graphics card question

[Lex]

I think my PC build skills are slipping, been to long. AGP means it has the dedicated graphics slot, almost always the first slot on the mobo, and a longer slot than a PCI, right? I just want to make sure before I open this card I haven't bought something wrong.


I picked up an ATI Radeon 9550 256 mg AGP card. I know it's not the best, fastest, but the idea is to increase resolution over my old V8200 ASUS card, (card to be replaced if you want to look up what it is) which only does 1024 X 768 max resolution.

I'm hopeful to be able to extend upward and make my desktop a bit finer detailed on this 23" HD monitor.

Thanks.
Doug

[Kevin P]

Yes, AGP is the dedicated slot, the standard type for the past 5 years or so. The new standard is PCI-E, so if you have an older mobo, look for cards that say AGP on them.

[Lex]

Yeah, this ASUS dual CPU Athlon board is about 4 years old I think. Gee changing standards, who would uh thunk that up, huh huh? :M

Just so next time you build a PC, your memory, graphics, everything is crap.

I think I should be compatible with the ATI card. Thanks Kev.

[aud19]

Any reason you went ATI over Nvidia Doug?

[wildfire99]

I run my 23" LCD with a Radeon 7000 (the VE), which has 32MB of RAM. And yes, at 1900x1200x32bpp it's pushing the very limit of the card, but it works. I was wondering why the V8200 wouldn't do the trick until I noticed it had no DVI connector. The difference between DVI and analog VGA is ridiculous... I can't stand to use the analog stuff anymore (even my old 22" "high-end" CRT).

Mwave had a nice deal on a Radeon 9200 with DVI for $18... I am still tempted (just so I have some more video memory free for graphics apps). http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec....iteria=CB00049

[Lex]

It looked like the best bang for the buck card that Wallys had in stock, it was the only 256 meg card. Did I need that? Probably not. But I figure if I am upgrading, going from 70-75 to 125 is not a huge difference. Significant yes, but still doable. As far as being in love with any particular vid card like Nvidia? I can't say I am at this point. If there was a significant reason to go one vs the other, I'd listen, but it better happen pretty fast, as I will be opening this card soon.

I do not care about paying Best Buy 175 for a card with a 50.00 rebate. I'd rather just have the 125 value up front.

[Lex]

Patrick, I am not convinced I can get the DVI/HDMI type connectivity working. I never did get HDMI to DVI to work with it in my bedroom, yet as soon as I hooked my 32" plasma up back in the bedroom, the connection worked instantly. So, I may still be stuck with analog in here.

[wildfire99]

The monitor is a consumer/living room kind of monitor with HDMI only? I haven't had to try that yet... fortunately all my gear has DVI inputs.

If you're doing analog I can't see any reason you can't go to full HD resolution and beyond with the Asus card, unless Windows is thinking your monitor can't do it because it's using a default monitor profile. There's no physical reason the Asus can't go higher than 1024x768, unless I'm missing something.

[Lex]

The monitor control panel says, it only does 1024 X 768. Windows defaults also has placed this limit. I do run Windows 2000. I have not upgraded drivers or anything for the card, but as it is now, no, it won't do it.

Forget HDMI, I believe this 23" gateway is supposed to be DVI. at least that's what the panel says when you scroll through the video options, it even says DVI input. Perhaps it might do better DVI to DVI? But it don't seem to work coming from an HDMI source. Yet that same source worked fine with my Sony 32" plasma, and the same cable. I will say though this was sold as a dual purpose TV/monitor. I was less than satisfied with it as a TV.

My Asus is rather old. Even if it is supposed to be able to do it. It's GeForce 3, with 64 meg of ram.

[wildfire99]

Well my point is that I have an even older, crustier card (32MB!), which performs quite adequately on my similar display. I have never had any luck with the DVI->VGA cables. The Gateway specs say it has an analog d-sub input. My guess as to the resolution limit is either a) No drivers installed or b) No monitor definition installed. I didn't realize it was a TV display, which explains the limited vertical resolution.

To fix the drivers, go to http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_81.95.html (generic nVidia drivers) or http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/vga...7184_w2kxp.zip (Asus' older driver set -- less pain, less gain)

To fix the monitor definition problem (I'm sure the LCD isn't sending a proper identification*) try this:

1. Go into Device Manager
2. Select the last "Default Monitor", right-click and choose "Properties"
3. Select the "Driver" tab then "Update Driver" button
4. Press "Next" then choose "Display a list of the known drivers..."
5. Press "Next" then "Show all hardware of this device class"
6. Find something that matches (or more closely matches) your monitor.
7. Press "Next" then "Finish"

(*That is, assuming you're not using a standard VGA->VGA or DVI->DVI cable. If it's a VGA->DVI cable, then goodness knows what's going on.)

