Crossover upgrades

[popbumper]

All:

New to the forum (obviously), I wanted to ask how many of you have successfully tried and been pleased with stock crossover upgrades? By this, I mean "removing the factory crossover from a speaker, and replacing the components (caps in particular) with better quality audiophile grade components". Moreso, how about taking it a step further, and creating a NEW but IDENTICAL network (meaning, using exact same component values) but of better quality?

Impressions/opinions on this? I have more to say, but want to hear some feedback first. If I am not mistaken, this can sometimes be considered one of those "can-of-worms" topics.

Thanks!

Chris

[Bent]

Actually I'm interested in this too. I understand that although my Paradigm Mini's are pretty good value, I do wonder what a crossover upgrade would get me. This might be a good prerequisite to doing a full set of 7 DIY speakers.

[ThomasW]

If the stock XO's are of poor quality, then the judicious use of upgrades make sense, if the speaker itself is of reasonable quality. HOWEVER, the rest of the components in the signal path (amps/pre-amps/sources/IC's/speakerwire/etc.) need to be of sufficient quality so that the upgrade will be audible.

Given how expensive high-end caps are, it's easy to have a single cap that costs more than the tweeter or woofer. That seems like a poor investment.

So I suggest this as a last resort upgrade, after all other options have been exhausted

[Bent]

Thanks Thomas, good advice.

[Hank]

Spot on, Thomas. My...er...2nd cousin succumbed to the siren song of the boutique capacitor, bought a couple, soldered them in place and then...couldn't hear any difference ops:

[ThomasW]

I should add that per my name, I truly am a "Doubting Thomas".

But.......

Jon bought some of the AudioCaps from PE for his Arvo project and liked what he heard. So I thought I'd give them a try as quasi-bypass caps. This means instead of using a really small value, I bought a value equal to 1/2 that needed for the entire cap.

When Jon was in Denver before Thanksgiving, I sat while he soldered them into the tweeter section of my Arvo's. There was a noticable improvement in the sound quality from the tweeters. Note that the speakers are triamped, and being driven by approx $8500+ worth of 2 channel electronics, and they contain the $200 SS9800 tweeter.

So yes XO upgrades are audible but .......... :wink:

[popbumper]

Upgrades DO make a difference

Please let me continue in this discussion - I was glad to hear both interest AND doubt. My home theater surround system employs consists of seven KLIPSCH speakers; before anyone yells “foul”, let me saythat I very much like the sound of Klipsch, and will not fault anyone else for disliking them.

After reading much discussion about the merits of crossover upgrades (and not believing that putting in what are sometimes called “boutique”
components), I decided to go ahead and spend the money to do the upgrades – myself, as an investigative tool.
Living in the printed circuit board world as a daily job, I decided one better – to DESIGN crossover boards that would allow me to use better components, as well as preserve the integrity of the original networks should I decide to switch back.

As far as original networks – anyone who uses Klipsch speakers would no doubt agree that they are satisfied with the “factory” sound. Why bother? Well, this is all fine and dandy – until you pull the stock networks and take a look at them. Like most manufacturers, Klipsch concentrated on the DRIVERS and enclosure, NOT the crossover. The most obvious “malady” is the choice of cheap grade “motor capacitors”, which WORK, but….well, I’ll tell you soon.

OK, figuring all of this out took about two months of work. I sat down and decided on a “UNIVERSAL” network – one which would employ TWO 3” x 5” boards set up in a STACK; two IDENTICAL but configurable boards. Why? Space consideration, and the ability to not only choose a variety of componentsizes, but to make it so that a quick setup of jumpers would allow me to configure one board for tweeter and woofer circuits, the other for midrange, and a SINGLE board if I was looking for a simple network. Confused yet? There’s more – these boards were made to work in no less than TEN different Klipsch speaker models, and will undoubtedly work in many, many other speakers.

I bought components from Madisound, Auricap, Dayton, Solen, and Mills, as examples. I drew the whole thing out in AutoCAD, then sat down with a board designer, and punched out prototypes. The protos worked GREAT. But wait – what about the sound?

I had my doubts. I had read many a number of treatises both pro and con. For my system, I chose to upgrade a pair of Forte’s, and an Academy center channel. All good speakers, I expected little change. WRONG. h:

The quality of my front soundstage is so far improved, I literally (don’t mean to be dramatic, but…) got tears in my eyes listening to DVD soundtracks I had heard MANY times. FIRST impression was one of absolute quiet – rather than listening (an analogy) to a tape with no noise reduction, suddenly I have “hiss-free” tape, where my background noise floor has dropped to ZERO. Now folks, this is not something you will even NOTICE UNTIL you can compare!! The crispness and detail of my mids and highs (on a HORN system nonetheless) are INCREDIBLE: I used to have to turn up my center channel about 3dB to hear it – now it is ALL THERE, CLEAR!! My bass is nice and tight, never muddy.

Personally, this doubter can never be told that there is no merit in upgrading; it is not inexpensive, but neither am I purchasing and using the elite "hundred dollar and up" capacitors I have seen for sale. $20 for a cap might seem like a lot to some people, but when you get rid of the crud and hear ONLY the
music, the benefit far outweighs the cost.

Well, I was going to attach a pic (1.48MB), but the system only accepts up to 100K. For those interested, let me know, I'll be happy to send you a pic. If anyone is interested in talking more about these crossovers, I’d be happy to discuss.

Thanks for letting me “rant”. :lol:

Chris
Dallas, TX

[Patt]

Hi Chris,

Back in 92' or whenever I bought a pair of Klipsch 4.2's and they have been powered by a 45 watt Denon reciever all this time. They excelled at low volume listening and it is amazing the detail "instruments" that can be heard.

A week or so ago I contacted a guy, Dean G. over at the Klipsch Forum about a possible crossover upgrade. He said sure but be has never done a 4.2 before, usually just the Klipschorns and larger models I suppose.

I just finished installing them and will set them up tomorrow and give them a trial run. Stock they look very simple but what he sent me is at least twice the size and looks very impressive. ( I really know nothing about electrical components)

As old as they are I figured what the heck, anything to make an improvement and my curiosity about tubes is growing, which from what I gather work quite well with Klipsch.

[popbumper]

Pat:

Yes, Dean has done a number of network mods. I wanted to eliminate the "clumsiness" of modifying existing networks, which is why I developed the boards. Indeed, these components are HUGE compared to stock units. I will be curious to hear your impression of the sonic change.

Chris