Table saw

[TEK]

Hi

I'm in the marked for a table saw.
I will use it to rip hardwood up to decent size as well as for presition work.
For the largest sheet cutting I will probably continue to use my festool saw with guide rail.

I'm playing with the idea about importing/getting one of your us saw.
If I'm getting one from here it will most likely be a Makita 2704 - but I'm not to sure that is the type of saw I really wont.
The saw will be permanently placed in my garage shop, but I might need to move it out of the way when not used, and it may not take the whole floor space as I also need room for my router table, workbench and other stuff...

In Norway there is typical a few saws that comes out of this type of discussions. The Makita above is one of them. Bosh gtx 10 another one.
Is there a few saws over there that stands out as well?

[Steve Manning]

What's your budget TEK?

[TEK]

Not defined jet.
Let start around 1000 usd for a saw from your part of the world (have to add taxes and so on). But I can move it down or up if needed...
The Makita is around 800 usd here.

[oneplustwo]

Are you interested in a saw stop? I personally went BIG and got the professional version a couple years ago. They have a jobsite version that might fit your needs well although it's a little above your budget. That said, the cost of safety features more than offsets the potential of a major injury. My orders of magnitude I would argue. Although it's still a serious tool and not immune to all accidents, the blade retraction mechanism sure does give me peace of mind.

[TEK]

Are you interested in a saw stop? I personally went BIG and got the professional version a couple years ago. They have a jobsite version that might fit your needs well although it's a little above your budget. That said, the cost of safety features more than offsets the potential of a major injury. My orders of magnitude I would argue. Although it's still a serious tool and not immune to all accidents, the blade retraction mechanism sure does give me peace of mind.

Yes, absolutley. This is the exact type of input I'm after.
There seems to be a lot of different option and sizes (=a lot of choices).
Looks like the "Industrial Cabinet Saw" might fit quite well. It seems like there is a 220@50hz option for the engine as well.
Interesting...

Checked a bit more. Quite pricy. It does 31/8" cuts and has a 1,75hp motor (about 1300watt). And it seems that at least rockler are selling the job site version from 1300 usd and the jobsite edition from 1600 usd.
My Festool plunge saw is 1200w. That is to little for the more heavy cutting I do and I do have to wait for it to cool down quite some times. A 2-3hp motor would be preferrable, I think.

The Makita takes deeper cuts and has more power for quite a lower cost.
The safty feature is of course hands on better on the saw stop, but how much better is the saw/table itself? And is the price I have found "right"?

[dar47]

Hum, that 1.5 horse is a contractor saw. With room in your shop and 220 you may want to consider 3 horse. I have a Delta 1.5 horse BELT drive. Don't consider a direct drive as belt has more power and feed back when stalling. I would think along these lines,

1. as big a motor as you can, if you ever want to dado.
2. 30" as you can build an extension around the saw if you have room.
3. Cast iron top no cheap steel extension from the body. Some saws have gadgets but slip in steel extensions.
4. Fence system you can spend a $500. alone on a fence. Biesemeyer or Excalibur.
5. How adjustable is the table for true straight cuts.
6. even if it is an industrial type body saw has to have wheels.

Saws All is a nice product for people with limited table saw experience but your paying for it. Since you have your track saw maybe 30" 1.5 - 2.0 Horse is all you need but get a good fence and miter gauge for it.

[Steve Manning]

Since you have been looking at the Woodwhisperer ......... http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/vide...ode=posts&ap=1. I know he is a big fan of Powermatic, though your getting in the 2 to 3K range for new. If your wanting to stay closer to the $1K amount, http://grizzly.com/ has some pretty decent stuff. I know if you get into the cabinet maker size, Delta, Sawstop, Powermatic are all going to be good stuff.

[knowledgebass]

Since you have the Festool, which can do plenty that a table saw can, have you given any thought to what you think a table saw will help you do that your track saw can't?

How about a band saw? I suggest band saw because I have a table saw but at this point I wish I had a band saw to breakdown hardwood.

[TEK]

Shortlist so far:
US models:
Powermatic PM1000 - usd 2.1k
Grizzly G1023 - usd 1.4k 5hp motor
SawStop Contractors saw - usd 1.7k
SawStop Professional Cabinet Saw - usd 2.5k

Or if I'm trying to keep within the "budget":
Grizzly G0771 - usd 700 (on sale)

Or the Makita 2704 at usd 600 (comparable price when considering tax)

[TEK]

Since you have the Festool, which can do plenty that a table saw can, have you given any thought to what you think a table saw will help you do that your track saw can't?

