RSP 1570 Sick of HDMI Handshake issues

[thezone]

I have owned this model for about 12 months now and I like everything about it, it is an exceptional piece of equipment except for one thing. The HDMI handshake issues. I have all the latest firmware but still the unit can lose video and audio signal over HDMI. Sometimes it’s triggered by say the HTPC going in to standby, sometimes it’s because I have turned off the panel whilst recording a TV program on the PVR, and sometimes it’s completely random. When it happens, sometimes I can get the signal back again by turning either the TV or the 1570 on and off several times. But most times the only way to get the signal back is a full reboot of the source machine, eg the machine at the beginning of the HDMI chain.

I have to say that this has been a continuous problem for me with both the 1069 previously and the 1570 thru all iterations of firmware.

I am now contemplating NAD masters series as a replacement.

Has anyone else experienced this issue?

[Industrial]

I have the 1570 original Firmware, only thing that bothers me is the digital lock delay. And even that barely bothers me. I lose hdmi synch once MAYBE every few months. I guess I have what I like the call the "Anti Lemon" model

[madmac]

HDMI and Blu ray go hand in hand with 'firmware' and 'handshake' issues. It's sad and all copy write protection related garbage!!. HDMI was a good idea initially but then it got out of hand with the 1.0...1.1 and so on. It's an audio and video cable for gods sake!!!. They blew it with that one!!. Dvd HD should have won the format war sadly!.

[thezone]

Funny thing tho the PS3 never ever loses HDMI with the 1570. Strange its just the ASUS xonar audio card and the Topfield PVR.

[madmac]

The beauty of the PS3 (I have one) is that is is Wi-fi enabled and is ready for any and all firmware updates which really helps matters in regards to both HDMI and firmware related issues. I fear anybody that buys a Blu ray that is not wi-fi enabled and firmware update capable. Your asking for big trouble down the road for sure!. Your gonna' pop in a movie one day with popcorn in hand and your gonna' get an unpleasant result!.

[thezone]

I think theres more to it than that. The ps3 must have a robust video output that the 1570 can easily connect with. The ps3 has never had any hdmi handshake issues and I have had both the old ps3 and the slim ps3.

[Dmantis]

I have owned this model for about 12 months now and I like everything about it, it is an exceptional piece of equipment except for one thing. The HDMI handshake issues. I have all the latest firmware but still the unit can lose video and audio signal over HDMI. Sometimes it’s triggered by say the HTPC going in to standby, sometimes it’s because I have turned off the panel whilst recording a TV program on the PVR, and sometimes it’s completely random. When it happens, sometimes I can get the signal back again by turning either the TV or the 1570 on and off several times. But most times the only way to get the signal back is a full reboot of the source machine, eg the machine at the beginning of the HDMI chain.

I have to say that this has been a continuous problem for me with both the 1069 previously and the 1570 thru all iterations of firmware.

I am now contemplating NAD masters series as a replacement.

Has anyone else experienced this issue?

As much as I hate to say , this is why I don't own Rotel anymore. Once they get with the program , get with the times , I would love to come back. I can't handle issues with gear of this caliber. Most other japanese receivers do not have this issue. I can't comment on the NAD as I have not Installed enough of them to form a solid opinion. The ones I have I had no issues with so I guess that holds some weight. Not to mention the NAD amps/ Pre's sound incredible much like Rotel does.

[madmac]

@Thezone........The PS3 is the single most stable platform for Blu ray playback on the market today. That is why you never have handshake issues with the unit.

[thezone]

Granted this is true however, the bluray playback is inferior to the HTPC by miles otherwise I would use the ps3 solely for HD playback.

[Industrial]

Granted this is true however, the bluray playback is inferior to the HTPC by miles otherwise I would use the ps3 solely for HD playback.

Could be why I have no trouble with my Rotel, Only two sources for HDMI for me is my PS3 and HTPC. Only other sources I have is my my Benchmark DAC1 hooked up to my HTPC connected via usb/RCA which never gives me trouble and my turntable (RCA).

[mjb]

Granted this is true however, the bluray playback is inferior to the HTPC by miles otherwise I would use the ps3 solely for HD playback.

Please elaborate...
Inferior (by miles) how? Purely form a picture quality perspective? If so, in what way?

[thezone]

Please elaborate...
Inferior (by miles) how? Purely form a picture quality perspective? If so, in what way?

