120 Hz Refresh Rate technology

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Chris D
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Dec 2000
    • 16877

    120 Hz Refresh Rate technology

    So when I first heard people talking about the 120 Hz refresh frame rate technology a while ago, I didn't put a lot of stock in it. Lots of new technologies come up, and many of them make small gains.

    What the refresh frame rate does is say how often the display updates its picture. A "low" refresh rate would update only a certain amount of times per second, say 24 frames per second. Right now 120 is the "highest" I know of.

    At CEDIA, JVC had a neat little display where their 120Hz TV's had a split display. The entire screen showed video scenes in 1080p, but on the left half, the TV showed what it looked like with a 120Hz refresh rate. The right side showed with a lower refresh rate. (I don't know how low, but at least 60Hz or lower) When the video scene was static with little or no motion, the picture on both sides looked exactly the same, with high resolution detail. But when the scene started to move, such as panning or if an object moved across the screen, what happened was AMAZING. The right side, with lower refresh rate, (which is what we've seen on all TV's up to now) clearly showed a jerky motion, with the detail of the moving object becoming slightly "blocky". It was like the resolution of the object dropped from 1080p to 480p or so, just because it started moving! The left side with 120Hz stayed nice and smooth, maintaining resolution and clarity through the motion. As an object panned from one side of the screen to the other, it looked completely different, but when the motion stopped, again, the entire screen looked the same at 1080p as a static image.

    I had no idea I had been seeing the lower rate in TV's, and was a bit skeptical. But since then, I've paid attention to motion scenes as I've watched video displays, even those at 1080p, and the jerky or blurred motion is there.

    So I just bought a new TV for my bedroom, and went with a brand new Samsung model, the LN-T4671F with a 120Hz refresh rate. Samsung has this thing called "120Hz Auto Motion Pllus". First, I went into the setup menu, and found that the TV has a "demo" mode, which interestingly enough, puts it into a split screen just like the JVC models did at CEDIA. My wife and I sat a tried it out during "Heroes" and "Chuck" tonight on NBC, and we could both tell the difference. Then, the setup menu allows you to choose "low", "medium", or "high" for the Auto Motion Plus. I set it on high, and again, was blown away.

    The motion was smooth, and made the detail of everything crystal clear. The show almost looked TOO clear and realistic. It was amazing. My wife and I both noticed that it was almost like people and things that moved were moving faster, like if you watch a video on 1.5x speed or something. The longer I watched, I noticed that during motion, there would be little edge artifcacts sometimes around things that moved. So I've dropped the setting to "medium", which seems to make the display look more natural. I don't know if it's still too much or not, though, I'll have to watch for a while and then see if I want to drop it to the "low" setting.

    But I'm definitely sold on 120Hz technology now, I tell you what. It's not just a trick, it's like going from standard definition to HD. It's something that you don't even know is there, or what's possible, until you see it. Very dramatic--highly recommended that everybody go into your local retailer and say, "can you put one of your 120Hz models into "demo" mode, so I can judge the difference?
    CHRIS

    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
    - Pleasantville
  • Alloroc
    Super Senior Member
    • Dec 2005
    • 2580

    #2
    Cool stuff Chris. That set has just been launched over here but have not seen it yet.

    I'd be interested to hear how does the the T compare to the F series? Also were you watching HD or SD Heroes etc. and finally, when you get your PS3 unpacked, I'd love to know how BluRay performs on the new set.

    Also, it the build quality any better between the T & F, not that the F is poor.

    Like you, now that the family room is sorted with the F, I want one for the Bedroom and was thinking of the Sony W3000 or the new T perhaps....
    Vincent.

    I don't want the world. I just want your half.

    Comment

    • Chris D
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Dec 2000
      • 16877

      #3
      Yeah, I'm still liking the F in my living room. (the "65" model, or since I bought it at Best Buy, the "66" model)

      (for everyone else that probably didn't know, I bought the previous model of the exact same Samsung TV in a 40" size 1-2 months ago for my living room. It's not outdated yet, really, it's still very much in stores)

      Of course, my new TV, the "71" model is better than the "66" model, but it's also a good bit more in price. I don't watch nearly as much TV in my living room as I do my theater or bedroom, so I'm comfortable with my purchase decisions.

      Now, there is actually an even BETTER Samsung model than my new bedroom TV, the "81" series. It also has a 120Hz refresh rate, but has an absolutely mind-blowing contrast ratio, something like 500,000:1. If price were no object, I'd buy two of those for my bedroom and living room, but if I remember right, it was something huge like another 30% in price over the "71" series. So again, I'm comfortable with what I bought.
      CHRIS

      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
      - Pleasantville

      Comment

      • Alloroc
        Super Senior Member
        • Dec 2005
        • 2580

        #4
        Here's the Samsung spec over here....



        Costs : €3700 - with current xchange rate that's over $5k!!!!!

        I cannot wait to see this set!
        Vincent.

        I don't want the world. I just want your half.

        Comment

        • Blackman
          Junior Member
          • Oct 2007
          • 2

          #5
          I looked at a Sony model the other day (100Hz), Yes they are not bad but sometimes I think it looks to good or slightly artificial. What do you think? do these 100 or 120 Hz refresh tv's refresh the same frame or is it simulated?.

