Patiently Looking Ahead

**JonMarsh** · 08 July 2002, 22:54 Monday

Hi George,

I suspect projectors will be a lot like PC's; there will always be a "sweet spot" price wise which will be a popular mix of brightness, features, resolution, contrast, etc. My suspicion is that it will remain in the $6K to 12K MSRP range, with street prices from 15 to 25% lower.

Even now, there are some interesting "budget" deals, with some good particular features, like the Plus Piano, yet compared with even a Sony 10HT with color correcting filters, it's obvious why it is a less expensive unit. Of course, one could say the same thing about a G90, too! :LOL:

The most intriguing new projectors are the 1280X720 DLP's, with direct pixel mapping; I think the new Marantz may be the best example.

VP-12S1

OPTICS
Texas Instruments Digital Light Processing™ Technology
High Definition (1280 x 720), DMD™ Semiconductor
Newly Developed Custom Optics by Minolta
16:9 Aspect Ratio
1200:1 Contrast Ratio
700 ANSI Lumens Brightness
Brightness Uniformity: 90 %
No Halo Effect
Lens Up/Down Shift Construction
Short Throw Distance: 80"-8.6ft , 100"-10.9ft
Sealed Optical Path
No Light Leakage (Double Sealed Cabinet Structure)
Extremely Quiet (Noise Cancelling Construction, Sealed Color Wheel Motor)
Long Life Lamp (Average 2000 Hours)
ELECTRONICS & SOFTWARE
Full Digital device
Video processing using Faroudja® processing with DCDi™ enhancement
3-2 pulldown Progressive Scan Film Detection
10-Bit Digital Gamma Processing
Horizontal and Vertical Keystone Correction
Accepts all modes of NTSC, PAL, SECAM, and ATSC including HDTV
IEEE 1394 DV Format adapted for Digital Video Camera
Playback
PC Signal VGA to XGA
Three Picture Modes: Theater, Standard, Dynamic
Nine Picture Memories
4 Aspect Modes
Three Color Temperatures
Black Level Selection
System Control through RS232C
Two triggers for Powered Screen Control
Economy Lamp Mode

Biggest shortcoming? Rated at 700 lumens, when properly color calibrated may be somewhat less; will still probably be brighter than the 400Q, but probably won't match a 10HT or 11Ht, though obviously black levels should be better- but then there's the rumored 12HT.

As Stalin once said, "there's a certain quality all it's own to quantity", and having had the opportunity to tweak up a Sony PX10 locally for HTPC use, I can say having something close to a real 1400 lumens after color calibration does have a certain impact..... and that was a $4500 unit from Projector People. Not the last word in black levels, though with some reasonable bias lighting behind the screen, you didn't notice that much.

Sadly, the RPTV's based on the 1280X720 DLP chips seem to have some serious shortcomings (bad color calibration, poor scalers, etc), both in the case of Mitsubishi and Pansonic. For $12K or thereabouts, the customer deserves more.

In two years, who knows?

-Jon

Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

**P-Dub** · 09 July 2002, 12:50 Tuesday

I will be following the projector market closely over the next few years.

As I've stated before, I feel quite lucky to have been able to experiece what a 'cheap' projector can do, a Sanyo PLCS-SW10. A basic 700 Lumens, 250:1 contrast, 800x600 projector. Seeing how well this projector performed in less than ideal conditions has provided me with a benchmark and realistic expectation on what to expect in my future projector purchase.

I beleive that the projector market will breakdown into 3 distict markets. The entry level will be characterized by the US$2,000 models. These will be in the 1,000 lumens, and 300:1 contrast range. The next level will be the US$5,000 where you'll see 2,000 lumens and close to 1,000:1 contrast ratios. Then the ultimate projectors over US$5k.

As to specific models, for the under US$2,000, I had my eye on the Sanyo PLCS-XW15, $1,714 a 800 lumens, 300:1 contrast, 1024x768 resolution projector or the Panasonic PTAE-100, 700 lumens, 500:1 contrast, 858x484 projector for C$3299, or US$2,145.

In the next range, I'd be looking at the Sanyo PLC-XP21N for US$4,500, 2,500 lumens, 700:1 contrast ratio, 1024x768 resolution.

I think that Marantz fits in my over US$5k category, as well as the new Sony. As much as I'd love to have one of those, it just ain't gonna happen.

I agree with Jon, like computers, projectors are going to get better and cheaper over the years. What is really exciting is the budget market. Just think how several years ago, that kind of performance required a hefty investment. Now it's not much more than a quality HDTV RPTV. As long a my old 27" set holds out, my next purchase will be one of those budget projectors in the next couple of years. Then I'll wait for the technology to improve and upgrade to a nicer projector in the following 5 years.

Paul

There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that can't.

**George Bellefontaine** · 09 July 2002, 12:55 Tuesday

Yeah, Jon, I've read several reviews on both the Marantz and the Sharp, and they seem quite similar, except Marantz is more expensive. I have yet to see DLP so it is hard to comment , but it does seem that DLP is being favored over lcd, especially in the "better blacks" department. But like you say, who knows what will be out there in two years.

Paul, thanks for commenting. I am interested to see where you finally go in front projection.

My Homepage!

**Clive** · 09 July 2002, 13:45 Tuesday

Paul I saw above where the plus Piano DLP was mentioned. From what I've been told, is that, FPs like the Piano does not accept 1080i or can project the aspect ratio of 16:9. Would you be looking at all these FPs with both aspect ratio capablilities? Does it really matter though if outboard >line doublers are used?

CLIVE

HEY!! Why buy movie tickets when you can own a Theater?

