The Importance Of Screens

[setite]

I see that alot of people use professional screens here. Is this because the difference is night and day or because you like the ease. I'm looking into making a screen with material bought off ebay. Before you burn me at the stake my question is simply that will it be sufficient, I am just jumping into this and price is the biggest issue... of course if the screen is really that bad I will be getting a pro one in time, but I plan to make a screen between 120-140" and a da-lite one is insanely expensive when i can make one to get by for now. Who here made their screen and what company did you get your material from?

[Burke Strickland]

What do you consider "insanely expensive"? When I bought my 120 inch diagonal Da Lite High Power screen, I got quotes ranging from just under $700 to over $2100 -- same size, material, style frame, etcetera. In this situation, I felt that $2100 was "insanely expensive". :>)

If you are ordering material and making the frame, then presumably you are getting a "professional" screen surface and an installation that will suit you at a reasonable price. Go for it and enjoy!

Burke

[setite]

i dont quite recall, i havent seen the price on a da-lite one in a while but you answered one of my questions as 700$ is much more than I want to pay. After looking around I think I may paint an mdf board or use some blackout cloth.... part of that being that I want to go as big as I can which is aroun 140 inches.... im thinking for now i should buy some blackout cloth, and some pipe... and sew a loop into the bottom for the pipe to sorta tension the cloth... but to repose the question that is not yet answered..... is a pro screen needed period... or just for the perfectionist.. will blackout cloth or a painted mdf board do?

[wildfire99]

There's nothing wrong with blackout cloth from JoAnn's fabrics. The thing that people start to get into with regards to "pro" screens are:

1) Color Balance
2) Acoustical Transparency (speakers behind the screen)
3) Gain

I think color balance for your average blackout cloth will be fine, if you care enough to adjust your colors with a colorimeter then you probably are knowledgeable enough to adjust for the yellowish tinge of your average blackout material (or just paint it white and have a bluish tinge).

If you need accoustical transparency then you really do need to start writing zeros on a check, unless you will go with a smaller screen (like 80").

If you need gain (and most likely you will with that kind of size) then you need to look at pro screens. Blackout cloth is what, about 1.0 gain (e.g. no gain). Dalite's HiPower screen is something like 2.3 in the viewing cone, but don't quote me on that.

Dalite's screen pricing is a bit weird. Buy a screen's worth of material 'X' and pay $500. Buy material 'X' in a frame and pay $900. Buy material 'X' in a pulldown and pay $350.

My Dalite hipower screen (119" wide, 133" diagonal) was under $400. If I wanted to, I could just cut it off the roller case and mount it flat on the wall. I would recommend you do the same thing I did. Go to JoAnn's (or similar) and get 10' of their blackout cloth material, it's about 56-58" high. You can make a 10' wide scope-style screen (constant height), which is really cool. Get your projector, and find out how big you REALLY need the screen to be, then if you need it brighter, or can't stand the center speaker being above or below the screen, buy a pro screen.

[setite]

thanks... that is a great response... i checked a review at another site and from pictures i know that i need gain... looking at the shadows on the silverstar with 3.0 gain i think was night and day... also i see that screens can be cheap... and due to the popularity i think imma go with 133" or 120" because those are what i see premade... I think I will be using blackout because my walls are black.. and there is a window where i want the screen and projecting onto window blinds would not be the greatest picture ... so i will suffer by with a 1.0 gain on a ghetto made screen till i can get the funds for a better one... thats only around a month or two though... so its fine... thanks for the help... i like this forum... and the white background unlike that other eyesight destroying forum

[Nick M]

Check out Carada at the top of the page. Excellent company.
That said, I bet you could make a fantastic screen if you're willing to put the effort into it. When I added up all the materials and factored in the time it would take me, the Carada prices were simply to tempting for a professional looking "plug n' play" screen.

In my experience an HDMI cable made the biggest difference followed by my gray screen.

[JonMarsh]

I've used DA-LITE in the past, but have a Carada in my current setup- with CRT. Construction quality and visual quality are very good, and price was reasonable, one might almost say "budget". I've done the DIY screen thing, too- that's what the Carada replaced.

