Red Technology RedRay 4K projector!

[Hdale85]

Ok so browsing the net the other day I learned of this projector. It's completely laser powered, true 4k, does 3D in true 4k and uses passive glasses. Projects 4k 3D images to both eyes together so you don't experience the 3D sickness/eyestrain/brain strain. It's going to be just under 10k, which seems like a lot but at the same time the light engine will last at least 25k hours, so I'm not sure if it's really that bad? I'm strongly considering saving some bones up and dropping it on one of these as I can see this lasting us a long time! So here's the info that's out there on it and some video's.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/16/redray-4k-cinema-laser-hands-on/

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This projector should easily outperform the current 4K offering which is a Sony Projector costing twice what this will cost.

[Kevin P]

Sounds sweet. I would wait a few years for the price to drop, then get one for say $3-5K. The 25K hour lifespan is nice, no expensive bulbs to replace.

[impala454]

Dang, nice. But didn't some 8K standard just get approved? Or is the 4K another stepping stone between those?

[Hdale85]

Not sure, 4k hasn't even made it mainstream really quite yet, I can't imagine we'd see 8k anytime soon.

Kevin I'm not sure we'll see another laser based 4k projector in the next few years under this price. Honestly I think if Red was all into the money business they would of marketed this for 30-40k as they could of easily done so. But they are more for mainstreaming their product and selling it to the masses which I appreciate greatly. Like I said, the main reason I'd consider spending this much is I could easily see this lasting me 10 years and me being completely happy with that.

[impala454]

Oh I'm positive 8K won't be any time soon, just saying I saw somewhere that the 8K standard has been approved for TV use by 2020 or something. My concern with getting a 4K screen would be having source material to fully use it.

[Hdale85]

Well just like pre 1080p days, there was a lot of upscaling going on and it improved quality a lot with a decent scaler, actually Red is also producing the RedRay player, and offering 4k movie downloads and stuff. Their 4k+ camera's are actually pretty reasonably priced compared to the 1080p film equipment of today as well. So I don't see 4k being that big of a problem for transitioning as you can always downscale digital sources for 1080p and so on which the RedRay player does.

http://www.red.com/products/red-ray

[impala454]

Interesting... thing looks pretty crazy. Though the thought of rebuying movies again hurts my brain. I also wonder about the movies that were shot digitally... I wonder if they'd be just SOL in any kind of "rescanning" attempts. Lots of interesting things to think about.

[Hdale85]

Well I'm sure it won't be long before we see blu-ray players that will upscale to 4k, or there's always the HTPC I'm not sure re-purchasing films will be needed honestly. 1080p should scale even better then 480p did since there is more information available.

[Chris D]

Cool, I'll see if I can find it at CEDIA next week.

[aud19]

I was actually surprised when I read down to the sub $10k price you stated Chris. Like Dougie I was expecting a $20k+ price. That's actually a decent price if the actual performance is good (contrast, black levels, colour accuracy etc).

[Hdale85]

Yeah I agree I was quite surprised, I could easily seem them marketing this for much higher and making way more profit, but I think their goal is mass adoption which I'm very envious of and applaud them for, I wish all companies thought like that.

I imagine contrast and black levels will be some of the best we've ever seen just because of what laser technology is capable of. No hard numbers have been released but we're getting pretty close to the end of the year now so I expect we'll see some soon. They also say Jason that the colors are supposed to be quite accurate and need no calibration, I have a bit of a hard time accepting this simply because the screen can effect a calibration quite a bit due to color differences. But I'm not entirely sure on this?

Chris if you do see it then I very much want to hear your impressions! From comments I've seen people have said 3D on it is like a completely new experience and like no other 3D out there.

[aud19]

Might actually get me to change my tune on 3D as well if the claims are true.

[Hdale85]

Chris, I don't see them in the who's exhibiting list on the Cedia website. Not to say maybe someone else might use their products in a demo? I'm not sure though. Be nice if they were there

[madmac]

Walk away from 3D until the glasses are no longer necessary.....and even then......when it looks reasonably bright and realistic!!!.

[Hdale85]

I don't mind wearing glasses for 3D, but I don't want to see flickering or experience eyestrain, and if possible I don't want to use shutter glasses but rather comfortable light weight glasses, this is all of that.

Here is info/review on the RedRay player.

http://nofilmschool.com/2011/04/red-demonstrates-red-ray-4k-playback-system/

[Hdale85]

Here's a message one of the head guys at Red said recently

I haven’t posted much lately… been pretty busy getting ready to deliver the future… again.

REDcolor3 and REDgamma3 are close… we have had a few tweaks. Expect a firmware release for EPIC, Scarlet and the RED ONE very soon. Also expect immediate support for REDCINE-X Pro and the SDK.

The Dragon sensor is in full development. It will be the dream come true. Trust me.

2012 will be the year of EPIC. So many features are being released that are shot on EPIC it is hard to keep track. I guess this is the year that RED sheds the “scam” moniker. Coming up… The Amazing Spiderman, Total Recall, Prometheus, The Great Gatsby, and The Hobbit… among many others.

Our production facility in Irvine is something that we are so proud of… it breaks all the rules and gives hope to a future beyond China.

