Computer Newbie Building a DIY PC from scratch

[Chris D]

Well, my PC is coming up on being 4 years old, and is showing some age. Now may not be the time to replace it, but if I do, I'm considering building my own. I've never done it, so I'm a little apprehensive. In general, I'm great with learning and building things, but am not sure where to learn from and don't want to mess up and end up with $1000 worth of scrap junk. I'd very much to hear ya'lls thoughts and suggestions so I can start learning and maybe do this sometime in the future.

The computer would be primarily used for gaming and the playing of multimedia. This would be my primary home computer likely in my den, but I might move it into my theater for use as a simple-functioning HTPC. In general, I say that my focus will be on it being FAST. I'm all about function over form, too.

I'll focus on just the PC, and say for now at least that I don't need any new software, speakers, video monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc.

Here's my thoughts and questions about specific components:

Case: I don't want just a plan boring box, but neither do I want something that lights up the whole room with neon and obnoxious plastic acoutriments. Something with a little flair might be nice, maybe with an LED or two, but not too many lights. I don't need any window to the case. I'd be open to looking at horizontal "desktop" cases, especially if I'm going to bring it into my theater. One question--does anybody make computer cases that are actually rack mountable in a standard A/V rack?

Processor: Needs to be FAST. The new dual-core processors from Intel and AMD sound nice, but I'm not too sure what advantage that gives. I've only owned Dell in the past, with Intel. But I really don't have a preference--just needs to be fast and powerful.

Cooling: I don't have a clue here, what's good or not. Doesn't need to be silent, but definitely has to be on the quiet side.

Motherboard: Don't hardly know anything here. It would need to support all the latest technology of firewire, USB 2.0, etc, which I think is a function of the motherboard.

Memory: Again, must be fast. I'm thinking 1GB of whatever's best right now.

Video card: Again, fast and powerful. The new 512 MB video cards sound great--maybe I should wait a bit for their price to come down. I would need a digital video output (DVI, do any video cards support HDMI?) but don't need any more than one. Won't be using dual monitors. Don't think I need a TV tuner, but wouldn't hurt. I'd very much like to have A/V INPUTS to the computer for capturing A/V, but don't know if this is part of any video cards.

Sound card: Most importantly, I need a digital audio output. I'd like to have 7.1 capability, and it would be a plug to have the capability of 7.1 analog RCA outputs for connection to 7.1 inputs on a A/V receiver. Same thing as the video card in that A/V INPUTS would be great, but don't know if this is part of any sound cards. Would slightly prefer the sound card to be onboard, but may be external to add functionality.

Disc drives: Need two, as a minimum one of them a CD/DVD burner.

Hard drives: I've got a multimedia collection going with audio, video, and picture files that's sure to grow. Perhaps two larger drives?

Other drives: Don't really need memory card readers. I hardly ever use a 3.5 disk drive anymore, but I'm guessing I might regret not putting one in.

Communiction cards: I need a networking card for connecting to my wireless router. Need a phone modem. Bluetooth capability would be nice.

Ports: Must have front and rear USB 2.0 ports. Needs rear firewire ports. Don't have any need right now for a front firewire port, but may need it in the future. Rear serial port would be a plus, but not completely necessary.

If you buy these components listed above, is that it? Or are there other internal components that you have to buy separately, like cables?


What would be the cost of something like this? $1500? $2000? More? Thanks for your help, guys. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

[Chris D]

Here's some cases that look interesting to me, after searching NewEgg.com:

[Neal_C]

Chris,

I need to get out the door, so let me just make a few comments and then I will try to come back later and elaborate more.

I'm a big fan of building my own rig, especially when it is for gaming or the like. If I was just getting a general use PC, I would probably just buy from Dell because it isn't really worth my time to compete price wise in the low end area. It could be done, but not without some serious shopping around for deals, etc.

But when you start talking 1500 or 2k range, I think you can get more for your money by doing it yourself.

The case will just be your preference. I would say be sure you slap atleast a 450 watt power supply in there if it doesn't come with one.

The processor: I own systems with both AMD and Intel. My first choice is always AMD. I just think you get more performance for your money. Amd's 64 bit line are very good processors. I use an Athlon 64 3000+ in my gaming rig.
When it comes to dual core, don't be fooled by how much more expensive AMD's chip is than the Intel. I will have to find some benchmarks, but I am pretty sure that I have read that AMD dual core at 2.2 ghz will squash even the fastest Intel dual core that is out. That is the reason the AMD is priced higher.

There are lots of good Mobo's out there with tons of features. You need to settle on a processor first and also a video card.

For the video card, you need to decide if you want AGP or the newer PCI-E. Or, maybe you want to do SLI, which has taken off again somewhat.

You can still shop around for deals. Check out Newegg as a good online retailer, but also check for deals on parts at Slickdeals , Bensbargains , and Gotapex .

There seems to always be something you can get for a good deal after rebate or coupon or something like that. I think the last couple of days you could get a 160 gig WD for $30 after rebates and also a 16x Dual Layer DVD burner for $48 shipped from Newegg. If you don't mind rebates and shopping around a little and maybe ordering from different places, you can definitely save some dough.

Ok, wrote more than I thought. Will try to add later. Good luck.

[Kevin P]

Hey Chris, welcome to our little corner where us PC geeks hang out. You've come to the right place, as I have built not one, but two high-performance PCs in the past year (the 2nd one wasn't planned but I had to replace the first one after it was destroyed in a house fire). So we can offer some ideas and tips.

Well, my PC is coming up on being 4 years old, and is showing some age. Now may not be the time to replace it, but if I do, I'm considering building my own. I've never done it, so I'm a little apprehensive. In general, I'm great with learning and building things, but am not sure where to learn from and don't want to mess up and end up with $1000 worth of scrap junk. I'd very much to hear ya'lls thoughts and suggestions so I can start learning and maybe do this sometime in the future.

4 years is a good time to replace. After 4 years technology advances far enough to leave you behind, and it's amazing how slow that PC can be after 4 years, even though it's the same speed (and seemed blazing fast) as when you got it.

The computer would be primarily used for gaming and the playing of multimedia. This would be my primary home computer likely in my den, but I might move it into my theater for use as a simple-functioning HTPC. In general, I say that my focus will be on it being FAST. I'm all about function over form, too.

Then you want a performance oriented system, with a fast CPU, large hard drives, plenty of RAM, high performance video card and good cooling.

