It's time for a Statement announcing my latest project..

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks for the reply, Jim.

I'm very impressed with the Jantzen caps, especially the Z series, which evidently perform comparably to some truly expensive caps from other companies.

As an audiophile who understands that every link in the audio chain matters, the goal is clarity and what I like to call "thereness," so I'm not going to skimp on the components in the signal path. I'm considering some expensive caps on the Neoteks and Tang Bands, because I want to give the speakers every advantage in digging out all the details and displaying them in a sweet spacious field. I have a videogame CD I love to play on the stereo, Panzer Dragoon for the Sega Saturn, and it has a track that has an odd but intriguing synthesizer line that runs through it. Unfortunately, the way the track is mixed, that line is muddled by most speakers. Only high end speakers like the B&W 802s - very sensuous but ungodly expensive - or Sonus Fabre speakers have been able to sort the track out properly. And everything was as clear as a bell and imaged like I was there at the recording.

That's what I want out of the Statements, and I have faith in you that you selected drivers which can work that kind of magic, so that an orchestra can sound like a group of violins and violas, and not just a vague but pleasing string section.

As you pointed out, switching something even like a digital cable improved the sound of your Statements, which is the one thing which usually produces the smallest changes, even with many high end cables. Now some are just insanely detailed, and I'm definitely looking to get those VH cables myself to use for one link or another, even for my Bravia LCD TV. I can't see how high end caps wouldn't make any difference, especially when they're in the signal path.

The Jentzens are definitely my first choice, but adding in four of the Mundorf Silver/Oils or Clarity Cap MRs wouldn't bump the budget up all that much, and I'm determined to have that thereness I crave. It's not that high a price, all things considered.

Hi Synthguy,

I think you'll be quite happy with the Statements. However check out CBS's post HERE. I'd suggest you get in touch with Chris. He has a very high end system and can share his thoughts with you.

Jim

[synthguy]

Hi again, Jim.

Currently, as a stereo I'm running a Rotel RC-970BC preamp into a RB-980BX power amp, connected with some nice Audioquest cable. My CD player is a Proceed PDP-11 transport and DAC, and that crazy set I believe sold for $4000 retail almost a decade ago! Talk about detailed. The B&W 705 knock off AER Pisces III speakers mated with a no-name sub I'm using right now sound amazingly spacious and detailed, though there's an issue with grain on some badly done techno tracks I've heard on them.

I'm mostly listening to music and videogames on this system, but it's so good on home theater duty that I'm not interested in any multichannel stuff, at least not now. I get a close to high end sound on it, but I've been lusting after the big B&W 800s ever since I had the misfortune to hear them. Yes, I'm a chronic gear junky with a bad case of audiophilia, so I've been after the ultimate in "thereness" for years. The Statements definitely sound like the real deal to keep me happy till I must depart this murky realm.

Do the sealed Statements with sub offer that much more in bass wow factor? Or are the ported Statements plenty tight and deep enough? I do like pipe organ, and have some VERY soft tracks that on my system give me the chills, and I've been using subs with bookshelves for a long time now, so that wouldn't be a huge issue. But it sounds like the ported Statements cover those low frequencies well enough.

[synthguy]

I have a couple of questions.

How many feet of wire would you recommend buying for hooking up all the internal components?

And are there any comparable Jentzen copper foil inductors which would properly replace the air coil inductors? Or Erse Perfect Layer? They seem to have tighter tolerance.

[Jim Holtz]

I have a couple of questions.

How many feet of wire would you recommend buying for hooking up all the internal components?

And are there any comparable Jentzen copper foil inductors which would properly replace the air coil inductors? Or Erse Perfect Layer? They seem to have tighter tolerance.

Well, I like Bluejeans 12 gauge speaker cable for internal wiring. I'd order about 30 feet which should be enough to get you by.

It doesn't make any difference what brand of inductor you use but the DCR is important. You'll find foil inductors to have extremely low DCR which will mess with the crossover and foil is a real bear to work with. Spend your money on premium caps if you want to tweak the crossover. Inductor values and DCR are important to keep as speced.

