New HDTV, $4K to spend

[mez]

Hi All -

I'm new to this forum and this is my first post so please excuse any ignorance.

I'm looking for a new 55'-62" HDTV. Originally I had nearly settled on an LCD rear-projection until I saw it side by side w a DLP (black levels were much better w DLP). So I thought I had found the answer in a Mitsubishi 62" DLP that I found to be perfect, except for the rainbow effect, which is quite severe and annoying for me. So assuming I return that TV, I'm looking for help finding the right one.

Bit of background, the TV will be in a room with some light, but not a ton. I'm going to be using this to watch all TV, movies, HD broadcasts, football games, etc.

I'm considering Sony LCDs - especially the new KDF55XS955, which from what I understand is supposed to have better black levels than the previous Sony model, but I have not seen it yet. I've also heard good things about the JVC DILA. And finally, there are some professional model 50" plasmas, but they don't have built in tuners - which is not necessary in my current setup, but maybe down the line?

Looking for some help....

thanks for any suggestions

[junior77blue]

The best bang for the buck is LCD. Either sony, hitachi and I think toshiba might have good quality LCDs, but not sure. I haven't seen the 'new' sony's so can't really comment on them.

Higher end models of Sony (XBR) and Hitachi (Cineform) both have a reflective covering which enhances black levels, but sacrifices reflection from any light. Still not as good as DLP but much improved over not having one. However, these only work well where light can be controlled.

Plasma's are nice, but I've 'heard' too much negative issues with life expectancy and not to mention the price per square inch is still high.

If you have cable or satellite, and don't see yourself getting rid of it, you don't need a built in tuner. Personally, waste of money since you will more than likely use an external tuner.

[aud19]

Have you considered a front projector? You mentioned there would be a small amount of light, is it controllable, ie: is it a light source that could be turned off or blinds/drapes hung? There's quite a few very high quality 3-chip LCD based FP's out there in that price range....

Most chip based FP's are bright enough that they can work decently for daytime viewing with some ambient light, of course black levels will suffer in that scenario but it should work fine for non critical viewing.

Otherwise, if rainbows are a problem for you and you don't want to go CRT, LCD based sets is where I'd go. If you have the space for a CRT based RPTV, give it some thought. It will give you the best colour, best black level etc and be cheaper to boot. Personally, I'd still buy a CRT if buying a new set today that wasn't an FP. You could get a VERY nice CRT set plus ISF calibration for that budget! :P

[mez]

Do they make 55" CRT TVs? If so , they must be 450 lbs.

[aud19]

Do they make 55" CRT TVs? If so , they must be 450 lbs.

:lol: No, not 55" "Direct View" CRT sets, but from about 40" -70" you can get CRT based RPTV's which will outperform any of the new technologies in just about every way. Pretty much there only drawback is that they're deeper and heavier than the new technologies.

If you look at FP's and I seriously recommend that you do, check out Infocus, Pansonic, Sanyo, Sony and Yamaha's LCD based units in your price range.

[BlazeMaster]

the life expectancy of a current plasma is about 60,000 hours til half life. Do the math junior77blue. That's a good 18 years of usage @ 10 hours per day! I know most people don't use their TV 10 hours a day 7 days a week for almost 20 years. And the price of plasmas are falling at a quicker rate than any other technology. And there's no technology that can look as sharp and vibrant as plasma because nothing else is direct-view. This is of course, based on my views. Bottom line, with all the new technologies coming out, who knows there might be a 3 chip DLP RP tvs coming out soon that will eliminate rainbows and screendoor, but I'll still take a direct view w/ a slim panel design for less than 80 lbs over anything else.

A FP would be my 2nd choice, but then you'd still have to worry about ambient light, fan noise, and light bulb replacement, just don't seem practical enough of a everyday display. Unless you have room to go big with a FP 60'' + it's just not worth the hassle.

[Kevin P]

For $4k (actually they're around $3K) check out the JVC DILA sets. These are the current top notch picture quality for non-CRT sets IMHO.

