New LED powered DLP Projectors annouced by Texas Instruments

[brendon]

Just spotted this link on an Australian forum. Thanks to Muzzer on DTV

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,147251-c,portableprojectors/article.html

more info here and pictures

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/news/061808dlp/

Looks very interesting no bulbs ,no colour wheel,wider colour gamut,no fans required and able to output 500-1000 lumens
Coming to HT models first .First models late 2008.
Brendon

[Ovation]

This would put DLPs back on my shopping list when I decide to replace my current one (not any time soon, though, I hope) as rainbows would not be a factor.

[Hdale85]

Well Samsung has LED DLP RPTV's and I've heard that some people still see rainbows. Also there are some concerns about uneaven bulb ware (some LED's change different colors then others as they wear or maybe changing different brightnesses) I'm not sure but I would probably hold out for a while thats what I decided to do with the Samsung RPTV's. That and they were overly bright

[brendon]

It will be interesting to see what price point the first ones of these units will be released at wether they try to compete in the Epson TW2000UB range ,JVC RS2 lcos or very high end DLP price points.
I know new tech is always at a premium but cant help thinking Texas Instruments has lost a heap of market share to the greatly improved LCD and LCOS camps and needs to shift some units.
I am currently running a 3 year old Epson TW600 LCD on its third bulb in a room big enough to take a DLP with its characteristic placement restrictions and might hold off a bit longer before going to a 1080 PJ just to see what this will do to the market.
I had been thinking about something in the infocus IN83 or Optoma HD 803 league.
Its certainly will spice things up.
Brendon

[Kevin P]

I have to wonder, how long do the LEDs last and how expensive are they to replace?

I would expect they would last a lot longer than the halide bulbs PJs use now, and probably cheaper as well, but they're probably expensive high-power LEDs.

[George Bellefontaine]

I'm a little surprised LEDs are coming to front projection this soon. I didn't think they had found a way to make them bright enough for FP. But it will be interesting to see the price and then how well they hold up after they hit the market. 500 to 1000 lumens would probably limit potential buyers to those who have total light control.

[aud19]

I've been waiting for these!! If nothing else they should help drive the prices of other tech's down

[Hdale85]

Have to see I suppose. And yes the LED bulbs are supposed to last like 100k hours? If this is true who knows as the RPTV units are still pretty new as well.

[Ovation]

Well, if rainbows are still present, then no sale for me. I'm extremely happy with my Sony AW15 LCD (nearly 700 hours on first bulb) and would not hesitate to get something like it again (1080p, though). If these LED PJs drive down the price of LCD and LCoS, so much the better.

[Dean McManis]

Here's some interesting DLP product info from Infocomm.
Hopefully it's not already posted.

InfoComm is jumping off to a big start this year. TExas Instruments DLP unveils the astonishing 3D Projector that is sure to change what we consider a home theater viewing experience. They are are also introducing the world to the benefits of a lamp-free projector. No more over-heating and dust to worry about.

Texas Instruments (TI) today at InfoComm DLP® Products introduced the industry's first home theater lamp-free projector that utilizes a PhlatLight™ LED light source and a BrilliantColor™ chipset. This technology demo delivers a superior 1080p picture for which DLP technology is known, while eliminating maintenance costs such as lamp replacements and filter changes required by some competing projector products. Multiple DLP customers have plans to develop DLP lamp-free LED-based projectors, including Optoma, with units expected to ship in late 2008. Similar to the deployment of DLP Product's now popular BrilliantColor technology, the solid-state, lamp-free innovation will first be incorporated into home theater units and proliferate through corporate and education product lines thereafter.

DLP also introduced the first 3-D front projector with Norwegian manufacturer, projectiondesign, and the brand new pico-projector stand-alone product with Optoma. The 3-D portable high-resolution active stereoscopic single-chip projector is designed for the demanding visualization, simulation and entertainment environments in applications that have not been able to achieve this level of performance in the past, while the pico product uses a pioneering DLP Pico™ chipset for mobile applications.

Benefits of Lamp-free

Due to the inherent switching speed of the DLP chip and advancements in LEDs from Luminus, a leader in LED manufacturing, consumers will benefit from the increased picture quality, reliability and value found in this new projector category. The reflective nature of the mirrors on the DLP chip allow more light to reach the screen resulting in a 50% increase in color gamut range producing more than 200 trillion colors and a contrast ratio in excess of 500,000:1. The proprietary combination of LED illumination, coupled with DLP technology elevates picture quality to a new level while eliminating the traditional projection lamp.