How about a band saw? I suggest band saw because I have a table saw but at this point I wish I had a band saw to breakdown hardwood.

Yes:
- Ripping (hard)wood of different sizes is almost impossible to do well with the track saw. For example ripping a 2"x6" into 2"x2" or 1"x1" or whatever.
- Ripping several pieces with the same with
- Jigs, for example for tenon joints
- Angels, almost any angle. A lot of work to find and make an angled cut with the track saw

Track saw is great for ripping large sheets where you have room on both side of the sheet.
But when you start to make those smaller cut's, smaller areas, and anything that is less than 25" it's just a lot of work and fiddeling around to get the guide setup up. For smaller cut's you will also have to create supports on both side of the guide to get it steady enough. And then you have to be lucky enough to have something to fasten the guide onto.

So, there is a lot of usages I want it for...

[knowledgebass]

A table saw will do all those things but I'm not sure it is necessarily the best tool for all of them.

• A table saw is very good at cutting/ripping boards to the same width very quickly. It is the best tool for this job.
• It can be challenging to repeat very narrow cuts of material. E.g. you shouldn't put the narrow side of the stock against the fence if you're trying to get a 1/8" piece for instance, the smaller side should be away from the fence.
• It can be dangerous to cut very thick stock (e.g. 4x4 that you cut one way and then flip to cut the other side, this can pinch the blade and turn it into a projectile).
• You should have two finished, 90° edges on a board before you think about running it through a table saw which means extra steps with rough stock, or you can use a specialized jig to clamp it to a sliding board.
• A table saw requires special jigs for cutting angles. I've read that the adjustable jigs commonly sold aren't all that safe and aren't all that useful for large stock (like full size speakers). Here's a fixed angle jig I made for my speaker build. It used a lot of material and took up a lot of space so much of the material in that jig has lived on as other shop jigs and I'll need to make another next time I have an angle cut:
  [url=https://flic.kr/p/fKaSgu]

• 
• They are good/fast for cutting dado groves (aside for requiring blade changes). A router can do this too.
• They can cut tenons with dado or vertical jig (I don't care for the vertical jigs).
• I guess you could also cut tongue and grooves with it too.
• I've even seen someone make a bowl with a jig on Youtube but can't say I'd recommend it

Aside from tongue and grooves (which I just thought of and could be useful for my workbench build), I've tried all of the above on a table saw. I've never been seriously injured, and some of it I would say was dumb luck (i.e. cutting thick stock in two passes), but I do walk through every cut before powering up the saw so I can see where the moving parts will end up relative to my body, where to keep my hands, where I should stand, and where to put feather boards etc to prevent/reduce kickback.

So why do I suggest you consider a band saw? I recently read a suggestion encouraging revision to the generic, long-held recommendation that a table saw be the first tool a new woodworker obtains and that the band saw should be recommended in place as a more versatile, and safer tool (I think it came from Chris Schwarz's tool chest book, although I think he may have put a joiner first). Since I personally bought a table saw first, I at first dismissed this suggestion, but having the idea worm around in my brain a few months I'm coming around to the other side. You can't do a dado with a band saw, but you can do everything else and more, and in a lot of cases you can do it safer (including tenons, curves, rough stock, and resawing wide stock). There have been a number of fiddly little operations I've thought up on the table saw only to lay them out and abort due to difficulties safely holding the work. You can still remove a finger at the knuckle with a band saw but you would need to work at it harder. I won't mislead you by saying it will rip better/faster than a table saw but a lot beginners start out with under powered undersized table top saws, or don't bother upgrading blades and their rip cuts require cleanup after cutting anyway, and in your case, for wide rips, you still have your track saw, so you're probably not looking at a great big cabinet saw to begin with.