HTH

Jim

[synthguy]

Thanks for the quick response Jim. I forgot one more. If I feel the need to tame the ribbon tweeter down, say one or two db, what values would I change for that? I listen to a good amount of rock, and on occasion, at rather hefty volume. The consensus is that the Statements speaker elements are all voiced just right for everything, but I've been listening to some TDL Monitor Two speakers for about 13 years, and the tweeters are wonderful with everything but rock, where with some music, they can be rather harsh. The same with my friend's Sonus Fabre speakers. Wonderful and spacious with everything, but throw some rock music on them, and they tend to be shrieky.

I'm just being a little paranoid here. I know you didn't just listen to chamber music and three piece jazz, so this is just in case.

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks for the quick response Jim. I forgot one more. If I feel the need to tame the ribbon tweeter down, say one or two db, what values would I change for that? I listen to a good amount of rock, and on occasion, at rather hefty volume. The consensus is that the Statements speaker elements are all voiced just right for everything, but I've been listening to some TDL Monitor Two speakers for about 13 years, and the tweeters are wonderful with everything but rock, where with some music, they can be rather harsh. The same with my friend's Sonus Fabre speakers. Wonderful and spacious with everything, but throw some rock music on them, and they tend to be shrieky.

I'm just being a little paranoid here. I know you didn't just listen to chamber music and three piece jazz, so this is just in case.

That's a Curt question. Send him an email to get his attention and he can guide the way.

Jim

[rj45]

statements fidelity

Thanks for the quick response Jim. I forgot one more. If I feel the need to tame the ribbon tweeter down, say one or two db, what values would I change for that? I listen to a good amount of rock, and on occasion, at rather hefty volume. The consensus is that the Statements speaker elements are all voiced just right for everything, but I've been listening to some TDL Monitor Two speakers for about 13 years, and the tweeters are wonderful with everything but rock, where with some music, they can be rather harsh. The same with my friend's Sonus Fabre speakers. Wonderful and spacious with everything, but throw some rock music on them, and they tend to be shrieky.

I'm just being a little paranoid here. I know you didn't just listen to chamber music and three piece jazz, so this is just in case.

Dude,

I'm running the mini-statements as mains with an Onkyo HTR with 130 WPC into 4 ohms. Have not noticed ANY harshness on any music so far.
They will get bit harsh if I crank them up - but I think that my amp is probably
clipping a bit.

That said, I don't think the Fountek ribbon tweeters have sounded harsh on any music I've thrown at them. If anything, sometimes I feel that I'd like a bit more output from the tweeters. Very accurate, but not "in your face".

Strongly suggest that you build the terminal plate so they can be biamped.
I think that your RB-980BX will do great to drive the mids and tweeters, and
you should have at least 200 WPC on a separate amp to drive the woofers.

I dig your comment about chamber music and jazz. Great speakers should be able to crank out some serious volume without compression.

HTH,
-Don

[synthguy]

I'll take that as a vote of confidence. I wouldn't mess with with the crossovers unless the ribbons seem overly brite.

I'm going to have Matt build it for bi-amp/bi-wiring, so that aspect is covered. Today or tomorrow, I'll be going with him to buy some wood, and I'm making sure everything is priced and in stock today. Now it's just a matter of settling on a finish. Hopefully in a month I can post some pics and my own reviews to add to the stack.

Thanks again, Jim and Curt, for giving us audiophiles a design which can compare well with the super expensive guys.

[Hdale85]

Yeah ribbons aren't normally known as being harsh. Quite the opposite actually being very smooth.

[synthguy]

Oh, one more question, and then I should be done. The Erse Super Q inductor is so big, they recommend you don't secure it to the PC board. Do you guys do that anyway, or screw it into the cabinet wall?

Or two. For you guys who do wood veneer, who do you recommend?

[ahaik]

Thanks for the quick response Jim. I forgot one more. If I feel the need to tame the ribbon tweeter down, say one or two db, what values would I change for that? I listen to a good amount of rock, and on occasion, at rather hefty volume. The consensus is that the Statements speaker elements are all voiced just right for everything, but I've been listening to some TDL Monitor Two speakers for about 13 years, and the tweeters are wonderful with everything but rock, where with some music, they can be rather harsh. The same with my friend's Sonus Fabre speakers. Wonderful and spacious with everything, but throw some rock music on them, and they tend to be shrieky.

I'm just being a little paranoid here. I know you didn't just listen to chamber music and three piece jazz, so this is just in case.

