Converting InFocus LP640 to entry-level HT TV Layout Help Please

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  • SomeoneYouKnow
    Junior Member
    • Oct 2004
    • 4

    Converting InFocus LP640 to entry-level HT TV Layout Help Please

    Heya guys,

    I really need your help evaluating if I should even get involved with a FPJ setup for my current location. I have been given an InFocus 640 LCD projector with less than 40hrs on it that a good friend used for meetings before moving out of his old building.

    Anyways, so here are my viewing habits.

    1) I enjoy watching TV maybe only 10-15 hrs per week. (( No more time lately ))
    2) I enjoy mostly Satellite TV, with the occasional (well frequently lately) Sopranos DVD.
    3) I would want to use 4:3 aspect as I am not a big fan of the widescreen TVs.
    4) My seven year old daughter also enjoys watching Discovery Kids and outdoor adventure shows.
    5) ReplayTV playback ALL the time ¡V the occasional X-Box game and of course UFC & Pride fights!

    I currently have NO knowledge about HT, except for what I have learned over the past few sleepless nights reading my arse off and searching all the forums I could find and reading just about every FAQ that seemed relevant.


    What I currently have :

    1) A 29" CRT TV ¡V so you can tell I'm not a huge fan of big tvs, what I am a fan of is CLEAR PICTURE. .
    2) Bose Home Theater Surround Sound System
    3) Plenty of connections for fresh TV input ( ie. Sat, DVD, ReplayTV, InternetMovies, Xbox )

    I don't even know if what I want to do is possible which is why I am asking here! I would like to have a basic projection TV that is no larger than lets say 60" diagonal -- because to me personally that is quite large. I'd like to

    1) Make my own screen to hang/mount on the wall. (( Do-Able is fine for starters ))
    2) Use it at ANY time of the day ¡V including morning when there is ambient light in the room.
    3) Have a nice crisp clean color-true picture (which I am assuming is not totally possible with what I have learned about LCD projectors in general)
    4) I don't want to change my living room around (rearrange furniture)
    5) I'd like it to have comparable quality to a RPTV ¡V possible???
    6) In the near future I'd like to build a $2-3K HTPC that handles EVERYTHING.


    What I have learned so far myself before asking through searching/FAQs (please confirm/deny)

    1) There are inhearant drawbacks to LCD projectors.
    a) They were not made for TV so their color representation is not as crisp
    b) They fade after many hours of use
    c) They don't change the image as quickly (not as smooth) as DLP ??

    2) The unit that I own ( the entire reason for even getting started ) is designed for office/corporate meeting/conference projection of computer images.
    a) Apparently the resolution is nice and high ¡V enough for HDTV. I am also happy with the 4:3 AR since I will mainly be watching "TV" as opposed to widescreen movies -- what I DON'T like is the 300:1 CR
    b) The stats on it are very nice apparently other than the 300:1 CR it appears to be a pretty darn good projector

    InFocus LP640 projector specs, projector reviews and current street prices.



    The "Living room" part of this room places the couches 14 feet from the mirrored wall and about 9 feet wide. ( I have included pictures in the next posts ))

    Here are the picts of the current layout - the vertical blinds for this window are out for repair - so this is not the normal amount of light/glare in the room.

    I've been looking for a reason to take down that god awful 70s style mirror behind my TV.

    Here's the seating area - I'd rather not re-arrange the coutches if possible.

    And finally - a closer picture of where I'd want to place the DIY screen I make. . .
    Have a look.


    Here are my questions to end this quite lengthy post (( thanks for taking YOUR time to read this far about *my* problem ))

    1) Is this even possible to consider doing in my current room with my current projector.
    2) Mounting this unit as close as possible and projecting a fairly small image ie. 60" diagonal how high an image quality am I realistically going to get?
    3) How bad is the 300:1 contrast ratio really going to be for an entry level HT use? IE. could you help compare it to the quality of a RPTV ¡V because I have seen those before.


    Any and ALL help - in any form whatsoever would be appreciated greatly!


    SomeoneYouKnow - a HT Newbie - JustLearninHT

    (( this is also posted at AVS - however - not to cross-post - just to get ideas from those that dont visit both forums on a regular basis ))
    Attached Files
  • Brandon B
    Super Senior Member
    • Jun 2001
    • 2193

    #2
    1) Make my own screen to hang/mount on the wall. (( Do-Able is fine for starters ))
    2) Use it at ANY time of the day ¡V including morning when there is ambient light in the room.
    3) Have a nice crisp clean color-true picture (which I am assuming is not totally possible with what I have learned about LCD projectors in general)
    4) I don't want to change my living room around (rearrange furniture)
    5) I'd like it to have comparable quality to a RPTV ¡V possible???
    6) In the near future I'd like to build a $2-3K HTPC that handles EVERYTHING.
    1 - easily doable.
    2 - ain't gonna happen with a front projector - ambient light will wash out your image rather badly at higher levels, significantly at lower levels. If the screen is going where your TV is and you aren't going to have some serious blinds, this is going to absolutely destroy your image.
    3 - Whoever told you LCDs have problems delivering correct color and crisp pictures in incorrect. What they do that is a problem is have visible pixel related artifacts compared to DLP or DILA and poorer CR in general, although there are some noteable exceptions to this coming out right now. The reason this unit will have less than optimal color is that it is a business machine.
    4 - Should be doable (altough that one lamp is about to tip over, I'd move that).
    5 - Not with the projector you have. Although at 60", it will look better a lot better than a old non-hidef RPTV except for contrast.
    6 - see below.