~Jon

[aud19]

Definitely look at Carada :T

Otherwise, do you know what projector you plan on using and your viewing distance from your screen? You may want to confirm those things before deciding on your screen size. My guess is the optimal screen size will not be that big, especially 140"!

[setite]

yea i know that im pushing it with 140... but the room is light controlled to 0 ambient light so I was hoping that I could swing it... but 140 is too much anyway... i think 120 or 133 or 136 is what I will end up doing... and yea im just gonna do a ghetto install on some blackout until I can afford a carada.. im sold on them ... the prices in combination with all the good reviews makes me feel good... i wish they had higher than a 1.4 gain.. thats also why im probably going 120 inches.... i need shadow detail.. and yea lcd sorta suck for that... but reading that review on that 3.0 gain showed that a 1.0 screen just showed pure black, while a 3.0 showed a whole lot more detail... and im a gamer.. and lots of the games have shadows that I need to be able to see through and im scared that I will have no detail....

[Nick M]

Definetly get screen samples and compare... it's free, and all you have to do is send your address to the various companies. I was going to go with an ultra-high gain screen too, but often the viewing cone where that bright image has it's effect is quite small. Those not sitting right on axis with the screen end up with a dull image.

[aud19]

yea i know that im pushing it with 140... but the room is light controlled to 0 ambient light so I was hoping that I could swing it... but 140 is too much anyway... i think 120 or 133 or 136 is what I will end up doing... and yea im just gonna do a ghetto install on some blackout until I can afford a carada.. im sold on them ... the prices in combination with all the good reviews makes me feel good... i wish they had higher than a 1.4 gain.. thats also why im probably going 120 inches.... i need shadow detail.. and yea lcd sorta suck for that... but reading that review on that 3.0 gain showed that a 1.0 screen just showed pure black, while a 3.0 showed a whole lot more detail... and im a gamer.. and lots of the games have shadows that I need to be able to see through and im scared that I will have no detail....

Light control and projector light output, while a big factor in decidingon screen size, are not the only ones. You also have to take in to account so called "screen door" and also the actual resolution of your display material compared to your seating distance. Too close and/or too big of a screen and you'll be able to see the individual picture elements which will give an unpleasant, blocky appearance to your picture. Not really what you should be shooting for.

How big is your room? Unless it's QUITE large I think you'll be happier with something closer to ~100" diagonal (I mean that's 8'! 8O ) for the reasons stated above as well as having to make less compromises with screen material/light output. Try marking up something on the wall at the size you're considering and something closer to 100". I think you may find that 140" is bigger than you thought and 100" is actually a pretty good size. Also confirm recommended screen sizes/viewing distances of the projector(s) you're interested in

[setite]

yea i was blinded by the projectorcenteral calculator that said that 140 inches was ok and that it did not recommend a higher gain to me... so you think 120 is overkill? or just with that projector.. i set out to have a minimum or 120 so i would love to stick with that in any way i can... id be willing to go 100 until i get a good enough screen though if need be...

[Brandon B]

Maybe I've missed it in this thread, but what projector do you have and how far are you planning to sit from the screen?

BB

[Azeke]

I have a 120" Diag screen, and if it wasn't free, I'd probably would go with a 104" Diag from Carada. Don't get me wrong the 120" Diag is good, but just a little much and therefore not providing an ultimate video experience, due to the projector's throw distance.

However, if I had money just to throw away, I would probably go for the Silverstar from Vutec, but alas. Get the samples for each vendor and test for your individual projector and taste.

Best regards,

Azeke

[Lex]

I too have Carada, and have had it for well over a year, and have enjoyed it a lot.

Doug

[setite]

well after looking at that review a second time the carada criterion 1.4 gain looks to have enough shadow detail... and i dont have a projector.. but i will have a ae700 soon.... and i plan to sit around 13-14 feet away.... 12 is probably the closest i would get to it.... ya i wish i had the cash for a silverstar... that thing is amazing

[Brandon B]

I sit 11 feet away from a 120" Dalite Highpower with a 2300 lumen projector. Too close? Yes, a little. SDE was pretty distracting until I added an IMX depixelator. Vertical banding is my biggest complaint now, IMX did nothing to make that less obvious.

But I've tried sitting farther away, and it just ruins the immersiveness for me. People feel differently about size vs. visibility of artifacts, but if it were me, I would get the projector first and do some tests with the wall or sheets or something first before I committed to a screen size.