Case: I don't want just a plan boring box, but neither do I want something that lights up the whole room with neon and obnoxious plastic acoutriments. Something with a little flair might be nice, maybe with an LED or two, but not too many lights. I don't need any window to the case. I'd be open to looking at horizontal "desktop" cases, especially if I'm going to bring it into my theater. One question--does anybody make computer cases that are actually rack mountable in a standard A/V rack?

Yes, there are rack mount or horizontal HTPC style cases floating around out there. I recommend one that has, or will accept, at least one 120mm fan. 120mm fans push more air and make less noise than the more commonly used 80mm or 90mm case fans.

Processor: Needs to be FAST. The new dual-core processors from Intel and AMD sound nice, but I'm not too sure what advantage that gives. I've only owned Dell in the past, with Intel. But I really don't have a preference--just needs to be fast and powerful.

Two words: Athlon 64. There's a whole range of them, from entry level (2800+) up to 4000+ and then the high-end (and high priced) FX series which are the top of the AMD line.

Dual-core chips are starting to appear as well. These are essentially two CPUs on one chip, which share a memory controller and cache. Unless you run multithreaded applications, or multiple CPU intensive apps at the same time, dual core will be of little benefit at the current prices. Down the road though the prices will drop, and I may upgrade the processor in my Phantom Stalker II over to dual core, just so I can run two instances of SETI@Home at once.

Cooling: I don't have a clue here, what's good or not. Doesn't need to be silent, but definitely has to be on the quiet side.

The main items of concern when it comes to cooling is CPU cooling and case cooling. In most cases air cooling is used, which uses heatsinks and fans. Some hardcore gamers and overclockers use liquid cooling, but that is far more complex to implement than slapping a heatsink/fan combo on top of the CPU.

If you want quiet cooling, bigger is better when it comes to heatsinks and fans. That's why I recommended you get a case that will accept 120mm fans instead of the usual 80 or 90mm fans. Larger fans can circulate more air at lower RPMs, meaning more cooling and less noise. Similarly, if you put a tiny heatsink/fan on the CPU and the fan has to run at RPMs that rival the turbines in your C-17's engines, the PC is going to be noisy. On the upside, the retail boxed Athlon 64 CPUs come with a heatsink/fan that is pretty quiet for a stock unit. If you want the ultimate in air cooling performance, check out the Thermaltake Silent Tower like I used in my Phantom Stalker. I see temps between 38-41C under SETI load on my 4000+ CPU. And this is with a quiet 90mm fan. If you don't mind sacrificing some cooling performance for a really quiet HSF, check out the Zalman products like what Trevor used in his Silver Stealth PC.

Last but certainly not least, for cooling you need to consider case airflow. A huge heatsink/fan and 120mm fans won't keep the case cool if the air can't flow inside the case. Try to route cables so there is a clear air flow from the front of the case to the rear. I use the round IDE and floppy cables since they allow better airflow than the common flat ribbon cables.

Motherboard: Don't hardly know anything here. It would need to support all the latest technology of firewire, USB 2.0, etc, which I think is a function of the motherboard.

Higher-end motherboards integrate pretty much everything on board, with the likely exception of video. Which is a good thing, since you want to choose a video card that meets your needs, and want to be able to upgrade the video card down the road as higher performance models become available.

The things to look for in a motherboard are: chipset type (most popular for Athlon 64 boards are nVidia's nForce chipset, and the VIA chipset), CPU socket type (which determines what CPUs you can use), and video card slot type (AGP, PCI-E, or SLI). You have to choose a motherboard that will accept the CPU type you want. An AMD chip won't work in a motherboard designed for an Intel chip, or vice versa.

Also important are the types/number of IDE or SATA connectors, for connecting hard drives and CD/DVD/burners. Many high-end motherboards can support RAID 0 or 1 configurations. Most motherboards have on-board USB 2.0, serial, parallel, and firewire. If the motherboard you pick lacks any of these, you can easily get an add-on card to add what you need.

I could go on and on about motherboards, but I'll stop here and you can ask more specific questions later. I used the Asus A8V Deluxe motherboard in my Phantom Stalker PCs. It has the VIA chipset, Socket 939 CPU (accepts Athlon 64 socket 939 chips), has a VIA SATA/IDE RAID controller plus a Promise SATA/IDE RAID controller, allowing up to 4 SATA drives and/or 6 IDE devices. It has on-board audio with SPDIF (optical digital) output, 8 USB, 2 Firewire, an 8X AGP slot, and 5 PCI slots.

Memory: Again, must be fast. I'm thinking 1GB of whatever's best right now.

DDR400 is what my Stalker uses. Memory type is a function of what the motherboard supports/requires.

Video card: Again, fast and powerful. The new 512 MB video cards sound great--maybe I should wait a bit for their price to come down. I would need a digital video output (DVI, do any video cards support HDMI?) but don't need any more than one. Won't be using dual monitors. Don't think I need a TV tuner, but wouldn't hurt. I'd very much like to have A/V INPUTS to the computer for capturing A/V, but don't know if this is part of any video cards.

Take your pick, ATI or nVidia chipset, available on many brands of cards. Plan on spending $400 or more on a high performance card. You'll also have to pick an interface: AGP, PCI Express or SLI. AGP has been around the longest; PCI-E is newer and some of the higher end cards use it; SLI is the ultimate in performance which bridges two cards together.

Although some cards have video capture built in, I'd plan on getting a separate capture card to handle capture duties.

Sound card: Most importantly, I need a digital audio output. I'd like to have 7.1 capability, and it would be a plug to have the capability of 7.1 analog RCA outputs for connection to 7.1 inputs on a A/V receiver. Same thing as the video card in that A/V INPUTS would be great, but don't know if this is part of any sound cards. Would slightly prefer the sound card to be onboard, but may be external to add functionality.

Some motherboard's onboard sound cards offer optical and/or coaxial digital outputs, including the Asus A8V I use. If not, get a good sound card, such as the higher end Creative Labs cards or similar. If it has a digital output, it'll be able to do anything your set top boxes (DVD player etc.) can do, including 7.1, DTS, etc.

Disc drives: Need two, as a minimum one of them a CD/DVD burner.

These are easy, just pick a brand you like. I've had good luck with Lite-On drives. I went with a combo DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive for one, and a DVD burner for the other. That way I can read DVDs on both drives, burn CDs on both drives, and burn DVDs on one.

Hard drives: I've got a multimedia collection going with audio, video, and picture files that's sure to grow. Perhaps two larger drives?

Two larger drives works. I have two 160 GB SATA drives in my Stalker. Larger drives are available nowadays, and drives are cheap. If you want raw speed, get the Western Digital Raptors. If you want drives that are dead quiet, go for Samsung. I've had Samsungs in several of my past machines and they've been reliable and dead quiet.