I reading this and I'm about to come out of my skin :E , I have had the statements for a while now and IMO changing ANYTHING in the crossovers will be a very foolish thing, this crossover was designed by a true master.
I have been changing equipment ever since I built the Statements, and the only reason is that they are sooo detailed and revealing and every time I try a better piece of electronics the difference is huge.
I settled now on a moded Shanling CDP connected directly to a PASS LABS F5 clone (CDP has volume control). Sounds out of this world.
I'm a new member of a nice Audiophile club, in one meeting at a members house we listened to Thiel 2.4's with very expensive electonics (LP player tube amps, even had ceramic spacers for the speaker cables/hoses :rofl: )
Compared to the sound I'm used to now that system sounded like an FM radio.

Just one mans opinion :W

Asi.

[Curt C]

[QUOTE=synthguy]Oh, one more question, and then I should be done. The Erse Super Q inductor is so big, they recommend you don't secure it to the PC board. Do you guys do that anyway, or screw it into the cabinet wall?
QUOTE]

I generally use 1/4" pegboard for my crossovers, and lash the bulky components down with cable ties. Alternatively / in addition, you can keep them from vibrating by applying RTV or 'Goop' to the components before you affix them to the board. Goop is great stuff, but any subsequent component removal will be approached with great difficulty.

C

[synthguy]

Thanks for the head's up Curt, you and Jim are... the men? :P

And Asi, I'll trust the board. I've been reading up on these guys ever since I began my search for high end DIY speakers. At first, the Zaph/Madisound Revelator Towers sounded like the gold mine, but just a few days after that, I came across Curt's site and was engrossed in the Statements. I wanted to read more reviews, and Matt - evilskillit - found Jim and Curt hanging out here, and man, did I get an eyeful of reviews. That was enough to get me to change my wishlist speaker.

Don't worry, I won't mess with near perfection.

Now, to get that wood bought, and the choice of finish nailed down...

[synthguy]

The reason the drivers aren't offset is because I don't toe in my speakers. I prefer to have them point straight forward and listen off axis. Off axis response is smoother with the drivers in a line. With the tweeter offset, on axis is smoother.

Well, now I have another question before bed. My livingroom is all of 10' deep. With the couch, I think my current speakers are about 7-8' from my head. Because I've never had a large listening area, and won't unless I win the lottery or something, I toe my speakers in, aiming to a point about 3' behind me or so. Toed in slightly in a more cozy listening area, what does that do to the sound? And with such an arrangement, should the tweeters be located closer to the inner wall of the cabinet?

Oh, and I got the MDF today. Woo! Love that vet discount at Home Depot. Needless to say, I think Matt would be keen to know this too.

[mlammert]

Synthguy,

I am currently close to the end of my Statements build...

You can check out my personal build thread here:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30977&page=1&pp=35

Please feel free to take a look and maybe some of my process/discovery can be of help...

Good luck!!!

Mark

[rj45]

toe in versus straight on

Well, now I have another question before bed. My livingroom is all of 10' deep. With the couch, I think my current speakers are about 7-8' from my head. Because I've never had a large listening area, and won't unless I win the lottery or something, I toe my speakers in, aiming to a point about 3' behind me or so. Toed in slightly in a more cozy listening area, what does that do to the sound? And with such an arrangement, should the tweeters be located closer to the inner wall of the cabinet?

Oh, and I got the MDF today. Woo! Love that vet discount at Home Depot. Needless to say, I think Matt would be keen to know this too.

I've always toed-in my speakers also.
I played around with my min-statements recently, and found that I greatly
preferred the sound with them NOT toed-in.
I theorized that they sounded better this way due to how the midrange sound is pointed out through the back, and bounces off the back wall
before I hear it.

I would not change anything about the speakers. Just play around with
placement a bit once you get them in the room.

HTH,
-Don

[synthguy]

Thanks all. We've just cut the MDF and are waiting on an opportune day to start construction. I have a few odds and ends questions, and I'm sure evil will too, since he's going to be handling the build.

What kind of extras did you guys use internally? Such as terminal strips. How did you wire up your dual drivers to the crossovers? Solder, clips? Which speaker terminals did you use?

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks all. We've just cut the MDF and are waiting on an opportune day to start construction. I have a few odds and ends questions, and I'm sure evil will too, since he's going to be handling the build.

What kind of extras did you guys use internally? Such as terminal strips. How did you wire up your dual drivers to the crossovers? Solder, clips? Which speaker terminals did you use?

