Ardent inspired sub project : element and amps arrived...

[TEK]

Found it!

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?33995-Ardent-Speaker-Camp&p=468343&viewfull=1#post468343

I think the paperback makes it a bit hard to get nice edges. For this build I do not think I will let that bother me, but I'm not to sure about that if/when I build the Ardents...

[TEK]

OK, the veneer has been applied.
I have also sanded down the backplate. Wonder if I might give it a half an attemt on piano gloss finish on the back plate. Will not be visible for most who see the sub, but it's a nice oppertunity to try it out.

[benthe8track]

Looks awesome! So you think glue is the way to go to make a base for the PVA? Another local guy used shellac and I was thinking epoxy.

[TEK]

I'm no authority on this area, just following advices giving by other here.
From my point of view, using wood-glue is very easy to apply and it is something I have in my shop anyway.
From my experience, using regular primer alone did not seem to give the wanted effect.

Using epoxy or shellac might work great, I haven't tried it. You would of course habe to be sure that the epoxy/schellac binds good with the wood - not sure if that might be an issue or not. But if you first have to do some treatment to grt the epoxy/shellac to fasten to the wood - then I dont think it seem worth it.
Like in my case, using first primer and the glue - pritty sure just a layer of glue would have been good enough.

[JonMarsh]

OK, the veneer has been applied.
I have also sanded down the backplate. Wonder if I might give it a half an attemt on piano gloss finish on the back plate. Will not be visible for most who see the sub, but it's a nice oppertunity to try it out.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]22872[/ATTACH]

Looking really sharp!

In regards to the backplate, a treatment I've found looks good is to use a black base coat, not gloss, just matte, let it dry VERY thoroughly, then follow up with satin lacquer. Has a bit of shine to it, but not too much. Try it on some scrap.

[TEK]

OK, then there is time to add some color to the Ardent inspiered sub...

I'm still going with the Flugger laqure that I used on my first sub for coloring.

One reason is to get equal finish for the both.
This is while painting the sub. As you can see there is some bubbles in there - and I was a bit concerned about how that would turn out.



This is the back plate. I have already using bengalack as a foundation for the back plate, but when I paint the sub now I will threat the back-plate at the same time. Seems like it's piano gloss ;-)


This is after a little dry time, approximate one hour. Starts to look good. All the bubbles are gone now.
I did not take a picture of the back plate, but it is now matt, not shiny any more, and quite smooth. I will need to sand over as I see there are some dust in there - but it seems to work out quite well.

[TEK]

And the backplate (why only 5 pics pr. post?)


Pretty smooth...

[JonMarsh]

Looking very nice! :T This is the part where it starts to get rather exciting because you can see the desired results from all your planning and efforts appearing before your eyes!

How soon do you think you'll have it loaded and playing?

[TEK]

Hi

Hope that someone can help me out here.
I have, as you might know, applied two layers of "flugger beislakk" to the sub.
But now, after a week or so, I get light stripes where the veneer is meeting, as shown i. The attached picture. I have not clear coded the sub, so I can take almost any action I want to.

Does anyone understand the reson for this? Should I have done something differently?
And what is the proper action to fix this?

[JonMarsh]

Without looking at it "in the flesh" it's hard to know; my first guess would be that it's pulling back a bit from the glue seams where the veneer went on...

(remember, I'm the wires and sparks guy trying to hang out with the woodworkers...) my first thought would be another coat of the black, but this might not help without taking some other measures first. Have you done any light sand after these coats ? 220 or 400 grit?

Some of the more experienced woodworkers may have more detailed or experienced suggestions to make. I've never done black with this particular technique.

[cjd]

What's the base on that color? Water? alcohol? I assume lacquer thinner but want to be sure.

I agree, it looks like it's not wanting to stick where the self-stick backing of the veneer surfaces at the edges.

That said, I don't have any particularly good ideas at the moment.Black acrylic paint might stick, but to get JUST that line you'd have to be pretty good with a brush.

Any way you can turn it into a feature? Enhance the white and make it consistent so it looks intentional? It doesn't look like it's happening on all the edges.