I don't believe you're a beginner, or that you don't know your work flow well enough to know what you're going to use a table saw for. I do know that I'm at a point where I think a band saw would get more use in my shop than that table saw sitting in the middle of my garage. I now find myself wishing I had at least considered the option. I'm not sure what I would have done things different in the past because I was working with large panels at the time and didn't have a good track saw, but for the $500 I put in my saw, and the other $500+ in dado blade, plywood and hardwood blades, I could have gotten a good used band saw, a cutting guide and some good blades for my skill saw. Rip cuts would take longer on a band saw, but I'd be able to resaw my own stock, and wouldn't need to pre-flatten rough stock before ripping to rough dimensions, cut tenon cheeks, cut curves, and do little fiddly cuts that are difficult to set up on a table saw.

[dar47]

Ya, the Powermatic is nice but you may not need all that table space. The Grizzly has everything to do hardwood, dado's and there is no replacement for displacement! You just need to add a miter gauge, I like these,

Image not available

Wonder if it is the saw first then that big bench you have been thinking of. :W This is a worm hole though next Band saw or drill press and how is that budget for a top plainer and jointer large sliding compound miter and dust extraction.:B

[Hank]

Several years ago I bought a Jet contractor's table saw with upgrade fence and have never regretted it - it's cut hundreds of MDF speaker parts.

[TEK]

Knowledgebase: thanks for your input, I greatly appriciate it.
Dar: you are spot on, and that is actual a consern.

I want a table saw. A real, nice, big table saw. That takes up a lot of space. The current runner up is a Grizzly G0691 (I think it's this one: http://www.harveymachinery.com/produ...ductId=33.html, meaning I can probably get it with a 220v/50hz motor).
When I show it to my wife she first gets a very strange face, and then starts to remind me that we need to be able to use our basememt under the garage (she is actually talking about my DIY woodshop) for storing stuff as well and that I cannot use all the space:roll:
And yes, I want a bandsaw, and a planer, and a lathe, and a new big nice old fashioned work bench with a nice leg vise and double end vise... 8O

My name is TEK and I have a woodworking equipment adiction problem ops:

[knowledgebass]

And yes, I want a bandsaw, and a planer, and a lathe, and a new big nice old fashioned work bench with a nice leg vise and double end vise... 8O

My name is TEK and I have a woodworking equipment adiction problem ops:

Don't forget to buy some wood too! That's my wife's great contention. She can't get over how expensive wood is

[TEK]

Btw, I'm going to do a serious evaluation of the SawStop saws as well. With 3 kits growing up and a work where fingers are a nice thing to have that saftey feature from SawStop has might be worth the extra cost. Especially after knowledbase has scared the shit out of me :sos:
If I'm going for a SawStop I will have to go down a step or two in size and motor compared to the Grizzly saws
Wifi will be wery happy - both for less size and the safety feature.
I'm a bit supriced that other has not delivered the same or simular safty mechanism :scratchhead:

[Steve Manning]

I'm going to through in my $.02 worth on the SawStop. I have not used one of their saws, though the pro versions look rather nice and I've heard some decent things about them, though I've heard that other saws perform better as far as being a saw. Chances are if I had the cash I'd get one of the big ones. The built in blade safety feature is a nice extra, though it can't be used all the time .... if your wood has too much moisture in it, it will trip the brake, that's a new brake assembly and blade, ouch. Most issues with table saws happen from improper use and plain stupidity, been there, bounced a chunk of 2 X 4 off my chin (saw lots of stars on that one). Bottom line, plan your cuts (think about what could happen), use the appropriate safety devices, riving knife, blade guard, pushing devices, etc. and pay attention to what your doing and not rush. Accidents can and will happen, you can prevent a lot of them. By what will best suit your needs and get the best that fits into your budget. Descend soapbox ......

[---k---]

I'm not skilled enough with a table saw to know the difference between a good and a bad. But, my old neighbor had a StopSaw Professional. He did a fair amount of wood working. Cabinets and bookcases and stuff beyond your cheep MDF projects, but maybe not quite Fine Woodworking Magazine quality. He liked it a lot. It replaced an old Delta table saw or the like.

It was solid and well built. The thing about the StopSaw that he said, yes you're paying a premium for the fancy tech to save your fingers, but it is a nice saw that could _almost_ justify the price without. It isn't like fancy tech shoved into a cheep box. It is like a Tesla car. Tesla's sell because the quality is there to compete with the BMW's and Mercedes. Compared to a Chevy Volt where they just stuck electric drive into their economy car chassis and dress it up a little.