Hi Synthguy,

There are lots of options. I'd suggest a cruise through the various build threads to see what everyone else is using. Also, please start a separate build thread for your Statement project. This thread has grown way too large and the separate threads make it easier for folks like yourself to find things when searching.

OK, I use solderless terminals on the drivers. Madisound has some really nice ones.

I use terminal strips from Radioshack but I think PE also has some that are less expensive.

I like and use Bluejeans Cable speaker cable both inside and out in my speakers. 12 gauge inside and 10 gauge outside. It's excellent cable that sounds good. Plus, it's reasonable.

Both Mad and PE have a variety of binding posts to choose from. I'd suggest you not pick the cheapy plastic ones but other than that, take your choice.

Good luck with the build!

Jim

[DBLD]

Hi all,
I stumbled across the statements thread in November at some point and decided I needed to build them!

I finally got around to getting all the drivers and bracing into the cab and fired them up. They sounded absolutely amazing, with shockingly powerful deep bass.

For some reason however, once I moved the speakers into a larger room, they seem to have lost their ability to produce deep bass. I've checked the connections and crossovers and they all seem ok, but I've lost all the bass. The woofers move but no more powerful bass. They sound like a pair of small speakers!

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Derrick

[Jim Holtz]

Hi all,
I stumbled across the statements thread in November at some point and decided I needed to build them!

I finally got around to getting all the drivers and bracing into the cab and fired them up. They sounded absolutely amazing, with shockingly powerful deep bass.

For some reason however, once I moved the speakers into a larger room, they seem to have lost their ability to produce deep bass. I've checked the connections and crossovers and they all seem ok, but I've lost all the bass. The woofers move but no more powerful bass. They sound like a pair of small speakers!

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Derrick

Hi Derrick,

I'm glad you like the Statements. I do too. :T

Now, to the missing bass. I'm guessing we have an issue with the port.

Did you down port them?

If you down ported, did you cut the tunnel out the back of the base like is shown in the Mini's cabinet drawing?

What is the floor covering in the room the Statements are now setting?

Let's start there.

Jim

[DBLD]

Hi Derrick,

I'm glad you like the Statements. I do too. :T

Now, to the missing bass. I'm guessing we have an issue with the port.

Did you down port them?

If you down ported, did you cut the tunnel out the back of the base like is shown in the Mini's cabinet drawing?

What is the floor covering in the room the Statements are now setting?

Let's start there.

Jim

Jim,

I appreciate the quick response. They are down ported. I used the parts express port (part #s from Curt's website), with the tube cut to 4" resulting in a total port height of 6 3/4". I have also taken out the port to see if it made a difference (nothing audible to me in their current position).

The base consists of the 4 pieces of 3/4" mdf as per the cabinet drawings. The bottom 3 layers have a 7.5" hole, rounded over to a 9" diameter. (Had router problems getting it to 9" all the way). The base does not have a cutout in the back as per the minis, but the entire speaker is sitting on hockey pucks (I am from Canada after all...) to get the required 2" height. I can easily make a cutout in the back since the bottom 3 pieces are not yet glued to the top piece of the base.

The Statements are in the basement, sitting on some thin indoor outdoor type carpet and thin underpad. I have gone up to the main floor while the speakers were playing to see if that floor was at least vibrating and it is very minimal.

- Derrick

[---k---]

Could the differences just be the room size? Bass fills small rooms easily, while it takes a lot more bass to fill a large open room. You also get more room gain in small rooms.

I just wonder this because you said that they had thunderous bass in the small room and didn't change anything when you moved them to the big room.

[DBLD]

Could the differences just be the room size? Bass fills small rooms easily, while it takes a lot more bass to fill a large open room. You also get more room gain in small rooms.

I just wonder this because you said that they had thunderous bass in the small room and didn't change anything when you moved them to the big room.

It could very well be room size. Once I can convince someone to help me move the speakers back to their original location I'll be able to check that.

Its not so much a matter of non-room filling bass, but a matter of the speakers sounding almost tinny. I compared them side by side with a friends Axiom M60s (twin 6.5" woofers and about half the height) and his were noticeably bassier. Couldn't come close for the mids or highs but much more impactful bass.

[Jim Holtz]

It could very well be room size. Once I can convince someone to help me move the speakers back to their original location I'll be able to check that.