Other drives: Don't really need memory card readers. I hardly ever use a 3.5 disk drive anymore, but I'm guessing I might regret not putting one in.

Put a floppy in, you won't know when you'll need it. If you go with SATA drives, you'll need a floppy to load SATA drivers when installing XP.

Communiction cards: I need a networking card for connecting to my wireless router. Need a phone modem. Bluetooth capability would be nice.

Take your pick, many to choose from. I'm partial to Linksys for wireless cards.

Ports: Must have front and rear USB 2.0 ports. Needs rear firewire ports. Don't have any need right now for a front firewire port, but may need it in the future. Rear serial port would be a plus, but not completely necessary.

Most motherboards have support for front and rear USB ports. The rear ports are on the back panel of the motherboard. The front ports are pin connectors on the motherboard that are plugged into USB ports on the case. So pick a case that has front USB ports, and a motherboard with connectors for front USB ports. Firewire, same thing. Look for a motherboard with the appropriate connection(s).

If you buy these components listed above, is that it? Or are there other internal components that you have to buy separately, like cables?

The case, motherboard, and power supply will most likely include the cables you need. However, I will usually buy the "round" IDE and floppy cables and use them in place of the ribbon cables that come with the mobo, for a neater installation and for airflow. If your case doesn't include a power supply, you'll have to buy one. I'd go for at least a 450 watt PSU for a performance machine. If you go with a SLI video card, or a high-end nVidia based video card, you may need a 500 or 550 watt power supply. I like Antec and PC Power & Cooling for power supplies. If you want a quiet PSU, look at PC Power & Cooling's Silencer series, which is available up to 470 watts.

What would be the cost of something like this? $1500? $2000? More? Thanks for your help, guys. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

It depends on what components you get. The CPU and video card are the most expensive parts, so plan your budget around that. A good case will run you $100-150 or so, and a quality power supply maybe $60-100 depending on what brand you buy. I spent maybe $1500 to build my first Phantom Stalker, with all high end parts.

[Shane Martin]

Chris,
As far as cases go, I would get this one.

http://www.pcclub.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A1306226

Coolermaster Centurion 5
Combined with a Zalman fan/heatsink, you would get a near dead quiet pc with power galore. Buying one locally will save you some money IMHO. The price of shipping a good case is pretty high.

Heatsink: I like the Zalman. Never a complaint about mine. Trevor has one too. My friend uses the same one. You could go with the retail box one with the fan if you want. I do have one I'm not using if you would want it. I went with the Zalman.

CPU: I would look at the prices of the AMD processors and just go with the one where the price plateaus. Usually there is a large price jump to move to the next one so just go with the one just below the price leap. I REALLY like the AMD 64 stuff. Mine just flat out impresses me alot and with the newest Windows supporting 64 bit processors I'm ready. Mine runs about 30 degrees cooler than my buddies P4 3ghz processor.

Video cards: I have used both and prefer Nvidia. Their drivers are rock soild and you never ever have to get a special release/patch to support Nvidia drivers. You have to do that occassionally with ATI. Also Nvidia's support for HI-Def with their new software is worth noting. Nvidia calls it PureVideo. I personally bought the 6800GT from BFG which overclocks the card and provides a lifetime warranty with it. If you go this route, buy it at Best Buy. It is WAY CHEAPER than anywhere on the net. Newegg can't touch them for the price.

Power Supply: I bought this one: http://www.pcclub.com/product_detail...temno=A6226341 never an issue with lacking power. In fact I got the 550W version. The PC power and cooling ones were too pricey for me. This one is a server level one and never has caused an issue with my pc or my friends. It is also dead quiet.


Motherboards: I would do alot of research on these. I went with an Asus A8V deluxe. Never an issue.

Ram: 1 gig of pc3200 is plenty. I went with Mushkin. I'd say as long as you stay with one with a lifetime warranty you are good. Mushkin and Kingston are great. No reason to deviate from these 2 brands.

Wireless: I'm not a linksys guy. I could never recommend them after the issues I had. I know AMD makes a board with built in Wifi that might be worth looking into.

Sound card: Some hate Creative(I did), Some don't. My Creative Audigy 2zs has been a dream.

Good Luck.

[Kevin P]

Good suggestions Shane, especially the motherboard (that's the one I used) I'm not real impressed with the Asus WiFi card though, its reception quality seems poor compared to the Linksys pieces I'm using in the same apartment.

Linksys can be hit or miss as well, but I've had more good luck than bad with them. The WRT54G router and WPC54G PCMCIA card have been rock solid for me.

[Radec]

Chris,
Might check out http://www.sharkyextreme.com/
They monthly put out a buyers guide for many different budgets. I think your PC would be somewhere in-between a few of their reviewed setups (I think their breaks are $1000, $2500, and $4000), but you'll get an idea of how far your $$$ can go, which IMO is the hardest part of PC purchsing. Example :Video cards go from $45-$1000+. Somwehere in there is YOUR ideal value/price/performance card but only you can choose where they meet. Good luck!!

[Neal_C]

The Asus boards definitely seem to be popular. I use the Asus K8V SE deluxe in my gaming rig.

[Chris D]

Great, you guys really are the best. I'll check out the various websites you recommend. Here's my next questions that came up from your answers:

- You guys wrote about the different video card types. The AGP moniker is familiar to me from having bought computers for the past decade or so. But could you explain PCI-E and SLI to me a bit? I would have no idea as to why to buy one type vs. another.

Yes, there are rack mount or horizontal HTPC style cases floating around out there. I recommend one that has, or will accept, at least one 120mm fan. 120mm fans push more air and make less noise than the more commonly used 80mm or 90mm case fans.

Okay, cool. While I've found horizontal "desktop" cases like the ones I posted above, I haven't found any yet that are actually rack mountable. Is there a good place to go for these?

As far as cases go, I would get this one.

http://www.pcclub.com/product_detai...itemno=A1306226

Coolermaster Centurion 5

Thanks, Shane. That looks like quite a functional case, which I'm all about. I was hoping to go with something a little less "plain" in style, though, if you know what I mean. I'll add it to the list of contenders, though!

Dual-core chips are starting to appear as well. These are essentially two CPUs on one chip, which share a memory controller and cache. Unless you run multithreaded applications, or multiple CPU intensive apps at the same time, dual core will be of little benefit at the current prices. Down the road though the prices will drop, and I may upgrade the processor in my Phantom Stalker II over to dual core, just so I can run two instances of SETI@Home at once.