Don't rule out CRT RPTVs either - they're inexpensive and offer the best blacks and contrast, bar none. The drawbacks are size (cabinet depth, usually around 24-28"), convergence (most newer sets have auto-convergence that makes this task much easier), and risk of burn-in if static images are kept up too long. They need to be tweaked to get the best possible picture as well.

Plasmas have improved greatly in the past few years. However, they aren't quite there yet in terms of bang/buck, black levels or subtle contrast details IMHO. The cheapest plasmas are EDTV, not HDTV resolution. If you're considering a plasma, try to demo it (preferably tweaked or at least with remote in hand for tweaking) before buying it. 60" plasmas are expensive, VERY heavy, and (at least for the 60" ones I've worked with) are somewhat lackluster in performance compared to smaller sets. 50" is the "sweet-spot" size for plasma right now. Plasmas can also suffer from burn-in, so keep this in mind if you're going to play video games or watch a lot of 4:3 material with side bars.

[junior77blue]

Thanks for the math lesson blazemaster...

How bout finding a good HDTV plasma 55-62" less than $4k? Any recommendations?

Prices might be falling, but they haven't fallen fast enough...and your right new technology is just around the corner...i believe IIRC toshiba is working on new flat panel design to blow away all current technologies and take more money from consumers.

[BlazeMaster]

no junior77blue, there aren't any decent plasmas in the 55-62'' range for 4K, and I'm sure you know that, that's why you asked me.....
The JVC D-ILA are a quite impressive contender for the money. If you have plenty of room for a deeper cabinet then go look at either DLPs or D-ILA, better than CRT and LCD RPTV, IMO.

[junior77blue]

Just checking...wasn't sure. I did see a 60" sony XBR at crutchfield for $20k...

I have yet to compare a JVC d-ila with LCD & DLP, at least with a good input signal.

Does size/weight cause an issue? The best picture quality (RPTV) is still the CRT.

1) RPTV CRT (big & heavy size, not bright enough in 'well lit rooms', but great black levels)
2) RPTV DLP (small potential rainbow effect, better blacks than LCD (generally))
3) RPTV LCD (Black levels aren't the best)

And somewhere the D-ILA fits in...not sure. Definately worth a look.
Plasmas and LCDs are out of budget in this size.

sony/ hitachi for LCD
samsung / mitsubish for DLP
JVC for DILA

[aud19]

IMO D-ILA/LCOS SXRD or whatever you want to call it is the closest and chip based sets have come to CRT's. IMO CRT'S are still less expensive and have better PQ at the expense of size. If the depth of the set isn't a concern I'd strongly recommend A CRT RPTV from Hitachi or Mitsubishi.

Even stronger though, I still recommend looking at a front projector setup. Hell you can even get a small HD direct view CRT for non critical viewing (with ambient light) to watch the news etc and a pretty good FP with about a $4000 budget.

[junior77blue]

there some pretty good reviews of samsund dlp / hitachi lcd / jvc D-ila on cnet.com.

Based on quickly skimming these reviews, none of these sets are 'perfect'. Each has its own flaws.

I do agree with aud19s opinion regarding CRT rear projection.

Can't really comment on FP, but would be the ideal set up for a dedicated home movie theater. I would imagine light control would be critical...

[aud19]

IMO, If it was my money I'd pick up about a $3000'ish FP, $500'ish screen and a $500'ish 30" or so direct view widescreen HD set if you plan on watching HD/DVD's with ambient light or an even bigger standard definition direct view set for watching "regular" cable.

[mez]

ok thanks to everyone for their opinions. I have a few follow up questions:

1 - CRT RPTV - are these the first generation rear projection TVs that are $1,000-$2,000? If so, I think the viewing angle sucks, too bulky, etc

2 - With regard to the DLP, I love the picture, hate the rainbow effect.

3 - JVC DILA - I looked at this TV again today and I'm not that impressed. Everyone on this site seems to rave about it, but I thought the picture was just as good as the Sony Wega LCD Rear Projection. Is there anything better about it that I'm missing?

4 - Sony LCD - This is the way I'm leaning right now. The new 55" XS model seems to have a better picture and the only drawback is the funny speaker setup. Any thoughts?

