Hi-Vi Surrounds

[Andrew Pratt]

Jon/Thomas what would it take to clone these Swan R3 BC to use as surrounds/sides in our HT's? I'd prefer to use the Vifa tweeter to match the mains and likely the 5" or 6" driver. I don't need them to be the be all and end all as far as sound quality goes as they're just surrounds (meaning the XO's would have to reasonable cost wise).

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[ThomasW]

It's basically the MTM with an additional tweeter. So the XO cost wouldn't change much.

Unfortunately the 6" Hi-Vi's don't have much excursion, it's almost 1/2 that of the 8".

Might be better to wait until Jon's done playing with the new RS series from PE. Their smaller cones still have pretty good Xmax

[Andrew Pratt]

Unfortunately the 6" Hi-Vi's don't have much excursion, it's almost 1/2 that of the 8".

Is that really that big a problem though for surrounds that would be set to small?

[ThomasW]

It depends on how loud you play them.

We don't have a crossover designed for the M6 and probably won't design one given it's low Xmax. It's a driver we looked at years ago and decided it Xmax was to limiting for anything we were interested in.

The M6 is 6-7/8" dia and the M8 is 8-1/2" dia. Given the relatively small difference in size and cost between the two drivers, might as well just use the M8.

There wouldn't be a big sonic signature difference between the M6 and the new RS drivers from PE. They both have alu cones. There will be a XO designed for the smaller RS series PE drivers.

[JonMarsh]

Dual RS180's would probably be a better bet, Andrew. Cost is very low, considering the low non-linear distortion and energy storage.

ANY metal cone driver needs a fairly sophisticated crossover- don't expect to save money there, unfortunately.

An alternative I'm looking at to pair with the RS180 for lower cost applications is the LPG26T, which is about $39 from Madisound. It's a 1" titanium dome tweeter.

If you want to go with dual Vifa tweeters, they'll have to be wired in series, because they're 4" (really, more like 3.5 ohm!), which will require a redesigned crossover. Not a biggie to do.

BTW, M6a (the case frame version) are available from Madisound, if you decide to go that way. They're about $45 each, i.e., 50% more than the RS180.

If you want to go with a simpler crossover, better be thinking in terms of something like the HiVi W6 driver, (~$44), or better yet, the Peerless 6-1/2" HDS driver. They're about $75, but quite clean to beyond 3 kHz, and also very low non-linear distortion.

Hard to beat those Dayton RS's, though....

~Jon

[Andrew Pratt]

Hmm if we have to go with a different tweeter and different drivers I'm not sure how much I'd gain towards a more seemless sounding speaker with the M8'as I'm running now. I guess I'll wait and see how your work goes with the Rs180's and the MTM's before getting too serious about any plans to build anything. The paradigm's I'm running now are doing fine so there's no hurry.

[Evil Twin]

That seems reasonable, Andrew.


I can understand your desire to keep as similar response character as possible across your system. The M6a, BTW, seems to have a bit more Xmax than the M6n available from PE- 4.6 mm vs 3 mm. But the 7" RS180's are 6 mm. And they look cool, too, in their own way. After all, black is back.... :B




I do like the cosmetics on those HiVi surrounds, but duplicating them would be a pretty serious woodworking project for DIY. That's why the new dedicated HT setup will use the PE cabinets- perhaps piano black?


My first focus is on a high quality CT design that can double as an MTM main (with sub) using a relatively low crossover frequency (like the M8's) with the baby SS neodymium tweeter. I hope to be setup to measure them in two weeks (drivers in cabinets), and will do the modeling and development, especially polar response, in LspCAD6. I've got my fingers crossed on these; keep in mind I'm looking for really excellent performance at moderate cost, not moderately good performance at low cost. The effort to build one or their other is so similar, it seems a shame to aim low.

Consider your options carefully....