Kev, if I understand then, let's use an example: I'm playing a high-end game, let's say HL2 or Doom3, with no other major applications running, but in the background of Windows I've got several typical programs going like Norton System Works, Norton Internet Security, MSN Messenger, etc. Maybe at most one window of Windows Explorer open. Then as I understand it, a dual-core processor won't really run any faster than a single processor rated at the same speed?

On that note, I've seen you post about SETI many times, but I don't know if I've ever asked what that is--I'm curious.

Similarly, if you put a tiny heatsink/fan on the CPU and the fan has to run at RPMs that rival the turbines in your C-17's engines, the PC is going to be noisy.

Kev, you may be on to something there. If I install a C-17 engine, that would take care of fan cooling and electrical power galore. I wouldn't even have to plug the thing into the wall, I'd have the first DIY computer ever powered by jet fuel.

Also important are the types/number of IDE or SATA connectors, for connecting hard drives and CD/DVD/burners. Many high-end motherboards can support RAID 0 or 1 configurations. Most motherboards have on-board USB 2.0, serial, parallel, and firewire.

Already we're reaching the limits of my computer innards knowledge. What does RAID 0 or 1 configurations mean?

I went with a combo DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive for one, and a DVD burner for the other.

What's the difference between a DVD-ROM and a DVD-RW?

Heatsink: I like the Zalman. Never a complaint about mine. Trevor has one too. My friend uses the same one. You could go with the retail box one with the fan if you want. I do have one I'm not using if you would want it. I went with the Zalman.

Well, heck, I just might take you up on that offer.

I REALLY like the AMD 64 stuff. Mine just flat out impresses me alot and with the newest Windows supporting 64 bit processors I'm ready.

I've heard of the 64-bit thing, but I don't know what it means. Is this a more powerful version of Windows XP, the 64 bit edition? Would it be worth running this, and if so, would it require a 64 bit processor? On that note, should I even consider holding off building a computer until the next version of Windows comes out, I think it's 1Q 2006?

Other ?'s:

- Do any video cards support HDMI?

- Can you get internal bluetooth capability? Or is this only via external components?

[Chris D]

Hey, looking around at cases, am I seeing correctly that certain cases only support certain motherboards?

And what is the "ATX" that all cases seem to state?

[Kevin P]

ATX is the industry standard motherboard type (form factor) that is in use nowadays. An older style was "AT", now there's ATX. The main difference is ATX uses the soft power button rather than a physical on/off switch, and the OS/BIOS can power down the PC when shut down.

The case, power supply, and motherboard should all be ATX compatible, if that's the form factor you are looking at. Fortunately, 99% of them are nowadays.

There's also Micro ATX which is form factor used for small, low profile cases. I believe MicroATX uses the horizontally mounted PCI slots. If you go this route, you'll need a MicroATX compatible mobo, case and power supply.

There's also "Extended ATX", which IIRC is a larger motherboard, perhaps with more slots, which you would need a full sized case for. I think this form factor is more commonly used for servers.

[Radec]

64 Bit processing article:

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112749,00.asp

Cards with HDMI out ....personaly never seen one.

But could you explain PCI-E and SLI to me a bit? I would have no idea as to why to buy one type vs. another.

The different versions are PCI-E and AGP. PCI-E is the newest technology and from tests I have seen doesn't offer any improvement over AGP at this time. However the potential and future is with PCI-E so I'd see about this type of card.
SLI (Scalable Link Interface) is a technology that allows you to run 2 videocards to power one monitor, increasing performance by up to 2x. SLI is only possible with PCI-E. Pretty cool :T

[Kevin P]

You guys wrote about the different video card types. The AGP moniker is familiar to me from having bought computers for the past decade or so. But could you explain PCI-E and SLI to me a bit? I would have no idea as to why to buy one type vs. another.

AGP has been the standard for video cards for years. Most mainstream cards support this type, so if you're building a typical PC, that's the route I would go. But... if you're a hardcore gamer and want more performance, PCI-E or SLI is the way to go. PCI-E is a new (introduced last year), which is an extension to the PCI standard that has been in place for years. I think eventually everything will move to PCI-E, not just video cards, but that's some time off. SLI is basically just taking two video cards and bridging them so you have two GPUs processing your video instead of just one (think of a dual-core CPU for your video card). SLI is expensive and needs lots of power and cooling, but if you're a hardcore gamer it's the way to go.

Okay, cool. While I've found horizontal "desktop" cases like the ones I posted above, I haven't found any yet that are actually rack mountable. Is there a good place to go for these?

Try googling for them, I'm sure some specialty companies make them. Or you could take a horizontal HTPC case and add rack mount "ears" to it.

Kev, if I understand then, let's use an example: I'm playing a high-end game, let's say HL2 or Doom3, with no other major applications running, but in the background of Windows I've got several typical programs going like Norton System Works, Norton Internet Security, MSN Messenger, etc. Maybe at most one window of Windows Explorer open. Then as I understand it, a dual-core processor won't really run any faster than a single processor rated at the same speed?

True, most applications will only utilize a single core. But if you have multiple CPU intensive applications running at once, they can be divvied up between the cores for faster performance. For example, you could be encoding video with one core while calculating a large spreadsheet with the other, and they won't slow one another down (much).

On that note, I've seen you post about SETI many times, but I don't know if I've ever asked what that is--I'm curious.

SETI stands for the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence. SETI@Home is a distributed project where you run a small application on your PC that receives chunks of radio telescope data from SETI, your PC does computations on the data and then sends it back. With millions of people running it, large amounts of data can be processed quickly and cheaply. For us performance PC geeks, the amount of time to process a SETI unit is one of our performance benchmarks. The faster the CPU, the faster we can crank out SETI units.

What's cool about SETI@Home is you can run it in the background and it takes advantage of all that time your CPU would otherwise just be sitting idle. It doesn't slow down your PC either, as it runs at a low priority, when you click on that spreadsheet, SETI steps aside and lets you still work with your PC.

Kev, you may be on to something there. If I install a C-17 engine, that would take care of fan cooling and electrical power galore. I wouldn't even have to plug the thing into the wall, I'd have the first DIY computer ever powered by jet fuel.

:lol: That would be neat, but it might not meet the noise level requirements for a HTPC.

Already we're reaching the limits of my computer innards knowledge. What does RAID 0 or 1 configurations mean?

RAID stands for Redundant Array Of Inexpensive Disks. It's a way of connecting multiple hard drives together to achieve larger storage capacities, redundancy, and/or faster performance. The most common RAID types are RAID 0, 1, and 5.

