Tumult Project

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  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    Tumult Project

    I've been meaning to start a thread on my latest subwoofer project but up until tonight I hadn't actually stopped to take any photo's.

    The subwoofer is a sealed 2.5 cubic foot box using the Adire Tumult driver. The walls are all MDF 1.5" thick (double 3/4") and the outside dimensions ended up being approx. 18" * 18" * 24.5" with 3" legs and a bottom base plate. As you can see from the photo's below I had some velveteen material left over from a previous project that never saw the light of day (masks for my projection screen) so I've used that to wrap around the sides. We cut out a 3/4" space on the corners so that the oak quarter round trim fits in flush and gives me a nice tidy place to end the seam for the cloth. The base plate, legs and bottom are all painted black and the top will end up being either all oak or a black MDF panel with oak accents around the edges.

    So far all I've managed to do is seal in the driver and run some sine waves though it just to check for leaks etc and from those early tests it seems like a solid little sub. I'll post some more photo's once the sides, top and base plate are installed for those that would like to see the finished product.

    One thing that I did that I regret was recessing the driver on the bottom. In hind sight given that its mounted on the bottom where no one will see it I should have left it mounted on the surface. Its not really a problem but given that the Tumult weighs over 60 lbs its a little difficult to get the beast out once you've dropped it into the hole for a test fit :B It also got worse when I put the legs on as they're butted right up against the hole so dropping the driver it for the final fit was a fun stop and start experience as the rubber surround on the driver kept riding up and not sitting flush on the bottom...I really should have made it larger then I did but its already much wider then what the cut out states on the Adire website which I can only assume is for the driver only and not the rubber surround (which was a PITA to fix after the initial hole as routed out)

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  • robertwb70
    Member
    • Oct 2003
    • 59

    #2
    yep it can be fun getting a big driver out of a hole like that-so far the subs I've built have all had plate amps so I had a big hole I could reach in to push the driver out from the back-still not easy with a big driver but better...
    =+=+=+=+=+=+=
    "The appreciation of music is subjective.The reproduction of music isn't."-Bill Dudleston

    Comment

    • ThomasW
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 10934

      #3
      Looking good Andrew ....... :T

      Have you considered using a bottom plate like those used on tube subs. That will prevent 'walking' during higher output levels.

      Also you might want to remove those clamps, they'll tend to 'ring' when you really crank up the sub ... :wink:

      IB subwoofer FAQ page


      "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

      Comment

      • Andrew Pratt
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 16507

        #4
        Thomas there is a bottom plate ready to go on once I finish painting it. This is basically a square sonosub.

        Comment

        • Bing Fung
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Aug 2000
          • 6521

          #5
          Nice to see it coming along Andrew :T
          Bing

          Comment

          • Spearmint
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2004
            • 333

            #6
            Wow very nice Andrew...

            What amp are you going to use for the Tumult?
            Richard

            "Sometimes it is easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission... "

            Comment

            • Spearmint
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2004
              • 333

              #7
              Originally posted by ThomasW
              Also you might want to remove those clamps, they'll tend to 'ring' when you really crank up the sub ... :wink:
              Thomas, I think they are the latest fad... "External bracing" bit like the kids that wear there underwear on the outside of their clothes :E
              Richard

              "Sometimes it is easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission... "

              Comment

              • Kevin P
                Member
                • Aug 2000
                • 10808

                #8
                Nice little(?) sub ya got goin' there Andrew. :T Is it going to be your main sub for HT or is it going to be for music duties (I'm thinking this because of the sealed design).

                What are you driving it with?

                Comment

                • Andrew Pratt
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 16507

                  #9
                  It will be the only sub in the media room so it'll be a do it all type unit. I often run my mains full range for music but we'll see how seamlessly I can get the tumult to integrate with the M8a's. As for power i'll be using a pro amp...either my Samson S1000 or a QSC I'm trying to trade for at the moment.

