Media storage and playback

[Mfreyhol]

I'm fairly computer illiterate, but I have an xbox, ps3, and a nice 1080p projector with a 102" screen. I want to store DVD and blue Ray movies digitally, access them on my screen, and play them reliably without any loss of picture or audio quality. Is this possible? If so, what equipment do I need in addition to what I already have? I'm assuming I'll need some kind of storage unit with multiple tb, but what other hardware and software will I need to pull this off? Remember, I'm an idiot at this stuff!

[Chris D]

Welcome! I think I know you... I'm at CEDIA right now, and it seems like everybody is showing content servers. Although I'm not into servers myself right now, and therefore I haven't hunted them down to really learn about which models do what and costs, preliminarily it seems to me like this could be pretty expensive, if you're REALLY set on both (1) reliability and (2) zero loss of picture or audio quality.

Tell you what, man... I think I have some time Sunday to go back through the CEDIA showroom floor, and I'll try to pay attention to some. In the meantime, Google "Escient Fireball" and see what you can learn.

[aud19]

If you want a consumer level path like the Fireball et al Chris mentioned, it doesn't come cheap.

If you're ok with doing a bit of setup yourself and have a computer to rip the movies with you can get away with a relatively inexpensive NAS (Network Attached Storage) with UPnP Media Server capabilities like theQNAP TS-209 II Pro and stream your media over your network to your PS3 or 360.

[Mfreyhol]

Hey Chris! I hope you're having fun. Where's the conference?

What kind of quality does the qnap produce? Is it difficult to digitally save the content from a DVD or Blue Ray with that equipment?

I truly believe this technology will be mainstream and completely user friendly within 5 years. In fact, I'm surprised it's not easier to find info on it already. Might be a business opportunity Chris!

[aud19]

The Qnap is just a storage device with hard drives and would output the files over a standard network cable as 1's and 0's so quality will be more dependent on the PS3/Xbox's ability to decode and output the video files.

Otherwise just Google "ripping DVD's" for information on the many different software available. Though DVDFab HD Decrypter is probably the best program (IMO) for ripping files to use on an XBOX/PS3. Also might want to Google what the best quality format is for you to save the files as for use on the PS3/XBOX etc

[aud19]

Here's another quick Google I just did with lot's of info:

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=best+dvd+ripper+for+ps3&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=1&oq=best+dvd+ripper+for+P&fp=b89dc01650a86922

[Mfreyhol]

So does the xbox or ps3 do the ripping or do you need to rip with a normal computer and store on the qnap?

I just talked to my buddy about his setup. He says he can burn his DVDs to an iso file and play them through his pc to his tv with no loss of quality. Does that make sense to you guys?

[Chris D]

I think this is true about DVD's, which have a lot more compression than BD. Don't know about BD.

Also take a look at Kaleidescape.

[aud19]

So does the xbox or ps3 do the ripping or do you need to rip with a normal computer and store on the qnap?

I just talked to my buddy about his setup. He says he can burn his DVDs to an iso file and play them through his pc to his tv with no loss of quality. Does that make sense to you guys?

I think you have to do it from a computer to the QNAP. Don't have either game system so I can't say for sure but I wouldn't imagine they'd allow you to rip as it requires specific software.

As for the second option, yeah that's what I'm about to start doing next week (I won't be ripping to .iso files though, just straight .vob files) but then you'll need another computer by your TV in that scenario. You've already got the game systems (which are basically like very specialized computers) by your TV that are fully capable of streaming the media already. In that scenario you'll still need HD storage for the movies anyway. You can do that in that PC but then you're going to have a noisier, more power hungry system that you'll have to turn on to view any of your media. (More HD's = more noise, more heat, which requires more cooling, which creates even more noise...)

A NAS (like the QNAP) is nice because they require very low power to run and you can access that media from anywhere in your house, wired or wireless, at any time without having to turn on a big, noisy, power-hungry file server/PC. So you could be watching a movie via your PS3 in your TV room, get sleepy and go finish watching it on your laptop in bed for example.

[Mfreyhol]

Kaleidescape sounds exactly like what I was imagining. Until I heard the price tag... Starts at $8000! Great system but seems like an awful lot for a computer with ripping software and a player. Plus it doesn't do Blue Ray yet (it's coming soon though) and that capability will require another hardware purchase.

If I use a pc with a high end video and audio card along with tons of memory, I can get software to rip my movies to tif and watch without loss of quality. I still need to research ripping blue rays though. But the point is that it looks like I can build a system for a fraction of what they're asking for at kaleidescape.

The problem is that I don't know what I'm missing. It would be nice to talk to more people that have done this sort of thing. There mist be a reason the off the shelf systems are so pricy. It seems like I'm missing something.

Another thought... Can you add an external hard drive to a ps3? Can you then create a virtual drive on the ps3 that would allow you to play ripped movies?

[Hdale85]

TIFF is a still image format so not likely that you'll be able to rip a Blu-ray to that format. I use the x264 codec which is just the open source version of h.264. I don't notice any loss in quality and the video sizes are ~1/2 the size of a typical Blu-ray. Of course that's with no extra features or 10 audio tracks. Ripping blu-ray's isn't the easiest thing though.