Our 3D projector has been seen by many of the top dogs in the industry. It appears, according to them, to be the single best and only way to view 3D… in the home or theater. This is the one. It is a huge leap. Maybe the difference between 3D dying and 3D being mandatory.

REDray is real. After a long development process… REDray will be released this year. It will be the highest quality image with the lowest data rate ever achieved in the history of man. We fully expect it to be the gold standard going forward.

We love and appreciate our customers. And it is paramount that we don’t disappoint them. We won’t.

RED began in 2006 as a garage operation. We had 3 employees. Today there are over 500. Next year there will be over 1000.

Are you with us?

Jim

The bolded area are movies being shot in 4K already, and there are lots that previously have been shot on 4k hardware as well, so the content wouldn't take much to be released in 4k And since the bitrate is lower then 1080p blu-ray it may even be able to fit on the same media, or it'll just be all digital.

Also here is a thread over at curtpalmes forums.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26571

[Ovation]

Well I'm sure it won't be long before we see blu-ray players that will upscale to 4k, or there's always the HTPC I'm not sure re-purchasing films will be needed honestly. 1080p should scale even better then 480p did since there is more information available.

There are already AVRs that upscale to 4K, and, of course, any 4K display (PJ or otherwise) will have its own internal upscaler.

[Hdale85]

Yeah I saw that today as I'm having issues with my Onkyo receiver and was researching new ones lol.

[Chris D]

Dougie, this may be what you're thinkiing of with a new standard.

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/super-hi-vision-8k-standard

[Hdale85]

Yeah I don't expect to see 8K anything for a long time. Although I do think it would be fantastic for large movie theaters, but I think 4k will look fantastic there as well.

[impala454]

Haha I like the "except for NASA" part in that article Chris.

I'm just discouraged by the idea of rebuying movies. Ugh. And yeah I realize they'll upscale or whatever but that kinda defeats the point of buying the display. I know I'll at least want to rebuy my favorites. Geez how many times am I going to buy LOTR? I swear by the time I'm dead of old age I'm guessing I'll have bought those movies about twelve times.

My thing with displays is having a good size/resolution ratio. What I really like about this 4K and 8K talk is it will enable some great resolution on some very large screens. So I can go and get a 92" display (whether it's a PJ or whatever else) and still have some miniscule pixels at a reasonable seating distance.

I guess the other good thing is it kinda makes me more cautious about buying something new. My 61" Sammy DLP is about six years old and still running strong. I haven't even had to replace the lamp yet. So maybe having the thought that 4K TVs are not too far off, it'll make me stay conservative and just keep that DLP going. Same with my receiver, a Denon 2307CI. Great receiver, although it doesn't decode the latest codecs. And since I have an external amp it's not really doing much except changing sources for me, but it's five years old and I wouldn't mind replacing it. Again this 4K stuff might make me wait a bit to buy new gear.

[Hdale85]

I don't think we'll see a consumer demand for 8k for a long time, maybe not even by 2025 honestly. 4k should look amazing even on 140" screens which much larger then that is pretty hard to do in a home theater.

Also Chuck, even with upscaling on larger screens you should see a big benefit just from the amount of pixels on the screen.

[Dean McManis]

I think that there is a diminishing demand when it comes to 8K projectors mostly because of limitations of most people's eyesight relative to higher resolution on a smaller screen. In earlier test trials between 480p and 1080i many viewers could not discern a difference on a 50" display when viewing from 15' away.

Of course with bigger screens, better content, and other tech improvements like better contrast and black level 1080p video is clearly better looking.

But I have to wonder when viewed on a 50" screen from 15' away, will anyone really see a huge improvement of 4K video over 1080p, let alone 8K video?
And would there be any visible improvement for 1080p upconverted to 4K?

Outside of DVDs the bandwidth for 4K (and 8K) has got to be HUGE so broadcast 4K (or 8K) would seem to be problematic, especially with 3D material. And I'm also not eager to replace my DVD collection once again with 4K media.

Still, I'm excited to hear about this new REDray technology, and especially a 3D, 4K, laser projector for $10K! :T

[Hdale85]

Well the 4k stuff from redray was running at lower bitrate then 1080p bluray.

Technically speaking 15ft from a 50" screen is way outside the max detail threshold so likely no you wouldn't see it.. I'm not sure we will see 4k on displays smaller then 60" or so. I think projection is going to benefit the most from 4k by a long shot.

[Dean McManis]

1080p Bluray bit rate is already way too high for most networks, and I'd wonder how well the compression algorythms will do in trying to maintain the resolution, sound, and overall picture quality. Certainly bandwidth technologies are always improving, so it will be viable some day. But it would be tough as an early adopter justifying the move to 4K (or especially 8K) with today's limitations (outside of DVD media).

[Hdale85]

Well they were saying full 4k resolution at 20Mbit/s which is quite a bit lower then Blu-ray, In most area's now you can get a connection speed pretty close to that, and in many area's much higher then that. Even out here in smaller area's of Ohio they are getting 50Mbit connections and what not.

[Dean McManis]

Unfortunately relative to connectivity I have nowhere near that kind of bandwidth through DSL, but if there was great super-HD/4K content made available I would have yet another reason to upgrade to a faster connection.
As with HDTV, ultimately having lots of eye-popping, 4K content available will drive the demand for the technology.