          Comment

          • Chris D
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Dec 2000
            • 16877

            #6
            Well, Samsung says that the "120Hz Auto Motion Plus" on mine does additional interpolation, not just duplication of frames. So if on one frame an object is the far left of the screen, and the next frame it's on the far right, the new frame will place it in the middle, not just duplicate the far left.

            So far, it's looking pretty good, but I'm still tweaking the options to make it look as natural as possible. Yes, there is some artificiality to it, that you have to work to eliminate.
            CHRIS

            Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
            - Pleasantville

            Comment

            • aud19
              Twin Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2003
              • 16706

              #7
              On tidbit that seems to have been left out about 120Hz refresh rates: both film (24fps) and video (30fps) go in to nice, equal values with 120Hz :T :B
              Jason

              Comment

              • Chris D
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Dec 2000
                • 16877

                #8
                Roger that...
                CHRIS

                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                - Pleasantville

                Comment

                • maseline_98
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2005
                  • 317

                  #9
                  This is an older thread, but I'd thought I revive it when I saw my buddies new samsung. He has the LN-T4671F and when I saw halo 3 on it(via HDMI), I was absolutely blown away by it. This is the first of the 120 hz HDTV, I've seen(would like to see the new xbr4 or xbr5), and see how it compares. Does anybody have info, but it makes me think I should have waited another 1.5 years when I got my sony kds-a2000 ...

                  Sony kds-60a2000\Panasonic BD-55k\XBOX 360 Premium(20gig)Slingbox\Xbox(flashed) running XBMC
                  Emotiva UMC-1\Emotiva XPA-5\Klipsch (2)RF-7s with DeanG xover upgrade, RC-7 with DeanG xover upgrade, (2)RS-7s\SVS 20-39PC+

                  _____________________________
                  “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” - Einstein

                  Comment

                  • Chris D
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Dec 2000
                    • 16877

                    #10
                    Yup... I have that same TV for my bedroom. Love it.

                    When I go watch movies in my theater, it's a great performance, but I do notice that it lacks 120Hz technology on motion scenes. Only thing it lacks in comparison to the bedroom TV. But there's only like one front projector out there right now with 120Hz technology, and it's $15k or something. So I'll wait for a better projector to come out.
                    CHRIS

                    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                    - Pleasantville

                    Comment

                    • Hdale85
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 16073

                      #11
                      On my tv it has the smoothness enhancer which I was thinking was the 120hz technology. If I put it on Medium/Normal it looks fine but on High its like the video is playing faster then it should be. Also just curious if these displays are 120hz capable how come you can't feed it a 120hz video signal. Not a big deal just a couple curious questions. I think I'm going to bust out the manual and read through it.

                      Comment

                      • Hdale85
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 16073

                        #12
                        Read through the manual and didn't see it mention which one adjusts the 120hz technology. I'm pretty sure its Motion Enhancer though. CineMotion is for 3:2 pulldown. They do recommend normal for movies though.

                        Something that has me a bit frustrated is I can't seem to get the TV to see my video signal over HDMI as a PC natively so that when I set the wide mode to normal it enables 1:1 pixel mapping. Right now it overscans quite a bit.

                        Comment

                        • Kevin P
                          Member
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 10808

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Dougie085
                          Also just curious if these displays are 120hz capable how come you can't feed it a 120hz video signal.
                          I'm a little behind the tech curve but is there such a thing as a "120hz video signal" in any consumer gear? Or pro gear for that matter? TV is recorded at 30 fps, film at 24 (though digital movies could be higher). I doubt there's any source material that's natively at 120hz (shouldn't it be "fps" and not "hertz"?), so the TVs have to use interpolation to provide the smoothing benefit of the higher refresh rate.

                          I wonder if Blu-Ray, HD and HDMI has support designed in for higher frame rate video.

                          Comment

                          • littlesaint
                            Senior Member
                            • Jul 2007
                            • 823

                            #14
                            Hertz is just a term used for cycles or repetitions of something per second. In this case a "cycle" is simply one frame. To feed a display 120fps, you'd need something that can do this such as a PC, and you would need 120fps source material. Otherwise it's not really native, just interpolated on the PC instead of the display.
                            Santino

                            The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.

                            Comment

                            • H.T.C
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2003
                              • 368

                              #15
                              Film is 24fps and runs through the sprockets really darn fast and tv is 60fps altogether but enhanced motion on 120 hz i heard said just sharpens the edges and manufacturers seem to have alternate names for it.
                              Robert

                              Comment

                              • aud19
                                Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                • Aug 2003
                                • 16706

                                #16
                                What's needed with the 120hz technology is 5:5 pull down for film and 4:4/2:2 for 30/60fps video to take advantage of the fact that all of them divide in to 120Hz . Hopefully on next year's models
                                Jason

                                Comment

                                • littlesaint
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jul 2007
                                  • 823

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by aud19
                                  What's needed with the 120hz technology is 5:5 pull down for film and 4:4/2:2 for 30/60fps video to take advantage of the fact that all of them divide in to 120Hz . Hopefully on next year's models
                                  The only displays I'm aware that do not do a proper pull down are Mitsubishi. All of the others that offer 120Hz, do a 5:5 for film and 4:4/2:2 for video.
                                  Santino

                                  The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.

                                  Comment

                                  Working...
                                  Searching...Please wait.
                                  An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                  Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                  An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                  Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                  An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                  There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                  Search Result for "|||"