PS3 PQ on bluray is lacking colour depth especially black levels, picture looks a little grainy compared wih the NVDIA 9600GT in the HTPC. Also I have 12 TB of HDD on the HTPC, can rip as many BD movies as I like and playback thru Media Centre using media browser in W7. My universal remote turns on my HTPC, it boots straight into media browser, I select the movie and press play. No wait for disc to load.

[PewterTA]

Funny I have no problems like that with the PS3 and watching Blu-Rays... They look the same on my PS3 as on my HTPC with the Nvidia Geforce GTX 470... It just depends on whether I want to throw the disc in or not (normally not since a PS3 game is in the system).

[TommyV]

I have owned this model for about 12 months now and I like everything about it, it is an exceptional piece of equipment except for one thing. The HDMI handshake issues. I have all the latest firmware but still the unit can lose video and audio signal over HDMI. Sometimes it’s triggered by say the HTPC going in to standby, sometimes it’s because I have turned off the panel whilst recording a TV program on the PVR, and sometimes it’s completely random. When it happens, sometimes I can get the signal back again by turning either the TV or the 1570 on and off several times. But most times the only way to get the signal back is a full reboot of the source machine, eg the machine at the beginning of the HDMI chain.

I have to say that this has been a continuous problem for me with both the 1069 previously and the 1570 thru all iterations of firmware.

I am now contemplating NAD masters series as a replacement.

Has anyone else experienced this issue?

I have never run into ANY handshake issues with the 1069 with the many devices I have hooked to it. I did have some issues with the bass management and called Rotel to work with them on getting a software update to fix the issue. They were very helpful and even released TWO updates to address it. It took a little time and patience but in the end it was definitely worth it. You are not going to get that kind of support from most other companies.

I am not sure if you have tried working with Rotel yet but if not this is really what you should do. Posting about on this forum is not going to give you any results that would fix your issue. I can honestly say that after the software updates from Rotel, I am extremely please and content (OMG 8O) with my pre/pro.

If you are not getting results right away, ask for Mike Sheehan. I believe he is in charge of software for BW group USA. He can definitely work on getting software fixes to become a reality.

[thezone]

Cheers mate will do. I have had dealings with them in the past and they seem quite helpful. Not sure what he's going to be able do as I have all the lastest firmware loaded.

[TommyV]

Well he is here in the USA but he had the Rotel engineers in Japan create new software that corrected the issue I was having. Not sure about who handles support over where you live though but definitely should contact them about your issues.

[madmac]

One last word on the PS3 system for Blu ray playback. The PS3 is quite a complicated piece of equipment and requires a elaborate setup just like Rotel gear. If your getting what you think is inferior playback results with Blu ray, I would seriously go into the advanced Video settings and make sure it's properly set up for the type of monitor you are using. I have no grainy or black depth issues with mine. It simply produces a fantastic stable image every time!!. I can't imagine better but maybe there is. I would have to experience that with another unit on my monitor to be sure though. I wouldn't mind giving an Oppo unit a spin !!! :-)

[mjb]

PS3 PQ on bluray is lacking colour depth especially black levels, picture looks a little grainy compared wih the NVDIA 9600GT in the HTPC. Also I have 12 TB of HDD on the HTPC, can rip as many BD movies as I like and playback thru Media Centre using media browser in W7. My universal remote turns on my HTPC, it boots straight into media browser, I select the movie and press play. No wait for disc to load.

I think you're missing a setting somewhere in the PS3 to be honest, the PS3's picture quality is well known to be excellent... we can get into it in a new thread. I can't argue with the rest, although I simply hook up an external USB drive to my PS3 with pre-ripped movies.

[TommyV]

Yea guys PS3 video quality is talked to death all over the net. Let's keep this place about Rotel!

[ClosetSciFiGeek]

I completely agree with your exhaustion with HDMI handshake issues. I have since gotten a used Outlaw 990(all DVI and toslink now) to handle all the audio and I run the HDMI cables directly into my television. It makes for a few more keystrokes on the remote to switch sources, but I am completely satisfied with the performance.

[ClosetSciFiGeek]

If you don't need to use your Rotel gear for video switching recommend just directly plugging all HDMI stuff into your television and using it for it's wonderful audio. Rotel stuff has always sounded good to me.

[mjb]

There's nothing wrong with HDMI per se, its the HDCP that messes things up.

[chanlon]

I've been reading this tread and contemplating commenting for the past few days.....