And the measured gain of the silverstar is not that different than the highpower, BTW.

BB

[Paul H]

I'll second Brandon's suggestion - get the projector first and use it on the wall for a few days/weeks before you spend money on any sort of screen.

You may end up wanting a different size screen than you think you want now - no amount of review-reading and researching can replace having the pj set up in your room and watching it from your chair.

Paul

[setite]

ok i do have one question now... what is this 2.35:1 ratio..... i just realized that its not 16:9.. any suggestion on that....? should i stick with 16:9 since thats the native of the ae700?

[Brandon B]

2.35 is "scope" AR, really wide screen. Movies like LOTR, SW, Lawrence of Arabia, those that have black bars even on 16:9 displays. Don't know what the ratio is in general, but for movies I buy seems to be about half and half in each category. To do a 2.35:1 setup (22x9 comes close to this number) can involve some unwanted compromises though.

I can tell you the chain of thought I went through when buying a screen. I originally wanted every type of image to be as big as it could, and originally even considered a 4:3. Eventually realized that blowing up 4:3 images to be bigger than most movies REALLY did not make sense, if only from an image quality standpoint.

So I went with a 16:9 (the biggest I could get into my space, after using sheets of styrofoam and such temporarily). After living with it for the first year, I came to realize that it bothered me that the movies that SHOULD be the largest (2.35:1 films) were smaller than the 16:9 types. In fact, when you go to a movie theater, the screens are generally 2.35:1, and they close masking or the curtains down for 1.85:1 (16x9) films.

To do this at home though, is a bit trickier. It is generally referred to as a constant height setup. The best way to do it is to buy an anamorphic lens. These come in two types: one that vertically compresses the 16:9 image to the new ratio, and another that horizontally stretches it. These may sound like they are doing the same thing, but the former means you must move the projector back or zoom it out to have the same height screen, while the latter keeps your screen height the same either way. The cheapest of these lenses are $600-700, and the nicest are about $5K. The other part of the trick is your projector may not be able to 'stretch' a 2.35:1 image to fill its whole display panel, which must be done for it to look correct when 'unstretched' by the squishing or stretching of the anamorphic lens. This can be done externally by a scaler or HTPC though. Lastly, you need a screen with some sort of masking to block off the sides of the screen when showing a stndard 16:9 movie. You also need to move the anamorphic lens aside for this.

You can try and do this without all the extra equipment by merely moving your entire projector back for the wide movies, but you are in effect drastically reducing your resolution for the larger format picture, probably not something you want to do with an LCD like the AE700.

In other words, it's a whole bunch of $$$ to do a constant height setup for 2.35:1 properly. Maybe add 300% to what you are looking to spend now. I have pretty well made up my mind to do it somewhere down the road, but for a first setup, without a dedicated space and healthy budget, it's hard to manage.

BB

[SteveL]

I posted this on another forum, but I think it bears repeating here... I have a Panasonic AE700U projector that I've done *nothing* with - no calibration, no adjustments, nothing - I just set it to "Cinema" mode. All of the extras are turned off (dynamic iris, etc), and lamp power is set to "low."

My room is 15-ish x 22-ish. Seating distance is 13ft / 19ft from screen (2 rows).

I bought the Parkland Plastics HT stuff for $84.xx shipped to my house. I was in a hurry because I had family coming from 700 miles away to see the theater, and I was still finishing it as they were driving down...

Here's the results -- again, nothing has been corrected/adjusted/etc., and the photos are 100% raw, save for the resize. I used a crummy lens (kit lens that comes with Canon 20D), so there's no "benefit" from the camera.







The room is 100% light controlled (the pics were taken at about 6:30pm). The point being that rather than worry about what to buy before you even get the projector, just drop $80 on a Parkland solution, experiment, and see what you need to get from there. I spent dozens of hours researching, reading, studying, theorizing, etc., about my screen -- worrying about whether or not I needed Dalite/Carada/MM/LF/whatever, and had I made my own, I'd probably have worried that I'd "done it wrong."