[TEK]

It's not water based. Used rags may start to burn and should be soked in water...
I did sand between layers.
I wonder if Jons idea about the veneer pulling back might be onto something. The edges are a bit "rough". Also, there was no indication that the lacqure did not stick after it was applied. This just showed up after a week or so. Its very dry here these days...

[5th element]

It could possibly be shrinkage of some kind. As in you wet/finish the veneer, it expands whilst wet, the stain dries, then the veneer shrinks a little over time as all the moisture/solvents find their way out, leaving behind a thin line around the edges.

[TEK]

ok, thanks.

I think I will try to add one more stroke just over the lines and then insert the element and amp and take it into the theater/music room Then I will use it for a month or so. If the lines stay away I will sand easy over it - as well as my previous sub - add another thin layer of black before I clear coat it. That way I should be quite sure that the wood has setteled before clear coating it. I dont want to have to sand away the clear coating...

[TEK]

Hmmm...
It's definitive missing a couple of Wavecor Ardent here :-)

Good to know what the next project is going to be...



Now - onto the music :-)

[JonMarsh]

That looks fine- but how about trying the subs on the outside, and the mains towards the insides? :W

[Carl V]

+1

nice.

[TEK]

That looks fine- but how about trying the subs on the outside, and the mains towards the insides? :W

I have tried that before, when having just one sub.
It gives a bit narrow stereo persoective, and the speakers tends to get in front of the screen.
I see your point, but if you observe the two "posters" on the wall, they are sound absorbers, placed there to stop the reflected sound from the wall. In my experience, the soundstage is better this way than the other way around.
So I will have it like this for a while, then I will probably test it the other way around as well...

And when it comes to extra gain from corner placement - I really do not need it - it's all there. I gave also using the room simulation in REW, and according to it, there is no significant differens in the bass output in the listening position with the current placement vs. a corner placement.

[JonMarsh]

OK, if the posters are sound absorbers to kill that early reflection and the comb filtering that would result from the high level time delayed signal, then all should be well. you don't know how many times I've seen a setup like that WITHOUT any side wall absorption. I use some RealTraps designed for that myself.

[kevinm]

Been a creeper on this thread.....looks good Tek! They turned out really well.

Are those absorbers DIY?

[TEK]

Thanks :-)

And, to answer your question...


So, it's a yes!
The "poster" is in fabric from spoonflower - and is not dense at all, so that it lets the sound trough.

[soundemon]

Excellent work on the subs and absorbers both! your whole front soundstage looks amazing.

[BobEllis]

I'm going to steal that idea. Which fabric did you choose for the absorbers? Thanks.

[TEK]

Thanks!
please do steal :-)

Fabric for the absorbers are Rockfon Industrial Black, sound dampening plates for ceiling.

http://www.rockfon.no/u/website_eu_product/9994/Industrial%20Black/

The fabric for the "posters" are from spoonflowers, see attached picture for details.
And I recommend moviepostersdb for images (just pay that dollar or so for access to 100 hires downloads, it's worth it)

[BobEllis]

I see that spoonflower has many fabric choices - http://www.spoonflower.com/spoonflower_fabrics , which did you choose? My old eyes think you used performance knit, but not sure.

Thanks for movieposterdb.com, too.

[TEK]

Yes, Performance Knit is right.
The fabric is very light, and a tad seetrough on white/bright areas.
You could paint the frame in the same color as the absorber material, if you are a bit particular about the end result.
On my "Brother Bear" absorber you can, if you go like 30cm from it in good light, see the edge between the absorber and the frame. Not possible on the darker avatar poster.
Painting the frame black would have fixed that.
(No one that have seen them have noticed this - just me ;-)

[TEK]

DIY paintbooth

Hi folks

I have been pondering around a bit with how I should handle the painting issue.