**P-Dub** · 09 July 2002, 14:23 Tuesday

Clive: I haven't really thought that far ahead. Well kinda but not in as much detail. From the spec sheet's all the projectors that I'm looking at say they will accept a 1080i signal. Now in reality the only piece of equipment that will be providing the 1080i signal will be my Xbox. I don't plan on getting HDTV anytime soon. Now wrt aspect ratio control I think that might be something I should look for, but I know the Sanyo has a 'squeeze' feature, I don't know if that's the same thing as aspect ratio contrl. That's why I say I'm lucky to have played with the projector from work. Seeing that it had this feature and it worked as expected, leads me into the Sanyo camp as the contender for my future dollars. Now I still have lots of research to do and have no idea what benefits an outboard line double would provide.

Here's my timeline:

2002 - no projector, continue research
2003 - continue research
2004 - ideally purchase projector
2005 - enjoy projector
2006 - enjoy projector
2007 - enjoy projector, replace bulb? begin research
2008 - enjoy projector, research,
2009 - enjoy projector, purchase new

As you can see I'm thinking pretty far out into the future. I figure I would seriously consider HDTV in around the 2009 time frame, as I'm not looking to jump into HDTV right away. Plus by that time frame we may see some form of the HD DVD standard in 2009.

My needs currently and for the 2-5 years are the enjoyment of my current DVD collection in 480P. Then enjoyment of my Xbox upto 1080i. I've seen Xbox though a composite connection projected onto my back wall and that was such a blast.

I can only imagine that the S-Video and component output would be so much better when projected on a 72" screen.

George: I'm interested on what I finally get as well.

Oh WRT which technology I like, it's a toss up between LCD and DLP. DLP is just sexier, but I have not seen a demo of any unit that I can afford. LCD is more advanced in the technology cycle and I've been quite happy with what I have seen. So it will ultimately come down to an actual demo of a DLP projector that I can afford and the expectations of LCD improvements on moving up the Sanyo product line.

I'm not sure if I updated people on the Toshiba projector that I had considered purchasing. What stopped me was the lack of reviews on the unit. The spec sheet was quite impressive, but that is only one story. I like to read reviews by actual people. Sure some may have a bias, but I can factor that into the review. I don't take "I bought one and I'm happy." as an adequate review. So seeing as that's about the extent of the online reviews, I decided to pass.

Paul

There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that can't.

**JonMarsh** · 09 July 2002, 14:23 Tuesday

I mentioned the Plus Piano specifically because it uses the implementation of the TI 848X600 chip which can be configured to do 848X480, a 16:9 resolution.

All of the existing fixed panel projectors have to down convert 1920X1080i HDTV; there's no reason the Plus Piano couldn't do this, excpe for the cost limitations of the scaler chip.

And yes, I'm a 16X9 fan since the introduction of DVD; that's why I had my 400Q; I don't think I'd ever buy a projector without 16X9. Of course, if the resolution in 4:3 is high enough to support DVD without down conversion, through a VGA input, that will work OK too. But this means XGA or better; 1280X1024, such as my bedroom 29" monitor provides, and my desktops, works pretty well.

Regards,

Jon

Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

**Clive** · 09 July 2002, 16:09 Tuesday

JonMarch sorry I just did a quick looksy at the new Plus Piano site and the New HE 3200 does include a Silicon Image progressive scan converter built-in, with all the inputs 480p, 720p and 1080i. Which should now make this unit a good contender. Thanx!

CLIVE

HEY!! Why buy movie tickets when you can own a Theater?

**George Bellefontaine** · 10 July 2002, 12:46 Wednesday

Yeah, you beat me to the punch, Uncle Clive. But the thing to rerember, though the new Piano accepts 1080i, it will downconvert to 480p, which may not be all that bad.

My Homepage!

**Brandon B** · 10 July 2002, 16:56 Wednesday

Reviews I've seen (projectorcentral.com) said HD looked pretty good on the new Piano 3200.

Also, AVS is selling some B stock JVC DLA G15's for $6800 with non-new lamps. That's ~$2K less than average street price new. Unfortunately it's about $2K more than my limit.

THese have no DVI, but other than that, they are pretty spiffy, if a little dated.

BB

**Clive** · 10 July 2002, 21:30 Wednesday

Today I bumped into The Plus piano at Trutone in Mississauga. I could not believe how tiny the unit was. The HT guide magazine has more square footage and I carry around change in my pockets that weights more than the darn thing 8O

I am also extremely interested in going the FP route. Just thinking about how much space I'd save and that larger picture, I am beginning to get the bug, really in a big way!! Will be fun.

CLIVE

HEY!! Why buy movie tickets when you can own a Theater?

**George Bellefontaine** · 11 July 2002, 13:46 Thursday

Will be fun

I guarantee it, Uncle Clive.

Well, it looks like I've screwed up the quote thing again. :roll:

My Homepage!

**Markj** · 12 July 2002, 00:26 Friday

I am ready to get a FP now, but I don’t have the cash. In mean time I am watching for the new Dwin and hoping it is all it should be. Also the new hd2 chips should start showing up at the end of this year in some FPs and I am hearing conflicting reports on how much an improvement they will achieve. Some are saying that the chip will only increase the performance a little because it’s the entire projector performance that will set the performance. Others are saying that the chip will increase the lumens and contrast ratio significantly. I think in five years digital projectors should be out standing and reasonably priced! For some one like me that does not have a FP right now, decisions can be a little confusing on what when and who to buy. It seems that manufacturers are starting to take HT seriously and making good improvements with each new product.

I have my new Firehawk installed and waiting.

Patiently Looking Ahead

Patiently Looking Ahead

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