In addition to the expanded color and contrast performance, the illumination system has an incredibly long life and offers up to 30% lower power usage and, most significantly, hundreds of dollars in savings from lamp purchases.

Due to the sealed DLP optics, DLP projectors are inherently prepared to withstand dusty environments and unlike projectors based on other technologies; do not require a filter to protect the optics. Most DLP projectors are filter-free. This important value attribute will remain true with new lamp-free DLP projectors, eliminating potential costly filter cleaning and replacements required by other technologies.

DLP is leveraging strengths from its other leading product lines for the new lamp-free projectors. Since 2006, lamp-free DLP HDTVs with LED-based illumination systems have been available from Samsung. To date, nearly 150,000 of these units have shipped.

World's first DLP 3-D Front Projector Product

The F10 AS3D is designed for the demanding scientific visualisation, simulation and entertainment environments. A full 120 Hz refresh rate enables flicker-free 3-D image. The F10 AS3D features a resolution of 1,400 x 1,050 pixels, and it is fully compatible with 1080p inputs. It is also compatible with both IR transmitted and DLP® Link 3-D shutter glasses. The F10 AS3D can be found on the projectiondesign booth, N5541 at InfoComm.

World's first DLP Pico-Projector Product

Optoma has announced plans to build a miniature stand-alone projector using the DLP Pico™ chipset. Product is expected to be available in limited distribution in Europe and Asia in late 2008 with a worldwide launch planned for 2009. There will be a demo at the DLP booth of this hand-held projector displaying composite video from a mobile business device."
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I really do not see how there are supposedly rainbows with the LED light source being stable, and no color wheel being used.

Having a LED light source is one of the elements that I have been waiting for before I upgrade to my next front projector. Seeing that many new carmakers are now using LED lighting for both headlights and tail lights, I'd say that they must have gotten some good light output out of the LEDs. And it's well known that most likely the LEDs will last for tens of thousands of hours (meaning the life of the projector). And for me that's a big thing because then on top of having quieter fans and less heat, I will have no guilt in how much that I use the projector, thinking about how many hours that I have on the bulb.

Personally, I do not think that it has been this long of a wait to move to LED bulbs because of technological difficulties like light output or even light dispersion. I think that (as with LED flashlights) the manufacturers were simply unwilling to give up the very profitable section of their business that is pricey replacement bulbs.
So we only saw one or two LED powered RPTVs, and so far the only LED powered FPTVs were pricey, tiny, battery-powered, SVGA units.

I am also excited about the 3-D projectors, although this market will also be limited initially to scientific (read highly-profitible) markets. But now Ive seen several LCD flat screens that are coming out soon with 3-D capability, mostly for gaming.
And there is a new push for 3-D movies in several theaters, so there is the potential for 3-D HDTV in the coming years (which is the next-big-HT-thing to me).

The Pico DLP setup looks interesting to me too for iPod and mobile gaming setup on the go. I only hope for two things with these new mini-projectors.
1) that they have at least XGA resolution and 2) that in addition to battery power, that they offer a 110V plug-in mode that offers increased brightness (larger, better image). :T

[Hdale85]

I'm not sure about the rainbows its just I've heard lots of people say they can still see rainbows on the LED Samsung. I never saw them though.

[Dean McManis]

Yeah. I've also looked at the Samsung with a critical eye for rainbows, and I never saw any. Which I attributed to the LED engine.

[Landspeeder]

My .02:
I see the rainbow. Every DLP I have looked at proved to be the Leprechaun’s plane of choice. Until the Samsung LED (with no color wheel) was introduced, I could watch but 30 minutes before going nuts, despite the image itself looking awesome. I have watched a few of these with no ill, and many pristine effects.
Like super expensive audio gear, I think some people 'expect' to see a rainbow after hearing ‘DLP’, despite its being physically impossible for them (rainbows) to be present (once again, no color wheel spinning around). Just because you pay $300 dollars for a ‘hand laid’ all foil capacitor does not mean it is better (and may in fact be worse) than a $30 Solen. The image is superb, and the LED’s should last a very long time compared to the ancient house heaters used for light sources on more antiquated models.