Its not so much a matter of non-room filling bass, but a matter of the speakers sounding almost tinny. I compared them side by side with a friends Axiom M60s (twin 6.5" woofers and about half the height) and his were noticeably bassier. Couldn't come close for the mids or highs but much more impactful bass.

Hi Derrick,

Hmmmm.... The statements will blow the Axioms away so something is defiantly not right. I would suggest you cut a 5" wide section out of the bottom 3 layers of the base for a rear port exit. It works better and was a running change I made in the design but wasn't documented in the Statements build.

I assume you've checked the basics and determined all of the RS225's are playing and the crossover is connected with the correct polarity on all of the drivers. If not, please do.

I'm going to give Curt a heads up to see if he can weigh in with ideas. The statements aren't bass shy so something isn't right. However, I'd only call them thunderous on very bass heavy passages with exaggerated bass.

Jim

[JAS]

In another Statement build the builder was going to test dying the foam used to line the mid tunnels and never saw any results. So today I gave it a test run with black Rit with positive results.

[DBLD]

Hi Derrick,

Hmmmm.... The statements will blow the Axioms away so something is defiantly not right. I would suggest you cut a 5" wide section out of the bottom 3 layers of the base for a rear port exit. It works better and was a running change I made in the design but wasn't documented in the Statements build.

I assume you've checked the basics and determined all of the RS225's are playing and the crossover is connected with the correct polarity on all of the drivers. If not, please do.

I'm going to give Curt a heads up to see if he can weigh in with ideas. The statements aren't bass shy so something isn't right. However, I'd only call them thunderous on very bass heavy passages with exaggerated bass.

Jim

Jim,

I've cut the 5" section out of the back. Didn't seem to make much difference.

Last night before posting I checked to make sure all the RS225s were playing (they are) and made sure that the polarity was correct. The + amp is connected to the inductor, which is in turn connected to a) the + terminals on the 2 woofers and b) the 2 caps (in parallel). The - woofer terminals and the - amp are connected to the other side of the caps. Is this correct?

I had assumed the thunderous bass was because of the room placement in the initial setup and that I would lose some in a larger room. Based on all the posts I am expecting deep powerful bass, not overpowering.

Thanks,
Derrick

[mlammert]

In another Statement build the builder was going to test dying the foam used to line the mid tunnels and never saw any results. So today I gave it a test run with black Rit with positive results.

Hey JAS,

I think you might be referring to my build thread:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=431422&postcount=365

I was waiting to test dye the foam when I started painting/staining the speakers (which will be this week)... :B

That is excellent that you got such good results... I will definitely make that part of the finishing process...

Thanks for doing the test!!!

Mark

[Curt C]

Jim,

I've cut the 5" section out of the back. Didn't seem to make much difference.

Last night before posting I checked to make sure all the RS225s were playing (they are) and made sure that the polarity was correct. The + amp is connected to the inductor, which is in turn connected to a) the + terminals on the 2 woofers and b) the 2 caps (in parallel). The - woofer terminals and the - amp are connected to the other side of the caps. Is this correct?

I had assumed the thunderous bass was because of the room placement in the initial setup and that I would lose some in a larger room. Based on all the posts I am expecting deep powerful bass, not overpowering.

Thanks,
Derrick

What is the rough dimensions of your basement, vs. the upstairs room? Where are the speakers postioned with respect to the front and side walls? I actually voiced the Statements in a basement room roughly 16' x 30', and I can guarantee they made bass there...

Is anything else with your system changed? Different amp, source, etc?

C

[DBLD]

What is the rough dimensions of your basement, vs. the upstairs room? Where are the speakers postioned with respect to the front and side walls? I actually voiced the Statements in a basement room roughly 16' x 30', and I can guarantee they made bass there...

Is anything else with your system changed? Different amp, source, etc?

C

The room where they are currently set up is an L-shaped room. The long side of the L is about 35 feet, the short side is about 20. Those lengths are from the corner where the outside walls meet. Both sections of the L are about 16 feet wide. The speakers are placed on the outside wall of the short side of the L, facing into the long part of the L. The back of the speakers are about 2.5 feet from the wall, and the side of one of the speakers is about 3 feet from the wall. The side of the other speaker opens up into the short side of the L.

Hopefully that made sense.

The previous room was also a basement room, about 10x18 feet in size.

