http://www.microlab.com.cn/en/about%20%20us/about%20larsen.htm

[Mark K]

I was referring to the 6600

http://www.tymphany.com/pr/ScanSpeakTweeterFINAL9-28-6.pdf

mmmmmmm.

[JonMarsh]

Hmmmm, that makes sense. Do you (or anyone?) have any idea of planned availability and price? The off axis is really very good for that size dome, and it's certainly smooth and wideband. Is it thought to be in the same price range as the 7100-00, or more? Or less?

At that price range, I'd also be tempted by the C24-6. Seems to have very low distortion down to 1 kHz. Both 1 watt and 5 watt curves look pretty nice- I'd wonder how it would test with Multi-tone IM.

Have to see if Santa has anything in the sack for me- our incentives have been delayed by 6-8 weeks.

~Jon