[aud19]

The problem is that I don't know what I'm missing. It would be nice to talk to more people that have done this sort of thing. There mist be a reason the off the shelf systems are so pricy. It seems like I'm missing something.

Plug and play, little system upkeep, easy to use GUI. A stand alone computer/server is a lot more work to set up and maintain and will probably have a lower WAF. I still think simply using your PS3/XBOX would be the best/easiest solution for what you're asking.

[Hdale85]

Well I have XBMC setup to auto load and everything, my wife doesn't have much issue using it but when it comes to ripping movies and what not it's something I've got to do. As long as everything is there in the system already though she uses it perfectly. That's not to say it's easy though, it took me quite a lot of work to get it working the way it does.

[Chris D]

Yes, I do currently have an external hard drive hooked up to my PS3, and it does recognize it as available storage to access music and movies. A PS3 isn't going to be able to run all the video applications that a PC would, though, to play some of the non-mainstream video formats. (not sure exactly which ones a PS3 would play, but I doubt that any will be able to play a ripped BD with zero quality loss)

So... you're running into something that all of us experience, that we want the Ferrari performance, but can't afford it, and look at options to save money. Often, we wonder why we can't find a solution that seems like a reasonable compromise to us, like... "well... can't I save money by finding something that gives me Ferrari performance, if I give up the exterior Ferrari luxury appearance?"

For movies, we want it to look perfect in original 1080p (or better). We want it to sound perfect with lossless audio. We want the convenience of having it stored on a device with instant access, and not have to hang on to physical storage discs. (often, we even want more like region-free video, or acess before official release dates, but that's another story)

The problem is, given current technology and consumer equipment, that's not easy. Can it be done? Sure, but because of this scarcity, you're going to pay for it. I think it would be like saying back in 1995, "hey... why can't I save all my CD's to a portable storage computer, in full audio resolution?"

So... keep looking! I know I'm not the definitive expert, and don't know all the equipment out there for ripped video. It's going to happen in the future, but I don't know that we're there yet.

Of course... if you do find a perfect solution, please let the rest of us know!!!

[Hdale85]

You can get the PS3 to play AVC formats but I don't remember in what wrapper.... I used to do this but it was quite painful. You can also setup something like Tversity that will transcode your collection and stream it over the network via the DLNA protocol. I found this to be quite buggy at times but others say they have no problems. If you don't have a wired network then 1080p would be out of the question though.

[Chris D]

Mfreyhol, don't ever say I'm not your buddy... I did some research for you today, and it seems that the two big issues with trying to rip BD's are (1) that it's illegal with copyright DRM stuff, and (2) it takes up a massive file size, obviously 40-50 GB per movie. Those reasons are some of why it's so expensive to get server products for it.

So, there is no official "legal" way to rip a BD. That being said, I had a great discussion with a company today, Fusion Research, that can license a $1,000 server control software to control media stored on servers. So if you created your own NAS or server, and put any files you wanted to on there, on your own, (i.e. if somehow on your own you magically became in posession of ripped DVD's and BD's) then this would do what you want it to do, and yes, if would be lossless performance from the BD audio/video. So if you want, they could do it through me, as well as work with you direct on your needs, to help you create a solution that you're looking for, at as low a cost-point as possible. It still may not reach the ultra-low cost that you might be looking for, but could be a solution.

Feel free to talk to me offline, and we'll see what we can do for ya.

[numberoneoppa]

These are the guys to ask.

http://doom9.net

http://forum.doom9.org/

BRD can be ripped to x264 at about 12GB per movie with no discernable loss in video or sound quality. The settings using megui and avisynth are very many and quite customizable. Problem with x264 is that you can't stream to those devices. You might try h264 which is nearly as good but has more hardware support.

edit: For the record, though, the .mkv container format is not supported on ps3 so remember that! You'll have to use .avi or another less advanced container.

[Hdale85]

As I recall any player that supports H.264 can decode x264.

[Lex]

Gentlemen, without getting overly involved here, I want to caution that we as a forum cannot be involved in allowing discussion of any illegal copy discussion, we neither condone, nor approve of non sanctioned software/movies/music as a forum, nor can we allow this to be a place for others to gather information on such activity. I will have to review this further after hours, but for now, this thread is locked.

After review, I have decided that stepping over the line to discuss copying Blue Ray to file server, is not something we wish to allow here at HTGuide. the problem with someone saying it's a backup is, it could just as easily be a rent to storage solution, and that violates copyright for sure. Technically, it's a violation either way, but I personally always felt that a person should be able to backup a copy for personal storage of movies they own on disc, however, this has never been the way the DVD media folks have seen this.

I will be in further discussion concerning this subject with my moderating staff privately, but for now, we just cannot allow this line of discussion, for fear of retribution from the recording industry against HTGuide. We thus can have no part in providing a place for these discussions.

Thanks for your cooperation.
Doug