The only change from when listening originally was from a cheap set of 18 gauge speaker wire to 12 gauge. I tried 2 different brands of 12 gauge wire. I have listened to the Statements when powered by an old pioneer amp, a new pioneer elite amp, and an Emotiva xpa-5 using either pioneer amp as a pre-amp.

- Derrick

[Jim Holtz]

The room where they are currently set up is an L-shaped room. The long side of the L is about 35 feet, the short side is about 20. Those lengths are from the corner where the outside walls meet. Both sections of the L are about 16 feet wide. The speakers are placed on the outside wall of the short side of the L, facing into the long part of the L. The back of the speakers are about 2.5 feet from the wall, and the side of one of the speakers is about 3 feet from the wall. The side of the other speaker opens up into the short side of the L.

Hopefully that made sense.

The previous room was also a basement room, about 10x18 feet in size.

The only change from when listening originally was from a cheap set of 18 gauge speaker wire to 12 gauge. I tried 2 different brands of 12 gauge wire. I have listened to the Statements when powered by an old pioneer amp, a new pioneer elite amp, and an Emotiva xpa-5 using either pioneer amp as a pre-amp.

- Derrick

Hi Derrick,

I'm curious to hear what Curt's thoughts are on your situation. Have you checked to make sure the inner port flares are still on the port tubes? Yes, that's grasping at straws but I see nothing else to create a difference in bass.

I would have wrote the differences off to room modes but the comparison with the axiom speakers has me scratching my head.

Jim

[Jed]

JThe + amp is connected to the inductor, which is in turn connected to a) the + terminals on the 2 woofers and b) the 2 caps (in parallel). The - woofer terminals and the - amp are connected to the other side of the caps. Is this correct?

I'm assuming that you have the woofers hooked up to the opposite end of the inductor, where the cap connects?

[ahaik]

The room where they are currently set up is an L-shaped room. The long side of the L is about 35 feet, the short side is about 20. Those lengths are from the corner where the outside walls meet. Both sections of the L are about 16 feet wide. The speakers are placed on the outside wall of the short side of the L, facing into the long part of the L. The back of the speakers are about 2.5 feet from the wall, and the side of one of the speakers is about 3 feet from the wall. The side of the other speaker opens up into the short side of the L.

Hopefully that made sense.

The previous room was also a basement room, about 10x18 feet in size.

The only change from when listening originally was from a cheap set of 18 gauge speaker wire to 12 gauge. I tried 2 different brands of 12 gauge wire. I have listened to the Statements when powered by an old pioneer amp, a new pioneer elite amp, and an Emotiva xpa-5 using either pioneer amp as a pre-amp.

- Derrick

I actually have an opposite situation, I had them in an L shaped basement about the same size of yours. I moved into a new house a little while ago and the Statements are in a much smaller room now, I get more deeper Bass, BUT, I feel this is unbalanced and a little boomy (probably too much room gain). I actually liked them better in the larger room with less bass. I suggest you make sure everything is hooked up correctly and if it is, live with it for a while and who knows maybe you would like it better after you get used to it.
Luckily for me that room will be extended soon.

HTH,
Asi.

[DBLD]

I'm assuming that you have the woofers hooked up to the opposite end of the inductor, where the cap connects?

Yup. Thats where the +s connect. The negatives are on the other side of the caps.

[DBLD]

Hi Derrick,

I'm curious to hear what Curt's thoughts are on your situation. Have you checked to make sure the inner port flares are still on the port tubes? Yes, that's grasping at straws but I see nothing else to create a difference in bass.

I would have wrote the differences off to room modes but the comparison with the axiom speakers has me scratching my head.

Jim

I also thought it was just the room accoustics before the comparison with the Axioms. Talk about dissapointing. When I listen to the speakers now I really feel like they need a sub. I was listening to a demo cd with a drum solo on it, and can really hear the drums but they have no impact.

Could it possibly be a problem with the mids? If I wired the mids incorrectly there would be too much in the midrange which would make the bass seem underpowered?

I have an SPL meter and a test cd, would comparing the actual output to the frequency response graph be useful? If so, whats the best place to sit/stand to do it? Near the speaker? At the listening position?

[Jim Holtz]

I also thought it was just the room accoustics before the comparison with the Axioms. Talk about dissapointing. When I listen to the speakers now I really feel like they need a sub. I was listening to a demo cd with a drum solo on it, and can really hear the drums but they have no impact.