Now, if neither of those works, it's possible windows is just brain-dead and doesn't understand the resolution required to drive the display. In that case, you can try PowerStrip and create a custom resolution. That's at http://entechtaiwan.net/util/ps.shtm (link hidden to the left). It's not free, but has a trial period.

If you really want to have a new card anyway, then nevermind, I just think you can save the cash by configuring the old one, unless the gateway itself is super-weird. I wouldn't feel entirely confident that a new card will work if the old one can't be configured to the gateway's resolution, however I do feel that either card should do the job. Personally I'd still pick up one of those $20 ATI's just for the DVI out, if you don't like the fuzz of the analog input, but I'd get the existing setup to work first.

K... that's my ramble for the day. Good luck any way you choose to go!

[Lex]

Thanks Patrick, you seem to know your stuff well. I did get around to downloading the one set of drivers last night, I think it was the Asus for starters, and will hopefully try this today. I started downloading, they were a bit slow, so I got sidetracked the rest the evening. I'm not necessarily that intent on a new card, or dropping the 125 cash right now, so we'll try this approach before I open the card. If I get it working, then I may just take the card back unopened.

But as far as the VGA/DVI business?

1. The monitor/TV has a straight VGA input, it's that much of a monitor. I am connected via straight VGA, just as I was with prior monitor. No settings changed between the two, a 19" Sony tube style, or the 23" LCD.

2. I know I looked probably in a manual at one point, and the digital input is DVI. So, I have tried a HDMI to DVI cable, unsuccessfully. Yet the same cable and same source to my 32" Sony Plasma DVI input, worked great.

3. I have not tried a computer DVI output to the DVI based connection.

[Marzen]

Most of the AGP problems I see are due to the voltage requirements of the video card paired with a motherboard. Aside from the nearly similar pinouts on the 3 or 4 AGP formats, some mobo's will only accept a card that runs 3.3vdc. I believe my Asus AGP8x slot is like that.
Most of the DVI/HDMI problems I run into are due to handshaking errors & timeouts due to cable length, switches, splitters, etc. I have found that I can bypass copy protection by booting to a monitor & then switch to another device. The protocol doesn't seem to recognize a break or make after power on. ??? Second most popular problem is the video card driver set to 'auto detect' rather than hard code the output to a particular resolution & refresh rate.

[Lex]

Again, to clarify, I moved this 23" Gateway TV/monitor from a 100% TV application where it worked less than admirably even on component video to using it 100% as a computer monitor. The jury is still out on how well it performs at that. I guess if it doesn't? I've got a nice 23" door stop/boat anchor, lol.

I'm not sure how applicable the AGP problems you spoke of Marzen are, probably not in my case. There could have been a handshake error creating the HDMI to DVI problem while I used it as a TV only, I don't know. Frankly, I don't care at this point, since I am not planning to use it as a TV anymore for now anyway.

For now, it's VGA to VGA, trying to get it to work as a monitor with existing card.

Patrick, I was able to install the NVidia driver last night, and software. A good thing it recognized it as a Gateway monitor connected. Not sure about model. It's better, giving me up to 1278 X 768, or whatever the correct number is there. I know it has a 720 and 768 setting, the 1278, not as sure about. But whatever 1200 number it is, it's applicable to both 720 and 768, as the only selection above 1024 on the width.

While the monitor seems overall better at this setting, there is a text issue. The text just does not appear solid and dark. It's more like it's partially masked, or erased? Looked strange. What's up there you think?

Doug

[aud19]

Do you not have DVI output from your current vid card Doug?

[wildfire99]

He doesn't... Asus V8200 is VGA only, from the pics I've seen.

The gateway's native resolution is 1280 × 768 pixels. Anything other than that will look weird as it gets scaled up or down. If the video drivers and/or windows simply refuse to lock in 1280x768 (or 1280x720 with the top and bottom left blank), then that's where PowerStrip comes in handy. You can dial in any resolution you want, and I've had to use it in a few instances to 'force' a proper widescreen aspect ratio for oddball monitors.