I run all components, except those that use the new lossless codecs, direct to my Pioneer plasma. I hate using the unreliable HDMI connection through the Rotel 1570. The one issue that causes me to grind my teeth daily is the HDMI audio lock delay. I agree with Dmantis re: the ability for the new Japanese mass market receivers to work relatively flawless with HDMI. I tried Yamaha and Pioneer and experienced no issues over a 3 week demo.

However, I prefer the audio abilities of the Rotel and am willing to be inconvenienced for this superior audio.

However, this is not a new issue with Rotel. I have owned a RSX-976 & RSX-972 receiver (s), Rotel 1066, 1068, 1069 and 1570 processor(s). Every generation of Rotel processors struggle with locking onto digital audio initially. It usually takes them a few firmware updates to get it corrected. At least with using toslink or digital co-ax. I do know they sped up the locking onto HDMI for the 1570 recently.

BUT....do you think that knowing this is a problem, Rotel Japan or China would spend a little time and work it out before releasing the product.
Or, is it the fact that its a complex relation between the Rotel and digital devices and it takes some time to see which relationship is problematic before making adjustments?

Anyway.....I don't hear the "small company" excuse anymore. There should be some way in which Rotel can rectify this HDMI audio lock delay.

Has anybody out there emailed Mike directly and asked him if headquarters were aware of such an issue and whether or not something can be done to rectify it?

[Anovak]

Has anybody out there emailed Mike directly and asked him if headquarters were aware of such an issue and whether or not something can be done to rectify it?[/QUOTE]

Absolutey! When I first got my 1570 it had a multitude of issues with the signal lock and delays, not only with HDMI but even with Toslink connections from my dvd player when playing cd's. (See my posts about this in this forum some time ago).

Both Mike and Shane at Rotel were stellar in their responsiveness and were instrumental in changes to software that fixed....errr....kinda fixed the Toslink issue (there is still the occasional delay where the beginning of a song is cut off) but the HDMI matter is not going to get fixed.

It was explained to me that the actual hardware can function no better.....end of story. Denon, Marantz and other large manufacturers get the latest hardware that is capable of performing flawlessly long before Rotel has access to it, so Rotel produces equipment that essentially is known to be prone to such issues in hopes, I suppose, that the superior sound quality will over-shadow the quirks for most folks.

Since the 5.1 analog connections do not have audio handshake issues, I was told to use those....not really what I wanted to hear for a number of reasons, mostly due to my propensity to listen to stereo SACD's in 5 ch. stereo mode which cannot be accomplished using the 5.1 analog input.....get only front left and right.

So, I wish that there were a way to get the hardware itself updated, but that will in all liklihood mean buying the next generation of Rotel processors. Unless, of course, we can convince Rotel that they should offer to update our 1570's hardware for a reasonable fee so we can just keep what we have.

Oppo does that, don't they??? If you have an Oppo BDP83 and want the upgrade to SE, send it in and for a reasonable cost they will change out the DAC's and there you have it!

Andy

[madmac]

Hi Andy,

Personally, I'm a suspicious that the new DD-HD and DTS-HD audio is not all that much better than normal DTS And DD (disclaimer- I've never heard them!!). If the HDMI issues and handshakes, delays etc are that common, then I'm not sure it's worth it in my opinion. I find the quality of the recording itself has a bigger effect on how a recording is going to sound than the medium it's pressed on. I have some Chesky hi def stuff that sounds nice but I also have some ordinary cd's that by and large sound better than them because they put more effort into the mastering process up front in the studio. If you like George Benson, give his latest CD a spin called "Songs and stories". That is an unbelievably great sounding recording!!.

Oppo is great for firmware updates, out of warranty service and any updates at all really. The next generation of Oppo BD players will be different birds altogether. The BDP-93 will be the HDMI audio unit to use if you have the processor to decode the Hi def audio formats and the BDP-95 will be a different animal altogether as far as the guts inside are concerned (weighing in at 17lbs!!). The BDP-95 will not be backward compatable at all with the 93. If you want the killer DAC's and analog out performance, you will have to buy the BDP-95 outright. What's a thousand bucks amongst friends right!! :-)

[chanlon]

DTS-HD and DD-HD are miles ahead of "standard" DD and DTS soundtracks imo.

Its not even close. Pick up Jeff Beck Live at Ronnie Scotts.
Its unbelievable!