                  Comment

                  • Andrew Pratt
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 16507

                    #10
                    Here's the latest pics. The top isn't glued in place yet and the bottom base plate is waiting to be painted but I'm very close now

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                    Comment

                    • Jerry Pease
                      Member
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 37

                      #11
                      nice job Andrew, I am looking forward in reading your review
                      JP

                      Comment

                      • Andrew Pratt
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 16507

                        #12
                        Thanks Jerry

                        Comment

                        • Spearmint
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2004
                          • 333

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Andrew Pratt
                          It will be the only sub in the media room so it'll be a do it all type unit. I often run my mains full range for music but we'll see how seamlessly I can get the tumult to integrate with the M8a's. As for power i'll be using a pro amp...either my Samson S1000 or a QSC I'm trying to trade for at the moment.
                          It will be great to hear your impressions of the sub with these amps. I was amazed at how different a sub can sound just by changing amp.
                          Richard

                          "Sometimes it is easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission... "

                          Comment

                          • Bing Fung
                            Ultra Senior Member
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 6521

                            #14
                            Looking Good Andrew, Great Job :T
                            Bing

                            Comment

                            • Andrew Pratt
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 16507

                              #15
                              Thanks Bing. I got a nice coat of polyurathane on the top yesterday and this morning so it'll be ready to be glued in place tonight when I get home. The base plate needs a little more sanding but I ran out of course sandpaper so I'll try and get that finished tonight and give it a couple of coats of paint. I'll be trading my power amp tonight with Jeremy so I'll have a QSC that I'll bridge to give me 830 watts of power for it :yesnod: That's not nearly as much as it'll take but it will give me the piece of mind knowing that I'd be very hard pressed to damage it no matter how hard I tried

                              Comment

                              • Gordon Moore
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Feb 2002
                                • 3188

                                #16
                                Wow, Andrew, you've outdone yourself this time. I'm pleased to have played a small (very small) part in that sub. Really classy finish :T :T :T (I wish I had the time to go downstairs that day you offered to show me where you were at )
                                Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

                                Comment

                                • GregoriusM
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • Oct 2000
                                  • 2755

                                  #17
                                  Awesome, Andrew! :T

                                  Not only very nice looking, but it should really kick butt. I've always liked sealed subs over ported subs. You just really need the watts to make them do what you want them to. 800 watts should get that cone moving! 8O
                                  .
                                  Gregor

                                  Comment

                                  • Andrew Pratt
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 16507

                                    #18
                                    Not only very nice looking, but it should really kick butt
                                    We'll soon find out

                                    Comment

                                    • Andrew Pratt
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Aug 2000
                                      • 16507

                                      #19
                                      I managed to play with the new sub a little last night which proved to be very interesting. I finally got to try different positions around the room and the results were about what I expected. What I did was place the sub at the sweet spot and then walked (crawled actually) around the room watching the SPL meter. I'd always guessed that the original location of the IB sub was in a hole but it turned out to be the worst spot in the whole room. Compared to the opposite corner its -12dB lower :E That helps explain a lot of the issues I was having with the IB and was the main reason for trying this new project. The rest of the room was typically plus or minus 2-4 dB but the opposit corner to the old IB (i.e. rear right hand corner facing the back wall) proved to give me the strongest response of any logical position it could sit in. The other rear corner was ok as well...esp near the ceiling but that's just not going to work Anyway I haven't had time yet to run some sweeps to see if that position is the flatest as it might just be a big peak that I'm seeing on the SPL meter.

                                      One things for sure...that QSC amp is LOUD so I'm glad its hidden away in the other room and not in my gear rack :M

                                      Comment

                                      • Shane Martin
                                        Super Senior Member
                                        • Apr 2001
                                        • 2852

                                        #20
                                        That's not nearly as much as it'll take but it will give me the piece of mind knowing that I'd be very hard pressed to damage it no matter how hard I tried
                                        That is what Bing is for!
                                        :frypan:

                                        Neat looking sub. I'd be really curiuos what kind of output you are getting.

                                        Comment

                                        • Andrew Pratt
                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                          • Aug 2000
                                          • 16507

                                          #21
                                          I'd be really curiuos what kind of output you are getting.
                                          You and me both

                                          Comment

                                          • Bing Fung
                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                            • Aug 2000
                                            • 6521

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Shane Martin
                                            That is what Bing is for!
                                            :frypan:
                                            Good one Shane
                                            Bing

                                            Comment

                                            • Andrew Pratt
                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                              • Aug 2000
                                              • 16507

                                              #23
                                              Here's some pics of the beast now that its 98 percent done.

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                                              Comment

                                              • Spearmint
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Sep 2004
                                                • 333

                                                #24
                                                Fantastic job Andrew... well done.