Could it possibly be a problem with the mids? If I wired the mids incorrectly there would be too much in the midrange which would make the bass seem underpowered?

I have an SPL meter and a test cd, would comparing the actual output to the frequency response graph be useful? If so, whats the best place to sit/stand to do it? Near the speaker? At the listening position?

Derrick,

The only thing I can think of is the crossover has an error that's upseting the balance between the mids and bass drivers.

I have no idea what your expectations are but I can say that the (2) 6.5" drivers Axioms use will not keep up with (2) RS225's. The Axioms may be boomy and have exaggerated bass. I don't know since I haven't heard them and can't really comment with authority. It's only speculation since this type of commercial speaker typically does. I will say, the Statements are extremely accurate through out their frequency range so there could be a perceived difference depending on the recording. However, I always recommend a sub for home theater or really bass heavy music like techno for that "dance club" sound effect. The Statements move a lot of air but not that much air.

Radio Shack SPL meters are pretty inaccurate but it might give you an idea of what's going on. I'll let Curt give you some ideas on how and where to measure with it.

Have you moved your Statements back to the room that they had big bass in? I'm curious if the bass returns in that room.

Jim

[Curt C]

Your present room is almost exactly the same size as the room they were voiced in, and the speaker positions are nearly identical as well. Sooooo……

I presume your listening position is near the center of the room now, where before, due to the room size, your listening position was probably closer to the rear wall.

Try standing along one of the side walls, or at the rear of the room. If the bass comes up, your listening position is at one of the room nulls for the frequencies you are missing. The solution here would be to move your listening position. My listening position is about 10 ft. from the front baffles, and there is significantly more bass traveling along the walls, but still sufficient bass at the listening position, as Jim can attest.

No luck there? Try reversing one of the speaker leads. Standing between the speakers, you will have even less bass, -or much more. If more, you will know what to do… If the mids are now out of phase, you will hear what should be center stage coming from the left wall, or the right wall, so this will be also a test of mid relative polarity as well.

C

[DBLD]

I am travelling this week but will try both of your suggestions this weekend.

Thanks for all your help.

[dyak]

Oops!!

Where are you going to put the bevels? In the corners adjacent to the woofers should be no problem. Anywhere near the mids and ribbon, as in the example below, be prepared to do some crossover tweaking.

C
http://www.thesoundstation.com/manuf...ges/kas2.4.jpg

I knew I shoulda read the entire 31-pages in better detail....'cause I did what Curt suggested not to do.... :cry: I cut my sides and double-thick front baffle like the one in the image.

So, should I go get some more wood this weekend and stick to the plans this time or should I venture onwards? I don't want to sacrifice sound quality so I'm thinking I should probably suck it up and get my butt back out to that big orange store. Luckily the mid-tunnels, tops, bottoms, braces, that I've already cut will be A-OK.

I don't know much about crossover tweaking, so what would be the likely impact on sound if I continued with my bastardized "oops". ops:

Or is the "tweaking" a simple part(s) change-out?

Boy, sometimes I can be really dense. Any thoughts or suggestions?

My work shop is a balmy 45°F; so does anyone know if it is this warm enough for Elmer's wood glue to cure properly?

Thank you to all who might help me make the right decisions!! ;x(

Doug

[mlammert]

Hey Doug,

If you haven't already, you should really start your own build thread and post some pictures (a) because pictures are cool and (b) so we can see what you are talking about...

I believe I originally asked Curt the question in which you quoted his response...

I don't want to speak for Curt but I think that he mean more or less a complete crossover re-work when he says "tweak"... The excellent crossover that he designed is made specifically for the 11 1/2" width and scalloped front baffle of the Statements...

I don't know a lot about speaker building and crossover design but one thing that has been repeated through the forum is that you must keep the baffle width the same and the spacing of the drivers the same for the crossover to work correctly...

In short; buy new wood... I had to a couple times... :P

You can read about my significantly modified Statements here:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?p=415052

Good luck!!!

Mark

[dyak]

Mark,

Thank you. That was the impression I had gotten also. Alrighty...I'll be getting new wood tonight.