5 - oh before I forget, the FPs. My buddy has one and it has a BEAUTIFUL, LARGE picture that was very impressive. The only problem was when he turned the light in the room on, the picture was very dim. The other problem is that I don't intend to stay in my current house for the next 2 years, so I don't think its wise to install one and have to pull it down later.

thanks for your comments!!!

[junior77blue]

I've never been too impressed with DILA either, but I think a lot of it has to do with the signal quality of the material being presented. Maybe if a DVD player was directly hooked up to it. Keep that in mind when doing comparison viewing.

You are correct, CRT RPTV are the 'older' technology. Best picture quality for any RPTV, but it does have its faults.

I haven't seen the new XS model from sony. I'm guessing it must be NEW. Have you been able to compare it to hitachi line up? If so, how does it stack up?

Yeah, DLP would be the best bet, unless the rainbow effects you. I think the LCD picture is inferior but no rainbow!

[springer49]

I originally had the JVC delivered but when it came to my door I noticed a dent in the box which in turn related to a whole in the screen. I now own the Sony XS 955 60 in. I love it! For the money it is hard to beat.

[Brandon B]

the life expectancy of a current plasma is about 60,000 hours til half life. Do the math junior77blue. That's a good 18 years of usage @ 10 hours per day! I know most people don't use their TV 10 hours a day 7 days a week for almost 20 years. And the price of plasmas are falling at a quicker rate than any other technology. And there's no technology that can look as sharp and vibrant as plasma because nothing else is direct-view. This is of course, based on my views. Bottom line, with all the new technologies coming out, who knows there might be a 3 chip DLP RP tvs coming out soon that will eliminate rainbows and screendoor, but I'll still take a direct view w/ a slim panel design for less than 80 lbs over anything else.

A FP would be my 2nd choice, but then you'd still have to worry about ambient light, fan noise, and light bulb replacement, just don't seem practical enough of a everyday display. Unless you have room to go big with a FP 60'' + it's just not worth the hassle.

I am not convinced at all that plasmas have solved their life expectancy issues to the degree that you can claim 60,000 hours to half brightness. As you have noted elsewhere, there is absolutely no empirical data to back that up.

If I were buying a 60" RPTV today, it would be a JVC. They are brighter than CRT, DLP or LCD RPs, do not (obviously) have rainbow issues, and have great colorimetry and geometry once calibrated. They lose on black level, to CRT and DLP, but that's about the only negative IMO.

And if you hunt around, the 61" can be had for $4K.

BB

[BlazeMaster]

you're right Brandon, the 60,000 hours to half life is based on whatever they use to simulate everyday usage to about 60,000 hours. I'm sure no one have had a plasma long enough to justify that 10 year usage. Basically, if it were to fail it would most likely do so within the first 100 hours out of the box. Assuming you were to buy one from an authorized dealer, the manufacture warranty would cover it within the first couple of hundred hours at least.

If I was forced to buy a RPTV today, I think it'll be either the DLPs or the JVC DILA also. For some reason, I still prefer the direct-view pictures. The DLPs just always seem really digital and artificial, due to the screen door I think. The DILA's strength is that the pixels are much closer together, so you can sit really close without seeing the pixels, but as mentioned before black levels are lacking.

There just really isn't a perfect technology right now, and out of all the digital displays I've seen, plasmas are my choice, because it's direct-view and it takes up no floor space.

[aud19]

Buy something cheap for now and save up for an SED set in a couple years :rofl:

[Shane Martin]

Do they make 55" CRT TVs? If so , they must be 450 lbs

200 lbs actually. ON wheels. Easy to maneuver.

[Brandon B]

Some interesting clarification on plasma half brightness ratings. From this article:

"For the current generation of plasma displays the spec is typically 60,000 hours, which is about 20 years at 8 hours per day. However, like LCDs, there is a crucial yet subtle and often obscure or unreported factor in these lifetimes: it's the Average Picture Level APL for those published specifications. For computer CRTs it's generally a 100 percent APL, but for plasma displays in video applications it's a much lower 15 to 25 percent APL, which is the average for most video content. So if you're watching typical video then it will take 20 years to reach 50 percent luminance (but if your APL is higher it will be proportionally less). "

BB