                                                Now how does it sound and have you done any in-room response measurements yet?
                                                Richard

                                                "Sometimes it is easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission... "

                                                Comment

                                                • Andrew Pratt
                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                  • 16507

                                                  #25
                                                  I did one very quick sweep to plot the base line for the BFD EQ and its interesting as there's a fairly significant hump around 40 hz at the moment that I'll have to knock down...but no major nulls which will make it easier then the previous IB corner

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Andrew Pratt
                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                    • 16507

                                                    #26
                                                    I spent a little time this afternoon calibrating the sub with the BFD and WOW its very impressive now. This is exactly the sound and impact I was looking for when I started this project so its worked out exceptionally well. I might still tinker with the curve a bit but for the most part I'm pretty happy with it.

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                                                    Comment

                                                    • CJ Paul
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Oct 2004
                                                      • 143

                                                      #27
                                                      That's a pretty nice little house curve there. Do you think amplitude rises too fast as frequency falls, or is that about right?

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Andrew Pratt
                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                        • 16507

                                                        #28
                                                        CJ from what I've seen posted on house curves before the basic idea is to make tones at 30, 56 and 100 all sound about the same volume. They'll obviously measure differently but that's not that important since thats a mic and not your ears. Mine might be a tad hot for 2 channel at the moment but I can back that off indepandant of the HT modes with my processor if I want to. I've listened to a few of my typical bass testing songs and its great for most and a little hot on others...esp. Holly Cole but her bass tracks tend to be overly exaggerated anyway. One thing that I found interesting was that the dip at the cross over was almost all phase. As soon as I inverted the plug at the sub that hole almost dissapeared and even more interesting the dip at 22 also came up a bit.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Jerry Pease
                                                          Member
                                                          • Aug 2000
                                                          • 37

                                                          #29
                                                          that curve is just the sub right? Do you intend to integrate your LCR?
                                                          JP

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Andrew Pratt
                                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                            • 16507

                                                            #30
                                                            No that's the mains and sub all in one so I've tried to optimize the cross over region as well (80 hz)

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Andrew Pratt
                                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                                              • Aug 2000
                                                              • 16507

                                                              #31
                                                              Have you considered using a bottom plate like those used on tube subs. That will prevent 'walking' during higher output levels
                                                              Funny you should mention the base plate thomas...when I was testing it this weekend it was moving quite a bit even with the base plate installed. You'd think that something that weighs what it does wouldn't move too much but its a walking machine when it really gets going. Granted that was at a level I'll likely not go to very often but it was fun to watch it dance

                                                              Comment

                                                              • GRCRYSTYK
                                                                Junior Member
                                                                • Mar 2004
                                                                • 9

                                                                #32
                                                                Andrew,..
                                                                just stopped in to have alook at the beast,...I may have to build one of these things,...If it stomps the dual Tempests,and is that small,...It could very well take over the duties of my 7.5 foot tall Sonosub,....
                                                                Do you have it spiked on the bottom of the plate. I have always noticed dramatic improvements when spiking subs, even cheap ones.

                                                                GRCRY,...>>>--->

                                                                Comment

                                                                • awm
                                                                  Member
                                                                  • Feb 2004
                                                                  • 40

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Cabinet bracing and stuffing?

                                                                  Hey, Andrew -- nice box! I'm gonna do something quite similar for my JBL 1500. So, I was wondering if you braced and stuffed it and how much of each?

                                                                  Thanks,
                                                                  Andy

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Andrew Pratt
                                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                                    • 16507

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Its not currenty spiked but I might do that as it tends to walk if I crank it

                                                                    Andy its both braced and stuffed. The bracing runs down the middle from the front to the back. The side's are braced as well to that centre brace as is the top so its a very inert box. Stuffing was more a "I think that's about right" kind of thing though the amount of stuffing can have a pronounced impact on the sound...so far though I'm very much impressed so I've got no desire to try and pull out the driver to adjust the stuffing rate

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • awm
                                                                      Member
                                                                      • Feb 2004
                                                                      • 40

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Cool -- thanks very much. I plan to create a plywood "matrix" on the inside and then stuff it with about 3.5 lbs. of Miraflex for 1.75/ft3. I think it was Tom Nousaine who put out some cool stuff re box volume and stuffing density. I think this should do it.

                                                                      If it turns out well, I'll post some pics. Otherwise, i'll reamain hidden in the darkness. :B

                                                                      Andy

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Andrew Pratt
                                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                                        • 16507

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Yup its typically inthe neighbourhood of 1-2 lbs per cubic foot.

                                                                        Comment

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