A few years back, I thought the StopSaws prices were a joke. I was young and dumb and willing to throw caution to the wind. Now, today, a few years after learning how lucky I was to be unharmed by those kick backs I'm still not skilled enough to use the best saw on the market; so spending the extra dollars on safety instead of better precision or features I may not use is sounding good.

As for others, that's how patent work. I thought I read somewhere that a couple of the big boys had something similar, but weren't popular yet.

[TEK]

I'm struggeling a bit with figuring out of the pricing - but the initial impression is that it is very expensive.
But from the reviews and so on it seems as if folks think they are excellent quality and right up there with the best ones at comparable prices.
However, "up there" might be quite a bit higher than what my need/want is.
Hope to get a bit better understanding of the pricing before makimg any decition. But, if I go SawStop I do expect this to maybe outlast me...

Regarding the SawStop safety feature. I hope and have a goal that I will never ever need it!
But IF I against all excpectation do need it I sure will ve happy for it.
(I do not think that anybody expect to cut off their bodyparts).

[Steve Manning]

I'm not skilled enough with a table saw to know the difference between a good and a bad. But, my old neighbor had a StopSaw Professional. He did a fair amount of wood working. Cabinets and bookcases and stuff beyond your cheep MDF projects, but maybe not quite Fine Woodworking Magazine quality. He liked it a lot. It replaced an old Delta table saw or the like.

It was solid and well built. The thing about the StopSaw that he said, yes you're paying a premium for the fancy tech to save your fingers, but it is a nice saw that could _almost_ justify the price without. It isn't like fancy tech shoved into a cheep box. It is like a Tesla car. Tesla's sell because the quality is there to compete with the BMW's and Mercedes. Compared to a Chevy Volt where they just stuck electric drive into their economy car chassis and dress it up a little.

A few years back, I thought the StopSaws prices were a joke. I was young and dumb and willing to throw caution to the wind. Now, today, a few years after learning how lucky I was to be unharmed by those kick backs I'm still not skilled enough to use the best saw on the market; so spending the extra dollars on safety instead of better precision or features I may not use is sounding good.

As for others, that's how patent work. I thought I read somewhere that a couple of the big boys had something similar, but weren't popular yet.

Your right about the prices Ryan ....... though these days it seems most of the big brands are coming in at about the same price range, without the safety brake. I had followed what had become the SawStop "saga" where they were trying to get regulations past so that every saw had to have a similar blade brake ....... since they own the patent, it would of course have to come from them. convenient! If your going to spend that kind of money though and it's just as good, I'd certainly get one.

TEK, I thought stuff like this was common in your neck of the woods, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwVE2FzJ_eQ. My understanding of this type of saw is that the design makes them inherently safer? Though, even used these are painfully expensive. I think you can get 5 or 6 new Sawstop's for the price of one of these bad boy's. I think this would certainly meet your criteria of a big saw though.

[TEK]

He, he :-)
That's a saw for sure! And to big - even for me at my most crazy moment.
There are however other and smaller versioms of these - but I have not found the english names for them. That is a track I might look a bit more into.

When it comes to SawStop, that option is off the table after receiving this info from them:
"Any of our saws that are exported out of their native country which it was purchased would lose its warranty."

[---k---]

That sucks.

[Steve Manning]

That does suck ..... it should not matter where the saw lives. That kind of jives with some of the things I've heard about their company policies, good saw, owners are a bit on the greedy side.

TEK, Grizzly carries sliding table saws. You also have Felder, Altendorf, just do a search for sliding table saws, you will get a bunch of hits.

[TEK]

Thanks a lot.
Sliding table saw seems to give me a lot more hit's in Europe. And they do come in reasonable sizes as well.

As this one for example:

http://www.warco.co.uk/woodworking-bandsaws-wood-saws/302915-sliding-table-saw.html

Around 1200 usd inc 19%VAT

Image not available

(This is just one example of a saw I found - have not done any checking of the brand and quality jet)


On the other hand, I want this ;-)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b-NGFQCDlhw

Another thing. I notice that some (cheaper) saws make a lot of noise, while other is so silent you barley can hear anything but the blade spinning.
Does anyone know what causes this difference?

[---k---]

That does suck ..... it should not matter where the saw lives. That kind of jives with some of the things I've heard about their company policies, good saw, owners are a bit on the greedy side.