    Now all that said - The projector you have is not terrible except in contrast performance. Not real good, but not terrible. Being a presentation targetted unit, it will have sacrificed color fidelity and contrast for brightness. Which it has plenty of, which gives you some workability here.

    Looking at your space, I would say you should bail on the plan to do a front projected setup and try and build your own RP setup using this projector. I had contemplated this using a small Epson HT unit myself, and if you already have the PJ, it is doable for a pretty small amount of money (a sheet of the correct plastic, and some mirrors). Reasons to do this:

    With as much brightness as this thing has, you can use a dark plastic that will still give you a super bright image, but one that rejects ambient light well just like an RPTV.

    You only want a 60" image, which means the throw will be shorter and the mirrors therefore smaller.

    No issues of mounting the PJ over your head on the wall or on a table in front of you, and no running cables to it across the room.

    Let me know if this idea interests you at all, and I'll do a little layout of what would be required, and get you a link to get the plastic we use to do this kind of thing at work.

    On the HTPC thing, you can get a pretty fair HT PJ now for pretty close to $1000 that will toast the one you have. I'd say you'd be far better served to cap the HTPC at $2K and get such a projector.

    BB

    Comment

    • SomeoneYouKnow
      Junior Member
      • Oct 2004
      • 4

      #3
      Thanks Bb -->

      BB – First of all – thanks for taking your time to respond to my post – was wondering if the combination of my low post count and too much information was boring the senior members. Thanks for volunteering your time towards MY project.

      Originally posted by Brandon B
      . . . What they do that is a problem is have visible pixel related artifacts compared to DLP or DILA and poorer CR in general, although there are some noteable exceptions to this coming out right now. The reason this unit will have less than optimal color is that it is a business machine. . . .
      From what I read – I expected it to be worse than it actually is – since I am not a videophile I think I will be able to live through the next 4-5 months till I get my HTPC system up and running << rubs hands together >>

      4 - Should be doable (altough that one lamp is about to tip over, I'd move that).
      LOL – didn’t notice that till you mentioned it – it was sitting partially on the brick hearth and partly on the carpet

      5 - Not with the projector you have. Although at 60", it will look better a lot better than a old non-hidef RPTV except for contrast.
      Ahhhhh - << Sighs >>

      6 - see below.
      Now I’m getting EXCITED!!

      Now all that said - The projector you have is not terrible except in contrast performance. Not real good, but not terrible. Being a presentation targetted unit, it will have sacrificed color fidelity and contrast for brightness. Which it has plenty of, which gives you some workability here.
      Cool – that makes me feel better – options – gotta love them!


      Looking at your space, I would say you should bail on the plan to do a front projected setup and try and build your own RP setup using this projector.
      REALLY – I’d be QUITE interested – although it seems pretty bright even as a FPJ – come morning sun will tell though.

      and if you already have the PJ, it is doable for a pretty small amount of money (a sheet of the correct plastic, and some mirrors). Reasons to do this:

      With as much brightness as this thing has, you can use a dark plastic that will still give you a super bright image, but one that rejects ambient light well just like an RPTV.

      You only want a 60" image, which means the throw will be shorter and the mirrors therefore smaller.


      No issues of mounting the PJ over your head on the wall or on a table in front of you, and no running cables to it across the room.

      Let me know if this idea interests you at all, and I'll do a little layout of what would be required, and get you a link to get the plastic we use to do this kind of thing at work.
      Interests me at all?? – I’m past SOLD – if you would have told me the parts, I would have bought them already – just kidding – but really – I’m VERY interested – and willing to read up on it if you can point me in the right direction.

      On the HTPC thing, you can get a pretty fair HT PJ now for pretty close to $1000 that will toast the one you have. I'd say you'd be far better served to cap the HTPC at $2K and get such a projector.
      That is what I will plan on doing then – and move this one out to the garage/game room with the pool table.

      THANKS

      JustLearninHT
      Last edited by SomeoneYouKnow; 28 October 2004, 11:28 Thursday.

      Comment

      • SomeoneYouKnow
        Junior Member
        • Oct 2004
        • 4

        #4
        Oh - and the Vertical Blinds that cover that widow are just missing because we had to have the track repaired - they dont block out ALL light - but they take the glare off - and darken the room for sure.

        I'm so excited about my new toy!