[TommyV]

DTS-HD and DD-HD are miles ahead of "standard" DD and DTS soundtracks imo.

Its not even close. Pick up Jeff Beck Live at Ronnie Scotts.
Its unbelievable!

Agreed. The new codecs are miles ahead of the legacy ones. Check out Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds BD.

[madmac]

Yes your both probably right but......it still has to be well recorded first and foremost !. Many are not!.

[chanlon]

Have any of you folks decided to use the multi-channel analog inputs on your Rotel 1570 vs using the internal DAC's for bluray audio?

This would be either for a) to rid yourself of any HDMI handshaking issues since there is no video switching happening or b) found the DAC's of the bluray player superior to the Burr Browns in the Rotel.

I've been eyeing the new Oppo BDP-95 with the ES9018 Sabre DAC and thinking about using this with the analog inputs. However, I feel I could have kept my Rotel 1069 for this alternative and almost see it somewhat wasteful.

[madmac]

The Oppo BDP-95 will without a doubt, beat the internal DAC's of the Rotel. The Oppo 95 is quite the piece of hardware!!.

[TommyV]

Have any of you folks decided to use the multi-channel analog inputs on your Rotel 1570 vs using the internal DAC's for bluray audio?

This would be either for a) to rid yourself of any HDMI handshaking issues since there is no video switching happening or b) found the DAC's of the bluray player superior to the Burr Browns in the Rotel.

I've been eyeing the new Oppo BDP-95 with the ES9018 Sabre DAC and thinking about using this with the analog inputs. However, I feel I could have kept my Rotel 1069 for this alternative and almost see it somewhat wasteful.

I am sorry to hear that they have not been able to work out the kinks in the 1570. I am very happy with my 1069 and have no need to run multi analogs.

As far as the 95 I am sure it will be a very nice player. No one can know for sure how nice it is until it is actually released but it looks good on paper. I bought a Denon DBP-4010UDCI for my 2 ch analog setup but it would be equally strong on multi analog use. I paid less than $1000 and it is available now. I personally like the Denon better than the Oppo 83SE platform especially for multi analog use.

[Blindamood]

I am sorry to hear that they have not been able to work out the kinks in the 1570. I am very happy with my 1069 and have no need to run multi analogs.

I've been using the RSP-1570 for several months now, and am not experiencing any 'kinks.' All of my digital sources (cable, blu-ray, and Roku) are working rather well. And yes, the newer uncompressed codecs are noticably superior.

[chanlon]

Sorry....I should clarify. I don't experience HDMI handshaking errors.
Its been very good in that department. Its the HDMI digital audio delay that drives me. So I was thinking if the cost of a new Oppo would help me get over this issue.

[Anovak]

Sorry....I should clarify. I don't experience HDMI handshaking errors.
Its been very good in that department. Its the HDMI digital audio delay that drives me. So I was thinking if the cost of a new Oppo would help me get over this issue.

Hi Chanlon,

That is precisely what annoys me so much as well about the 1570.....and, I have the Oppo BDP83 which is a really fine player, but if you're thinking the hdmi audio delays will be gone, that won't happen as far as I can tell.

For example, put an SACD in the Oppo (Mobile Fidelity UHR SACD, Doobie Brothers, Toulouse Street), a stereo SACD, and then use the hdmi out from the Oppo to the 1570. Since the Oppo passes the signal bitstream to the 1570, I can then use the 5ch stereo mode and listen to the disc using all 5.1 speakers and it is truly amazing!

However, there is a significant delay of the audio signal at the beginning of every track selected as the 1570 tries to "latch on" to it. I find myself pressing the |<< button on the remote over and over until, and sometimes I just give up, it catches it at the very beginning of the track.

It's not about the player, say both Rotel and Oppo, but rather the 1570 internal hardware. It just isn't fast enough to do the job, and Rotel says there is nothing that can be done about that because it is not software related.

They have released firmware updates that actually fixed, or kinda 95% fixed would be more accurate because I still get occasional delays, the same issue where the Toslink connection is used, decreasing the time it takes to lock on to the optical signal for cd playback as that too, initially, evidenced such annoying delays.

So, at least for now, we're stuck with the first few bars of audio of the selected track using hdmi with cd/sacd/dvd-a playback being chopped off. Rotel urges using the 5.1 analog inputs, but that does not allow me to play back the stereo sacd in the manner described.....only get front left and right.....but, no delays.