[Landspeeder]

Something else I forgot to mention:
Incandescent bulbs (aka metal on fire, one step up from cavemen shadow pictures: wood on fire) produce an amazing amount of lumens. BUT the color is all wrong. You must pass the light through a filter (pretty much polarized sun glass lens), which removes ½ the lumens available for your picture! LED’s can be created to produce a pure frequency. This means that they can output (to your screen) 100% of the lumens they create.
A 2000 lumen (old school) projector puts out maybe 1000 lumens to the screen. A 1000 lumen LED ‘bulb’ puts out 1000 lumens to the screen (plus has a long life, plus is cheap to produce, plus produces no heat, therefore needs no cooling fans (and is silent) and can be mounted in a concealed enclusure.)

[Ovation]

I, for one, welcome our new LED overlords. :lol:

The only reason I raised the issue of rainbows is because I've seen them on every DLP (front or rear) projector I've ever watched. I have not seen the Samsung LED, so I have no opinion on that type, except that if there are no rainbows, then DLP is back among the options for a future upgrade.

[PewterTA]

No Color wheel = no rainbows. As simple as that...unless your eye can detect something that happens once every 15,000 times a second.

I've seen the LED DLP RPTVs and they are very very nice. I've always loved DLP for the better picture quality (imo) and crispness. My DLP is the older lamp and only on really dark passages with stray bright light do I once in a while get the rainbow effect. I'd say it happens maybe once or twice a month that I notice it. Regular TV viewing doesn't happen much. So I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen much. The LED DLP engines don't produce them at all and have all the benefits of the regular DLP. Hence, I think, making it the technology to beat.

[impala454]

To those that see rainbows: What exactly do you see? Is it just one portion of the screen? Only in dark/light scenes? Just curious. I have had a Sammy 6187W color wheel DLP for a couple years now and haven't seen them.

[Ovation]

Depends on the PJ but I see them a lot (about 4-5 per minute, every minute on the better TVs and PJs I've seen--say with a 5x wheel or faster and about 6-8 per minute on a 4x wheel). My wife sees them as well. That's why I did not go with a DLP projector, mostly (the other reason is lens shift).

[Bent]

...unless your eye can detect something that happens once every 15,000 times a second.

You mean there are people who can actually "see" my wife change her mind?

[littlesaint]

You mean there are people who can actually "see" my wife change her mind?

:rf

:^x

[George Bellefontaine]

To those that see rainbows: What exactly do you see? Is it just one portion of the screen? Only in dark/light scenes? Just curious. I have had a Sammy 6187W color wheel DLP for a couple years now and haven't seen them.

Basically you see them when a scene is dark and you have some object against a light background. A candle flickering is a good example. To see them I have to work at it by shifting my eyes left to right and vice versa. I rarely see one without purposely trying to. My wife has never seen one yet and I have owned two dlp PJs in the past 6 years.

[Dean McManis]

Yeah, I've now owned 3 DLP projectors and only viewing a certain few high contrast movies, could I see rainbows on my first (2X color wheel) DLP projector, and I needed to shake my head violently back and forth to see the effect.

But some people are genuinely affected, having more sensitive eyes.
Like people who can visually see the 60Hz flicker of flourescent lights, which will give them a headache.
Generally though it has been less of a problem lately with faster, multiple-segment, color wheels. And now with LEDs an NO color wheels it shouldn't be an issue anymore.
But we will have to hear back from those really sensitive people actually looking at these new models. :T

[Landspeeder]

Fluorescent lights kill me. The 'rainbow' looks like a shimmering of.. something.... or like a wavering (almost a mirage effect). It makes me feel like I have just drunk 15 espressos, and a pot of Earl. Very disorienting, after awhile you feel like puking (and shortly after you do)

[Dean McManis]

I'm not sure that what you are seeing is actually DLP rainbows.
My experience with rainbows on earlier DLP projectors with slower color wheels, is that when there are very high contrast images (like a white wall with a dark black edge) then you move your head very quickly from side-to-side, and the slower color wheel can produce an image when the different colors hit different parts of your retina. The result is that you can see a little fringe color of red or blue or green sneaking out from the black edge of the white wall. 8O

This issue that you are seeing could easily be an effect of the color wheel on your sensitive eyes, but I wouldn't call it "rainbows".
Getting sick or tired from watching a low refresh rate on a CRT monitor, flourescent lights, or a slow color wheel DLP display is undeniably real, but it is relatively rare. :E Hopefully having DLP projectors that use LED lighting (and no color wheels) will give respite to those people who are affected. :T

[Landspeeder]

It's not a 'rainbow' that I see, but rather a waivering, or a... flickering. It's something I became very quickly to able to identifiy as a flight instructor. You are right, that the light spectrum at the edges tends to 'waiver.' Its like you should have a hard and crisp line, but instead have a 'liquid' line (which is 'liquid' due to vastly different colors).