RAID 0 (a.k.a. striping) couples two or more drives together to create a larger, high performance "drive". For example, if you use two 160 GB drives in a RAID 0 configuration, you'll have a single logical drive with 320 GB of space. The data is interleaved between the two drives for greater performance. Speed freaks, hardcore gamers, and those who do heavy video editing use RAID 0 to increase performance. The drawback of RAID 0 is reliability - if either drive fails or gets corrupted, you lose ALL your data.

RAID 1 (aka mirroring) also couples two drives together, but it "mirrors" the same data on both drives for redundancy. RAID 1 is useful when reliability/redundancy is important, since if a drive fails, no data is lost. The drawback is you lose half your capacity--two 160 GB drives in RAID 1 will only give you 160 GB of space, but you won't lose any data if a drive fails.

RAID 5 uses 3 or more drives to achieve most of the advantages of both RAID 0 and RAID 1. It stripes the data across the drives for more performance, and it adds redundancy so if one drive fails, no data is lost. The drawback is you lose 1 drive's storage capacity for the redundancy. 3 160 GB drives in RAID 5 will give you 320 GB of storage. RAID 5 is often used in servers and drive arrays. Most consumer motherboards don't support RAID 5, you have to get an external controller card.

What's the difference between a DVD-ROM and a DVD-RW?

DVD-ROM drives only read DVDs. DVD-RW drives can read and write (burn) DVD-R or DVD-RW discs. The major optical drive types are:

CD-ROM: Reads CD type discs only
CD-R: Reads CDs, and can write to CD-R discs (no one makes these anymore, all burners are CD-RW compatible now)
CD-RW: Reads CDs, can can write to CD-R or CD-RW discs
DVD-ROM: Reads DVDs and CDs only
DVD-ROM/CD-RW: (often called a "combo" drive): Reads DVD, can read and write to CD-R and CD-RW discs
DVD-RW: Reads DVD and CD, writes to DVD-R, DVD-RW, CD-R, CD-RW
DVD+RW: Reads DVD and CD, writes to DVD+R, DVD+RW, CD-R, CD-RW (these typically also write to DVD-R and DVD-RW too)
DVD+RW DL: Like DVD+RW but also can write to DVD+R DL (dual layer) discs

Next, you'll ask what the difference between DVD-R/RW and DVD+R/RW is. They're basically just competing formats. Most DVD burners support both. Many set-top DVD players can play both, but some may only support DVD-R.

I've heard of the 64-bit thing, but I don't know what it means. Is this a more powerful version of Windows XP, the 64 bit edition? Would it be worth running this, and if so, would it require a 64 bit processor? On that note, should I even consider holding off building a computer until the next version of Windows comes out, I think it's 1Q 2006?

64-bit is the native "word" size of the CPU, in short how large an integer it can process in one step. 32 bit has been the standard for years, and now 64 bit processors are becoming more common. Most software is currently written for 32 bit processors and OSes, including Windows XP (though there is a 64-bit version of XP Pro available now). 64-bit processors are backwards compatible, meaning they can run the normal 32-bit XP no problem, and this is the route I recommend until 64 bit drivers, applications, etc. become more readily available.

The big advantage of 64 bit is it can address more memory - 32 bit CPUs are limited to 4 gigabytes of physical RAM. 64 bit CPUs can address up to 1 terabyte (1000 gigabytes) of memory.

Supposedly the next major Windows release (Longhorn) will be 64 bit. If this is true, then it won't run on all the 32-bit PCs out there.

- Do any video cards support HDMI?

Not that I know of, but most support DVI, which is adaptable to HDMI with a cable.

- Can you get internal bluetooth capability? Or is this only via external components?

There may be some motherboards with bluetooth built in, but more likely you'll have to add on either a bluetooth card (in a PCI slot), or a USB Bluetooth device. I've seen Bluetooth keyboards and mice, and they include a USB "dongle" that is plugged into the PC to give it the ability to communicate via Bluetooth.

[Shane Martin]

SLI is only possible with PCI-E.

Not quite true. I had SLI 5-7 years ago with PCI cards from Nvidia. Nvidia is the only way to go with SLI as ATI hasn't played that game yet. I can take a picture of my old SLI setup and show you what it is. Basically its a bridge that combines both cards and you would put a video adapter between the 2 cards and then hook you video into just one card however it runs off both.

On that note, should I even consider holding off building a computer until the next version of Windows comes out, I think it's 1Q 2006?

As I've heard if you have a legit copy of windows and a 64 bit processor, you will get a copy for nothing.

Well, heck, I just might take you up on that offer.

If you want it let me know. We can work out shipping and stuff. It's the factory fan for the AMD 64 3500+ processor. Would work for any of the newer ones too. I would get some Arctic Silver which is paste to put on top of the processor before you mount the fan on top. Mounting the fan is a scary thing at first but once you do it, its EASY. You can do it though.

Chris,
when you are ready to buy, besides consulting with us, I would look at the following sites for info:

hardocp.com
hardforum.com -< hard ocp's forum
anandtech.com
tomshardware.com

These four gave me alot of information as far as motherboards go. Hard Forum especially has a nice place where you can see what power supplies are not recommended, and what is the current hot stuff(motherboards etc). I would caution looking too deep there for info as alot of those folks are hard core and generally care about overclocking their pcs to get that last ounce of performance.

IMHO, overclocking is not worth it. You are pushing the hardware past its recommended levels to gain a little performance and some more #'s to add to your benchmarking scores but the difference I've seen is not worth the trouble. You are basically going to run the hardware into the ground faster.

The only way I did go with overclocking was in the video card and that was because it was the same price as a normal one and I got a lifetime warranty. Buying a BFG has been an awesome purchasing experience. They treat you right.

[Kevin P]

If you go with the factory CPU fan, just get the retail boxed AMD chip, it comes with the fan, and (on Newegg anyway) is only a dollar or so more than the OEM version, plus you get a 3 year warranty.

Attaching the heatsink/fan is easy, especially if you go with the one that comes with the chip. The mount is already on the motherboard, and the sink already has thermal paste on it, so you just stick it on, clamp it down, and plug the fan into the appropriate header on the motherboard. Since the A64 has a built-in heat spreader on top of the core, it's easier to get good heat transfer and harder to destroy the chip by accident by overtightening the HSF, than with the Athlon and Athlon XP.

If you go with an aftermarket HSF, mounting will be more complex, since the mount on the motherboard will have to be swapped. Definitely do this before mounting the motherboard to the case or motherboard tray, since you need to access the back side of the motherboard.