Hope that helps you with your decision-making.

Andy

[chanlon]

Hi again. I was considering buying the newer "audiophile" Oppo to use the analog output into the Rotel. However, I can't say I'm big on that either.
It would basically make my upgrade from the 1069 to the 1570 a waste of money.

I already own an Oppo BDP83 like you connected via HDMI. Yeah, I have the same delays as you. Errrr....It drives me crazy too!

[madmac]

@chanlon....Don't get the BDP-95 if your not going to use the analog out section. You'll be wasting a lot of money. Get the BDP-93 which is available now.

[Anovak]

Hi again. I was considering buying the newer "audiophile" Oppo to use the analog output into the Rotel. However, I can't say I'm big on that either.
It would basically make my upgrade from the 1069 to the 1570 a waste of money.

I already own an Oppo BDP83 like you connected via HDMI. Yeah, I have the same delays as you. Errrr....It drives me crazy too!

Chanlon, sympathies.....or rather, empathies in order eh? Look at the positives though.....the sound is really, really nice!

Yeah, I hear you on the wasted upgrade issue.....but in reality, I also believe as others have mentioned that the DAC's in the 1570 are actually quite good! I would say the sound is more detailed, true and "lighter" as compared with the DAC's from the Oppo although not bad there either.

The Oppo DAC's seem to present a "fuller," maybe "richer" sound, but I'm not all that thrilled about it and prefer a more reserved, accurate and detailed kind of sound that I find comes from the 1570 doing the converting.

I remember reading somewhere that this comes from very slight distortion introduced and not recognized as such and at such a low level that it becomes mistaken for music content instead. In fact, when compared to DAC's that produce the information more faithfully, auditioners have commented that they felt something was "missing...."

Unfortunately, I have not been able to audition the SE version of the 83 so can't comment on that.

The delays therefore come into play when selecting the 1570's DACs to do the converting, but I'm thinking that Rotel will figure out a way to address that issue at some point and then it will be "all good." At least we can hope, and keep writing to them letting them know it IS an issue well worth their attention and concern.

All the best....

Andy

[anbayanyay]

Solution for computer HDMI sources to 1570

I had the same issues with delays of several seconds in starting audio playback with my computer. I run linux (Fedora 15) just FYI... what I did was this: I got my computer to 'play' a stream of silence. I think the delay is when the receiver switches over to playback after there's no HDMI audio stream at all. If it's getting a steady stream of "silence silence silence..." that is at least something, and the receiver is latched onto that stream and has already done the negotiation. When you do go to play something, it starts up right away because the something you're playing muxes in with the nothing you're also playing.

Detail: the sox package has a command called play. I'm using pulseaudio (for which I had to set an environment variable AUDIODRIVER to pulseaudio). I issued a command line command as follows:

play -d -n synth 3600000.0 sin 1.0 gain -1000

This starts a synthesized sine wave of 1 hz, at a gain of -1000 (basically inaudible), of a duration of a lot of seconds amounting to 1000 hours, going out to the default sound sever, which has been set to pulseaudio. Now, when I open youtube and start playing something, there isn't a 4-5 second delay before I hear anything -- I get audio immediately.

-----

Your mileage may vary -- with a standalone device like a CD player, you probably have no way of making it do this, but with a PC you can. This might also be why the PS3 works great -- dollars to doughnuts it's constantly sending out a stream of HDMI audio, even if that audio stream is null.

[hurin]

The number one solution to handshake issues is to have a Bluray player with dual HDMI outputs.

[madmac]

Are the handshake issues happening both with video and audio or just the audio?

[gp4Jesus]

The number one solution to handshake issues is to have a Bluray player with dual HDMI outputs.

Who makes a good one so I know what upgrade to dream about when bored (@ work)?

[hurin]

Oppo 93, you can also get an easy to install multiregion kit for it.

BD is actually a nice format, but the studios do everything to make things more difficult for consumers by adding stuff that is either useless, unwanted or unneeded, copy protection, BD Java and BD Live.
Copy protection cause handshake issues, but do nothing to stop movies from being pirated as anyone who ever visited a bitorrent site will tell you. BD Java adds pretty looking menus but mean you can't use auto resume if you turn off the player in the middle of the movie. BD Live was made in hell and is the reason I will never connect my player to the internet, as it causes tons of bugs and will tipple or quadruple your load times.