First sub project

[augerpro]

Hi everyone. I finally bought a 12" TC2K and plan on building a sub. This will be in a fairly small box until I finish the basement and can make a proper HT/music room. I'll be using the Buttkicker amp.

Since it's a small sealed box I was thinking of applying some eq, whether that be a 31 band eq, or BFD, or something else. But all of these have balanced outputs which I need to convert to unbalanced. My understanding is the balanced run at a lower voltage so I have to boost the voltage back up so I can get the proper output from my sub? What devices can do this? I've heard good and bad the Cleanbox and as far as I can tell Chuck and Thomas's black box will not do this. What options do I have?

[Dennis H]

Actually, it's the other way around, balanced runs at higher voltage. The only people who need something like a cleanbox are those who have receivers with really anemic sub outputs. Most receivers/pre-pros work just fine and the cleanbox has its own set of problems so you're better off without it if you don't need it.

Edit: PS, I don't know if you saw ChasW's test of the buttkicker over at AVS but it didn't do too well. It's not really meant to be used as an audio amp.

[augerpro]

Ah. So running the sub out from the pre/pro to say a BFD and then to a the buttkicker input (RCA) I should be ok?

I was following that amp test thread, I'll go check that out.

[cjd]

Just snag an A500 so you can go balanced into balanced.

[augerpro]

It crossed my mind. But having a small sealed box requires a lot more power than the A500 can muster, no? What else is out there? The EP2500 of course but it has a loud fan I think?

Looks like the buttkicker is up for sale. Bleh.

[augerpro]

Anyone know how accurate TCsounds specs are? I'm modeling the TC2K and it doesn't seem to benefit a whole lot from a large box. In fact a 53l gross volume models nearly as good as anything bigger. I understand the motor force comes into play with small box volumes but does 53l sound ok? Internal dimensions are 13.5" x 13.5" x 17.7" so that is reasonably small box for room.

EDIT: 43l looks ok actually. Hmmmm

[augerpro]

Ok at 43.5l gross volume I get a Qtc of .56, F3 of 45.7Hz, and I reach 28mm excursion at 15Hz at 800 watts. Sound like a reasonable set up?

[johnfolsom]

If you are really concerned about the balanced to unbalanced connection, you can throw a direct box (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...Box?sku=184303 ) backwards in line (run your XLR into the DI and a 1/4" to RCA out the other side) to do the conversion.

[augerpro]

Ok at 43.5l gross volume I get a Qtc of .56, F3 of 45.7Hz, and I reach 28mm excursion at 15Hz at 800 watts. Sound like a reasonable set up?

Anyone have some advice on the above question?

Also how loud are QSC amps compared to the EP2500? I found this: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=245-690
The sub is the 4 ohm SVC so this amp bridged should give the max rated wattage. But I've heard the TC2K is capable of taking more than the 800 watts it's rated for so I'm not sure.

BTW anyone know how to get rid of birds in an attic? I can hear them sometimes down by the soffit vents but when I go in the attic I can't see down there to see if there is a nest. :evil:

[Dennis H]

As long as you have EQ and plenty of power, box size isn't that big a deal for a sealed design. Build it as big as you can live with (bigger is better) and EQ it flat. About the fan noise, you can buy a quiet Panaflo 24V fan from Digikey for a few bucks. It's a good mod for either a QSC or a Behringer. If that's not quiet enough, you can quiet it down even more with a resistor mod like Chuck did.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?p=244870

[Adam321]

The Behringer EP 2500 will give you a lot more headroom than that QSC. The Behringer has about three times the output of that model for about the same cost. You would have to go with a QSC RMX2450 to get equivalent power. As a matter of fact, I think the EP2500 and RMX2450 are clones.

[augerpro]

Thanks Adam and Dennis! I'll probably go with the EP2500 and do the fan mod. Also I think I'll go with 13.5" x 13.5" x 15" internal for a gross volume of 44.8L.

[littlesaint]

The Behringer EP 2500 will give you a lot more headroom than that QSC. The Behringer has about three times the output of that model for about the same cost. You would have to go with a QSC RMX2450 to get equivalent power. As a matter of fact, I think the EP2500 and RMX2450 are clones.