First, paint equipment:
Jon is using a Fuji Mini Mite (3 or 4). I followed this idea quite a bit, but they are not available in Norway, and with freight and customs they end up pretty expensive over here, and if not right for me (or want to upgrade) there is virtually no after-marked.
That, and the fact that I just find soooooo many things I "need" for my workshop had made me come to realise that it is not economical and environmental beneficial to just buy everything I want brand new.
So, I have found myself a used compressor with some paint equipment that I will start playing around with, and then upgrade as the need raises.

Second painting area:
The plan is to build a simple DIY, store away paint booth. For that i need one fan for air in and one for air out. Preferrable a bit more air in than out.
The challenge have been related to finding fans with enough power and preferrable (at lesst for air out) that is fireproof. These are hard to find, both new and used, and also quite expensive.
Yestetday I found a free and environmental frendly solution to this problem.

I went over to the loqual electrical waste depot and picked up 4 kitchen fans, thinking that given the fact that most people changes these when renewing their kitchen throw these away even if they are fully functional.
I was right, the fans in all 4 was in fully working order.

I selected two of them and cleaned them up.
One of the two also has a closed motor, I will use that one as the exhaust fan.


More info will come as the build of the "cheap DIY paintbooth" continues...

[TEK]

Had some progress on this. Of course not completed, but getting closer.
The "stiff part" as well as the fans are completed now. Next task is to build the "tent".

[JonMarsh]

Great progress, TEK! i'm enjoying seeing how you handle this- will have to gear up for this in Mid april (taking some days off around Easter weekend, hope to get my spraying done then...

[TEK]

Thanks Jon
Feel a bit like Reodor Felgen (https://www.google.no/search?q=reodo...Q7Ak),Probably Theodore Rimstroke for you folks, when starting this reuse projects - but well se, I think/hpe it might look and work pritty OK when I'm done...

[WilZirkle]

TEK,

Love the ventilated booth, what a great idea.

Did you ever solve the issue of the white lines on the edges of the veneer? I've cheated stuff like that with a black sharpie before.

Wil

[TEK]

For now I have used the roller on the edges and covered it up.
It seems to hold, but I need to take it back out to rub over it as there edges are a bit ruffer.
(I just took the roller into the theater room and did it there). But it seems to hold up now.

I'm in a slow prosess to test adding clear coating over the black - but I want to have the "paint booth" and rest of the paint setup ready before doing that.

BTW, my going cheap and used on this stuff failed quite a bit this weekend.
After several failed attemps on deals I just got feed up and ended on our "Biltema" - and bought
a air compressor and associated equipment. At least the paint gun was cheap... I will test it to see whats good and bad before investing in something better. Needed of course also addition stuff as air filter, water remover and so on.
And as I'm placing the compressor in the garage, I need to get the hose down to the basement.
And to do that I need to make a hole in the concreat floor - so I had to get myself a jackhammer :roll:
Yeah, this DIY stuff really saves a lot of money...
LOL!

[kevinm]

Yeah, this DIY stuff really saves a lot of money...
LOL!

Ain't that the truth :W

[TEK]

Hi

Maybe some of you can help me out a bit.
I'm in the process of building a quite large router table. The idea is a sturdy, movable table with a solid top where the router is mounted in the center.
I'm planning to let the top lay loose upon the base. Between the top and the base I was planning on using rubber gaskets so that it would lay steady and that small imperfections in the base or table would not case the top to "waggle". Part of the reason for having a loose top is easy accesd to the router and electronics (the router is a 3hp watercooled spindel - but thats a different story).
I have made the top out of a sandwich of 3mm mdf, 1cm birch plywood, 1cm mdf and finally 1 cm of plywood. O'm planning on adding a 0.7mm layer of hard laminate on the top when I get it (on order).
I made the top a couple of days ago. Afterwards it has been laying on the floor inside the house.
My problem is that the top is not straight. It bends a bit up on the middle, 1-2mm I guess, as you can see on the attached picture (the picture is with the buttom of the table facing up). I can of course not have a router top that is bended...

Can anyone help me out here and give me some info on what I should do to get this top flat?