If you go with an aftermarket sink, get a tube of Arctic Silver 5, and apply it sparingly to the top of the chip and spread it out with a razor blade (a bit of grease the size of a grain of rice should be plenty). It should be a very thin coat, almost thin enough to see through if the bottom of the heatsink is lapped (smooth). If it's machined (not perfectly smooth), use a slightly thicker coat of AS5, just enough to be opaque. Then attach the sink and tighten it down. If it uses screws, bolts or nuts to tighten it down, be careful not to overtighten it. Just tighten it enough to be firm.

If you have to remove and reapply the sink, remove the thermal grease from the chip and the sink with pure isopropyl alcohol or acetone and apply new grease before reattaching the sink.

[aud19]

Just want to add a couple things

If you can, try to run a network cable to the unit for faster and more reliable data transfer. I realize that may not be possible however...

For audio, if you just need digital output I'd likely go onboard you can always upgrade to something better and cheaper down the line anyway... :lol: If you do upgrade I personally don't like Creative (cursed oversampling!) I'd go with an M-audio or the like

Oh and if you're going to do multiple drive arrays Id' likely go with a single small Samsung HD for your OS and programs then have 3 or more large Samsung's in a Raid 5 setup for speed and redunancy and massive space. Especially handy for archiving digital photos, video, music/movie server etc.

[Chris D]

Okay, cool... I did a little computer part browsing today. Give me your thoughts on some things that I found and what the salesmen said:

Kev, I found your case at CompUSA for $79.99. I was amazed at how big it is! It looks like a fantastic case. I just don't know if I'd like the style of something else better. (and I don't want to end up just being a copycat!)



Shane, PC Club had the Centurion 5 on display. In person, it's a much more attractive case than the pic. I like the mesh grill on the front--it's too bad that you lose the drive cutouts when you install disc drives, though. It's pretty sharp. The only models of the C5 they had though came with a 350W power supply, which sounds kinda low to me. I'd hate to get a case with a power supply and then just turn around and replace it.



The PC Club store had one of these Ahanix DVine 4 cases on sale all the way down to $149.99 from $199. It's a sharp looking case with a front LED display (I don't quite understand how this works or what it does, but I assume it's like a DVD player) Also, it only has two 5.25 external drives, so I guess one would have to be a DVD player/burner, and the other one... ??? Would it have to be a 3.5 floppy? Also, the rear fans are 2x60mm, not one 120mm, although they did have one set up and operating in the store and it really seemed quiet. It seems like a great deal, though.



PC Club has this DVD burner on sale this week for $89.99. It looks like it does double layer and even light scribe for some nifty disc tops.



This 550W power source is on sale for $49.99 after rebate. That sounds good to me--are all power sources pretty much the same per power rating? If not, what are the better things to look for?



Operating system: I'm thinking Windows 64 bit edition might be best. As I understand it, this is going to be the most powerful and forward-capable option. Now, if you build a HTPC, are there any extra functions that you get if you go with Windows Media Center Edition, or is just a convenience thing with the GUI setup?

Video Card: The PC Club salesman was telling me that a 512MB video card is way overkill that's just not necessary. I'm always wary when people make this statement. What about looking into the future a year or so? For a home user like me, that's not extreme high end, should I just stick with a 256MB card? And there's a huge price span for 256MB cards, not sure where I should jump in there, either.

[Kevin P]

Kev, I found your case at CompUSA for $79.99. I was amazed at how big it is! It looks like a fantastic case. I just don't know if I'd like the style of something else better. (and I don't want to end up just being a copycat!)

That's a great price for that case. Was it on sale? Usually it's $100 or so. For that price I'd snag it, if you like it. No problem being a copycat.

Shane, PC Club had the Centurion 5 on display. In person, it's a much more attractive case than the pic. I like the mesh grill on the front--it's too bad that you lose the drive cutouts when you install disc drives, though. It's pretty sharp. The only models of the C5 they had though came with a 350W power supply, which sounds kinda low to me. I'd hate to get a case with a power supply and then just turn around and replace it.

That's a nice looking case, but I agree with you on the power supply. You need more power for a performance rig. Do they give you the option of buying the case without a power supply, or the option to upgrade it when you buy it?

The PC Club store had one of these Ahanix DVine 4 cases on sale all the way down to $149.99 from $199. It's a sharp looking case with a front LED display (I don't quite understand how this works or what it does, but I assume it's like a DVD player) Also, it only has two 5.25 external drives, so I guess one would have to be a DVD player/burner, and the other one... ??? Would it have to be a 3.5 floppy? Also, the rear fans are 2x60mm, not one 120mm, although they did have one set up and operating in the store and it really seemed quiet. It seems like a great deal, though.

You could put a floppy in that case, but you'd have to get a 5.25" bezel for it. Or you could forego the internal floppy altogether and just hook one up temporarily if you need to install SATA drivers when installing XP.

PC Club has this DVD burner on sale this week for $89.99. It looks like it does double layer and even light scribe for some nifty disc tops.

Cool, I've never heard of light scribe before. I wonder how that works. I wonder if it would affect the playability of the disc afterward.

This 550W power source is on sale for $49.99 after rebate. That sounds good to me--are all power sources pretty much the same per power rating? If not, what are the better things to look for?

I'd check the reviews, as some power supplies are better than others. Like amplifiers and receivers, some cheap ones may boast a 550 watt rating but fall short, or have noisy or inaccurate rails, things like that. It's best to not skimp on the power supply, as problems with power can lead to problems with the system (crashes, lockups, errors, or even hardware damage).

Operating system: I'm thinking Windows 64 bit edition might be best. As I understand it, this is going to be the most powerful and forward-capable option. Now, if you build a HTPC, are there any extra functions that you get if you go with Windows Media Center Edition, or is just a convenience thing with the GUI setup?

The problem with going 64 bit is that you then need 64 bit drivers for all your hardware, and some manufacturers may not have stable 64 bit drivers ready yet. Plus, you'll want 64 bit applications, and they are still a bit on the scarce side. For example, very few antivirus applications have been ported to XP64 so far. You can run 32 bit applications on the 64 bit OS, but that's like running 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps on XP. It works, but is it the way to go?

I'd go with the 32-bit XP now, and perhaps upgrade later on. Or use 2 disk partitions and install both OSes, so you can try the 64 bit OS but still have the 32 bit to fall back on.

Video Card: The PC Club salesman was telling me that a 512MB video card is way overkill that's just not necessary. I'm always wary when people make this statement. What about looking into the future a year or so? For a home user like me, that's not extreme high end, should I just stick with a 256MB card? And there's a huge price span for 256MB cards, not sure where I should jump in there, either.