To be fair, I'm guessing it is the cost of servicing the warranty. Setting up a dealer network for a low volume item is a big costly undertaking. Without a dealer network, who is going to do the repairs? Shipping that kind of saw around the world is cost prohibitive.

But also to be fair, StopSaw has reportedly been tenacious in trying to get their patented technology legally required and wants exorbitant patent royalties.


Tek,
With the Grizzly, do they sell to Europe? Do they have local or are they shipping? How is the shipping and cost? Is it still comparative to what you can by locally? Do you have any country of Sweden local dealers / product lines. I've exhausted what I can offer to the conversation, but am very curious about what options you have over there and what it takes to import something from the US. Importing one unit seems crazy to me, but maybe the cost work.

[Steve Manning]

To be fair, I'm guessing it is the cost of servicing the warranty. Setting up a dealer network for a low volume item is a big costly undertaking. Without a dealer network, who is going to do the repairs? Shipping that kind of saw around the world is cost prohibitive.

But also to be fair, StopSaw has reportedly been tenacious in trying to get their patented technology legally required and wants exorbitant patent royalties.


Tek,
With the Grizzly, do they sell to Europe? Do they have local or are they shipping? How is the shipping and cost? Is it still comparative to what you can by locally? Do you have any country of Sweden local dealers / product lines. I've exhausted what I can offer to the conversation, but am very curious about what options you have over there and what it takes to import something from the US. Importing one unit seems crazy to me, but maybe the cost work.

Your absolutely right with both points Ryan and I was also wondering the same thing with Grizzly.

[TEK]

No, Grizzly does not sell to Europe. They are more friendly tuned, but in practice they have almost the same policy as SawStop, but not that rigid.
This is what they say: "Operating our machines on an electrical supply for which they were not designed will void our product warranty" (referring to the different between the USA 110V/60Hz vs. Norwegian 220-240V@50Hz).
So, you can take it out of the country, but need to run it on the right power. That's fair enough.
They do also not ship to Europe, nor do they help/assist or in any other way associate themself with the items being taken out of the USA. I assume that is because they will be banned from the European marked if they sell products lacking the CE mark - and I assume they do not have it.

The way around those limitations - that is so well known that you have your own companies handling it - is to set up a USA address, get the items shipped there and then let a carrier take it from there. The carrier will handle all import related issues so the process itself is quite simple.
I'm not sure what the extra cost for a table saw will be, but with sea freight it's not necessarily all that bad. Many have done it before me.

However, as at least some of the Grizzly might be available directly from the factory in China, with motor for the right power, it seems like a better deal to go directly to the factory if possible.

When it comes to Norway - that's the problem - there is very little to select from regarding this type of saw.
We have a good selection of portable tables saws. There we have several types from Bosh, Dewalt, Makita, Metabo, Festool and similar.
Between those saw this is the one I would choose: http://www.makita.no/tool/14964/2704.html


This is the largest Makita saw available in Norway as far as I know.

We do, very recently, got a few more brands. Like Axmisters (a English shop) house brand.

http://www.gustavsenas.no/bordsager_1379.html

There is also a few shops who have a brand called Jet.
In Norway I think this one, a Jet JTS 600 XL) is the most promising saw I have found.
Compared to getting something from the us, this is in the price range around 1600usd (currently reduced price) when taking tax and so on into consideration.

http://m.finn.no/bap/webstore/ad.html?finnkode=45352739

Used there is mostly huge and extremely heavy machines from old wood-shops for sale. Typical in the class "I have a forklift so I can help you lift it onto a pallet when you come and get it with your truck and crane".
There is also quite some new in the factory size - going for 5000-20000 USD, and that is way over my budget.

But also importing from UK is a very viable option. A lot of tools come from the UK and directly into Norway.
The freight time is less as well.

[dar47]

Not even close if you can get a European slider in your price range go for it. This is where this Canadian will side with that side of the pond's design any day all day. I can't get one here for a reasonable price but I think it's superior especially when you get use to the work flow on a panel saw.for example,

1. Riving Knife, guard with saw dust extraction that you don't have to remove to do any task.
2. Who needs a blade brake that has a limited life and is expensive. When you clamp your work to the slider your hands are never near a blade!
3. A lot of them come with scoring blades for sheet goods.
4. They are in the same foot print size wise as our saws. It's all to the left of the blade you just can't dado on most them, arbor discourages it. But you are already competent with a router for that.
5. No cross cut or miter jigs needed.
6. with 220 you don't have wire new expensive circuits in the work space and your not paying a lot for more power. I like 3 horse, no bogin down, haha.