The power supply on the EP2500 looks a little thin to put out what they claim. Regardless, bridged into 4 ohms, or even one channel into 4 ohms should be fine, even with some EQ.

[augerpro]

Good thing I bought my 12" TC2K when I did. TC just raised the price to $699 + shipping 8O The only bummer is I had planned on building stereo subs at some point

[Adam321]

Good thing I bought my 12" TC2K when I did. TC just raised the price to $699 + shipping 8O The only bummer is I had planned on building stereo subs at some point

Holy Cow!!! 8O Have they lost their minds? How do you go from $249.00 to $699.00? Thats almost 200% increase. How can they complete at those prices?

[Nathan P]

This is all over the car audio forums, TC sent out a bulletin or something saying that they were under charging for their subs based on the sub prices from JL, JBL, and other "high end" manufacturers. It's ludicrous. TC can't afford to charge as much because they aren't as well known to your average consumer! What normal average joe is going to buy a TC when he can get a sub that says JL or JBL or whatever for the same price?

[JonMarsh]

They were talking about some price increases up to 100% due to materials pricing, but that's pretty wild... a bit more than 100%! Probably some bean counter figured out they were seriously losing money at the current prices.

I was thinking about one of the TC-2000 15", but I think I'll just pass and build something with my Stryke HE-15.

[Nathan P]

The problem now is that it leaves a bad taste in most consumers mouths, and the subs aren't that much better (if at all) than the dayton type offerings according to alot of people I've talked to, and they're going to lose a ton of business by pricing themselves out of the market.

[PoorboyMike]

Anyone have some advice on the above question?

The TC2K has very little vas, that is the reason you see little to no advantage to going with a larger box. The greater the vas, the larger the box size needs to be for a given qts.

For an amp, the Nady XA-900 would be a good match for that sub. Musiciansfriend has it on sale once in a while for $149. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...Amp?sku=482052 I have a XA-1100 and haven't had a single problem with it in 2 years of use. It's even left my house a couple times for live shows. For a free fan mod, pull the chassis off and wire both fans in series and you'll never hear them.

[PoorboyMike]

The problem now is that it leaves a bad taste in most consumers mouths, and the subs aren't that much better (if at all) than the dayton type offerings according to alot of people I've talked to, and they're going to lose a ton of business by pricing themselves out of the market.

DIY is a very small portion of TC's income. In fact, their products weren't even available to DIYers until a couple years ago.

[Nathan P]

hmmm, who do they sell to? No one in my area sells them and no one I know had even heard of them I don't think.

[PoorboyMike]

hmmm, who do they sell to? No one in my area sells them and no one I know had even heard of them I don't think.

They are an oem supplier. For instance, SVS used to get all of their drivers from TCsounds.

Sound Splinters are also made by TC.

[ThomasW]

hmmm, who do they sell to? No one in my area sells them and no one I know had even heard of them I don't think.

Good thing I bought my 12" TC2K when I did. TC just raised the price to $699 + shipping 8O The only bummer is I had planned on building stereo subs at some point

My guess is they're attempting to back out of direct sales by bumping up the pricing.

This makes sense, were I SoundSplinter or any of the companies having TC make my OEM drivers, I'd be unhappy trying to compete directly with them.

Also I think TC-Sounds realized what a PIA direct sales are. So the new much higher pricing is designed to eliminate those wanting low cost drivers (which is the bulk of the DIY market).

As an example Adire Audio's DIY direct sales only accounted for 5% of their total business....

[Brian Bunge]

I'm not sure if they still do or not, but a little company called Eclipse used to source drivers from TC Sounds.

[Adam321]

I'm not sure if they still do or not, but a little company called Eclipse used to source drivers from TC Sounds.

Eclipse stopped using TCsounds awhile ago.

[Nathan P]

Ah, I didn't realize that TC OEMed for other companies.

[Hdale85]

Well TC Sounds still owes me a driver I need to call them and complain. I ordered one and it got lost in shipping and they never sent out another one. Getting a little upset with them.

[augerpro]

Does anyone know the volume displacement of the 12" TC2K? Also I seen it mentioned that port airspeed should be kept under .16 mach (or 55 m/s), does this sound correct? How about group delay?