Well, that depends on how serious a gamer you are. If you spend hours on the top end games like Doom 3, you'll want the highest performance video card you can afford. If you only do occasional gaming or primarily use the rig as a HTPC, then look for a card that's strong in HTPC duties. 256MB should be sufficient now, but in a couple years you might need 512MB for newer games to run properly.

[Shane Martin]

That's a nice looking case, but I agree with you on the power supply. You need more power for a performance rig. Do they give you the option of buying the case without a power supply, or the option to upgrade it when you buy it?

No option. Just pitch it or save it for a rainy day. I had to do the same thing.

Or you could forego the internal floppy altogether and just hook one up temporarily if you need to install SATA drivers when installing XP.

This is what I did.

This 550W power source is on sale for $49.99 after rebate. That sounds good to me--are all power sources pretty much the same per power rating? If not, what are the better things to look for?

Avoid the Mad Dog brand. They are garbage. I would look on hardforum.com and they will tell you what to get and what NOT to get. The X-Connect brand is pretty shoddy as is the Mad Dog. My 550W was $99.

I'd go with the 32-bit XP now, and perhaps upgrade later on.

This is what I'd do. 64 bit os isn't ready for primetime.

Well, that depends on how serious a gamer you are. If you spend hours on the top end games like Doom 3, you'll want the highest performance video card you can afford. If you only do occasional gaming or primarily use the rig as a HTPC, then look for a card that's strong in HTPC duties. 256MB should be sufficient now, but in a couple years you might need 512MB for newer games to run properly.

Kevin speaks the truth here. I would make sure your motherboard is pretty future proof in your case so I'd just make sure you get a PCI-E board. You will pay more for your video card NOW but you will have alot of upgradability in the future unless you plan to upgrade boards in the next 2-3 years anyway then I think it's not a bad idea to save money and go with an AGP board. You won't lose any performance.

Chris,
I did 95% of my shopping at PC club because they were WAY CHEAPER than newegg. The processor I bought was $70 cheaper. The Case was cheaper. I paid a little more for the ram but no biggie. In the end I spent the same amount of cash and get a local place to return it and also some tech support

Currently with what I have video card wise I run games on max settings w/o any issues. I LOVE my BFG.

[Neal_C]

On the HP DVD burner with LightScribe:

It is a pretty cool feature and has no effect on playability afterward. The problem is that if you want to LightScribe your discs, you have to buy the special discs that HP makes. Not only do they cost a little bit more, but they aren't the best disks on the market.

You can get a better DVD burner for less money and also get the best disks on the market, Taiyo Yuden, for less than the LightScribe disks as well.

Just my thoughts here.

Edit: Did a little more looking into Lightscribe. They seem to only have DVD+R available right now and are in pretty short supply. BestBuy is selling a 10 pack of Lightscribe disks for $15.99. Ouch. As a comparison, I just bought 100 Taiyo Yuden disks for $30 online.

[Gordon Moore]

Chris,

some sites to look at ....

http://www.silentpcreview.com/

http://www.htpcnews.com/

Hardocp is okay....I check it daily but the focus is a little different there, don't get too wrapped up in what they say....don't get me wrong it's a good site....just a little hard core for you (IMO)

If you are looking to throw this pc on the gear rack you'll definitely want the focus to be speed with silence in mind. Cases that support 120mm fans are a nice to get. Why larger fan at lower RPM = same volume of air cooling with less noise.

As for style, you're on your own....do note....you get what you pay for in terms of quality.

Same goes for power supplies....cheaper tends to equal bad. It's inevitable. Some of the better ones will be in the recommended list at Silent PC... Look into those. Dont' skimp out on hte powersupply just to savea buck....bad power can cause all sorts of grief that will leave you scratching your head thinking something's wrong with the OS. I'd say prepare to blow $100 easy here.

Hard drives. SATA would be a good choice as ATA is old world and on it's way out. Samsung Spinpoints are well regarded for being quiet. Segate supports the latest SATAII spec with NCQ...(don't get hung up on terminology ...it's just good to get the latest greatest, that's all).

There is no such thing as overkill in the pc world. That's garbage. Define your budget and then buy the most technology that fits within that budget. If you think you'll be swapping out more than 3 pieces of gear, you're better off to buy new.

OS...stick with 32bit XP (Pro or home). 64 bit comes with zero support and you'd be effectively "beta-testing" this for Microsoft. Wait till there's a version on the store shelves.

Video....well there are better choices than others and itdepends on your goals....HTPC, gaming, everyday pc/surfing/typewriter type stuff. each application warrants a different card (possibly)....what's you goal here for the pc? Hookup to projector(HTPC) gaming.... other?

ATI or NVidia (the chip manufacturer) will be your 2 choices here...you really can't pick a bad one.

Also keep in mind if you'd like to use your pc as a PVR you might want to consider a video card that includes a tuner or add a tuner later....like the Hauppauge cards.

Audio...yup, m-audio is a really good choice and well regarded. The chaintech card
AV-710 is well reagarded and inexpensive. As well the MadDog 7.1 is a good option and cheaper than Creative... http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=maddog_1

Lightscribe is a cool technology but gimmicky and not worth being fenced in to expensive media....a permanent marker or a newer printer with DVD label printing (will print right on top of the disc and in colour no less) is a better option.... look into Lexmark or Canon on that. Lightscribe can't do that.


Personally I'd say forget about RAID.....you'll be out of your element unless you'd like to do some reading first....then we can point you in the right direction. I'd say, if you don't understand the concept or don't have the time to bone up on it....you can do without RAID and have a pc that works really well for you (I'm not knocking your potential to learn this as you are a really smart guy....but why introduce unecessary headaches for something that won't really pay back for what you intend to use it for? (though I'm not fully clear on your PC intentions just yet)....my 0.02).

One option is to get a motherboard with RAID (that's the cheapest route) and then the option is there if you ever wish to use it....plus the extra cost will be minimal.

An N-Force4 series based chipset would be a good route in that case. (basic, ultra or SLI) for the advanced RAID capabilities....make the process easier than ever.

[Gordon Moore]

Coming soon from A-Open...a Pentium based mini mac clone:



specs:

http://club.aopen.com.tw/news/News_ShowAnswer.aspx?RecNo=8327&Language=English

[Kevin P]

Mini mac clone? That's just a motherboard that supports the Pentium M chip. Nothing to do with Macs there... though the on-board video looks cool with its multiple outputs including component video.

