Channel changing speed question

[selection7]

I'm looking to buy an lcd widescreen tv for under $1000, preferably with 720p display capability.

I noticed that changing channels at the Best Buy (the ones out on the shelves that appear to only be connected to coax cables [is is still digital feed]...not the component connected ones in the "Home Theater" section, channel changing is locked on those) that channel changing is excruciatingly slow. I WILL NOT buy a tv if I can't change the channels fast! Having said that, if there's some way around the problem (for example I've noticed on my current setup that my current tv changes channels slowly but hook up the VCR and use the VCR remote to change channels and you're off and flying!), then maybe I don't care so much whether the actual tv remote changes channels quickly by default.

So my basic question is what do I have to do to get a widescreen tv that changes channels quickly? (the quicker the better, it's a big selling point for me) Because of my ignorance, I don't know if maybe channel changing is quicker/slower depending on whether you use composite, coax, component, s-video, or HDMI. I also don't know if all LCD tv's change channels slow (whereas I know that many CRT tv's can change channels at the speed of light). Lastly, I don't know if hooking up a VCR to the LCD widescreen tv will allow me to change channels quickly...and if so, are there VCR/DVD players that won't degrade the signal from HD to standard definition?

Thanks to anyone who can help me out.

[Audiophiliac]

The issue is likely with the digital tuners. With "old" analog TV signals, the tuner just picks it up and runs with it. With digital signals, the tuner has to lock onto the signal, decode the information and/or metadata (channel information, format, resolution, etc), and then start passing the signal. It takes a bit longer. This is also true with HD cable and satellite receivers.

There really isnt going to be any instantaneous action like we were spoiled with until HD came about.

[aud19]

First welcome to HTG :T

Now let's see.... Channel changing speed is a result of the TV's internal tuner, not the display type. So a CRT can have a slow tuner, just as an LCD can have a fast one. Or if you're using a cable or satellite box, it will depend on the tuner in that box and have nothing to do with the TV's tuner or display type.

As for "are there VCR/DVD players that won't degrade the signal from HD to standard definition?". Those formats (and regular analog/SD digital cable and satellite) ARE standard definition and no tuner or display type will make them HD. To view HD on an HD display you will require either a HD capable cable/sat box and/or one of the new HD capable disc formats (HD-DVD and BD) Also if you want and HD signal from any of those sources it HAS to be transmitted over HDMI, DVI or component video cables. Svideo, composite and coax are only capable of transmitting standard definition.

[selection7]

Hmmm. Thanks, that's really good info.

About that VCR/DVD bit, I was suggesting that although the VCR or DVD player could only put out standard definition for its recorded media, for channel changing it could still output in hi-def. Anyway, don't worry about that...dumb idea. I can see it's not likely any manufacturers have made something like that.

Do you all think the LCD tv's on the regualr shelves at Best Buy are receiving digital signal? I could see digital artifacting on them but I don't know if that's just the nature of an LCD's output or if it's because they were receiving digital signal rather than analog. Though like I said, I'm still just suscribing to analog cable so maybe if I bought one of those LCD tv's it would still go quick when I hook it up at my home.

I guess as far as digital goes, I'll have to alter my hard line stance on not buying a tv that can't change channels quickly since there's no alternative currently. At least I know where to start. Tuners can be purchased so in the future I could research which tuners are the fastest and buy the one I liked best, right?

[peterS]

I'm looking to buy an lcd widescreen tv for under $1000, preferably with 720p display capability.

I noticed that changing channels at the Best Buy (the ones out on the shelves that appear to only be connected to coax cables [is is still digital feed]...not the component connected ones in the "Home Theater" section, channel changing is locked on those) that channel changing is excruciatingly slow. I WILL NOT buy a tv if I can't change the channels fast! Having said that, if there's some way around the problem (for example I've noticed on my current setup that my current tv changes channels slowly but hook up the VCR and use the VCR remote to change channels and you're off and flying!), then maybe I don't care so much whether the actual tv remote changes channels quickly by default.

So my basic question is what do I have to do to get a widescreen tv that changes channels quickly? (the quicker the better, it's a big selling point for me) Because of my ignorance, I don't know if maybe channel changing is quicker/slower depending on whether you use composite, coax, component, s-video, or HDMI. I also don't know if all LCD tv's change channels slow (whereas I know that many CRT tv's can change channels at the speed of light). Lastly, I don't know if hooking up a VCR to the LCD widescreen tv will allow me to change channels quickly...and if so, are there VCR/DVD players that won't degrade the signal from HD to standard definition?

Thanks to anyone who can help me out.

they are using their tunners to pick up the feed
the tunner switching from analog to digital is what causes the delay (ie irrelevant to the type of tv)

if you are spending that kind of money on a tv id suggest cable or satelite anyways so not an issue

if you used the vcr's tunner not only would you be only getting ntsc only broadcasts (analog) but a slightly degraded one at that

the channels will change 'normal speed' when using a cable or satelite box

[selection7]

they are using their tunners to pick up the feed
the tunner switching from analog to digital is what causes the delay (ie irrelevant to the type of tv).

Thanks, let me make sure I understand you. You're suggesting the internal tuners in the LCD tv's on the shelf are "switching from analog to digital", right? So then you're also saying that Best Buy is feeding each tv digital signal and of course all digital signal has to be converted to analog for display purposes and that's what takes awhile. Right?

That suggests that if Best Buy would just feed it analog signal then the tv wouldn't have to convert to digital and the channel changing would be quick rather than slow. Right?

Also, let me clarify since I can't remember from having used cable boxes in the past ...if I got digital cable then the tuner within the digital cable box and the remote supplied by the cable company would then allow me to turn the channels quickly (making the speed with which the tv's internal tuner changes channels irrelevant)? How quick? Less than ~1/3 of a second of blue/black screen in betwen channel changing would be ideal. Some of the tv's that I tried on the shelf took more than 1 second. Like you were suggesting, $1000 is a lot of money...too much money for a tv that can't even be used to channel surf effectively so that's why I'm being so particular.