You will also want to check your text anti-aliasing settings, it can do weird things to text. Right click the desktop, select 'properties', then 'appearance' tab then click 'effects'. Try turning off any text smoothing that is on, or play with it and see what you like. I'm not 100% sure Win2k has this, but it might.

DVI will clean up the signal to a very large degree, it's almost like having two different monitors, in my experience (though the analog signal on LCD looks no worse than the analog signal to a CRT -- the difference is in the transmission method). Unless you're 3D gaming or running other 3D software, there's not an appreciable difference between any card you can buy nowadays (I still do 3D modelling on my ATI 7000), so I tend to buy cheap for my workstations... but DVI is a requirement for me now!

[Lex]

ok, it turns out it was set to 1280 X 768, so that part is optimized. I checked the screen setting for smoothed text, tried it both ways, and the text still seems very quirky. Images look pretty good, strangely, photos of babes look pretty good even.

I even tried making the text 110%, still weird. (not that that setting worked as advertised anyway, dunno.

I think it's looking more and more like I either open the graphics card, or return for an alternate selection before I open.

[aud19]

Well if you return it I'll highly recommend the Asus 256MB 6600TD with "Silencer" heat Sink that has both a VGA and DVI output. I picked it up for about $140CA about a month ago so I'd imagine you should be able to get it near $100 in the states a month'ish later.

[ekkoville]

I agree on the DVI output, must have these days and for the future.

By the way Doug.......

Merry Freakin' Christmas!

......FINALY...why can't we just say Merry Christmas and not be ashamed??

[Lex]

well, I don't have time nor inclination to run all over town on this need. ATI makes decent stuff, and Radeon usually has just fine graphics. So, I don't see it as a real compromise. I do wish it had been a bit less money. But I guess it's comparable to other 125.00 products. Maybe a 60.00 card would do as well, maybe not, I can't say for sure. But for 125 to use for several years, I don't have a real problem with that and it does have the DVI and VGA support.

No one seems to have that card in this area Jason.

I agree Erik, and while this may not be the place to discuss this, I'm not sure if it's being ashamed as much as it is everyone's tippy toing around anymore afraid they are going to offend someone. Well, I'm sorry, but I am not doing it anymore. USA was born as a country of free expression, freedom of religion without concern for persecution, and to give up one bit of those rights, voluntarily or otherwise, is for me to do an injustice to my forfathers. I really believe that. So, as you say, Merry Christmas, and feel good saying it! :B For me it's not just all about the Christ in Christmas either. I really just feel like it's Christmas, it's not just holidays. I want my daughter to feel that way, and her daughter or son someday.

Doug

[ekkoville]

Back to the video cards, I have an ATI All-in-Wonder Pro 9600 with a Radeon chip in it and it is fantastic. Very clear and resolution to 1600x1200 I believe. It is almost two years old and probably cheap if you can find one. No DVI though, bummer.

[wildfire99]

ok, it turns out it was set to 1280 X 768, so that part is optimized. I checked the screen setting for smoothed text, tried it both ways, and the text still seems very quirky.

Both ways, plus off. For LCDs, I don't use either font/text smoothing option... it looks better off, unless it's a handheld 320x240 mini display.

Another thing I just found out by accident is that my 23" LCD panel does not always auto-adjust properly. I entered it's menu and manually forced an auto-adjust (where it attempts to re-clock to the incoming VGA signal -- I was using VGA to troubleshoot bootup) once I hit the windows desktop and the picture was far improved, almost acceptable compared to DVI. You may want to check out the menus for that kind of adjustment. DVI of course makes this irrelevant.

I think it's looking more and more like I either open the graphics card, or return for an alternate selection before I open.

If it was my personal PC, and I have many I've built, I would just get the $20 ATI DVI-capable card online (it's a better card than I use for even higher resolution), with the only exceptions being if you will use the computer as an HTPC or a gaming rig. For the former, the GeForce 6600GT's are nice (thanks to PureVideo), for the latter, of course you want to go nuts. There is no difference in the 2D environment (if anything, some more modern 3D cards forego the comprehensive 2D acceleration and are slower for dragging windows around).

[Lex]

I gave up on HTPC ideas, to quirky for me and to much hassle. Instead, I opted for HD upconversion via a Samsung HD-1000 home player. Ok, 2 of them and am extatic about my DVD quality at home.

not sure I need to cheap out to 20.00 mode for this, while I respect what your saying and it may be the best solution. I'd personally choose a more well rounded card, leaving gaming open as possibilities, as well as any 3D renderings. I enjoy nice graphics.

Doug