Looks like a good choice for a HTPC, with the flexible video outputs (I don't see a SPDIF output on the audio side though). Also, the Pentium M runs cooler and with less power (it's designed for notebooks) so a quieter PC is doable with this board.

[Shane Martin]

ATI or NVidia (the chip manufacturer) will be your 2 choices here...you really can't pick a bad one.

IIRC there is something that Nvidia's dvd decoder does(HD related) that the ATI version can't do. This is more of a software thing but it requires an Nvidia 6800 series card.

[Gordon Moore]

That's why I said it's a Pentium based mini mac clone.

And yes, and interesting option for HTPC if I've ever seen one. I can think of many possiblities with this. Like I said before, it all depends at the end of day on your focus for the pc. If the price is right this could be interesting for all sorts of reasons

[aud19]

Stay away from HP burners IMO. I'd stick with LiteOn, LG, Plextor and the like

As others have mentioned, make sure you get a recommended power supply, some of the best money you'll spend You may also want to consider an affordable UPS from APC to protect your investment A "smart" one if you want the best protection.

Personally I'm an nvidia guy and I'd say get a 256 card (likely PCI-E to be futureproof) and then upgrade to a 512 card in a couple years when they come down in price. It's likely cheaper to buy both those cards than the one 512 now.

Those Ahanix cases sure are nice.... :drool:

I also agree that sticking with "normal" Windows XP is your best bet for now.

[Chris D]

Good stuff, thanks. Okay, it does sound like XP 64 isn't the best of choices. What about Windows Media Center Edition, though? Is the real benefit there just the GUI? It seems to me that it's more oriented towards the public, needing simpler functionality. But do you gain any capabilities by going with WMCE? Or would regular Win XP still be best? (or on that note, XP pro, I have both?)

[Gordon Moore]

If you want a WMCE type GUI on top of XP....you could just simply try this out today for free:

http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net/

It's one of the best free apps that is customizable (something MCE is NOT) and is very close to the look and feel of MCE....so you can try it out today.

The thing with MCE is that it's designed as an all-in-one bundle with the PC you buy so that it takes the headache of setting up an HTPC out of the users hands and simplfies everything.

WMCE will run by remote, the HTPC comes with IR buit-in and a Haupaggue PVR card ready to go.

Also DVD decoders are all in place.

You can piece-meal a WMCE style pc for less cash in my opinion and not be tied to a particular software or hardware manufacturer.

Does MCE give you something XP doesn't ....well yes and no....they serve different masters with different focus. XP is designed for the pc user in the conventional way. MCE brings XP into the living room but strips out alot of the unecessary PC style functions that would bog down the typical user looking to use MCE like a DVD player(namely Networking type functions). The Front-End is designed as such to have a specific purpose.... to make the pc easy to use in a very limited way (hence the MY Movie, My Photos, My Music, My Radio stc... type choices on the main GUI).

Chris, when you havea spare minute give this a read....it should answer your questions about MCE 2005

http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=mce2k5_1

[aud19]

Yeah unless you REALLY want the GUI/"functionality" that comes with WMCE I'd do something like Gord reccomended :T

From what I understand, as user friendly etc as MCE is, it's also a fair bit more limited for some of us folks who'd like more freedom to do our own thing

[Trevor Schell]

Did you get a case yet?
I really like this one!

[aud19]

DVine cases are the shizznit! :yesnod: :lol:

[Chris D]

Looking at the DVine manufacturer's website, it looks like some cases are released as complete sets that include the display hookup and everything. Some are just put out as the shell, not including many hookups or the remote control others include. So I'm a little hesitant about the case I found, as I didn't see any remote in it or most other things.

[Gordon Moore]

A PVR card (like the Haupaggue PVR-250), A DVB (sat card) Card come with remotes and IR units. The case itself doesn't have to offer a remote + IR....you could sneak it in with "other" hardware. Same goes for a VFD (vacuum flourescent display) it's an option that can be added later if you want. There are 3rd party manufacturers (Bing got one) so even if the case manufacturer doesn't off a VFD, you could always add it later.

Chris another really cool case that's coming from Aussie land is this one:



A nice competitor to the DIGN (DVine/Ahanix) case....you can get one with the TFT screen (that's a touch screen none the less) with just a VFD (which is optional)

http://www.pcalchemy.com/index.php/page/2/sort/3a/cName/htpc-cases

The TFT Touchscreen case is 599.00 which actually isn't too bad and ideal for projector owners who want ot save their bulbs.

The X-11 is 249.00, the VFD and IR is a 70.00 option.

[Chris D]

Wow, Gord, I LOVE the first case. That would be a sweet addition.

[Gordon Moore]

Me too....I'm pretty sweet on it. Plus one 80mm fan is a much nicer option than 2 -60mm.

It just looks like a quality piece of gear that would integrate very nicely on an AV rack.

[AndrewM]

Does MCE give you something XP doesn't ....well yes and no....they serve different masters with different focus. XP is designed for the pc user in the conventional way. MCE brings XP into the living room but strips out alot of the unecessary PC style functions that would bog down the typical user looking to use MCE like a DVD player(namely Networking type functions). The Front-End is designed as such to have a specific purpose.... to make the pc easy to use in a very limited way (hence the MY Movie, My Photos, My Music, My Radio stc... type choices on the main GUI).

I haven't played with MCE2005 yet, but the original MCE was built on XP Pro and had all the same options/functions that it had. Granted the MCE part of it used up enough system resources that using other functions wasn't going to be a good idea, but they were still there.

MCE is great if you want a solution that is already "discovered"/"proven" (whatever you want to call it), the hardware specs, the remote, etc are all "knowns" and easily found and purchased, you can essentially buy all the parts for it, install it all and have it up and running in a couple of hours. Of course as mentioned, the ability to do any kind of custom work is gone (which can be good or bad), 3rd party add-ons are limited/non-existant, so you are really limited.

Edit Damn, had to stick my foot in my mouth. There are networking options stripped out of MCE, notably the ability to join a windows domain (I don't run a domain at home, so I never explored that first hand), my apologies for the wrong info.

Andrew

[aud19]

Gordo, that's the case you posted in TTP a while back right? That thing's even sweeter than the Ahanix cases but it sho' ain't cheap :lol:

[Gordon Moore]

Gordo, that's the case you posted in TTP a while back right?

One and the same

[aud19]

One and the same

I want one!! :drool: :yesnod:

[Chris D]

Yeah, that's by far the best and coolest case I've found so far. I've been researching it some on its website and forums, and it looks like just the thing. Already people are designing display GUI's for it that can show weather, time, etc, and it's not even officially released yet.