Only negative is ripping length more then 6'. and there is ways around that. Besides you have a track saw for ripping and sheet break down. I used a little Jet at the place we were using to start the Ardents, not a bad little saw.:W

[TEK]

It's getting closer...
That yet shown above does not have sliding tracks on both side of the table. That makes it less usable for jigs and so on.

AW10BSB2 Saw Bench. This one has that and a 3hp motor, 10" blade (£625)



With extension tables (£767)



Fully "befed" up (£1300)



PS250Panel saw also 3hp motor, 10" blade (£916):




Right now, if I'm going for one of these - it stands between the AW10BSB2 with extension tables (£767) or the PS250 Panel Saw (£916).
I think that the sliding jig for the AW10BSB2 is to expensive. Not sure what I gain/loose with the panel saw...

I'm not to sure how these stack up against for example the Grizzly line. I'm quite sure that they do not stack up against SawStop and those other high-end brands.
But... I'm guess that they will be good enough for my usage.

[---k---]

Tek,
Interesting. I'm surprised there aren't more saw offerings. I always picture your corner of the wood as a bunch of craftsman doing wood working in log cabins out in the woods. Maybe Ikea has killed them all off. It really is fascinating to me to learn about some of these differences.

FWIW, I have seen Jet table saws at my local Woodcraft store. They look nice. I never really gave them a second look though because there were out of my price range.

Those Axmisters look nice for the money. Just roughly converting the pounds to dollar in my head, and that first one looks like more than I could get for $1000. But, it is just a photo and the devil is in the details.

Panel saws seem like a great idea. I swear I use my saw with a sled as often as I do with the fence.


... aren't forums designed to make making decisions tougher.

[Steve Manning]

I've got a Jet jointer and planer and have been happy with them. Got them used, though they were in like new condition.

[knowledgebass]

Not even close if you can get a European slider in your price range go for it. This is where this Canadian will side with that side of the pond's design any day all day. I can't get one here for a reasonable price but I think it's superior especially when you get use to the work flow on a panel saw.

Agree. A friend has one that he got at clearance price that includes the panel scoring blade for sheet goods. It make my Ridgid granite top look like a child's toy and that's before you compare my mitre gauge to his sliding table! They really are the better engineered solution.

[TEK]

I have, and am continueing trying to figure out stuff about these. It's a drag not to be able to go into a shop and check things out.

First I was by a local shop where they sell the Makita 2704.




They also had Dewalt DW745 in the shop.

I have to say that the saw table of the Makita site saw was a lot larger than I had expected it to be.
It also felt quite nicely put together, however the plastic body and knows was not much to talk about. But the saw-table itself seems good and quite precise. The fence did fasten on both side, but it will move several mm between the front and back end if you moved it sideways. Meaning that I would probably have to check it with a angel every time I was to do any precise cut. From what I hear on the videos I have found, the saw runs quite silent, which is a positive thing.
The Makita was better then expected on size, but not very good on precision, so it's just barley hanging in there (mostly due to local availability, cheep compare to the alternatives, wife would be happy and it can - kind of - be stacked away).

I have also tried to figure out stuff on the Axminister AW10BSB2 Saw Bench as well as the PS250 shown above.
First, it's extremely hard to find any info about it. The impression is that it is a china-produced saw and are branded under a lot of name. Also Holzmann.
Very hard to find any reviews of any kind. The few I have found did not look to good. From a few youtube videos I found it seems like the Engine runs quite noizy (compared to for example Grizzly saws), the sliding tracks are "wide" so people are adding stuff to tighten them up, the saw blade is hard to change (hard to get room), no dado blade support. Also when looking at handles and so on it looks flimzy and plastic compared to for example Grizzly saws - again.
So, I'm skeptical - little info to find and what I find is not very good. I think I will steer away...

The Jet I have found a little bit about, and that is mostly positive. Not industrial quality as the more expensive Jet's, but good.




It has a 3.5hp motor (more than most other saws in this range). The fence looks good. How the precision is I cannot tell.