In an airplane at sunrise or sunset, a pilot may encounter flicker vertigo. In the most rare of cases, flashing lights at certain frequencies can trigger seizures, nausea (this one includes me), convulsions, or unconsciousness.

[Landspeeder]

It almost like my eyes are tired and watery at night, and you see a bright light but the edges (or mirage waivering of the image) of light is being split into the wrong colors (almost like a prismatic event)...

Wow thats hard to put into words

[Dean McManis]

You did pretty well with the description.

I can imagine what you are seeing, and I'm glad that I don't have those issues with DLP.
Of course if I did, I definitely would NOT have bought 3 DLP projectors (so far).
Hopefully LED lighting will make DLP display viewing as enjoyable to watch for you as other display technologies.

As long as the projector manufacturers are willing to give up the profit of replacement bulbs there are going to be a great many benefits of moving to LED lighting.

[Landspeeder]

Agreed. I have seen a few of the samsung's with LED arrays... they look Awsome! And don't affect me poorly (as they have no physical means in which to do it). I have always prefered the DLP's except for their... negative side: 'rainbow'. This does not hold true on the Samsungs, and (assuming they don't use a color wheel), the new texas instruments flavors.

[Greybeard191]

I'm quite enthused by the concept of LED bulbs, but less so that they're appearing in DLP projectors. Hopefully this technology makes it to LCD and LCOS based units as well.

I'm somewhat sensitive to rainbows... I see them consistently on slower colour wheels, and rarely on faster ones (5X+).

What turned me off DLP's is that I see a "shimmer" in every single unit I've ever looked at, rear or front projection, old to most recent. It's almost like I can see the pixels swtiching on and off, although I know that's impossible. Tough to describe, but highly objectionable to me, enough to make a total no sale.

I have an OPPO 971H which does pretty good upconversion, delivering a pretty decent picture on the AE900U I eventually bought. I took the unit over to a friends who has a Samsung DLP TV about 4 months ago, as he was thinking of buying one (actually a 981) and wanted to see how it looked. He thought it was wonderful... I thought his screen was trying to crawl off the TV and escape across the floor. The OPPO was doing the upconversion to 720P (native resolution of the Samsung) via DVI/HDMI.

"It's alive"!!!!

There's some inherent noise or effect in DLP's that drives me nuts. And I see this same thing in every unit, even the newest 1080P versions.

GB

[wettou]

But some people are genuinely affected, having more sensitive eyes. Like people who can visually see the 60Hz flicker of flourescent lights, which will give them a headache.

Yes unfortunately I am one of those I hate fluorescent lights the new ones with solar light seem to be better but still.

Generally though it has been less of a problem lately with faster, multiple-segment, color wheels. And now with LEDs an NO color wheels it shouldn't be an issue anymore. But we will have to hear back from those really sensitive people actually looking at these new models. :T

I am looking forward to it between Laser and LED it will be interesting which produce the best picture I can't wait to see the JVC DLA RS3 with Laser and/or LED!!

[Dean McManis]

Samsung showed their SP-P400 LED projector at CES, and re-announced it again today as a real product. The MSRP is looking to be around $800, but it's limitations are 800X 600 resolution and 150 lumens brightness.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/07/24/samsung-releases-sp-p400-mini-projector-includes-a-price/

My guess is that the manufacturers do no want to lose the profit center of the projector replacement bulbs, so they are generally limiting the brightness and resolution of LED projectors.

For me at least 720p and 500 lumens is the minimum acceptable specs for any HT projector, or even business projector these days. And I do not care if the projector can run off of batteries or not.

TI's new DLP LED setup however supports 1400 X 1050 resolution, which would look great as long as the light output is decent. :T

[wettou]

TI's new DLP LED setup however supports 1400 X 1050 resolution, which would look great as long as the light output is decent.

It is only a question of time lasers and LED will replace bulbs in projectors may be not next year but in three to five years or so. And with 1080p resolution or even 4K-8K resolution