        Comment

        • Brandon B
          Super Senior Member
          • Jun 2001
          • 2193

          #5
          Forgot to explain the reasoning behind RP. Since an RP screen is designed to let light through (obviously), ambient light striking it also mostly goes through it, where it is (hopefully) captured by the black light absorbing surfaces inside the unit, instead of reflecting back to you and washing out the picture.

          OK, first off, the plastic is Atoglas cast acrylic sheet called (variously in different places) Black'n'white or black/white. It is referred to as a day/night plastic, as it is a medium dark grayish matte color that appears white when back lit, due to its surface layer. It is used in the signage industry. We use it all the time as a cheap RP material.

          It should be available at any plastic supply house. Speaking of which, where are you? 'Cause I have some.

          To get a 60" diagonal 4x3 screen out of the LP640 at max zoom, throw is about 6'4" according to projectorcentral's calculator, which may not be exact, so you probably want to shine this thing on a wall and get a 60" image from as close as possible, then measure the distance from the wall to the lens (level horizontally) to find out what it will actually be. If it is farther than 6.4", the pedestal height of the layout I have done would probably have to get a bit taller.

          Attached is a JPEG of a layout for a 60" screen. As this projector does not have a super short throw (distance to screen/screen width) even at max zoom (about 1.6:1), and to get a 3' tall screen (60" diagonal 4x3), this setup will require a bit over 3 feet of depth. I am assuming you want the screen off the ground somewhat, and have put it at about a 26" tall support which will have the projector mounted inside (and upside down to make the mirror setup work properly). Within this "stand" though you will have a 15" deep x 14" tall space just below the screen the full width where you could put stuff like a center channel speaker, etc.

          You would need 2 mirrors. A small one, a bit over 10"x10" for then first bounce, and a fairly large one, about 53"x48" (this one would be the one right behind the screen at 45 degrees). You would need to position these pretty accurately and support them well enough so that they did not sag or bow. THe little one would be shiny side up, so it might require some cleaning occasionally for dust. The other one would probably not get dusty very fast as it would be aimed downward. These can be regular "closet door" type mirror material from any glass shop, although on the smaller one you might want to go for something a little better optically since any flaws in it will be magnified.

          Width on the setup would be just the mirror support and screen framing you want so you could probably get it under 52" or so. You would also want to line the inside of this setup with some kind of fuzzy black cloth to kill light spill.

          The layout shows the projector and beam dotted out behind the setup as if it were a regular straight projection so you can see how the image is being folded. It also assumes that this projector is intended to project from a position even with the bottom of the screen (most are close to this). If it turns out to have some offset, the projectors position in the pedestal might move up or down.

          This PJ vents out the side, which is good, but the connectors are all on the back, so space might be a little tight for hookup of stiff cabling. This space can be increased by making the unit taller though (which would also make the small mirror a bit smaller.

          My guess to build this whole thing would be something around $200, more if you are going to turn it into fine furniture. You need to build a solid frame to support the big mirror, which also needs to be done to fairly precise tolerances for angle and position (1/8" or so). Screen wants to be support well and not bowed also. What you will end up with is an image that is nice and bright, no reflections like normal and RP TVs (black white has a dull matte surface finish), but might have a little geometric distortion (I would guess not noticeable on any programming, but if you put up a grid test pattern it would be discernible), and due to the big mirror being veryclose to the screen at the top, under high ambient light conditions you might notice a little washout of the image in the top 10% of the screen as the light enters the cabinet and reflects back onto the screen.

          Oh, projector needs to hang upside down in this configuration (although because of the mirror setup, you would still set it to table top mode in the menu). If this really bugs you or if you want the unit lower, the whole mirror setup can be flipped and the projector be above the screen.

          Also, don't know if this unit has a infrared sensor on the rear of it (many do). If not, you might need to get a little IR repeater to make controlling it a little more friendly.

          Projector is shown actual size, BTW.
          BB
          Attached Files

          Comment

          • SomeoneYouKnow
            Junior Member
            • Oct 2004
            • 4

            #6
            BB,

            Thanks for your post, thoughts and time. It definitely allowed me to understand what was involved in a RPTV before I got started :T

            Here's what I have so far - Please keep in mind it is only until the blinds get back from repair.

            These pictures are from the middle of the day when the light is heaviest in the room. The first picture (with Edwards) is with a flash - so it appears washed out. The second picture (with the president) is normal - this is enough brightness during the day for me - if it is not bright enough - I need to be out doing some work or something other than sitting on my couch wondering why my TV isn’t bright enough. :lol:


            I used Blackout Cloth stretched on a PVC frame for a screen. Seems to work alright. I'm pretty happy with the results for spending about $20.

            The projector I hung from the ceiling with a mount that I made out of wood, hooks and chain. The current problem (aside from the wires not being permanent - until I get the good ones I have ordered -) is that it hangs down far - and is subject to any movement (which should be corrected when the wires are hung properly)

            Anyways - THANKS for the tips BB and I'd appreciate some more tips from the other veteran posters about how to make this "temporary" (well for like 3 months till I really get going. . . .) setup better

            Thanks Guys!

            SYK
            Attached Files

            Comment

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