But there are especially two issues that concerns me:
- I do not think it will do dado blades, and I would like a saw that can do dado cuts.
- It has only one track in the table board. There is one in the sliding table.
I'm concerned that will cause jigging to be a challenge. And I will probably build some jigs over time...

Any input regarding the dado and jigging concerns?

My last option is the Harvey HW110LGE-30:


I'm quite sure this is the same as the Grizzly G0690, but in a European version with a 220V@50hz engine. My impression is that this saw is a good step up in quality compared to the other saws.
However, it does not have a sliding table (I may add one, but that's quite much extra).
I do have some issues sourcing it - will have to figure that out before doing a serious evaluation - most likely between the Jet 600 and the HW110LGE-30.

[ergo]

Tek, I'm following your quest with interest too. I would also like to get a good table saw at one point in time and it is equally hard to source these in Estonia.
For now my garage is still waiting for renovation and is too full of 'stuff' after house renovation. But the things you are learning come in handy for future for sure. So thank you and keep up the good work!

[TEK]

OK, some progress.

I have official narrowed this down to two options:
1) The Jet 600
2) The Harvey HW110LGE-30
(I tave also reconsidered the Axminster trade series mentioned before and found some more info. The get miced feedback, many good but amost none excellent. The Harvey saws seems to get extatic reviews all over as far as I can see)

When it comes to prize they are almost the same. The Jet is maybe about 100usd more.
When it comes to pros/cons this is what I have noted:

- Jet had 3.5hp motor vs 3hp on Harvey. Or do it. Axminster states 1.5kw motor one place, and in the spec they state 2.6kw input power.
- Jet has Sliding table, Harvey has not
- Both seems to have very nice fences
- Jet is 160kg vs Harvey's 250kg
- Harvey supports dado blades, do not think jet does (but not sure)
- Harvey is left tilt, Jet has tight tilt
- Harvey has two sliding tracks, Jet has one
- Harvey has easy removable riving knife, not sure about Jet
- Harvey had easy switching blades, not sure about Jet
- When sliding table not in use - Jet is very narrow
- More positive feedback online for Harvey than Jet

I will probably get a full offer from Harley next friday, and then it will be decition time!

BTW, I got a presentation (pdf) for the HW110LGE-30. Have a look if you're interested.
This is the european/australian version that also has the 220v@50hz 3hp motor. The US version is the HW110LG-30 (at least is that my understanding of the model numbers).
The fence (and maybe the gard) is also different in the US version.

[dar47]

Looks nice, full length fence with the riving knife? Usually not needed but nice. This looks like an American design morphed a bit. Looks like you can add a slider later when funds permit so all should be good. and it's got the power you will like for your hardwoods.:T

[Steve Manning]

Looks like power is close ...... a few things that would swing me, for what it's worth, if the Jet does not have them ....

- Harvey supports dado blades, do not think jet does (but not sure)
- Harvey has two sliding tracks, Jet has one
- Harvey has easy removable riving knife, not sure about Jet
- Harvey had easy switching blades, not sure about Jet

[TEK]

As a few of you noticed before, I had some areas on the Jet saw that I was unsure about.
I send a few questions to Axminster to get some more info. Axminster came back to me today. Based on their input and other information I have set up a saw comparison table for myself to see what is important/not important for me, and if that would make the selection easier.
The chart is build up so that I have rated everything that I think influence my choise in one or another way. If something does not actually influence, I have just let it be white.
If something influence me towards getting that saw, it's marked in green.
If something puts me off that saw, it's marked in red.

From my point of view there is a quite clear preferred candidate.



As I assume you can understand, my preferred candidate is the "Harvey HW110LGE-30" aka the european/australian version of the Grizzly G0690.

[---k---]

It sure looks like there is a clear winner. Grizzley's are well loved here for their value.


So often I skip ahead after the first line or too. I was rewarded for reading all the way to the end of your table. Thanks. :T

[Steve Manning]

Sounds like a winner TEK

[TEK]

It sure looks like there is a clear winner. Grizzley's are well loved here for their value.


So often I skip ahead after the first line or too. I was rewarded for reading all the way to the end of your table. Thanks. :T

Must save the best stuff to the last :W

[TEK]

Hmm... happy days. Just got this info:
"The extra ocean freight from Hanghai to Trondheim is USD55.00"

If this turns out to be correct, then I'm very happy and positivly supriced.
Shipping a 250kg saw between two locations within little norway would cost more than that...