[dar47]

To get that kind of fatness or precise level to your top your going to have to make the sud surface to the top surface out of a material you can level. Example a planed wood working bench and it will need to be fixed to the cabinet unless it's thickness is enough to remain dimensionally stable to avoid warping later on. Not sure why the router table needs to be that level your just running the edge of material against a perturbing bit.

[TEK]

To get that kind of fatness or precise level to your top your going to have to make the sud surface to the top surface out of a material you can level. Example a planed wood working bench and it will need to be fixed to the cabinet unless it's thickness is enough to remain dimensionally stable to avoid warping later on. Not sure why the router table needs to be that level your just running the edge of material against a perturbing bit.

If the table is lower where the router bit is - as mine is - and you for example route a dado on a long peace of wood, for example a speaker cabinet, you will get different depth of the cut on the ends compared to the middle. If that differens is 2 millimeters that will make a significant different when you try to assemple the cabinet.

My top layer right now is 3mm mdf, so I should be able to flatten that.
But how thick do the top need to be before it is "dimensional stable"?
(I can fasten it, but would prefer not to as I will need to access the router occasional.

[dar47]

Usually the area around the bit has a insert plat that is very flat with set screws to precisely level. This keeps the length of material close to the bit level for say dadoing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnpZLYPDTeE

[TEK]

Still, if the center of the table - even if that part is plane - is 2mm lower then the edges of the table, when you slide a wood pice of 1.5m over the table, it will be "hanging" over the router plate when you try to router the middel part.
Imagine that I was trying to router something in the pice shown on the attached picture.

On short pices this will not be an issue.

So do you know how thick the plate will need to be to dimensionable stable?

Edit: an extra question. The table plate is shaped like a "bowl" with the center of the table beeing lower than the edges by 1-2mm.
Is this just "accident" or might this be caused by the extra 3mm MDF on the upper side?

[Face]

This is exactly why I bought a quality table instead of building one.

[JonMarsh]

This is exactly why I bought a quality table instead of building one.

+1

if I had to build my tools as well as build my speakers, I'd get no where. Bad enough I'm putting together a homemade spray booth AGAIN!

[TEK]

Its all a part of the experience... This is just a little roadbump. You know, the journy is the goal. I'm just taking a few extra u-turns to ensure I get a good look at the view ;-)

I'm getting more and more sure that the twisting is caused by having the extra MDF on the top. Wonder if it will "twist back" if I add the same mdf layer to the bottom, or if it's to late?

[Face]

I purchased a 27"x43" laminated MDF router table about 3-4 years ago and it's now anything but perfectly flat. I'd recommend another material, such as Phenolic. http://www.woodpeck.com/rt2432phen.html

[TEK]

I think I will stick with the one I already have (3mm MDF, 10mm plywood, 10mm MDF, 10mm plywood, 3mm MDF (soon) , get it flat and then laminate that - on both sides - as planned. If it starts to twist after a while I'll consider making replacement of some other material.
Hopefully that last layer of MDF I'm applying will couse it to straighten up.
Otherwise - let the sanding begin...

[TEK]

After a little pause the router table seems to have straighten itself out, and this Easter I have finally finished it to working order :-)
The router engine is a 3 horse power water cooled china spindle that I have adjusted to have 4 different speed. In addition it has auto off if the water becomes to hot or the water flow stops.
It also have a safety feature so that it will not start to spin if you turn on the power without setting the speed to 0 first (in case it is stopped by turning the power off without setting the speed to 0 first).

The router height is controlled with a DIY lift and is adjusted by using the turning knob on the front side of the table.
The router bit's can be changed from the top of the table.
Now I have fixed the rails and the fence, and it's ready to use.
Still improvements that can be done, for example installing drawers, but that will have to wait to some time after the Wavecor Ardent's have been built.

I have done a little testing - and I have to say that it seems to be working VERY well

[bafflesteppe]

That looks great, TEK! Do you have a way to lock the plunge depth/height?

I had the blade height locking knob strip out on my Lowes-purchased table saw recently and was wondering why my rabbets (using a dado blade) weren't sitting level with eachother, lol. That was a fun one.