[peterS]

you are making this too complicated

the switching between tunners is only an issue if you use antena

[selection7]

you are making this too complicated
the switching between tunners is only an issue if you use antena

So now you're talking about antennas, which are used for picking up over the air HDTV (I did a google...I guess that means something like satellite, but not quite). The tv's at Best Buy were hooked up with coax cables and so that confused me into thinking the tv's were fed by digital cable...I guess there's one big central antenna that serves all the tv's. Does this mean that the extreme length of time it takes to change channels on those Best Buy tv's is due to their antenna feed? That would totally make sense as I've got a friend with Dish Network who says it takes over 2 seconds to switch between channels...part of the reason Dish Network is not an option for me.

Anyway, you're making me guess what you're talking about with your terse replies so I'm doing the best I can (though I appreciate your input either way). It looks like the only way for me to really know if this tv is what I want is to buy one with the understanding that I can take it back if I don't like it.

[aud19]

I don't mean any offense here but picking TV based on it's tuner's speed, (particularly when we don't know if you plan to use satellite, cable, OTA HDTV or a set top box for any of the above or the sets internal NTSC or ATSC tuner for the feed...) is akin to choosing a car based on the speed it's auxilary belt runs at.

Also just to clarify, OTA HDTV is not really all that similar to satellite. It's more similar to the old analog antenna system you might remember (rabbit ears, rooftop/attic antenna's etc). However it's simply transmitting a digital, HD signal rather than an analog, SD signal. You do require either an ATSC tuner built in to your TV or a set top box (STB) to receive OTA HD.

My advice is to find a TV with a picture you find pleasing, a GUI you enjoy using and easily comprehend at a price you can afford. You'll have to add a STB (or an HD player) of some sort to watch any HD anyways and the TV's internal tuner(s) will make no difference at that point anyways. Besides that (though I haven't verified this myself) I would doubt there's more than a fraction of a second's difference between any major TV companies tuners.

[selection7]

Actually, if you see in my original post I mentioned that I would be satisfied with "a way around the problem". After all, I'm looking for the solution, whatever that may be, and a tv with a quick internal tuner is only one way around it. I would say using a set top box or something similar to it definitely qualifies... if I understand you right. But then you're the first post to explicitly say that the tv's internal tuner doesn't matter if you eventually end up using a set top box. I think I even literally asked that question a couple of posts back.

Just out of curiosity I mentioned this all to a couple of other people and got some pretty dramatic reactions (ranting even) saying basically the same thing I am, so I know I"m not the only one who puts a premium on usability.

Anyway, I still don't know if a LCD tv will change channels quicker when you feed it pure coax standard signal (as opposed to digital standard signal)...in both cases using the tv's tuner (I assume your "all tuners are about the same" comment doesn't apply to a pure analog situation). It's been explained to me on this forum that the conversion and downloading of digital info is what is time consuming...so it just makes sense...feed it analog signal and there's no conversion necessary. I'm gonna have to check it all out and I'll report back on what I found.

[aud19]

But then you're the first post to explicitly say that the tv's internal tuner doesn't matter if you eventually end up using a set top box. I think I even literally asked that question a couple of posts back.

My first response and second response to your thread:

First welcome to HTG :T

Now let's see.... Channel changing speed is a result of the TV's internal tuner, not the display type. So a CRT can have a slow tuner, just as an LCD can have a fast one. Or if you're using a cable or satellite box, it will depend on the tuner in that box and have nothing to do with the TV's tuner or display type.

[selection7]

Or if you're using a cable or satellite box, it will depend on the tuner in that box and have nothing to do with the TV's tuner or display type.

Absolutely you did! Geez, I think the sentence before that so interested me that I skimmed over the next sentence without fully digesting it. That caused some confusion I guess, sorry.

Although you can look on the net and get a lot of info close to the sort of quesitons I was asking... it still would have been real tough to get answers the exact specific questions I was asking so thanks everyone for all the good info!

BTW, the Best Buy employee told me they have a satellite tv feed.

[Clive]

Have you considered going somewhere else to see this unit displayed and run say in an independent A/V store, if possible? Have you decided what type of feed you are going to use with with unit before you purchase it?

Cable Box, Satalite or Direct feed will all have different responce time :T

[selection7]

OK, so I bought one.

I bought an LCD tv and am quite happy with it so far. Is there a particular website that is the "go-to" website for consumer reviews for this type of thing (like epinions, for example)...so I can leave a user review?

I get a weather channel as well as FOX, NBC, CBS, ABC, and MTV-HD in high def. I get approx. 10 channels in digital and approx. 70 channels in analog. (I'm using cable tv) Because of this I'm able to compare HD, digital, and analog.

As it turns out, my analog tv switching is quite quick!...less than 1/3 of a second for sure which is exactly what I wanted. So there you go. Satellite tv channel switching on directv takes forever, cable digital channel switching takes between 2/3 second and just over 1 second randomly, and analog channel changing can be quick...even on LCD tv's like they make these days.

That means I can channel surf on the analog channels and once I settle in on a channel, switch to it's analogous digital channel...assuming it's one of the 15 digital/HD channels I've got right now. But anyway, I don't see why I couldn't expand the # of digital channels I have later while still keeping access to the analog channels for channel surfing.

So anyways everything seems to have worked out. I'll go into more detail on the exact tv I purchased later once I've written a review.

[aud19]

Glad you found a set your happy with :T I lookk forward to your review

As for a place to find/write customer reviews, I've found http://www.audioreview.com to be pretty good.