[---k---]

Looks like the decimal point is off one digit to me.... but hey... Maybe they have the base freight to UK or Germany in the price and $55 is just the extra to go to Norway... cross your fingers.

[JonMarsh]

That's a pretty good deal on the freight.

Me, I don't have any where to put a DeathStar class saw that weighs so much, so unworthy being that I am, I bought a DeWalt DWE7491 saw on impulse at Lowe's this last weekend, because it was on sale until Monday (good price; I checked online) and because it has a 32" rip capability on the right and a fairly symmetric fence setup with swapping the fence stop and 28" on the left... Still while using the high precision rack and pinion mechanism pioneered by their earlier 10" contractor saw, which I love (have one, best compact 10" saw made, IMO). Except that this bigger one is the best, not too much bigger, does a LOT of stuff, is easy to move around, has a considerably bigger table surface. And it was well under $500.

This second video makes the argument for why the DeWalt 749x series can be a good workshop saw, not just a job site saw, and furthermore, goes through the setup and alignment procedure needed to dial it in optimally.

Did I mention I'm cheap when I can get good to very good for cheap? Yes, I'd love to have a big heavy cabinet saw- no question. Just don't have the means to move one around or the place to install one. Otherwise I might have popped for a Delta 5000 saw (though the fence doesn't compare); one you go down the Delta path you're really got to get a Unisaw with a Beisemeyer fence, or you're just wasting your time...

[TEK]

Congrats Jon, that's looking sweet! :T
BTW, what are you going to do with the saw you already have?

I have had the ability to compare the Dewalt DW745 (it's beeing sold in Norway) to the Makita 2704. That comparison came out with Makita on top.



The 7499 seem to med to be quite a better saw. The patented rail system from Dewalt have got some nice word around here as well.
However, if I would have wanted a Dewalt I would have to either buy one in Norway and then modify it to suit dado blades (have seen someone who have done it, that includes swapping the blade spindle with a longer one) or imported one.
But after falling in love with the Harvey saw all that kind of went out the window...
Of course, going for example for the Makita would mean I would have the saw now.

Going for the Harvey (as I have done) means approx two months of waiting... opcorn:


About the freight. The cost is confirmed to be USD 55. However, it is necessary to clarify what that means...
The cost of the saw itself is stated as FOB.
Then there is the extra USD 55 to get from FOB to CFR.
Changing it from FRC to CIF ups the cost additional USD 50.
I'm wondering about doing that to be insured in case something happens.

That's mens that the initial offer (USD 0 in explicit cost) was FOB (Free On Board).
The sea-freight to get it to CFR (Cost and Freight) to Trondheim is 55 extra.
And if I want the saw to be insured during the sea freight that is 50 extra. A bit unsure if that's necessarily as the most of the risk is during loading and unloading - and loading is covered by CFR and unloading is probably my problem anyway... So, a insurent would realistically cover the cargo falling overboard or the boat sinking - something that probably is a bit unlikely...

And still, from what I can figure out. This is to the port of destination. Charges for getting the goods from the boat and onto the pir, will also apply. Have no idea about how much that can be - but do not expect it to be what ruins me ;-)

So, the real freight cost is what they internal have added to their own cost, 55 for sea-freight and 50 for insurance and ? for getting it off the boat in Trondheim.


FOB, CFR and CFI is terms according to the incoterm 2010;lx. (learning a lot of new stuff here ;-)


FOB Free On Board
“Free On Board” means that the seller delivers the goods on board the vessel nominated by the buyer at the named port of shipment or procures the goods already so delivered. The risk of loss of or damage to the goods passes when the goods are on board the vessel, and the buyer bears all costs from that moment onwards.

CFR Cost and Freight
“Cost and Freight” means that the seller delivers the goods on board the vessel or procures the goods already so delivered. The risk of loss of or damage to the goods passes when the goods are on board the vessel. the seller must contract for and pay the costs and freight necessary to bring the goods to the named port of destination.

CIF Cost, Insurance and Freight
“Cost, Insurance and Freight” means that the seller delivers the goods on board the vessel or procures the goods already so delivered. The risk of loss of or damage to the goods passes when the goods are on board the vessel. The seller must contract for and pay the costs and freight necessary to bring the goods to the named port of destination.