In any event, I'm really happy with the screen, even more so when I know it cost $80 and took all of 5 minutes to nail to the wall. The screen measures 10'6" x 5'2" in size... so that's somewhere near 130"... I use the projector on about 60% zoom.

So, what I'd suggest is that you try something simple and inexpensive to start off with, and go from there. You might be surprised by the results. I'm really happy with the detail that I'm able to see, the lack of SDE, and the general quality of the image, even though it's "so large" and on "a cheap" screen...


Here's a picture of the room for reference:



Good luck, and enjoy that AE700U. I love mine!

[sikoniko]

what is the parkland solution? got a link? nice looking setup. I bet all of those subs really makes the room shake.

[SteveL]

Here's a link to Parkland's site:

http://www.parklandplastics.com/

Some folks have had luck finding the stuff at places like Home Depot, Lowes, and Menards, but I went to all three and all three looked at me like I had a 3rd eye when I asked if they could order Parkland Plastics "Polywall."

So, I ordered direct from them - they have something called "Polywall HT screen" - it was around $65-$70 + $15 for shipping. It arrived within about 3 days (regular shipping).

I'm not suggesting it's the best solution available, but for the $$ and ease, it's pretty darn good stuff.

And, yeah - the subs are too much... they literally cause my floors upstairs to "heave," rattle things like our refrigerator, dishes, etc., all of this despite 2 layers of 5/8" drywall, tons of insulation and soundboard... I may unhook 2 of them, as I'm really concerned that the house may not be able to take it. (They're Ascendant Audio Avalanche 18's in an infinite baffle, with a Crest CA-18 amp (running at about -50 on a -80 - 0 scale))

[Paul H]

... And, yeah - the subs are too much... they literally cause my floors upstairs to "heave," rattle things like our refrigerator, dishes, etc., all of this despite 2 layers of 5/8" drywall, tons of insulation and soundboard... I may unhook 2 of them, as I'm really concerned that the house may not be able to take it. ...

:rofl: :rofl: :T :T



Paul

[Azeke]

Actually check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=588237&highlight=Parkland+Plastics

I was actually contemplating a DIY screen a year or two ago, until my company upgraded their conference rooms and threw out the old screens.

I have been researching screens for a while now including DIY screens, high end, and low end. There is a gentlemen over at another forum who as provided excellent detailed reviews on a number of screens.

IMHO, Carada screens are like Rotel components they provide the best bang for the buck. I especially like the Criterion series, and have not yet seen any negative comments about their products.

Just my $.02,

Azeke

[SteveL]

Yeah, that's the thread I was talking about where I'd posted earlier... I'm sure you can get some great results making your own (if all goes well), and you can get some great results if you spend $700+ on a screen. But for $80, it's tough to beat the Parkland option.

[George Bellefontaine]

Nice HT, Steve.

[setite]

i must say that is awesome...... i now feel good about choosing the ae700... just wondering... are you using htpc or dvd player there... and what is your screen size... sorry if i missed it

EDIT: I cant find that product, the parkland poly-wall ht screen on their site. Does anyone have the link directly to it. And discard the question about the screen size.. you have give me hope.. 130 inches.. woot
EDIT: Ok I found it. Disregard that also . I found it.. the old saying "if it was a snake..." comes to mind.

[Nick M]

The other value PJ is the Sanyo PLV Z3. It's down less than $1500 now, and is constantly compared to the 700U.

You might want to check it out.

[Nick M]

Also remember that viewing a picture of the display on a monitor is completely different than actually sitting in front of the 7'+ image.

[setite]

noted... i understand that... and i was sold on the sanyo for a while till i read more reviews... and the fact that the 1.33 zoom may not be enough for my goal...

[SteveL]

Hi Set,

I *think* you found the answers, but it's no big deal for me to repost/clarify:

- Source = a cheapo Samsung DVD player with HDMI to the Projector
- Screen size = about 130" - hard to say, because I've never actually measured it
- Parkland material - here's a link to the order form

I know a lot of folks complain that it's $60 from Parkland, but it's worth it, IMHO. I mean, how many other screens can you find for <$90 shipped that can be nailed-up in less than 5 minutes and "work" right off the bat? Me, I'm lazy, so when faced with the option of spending a few nights and $40-$50 on a DIY solution or calling someone and saying, "Ship it," I go the easy route.