Wow, I'd read your thread once or twice, but you've done a lot since I saw it last. Very nicely done!! ;x(

Thanks again,

Doug

[Curt C]

I don't want to speak for Curt but I think that he mean more or less a complete crossover re-work when he says "tweak"... The excellent crossover that he designed is made specifically for the 11 1/2" width and scalloped front baffle of the Statements...

As I use it' 'Tweak' is an all encompassing term that could mean anything from changing a resistor value, to changing everything. It's a bit of a cop-out for me, as I have no way to accurately ascertain the changes in diffraction that would be caused by the beveled scallops. Below is my best guess as to the effect on the mid response, and is not completely accurate, as it assumes the whole baffle is narrowed, and not beveled. However it should be suggestive of the changes due to diffraction.



-Only a dB of difference, but squarely in the passband of the mids. Note how the 'bump' in response shifts upward in frequency with the narrowed baffle. Unfortunately, a dB change in this frequency range will be quite audible. Whether this audible change will adversely affect the resultant voicing is the quandary. The 'tweak' here might be to slightly increase the value of the HP cap in the mid network. -It might work out well, -and it might not...

Anyway, presuming you would have some way to temporarily affix the scalloped baffle to the enclosure, it might be worth a shot, before redoing the whole front baffle...

C

[tomdro]

Hello Everyone,

I have decided to build the Statements. Mine will be rear ported, with no stand. The cabinet will be 4 inches longer, with 1 inch spikes to make the full 60 inch height. I assume the port tube length will have to be changed to tune the increased volume of the box. Does anyone know how it should be modified?

Tom

[Jim Holtz]

Hello Everyone,

I have decided to build the Statements. Mine will be rear ported, with no stand. The cabinet will be 4 inches longer, with 1 inch spikes to make the full 60 inch height. I assume the port tube length will have to be changed to tune the increased volume of the box. Does anyone know how it should be modified?

Tom

Hi Tom,

Welcome aboard! I hope you like the Statements as much as we do.

I can't answer your port question. That's one for Curt to wave his magic wand over. I did recalculate the volume and it looks like it increases the volume the woofers see by 9.5 liters.

There is an easy way out. Simply put a shelf at 4" above the base so the volume stays the same. That bottom 4" could be a great place for the crossover.

Curt usually pops in every day or two. Once you start the build, please create a new build thread in the Mission Possible area. We love to follow your progress and there are lots of previous builders that enjoy helping out if you have a question or two.

Jim

[Curt C]

Hello Everyone,

I have decided to build the Statements. Mine will be rear ported, with no stand. The cabinet will be 4 inches longer, with 1 inch spikes to make the full 60 inch height. I assume the port tube length will have to be changed to tune the increased volume of the box. Does anyone know how it should be modified?

Tom

Jim, I concur with your calculations. :T

Tom, reduce the existing port tube length by 1/2". F3 will be about 1 Hz lower.

C

[dyak]

As I use it' 'Tweak' is an all encompassing term that could mean anything from changing a resistor value, to changing everything. It's a bit of a cop-out for me, as I have no way to accurately ascertain the changes in diffraction that would be caused by the beveled scallops. Below is my best guess as to the effect on the mid response, and is not completely accurate, as it assumes the whole baffle is narrowed, and not beveled. However it should be suggestive of the changes due to diffraction.



-Only a dB of difference, but squarely in the passband of the mids. Note how the 'bump' in response shifts upward in frequency with the narrowed baffle. Unfortunately, a dB change in this frequency range will be quite audible. Whether this audible change will adversely affect the resultant voicing is the quandary. The 'tweak' here might be to slightly increase the value of the HP cap in the mid network. -It might work out well, -and it might not...

Anyway, presuming you would have some way to temporarily affix the scalloped baffle to the enclosure, it might be worth a shot, before redoing the whole front baffle...

C

Curt,

Thank you! I did not understand that my silliness would likely affect the sound (and probably negatively at that! :jawdrop: ) OK, now I know. I should have asked earlier or read more....but regardless, I'm really glad I found your and Mark's discussion before I started assembling the cabinets.

I can't come up with an effective way to make the scallops temporary, but that's A-OK. While it would have looked novel, it was a PITA to try to cut and fit the "scallops"....so in a way I'm quite relieved.

Well I went and got the wood for new fronts and sides (I LOVE gift cards!!!) last night and am heading out now to (re)begin.

Thank you once again for teaching! ;x(

Best!

Doug