Help me Obi Wan, your my only hope with the RS52

[Evil Twin]

Which of the three would that be? The 95-6814 is the only one that appears to have a decent frequency response, but I don't like the low Q of the resonance -- reeks of thickish ferrofluid. Do you have distortion measurements?

Also, the RS-52 is hardly more expensive and has proven low distortion and will hopefully be around for a longer time.

The overall design will be similar to OLDER designs which used the MB Quart dome mids, but will use the RS180, RS52, and D26NC55.

Before my morning latte, the Force is not strong in my written communications.

[technimac]

How about a double Latte?

Here ya go!



Don'cha have a little trouble getting the "foam moustache" off your uber-black helmet though?

Cheers, Bruce

[Rudy Jakubin]

The overall design will be similar to OLDER designs which used the MB Quart dome mids, but will use the RS180, RS52, and D26NC55.

Before my morning latte, the Force is not strong in my written communications.

How soon will we sand warriors see a crossover design?
I got all the drivers and some PE premade boxes!!!

[JonP]

Last time I looked, they were more like $80 for the combo. If you are talking about the Neo3, that is.

Pretty sure he was talking about the $4.80 Dayton Neo 3/4"...

[Evil Twin]

How about a double Latte?

Here ya go!



Don'cha have a little trouble getting the "foam moustache" off your uber-black helmet though?

Cheers, Bruce

Actually, it's loaded in a pressurized stainless steel thermos which snaps into a cavity beneath prothesis biosupport control panel on my chest (where the lights and indicators are)- I just tap a button for a caffiene boost direct ingested into the gastro-intestinal tract. Alas, the flavor benefits are not realized, unless an eructation follows ingestion.

[Evil Twin]

How soon will we sand warriors see a crossover design?
I got all the drivers and some PE premade boxes!!!

The tweeters are on the way, as are the midrange domes, and the test baffle is on hand. It depends on how long quelling a minor disturbance in Correlia takes before I return to the SubSeinar Acoustics Laboratory.

[Spanky Ham]

Pretty sure he was talking about the $4.80 Dayton Neo 3/4"...

Yes, that is correct. That is the one Peter used in his design over at PE.

The tweeters are on the way, as are the midrange domes, and the test baffle is on hand. It depends on how long quelling a minor disturbance in Correlia takes before I return to the SubSeinar Acoustics Laboratory.

Lord Vader,
I apollogize. I lost sight of the Vifas in the asteroid belt. Fortunately, the bounty hunter found them. I am looking forward to your plans for this new and more powerful design.

[WillyD]

Has any progress been made with this center?

Thanks.

[Evil Twin]

The Emperor's demands on my time have been most taxing. However, an exchnage of drivers for a set of RS52's is under way, and a preliminary crossover design with published data for the mid and tweeter and measured for the RS180 has been roughed out- upon receipt of the midranges, new test baffles will be fabricated and final acoustic test data measurements completed. That may not happen until the start of the Christmas holiday, as the last two weeks before Christmas require interstellar business travel, with lost weekends.

[morbo]

excellent news indeed!

[WillyD]

Thanks for the update Evil Twin, much appreciated.

[technimac]

Thanks for the update ET.

Your Modula MT design keeps the compliments flowing around here. :T

[Spanky Ham]

Zaph has a thread on the RS52 over on PE.

[Evil Twin]

Well, knowing the propensity of HT Guide members to push the limits, and for ease of implementing BSC, I was planning 800 Hz on the low end, 3-4 kHz on the top end anyway. Thanks for the link
s to John's thread and testing.

[dwk]

Is the plan for this design still to use the D26NC55? I thought they were discontinued - am I missing something?. The Empire may have reliable sources of unobtanium, but what of us poor, law-abiding subjects of the Empire?

[WillyD]

Madisound still has the D26NC55 in stock.

[dwk]

Madisound still has the D26NC55 in stock.

Ah, I see. That's what I get for looking at the 'catalog' rather than the 'store'. Guess I should grab some in anticipation.

[Evil Twin]

Proposed 3-Way Transfer Function Model

While the greatest interest in developing the Duelund style crossover holds for the larger systems, a brief examination shows it holds potential for this center channel HT design also.

The most interesting aspect is that if properly executed the drivers are all in relative phase with each other at any frequency, with a net total phase rotation of 360 degrees from the low bass to the treble, similar to the phase rotation of a two way LR-4 crossover, but with lower peak group delay.

For a first look, a damping coefficient of 2.828 was used, with a nominal center frequency for the midrange of 1500 Hz.





This proposed transfer function should support playback levels over 100 dB; notch filters will be required to suppress the midwoofer breakup as well as the midrange breakup, but as the nominal transfer function level will be below - 24 dB, impact on amplitude and phase for the overall transfer function should be acceptable.

[Bri]

I'm curious - how would this WTMW perform when flipped vertical and used in a pair for stereo (instead of horizontal for a center)? Can't wait to see what ya come up with ET!

[Evil Twin]

If built in mirrored pairs, possibly with the tweeter towards the inside, it should work quite well. Could even be a new reference in this size category, but it's too early to tell- no reason for word of this to get out to the Trade Federation.

[Paul Ebert]

I, too, would be most interested in a stereo version.

[Evil Twin]

A more conventionally scaled plot of the suggested acoustic transfer function.



Note that the drivers are -6dB at the crossover frequency, not -3 dB as in most conventional crossovers. This may be adjusted to fill in the power response; it matters whether a BBC dip is preferred (better for most commercial program material), or something closer to flat power response, which could justify elevating the midrange level a couple more dB.

This suggests a two or three way switch control- "Presense".

[Evil Twin]

A minor update- Parts Express does not have stock on the RS52; expected back in stock in the middle of February.

A hostage driver swap with Brian Bunge is not yet complete- still waiting on the RS52's.

[Bri]

Wow what a bummer. I can't find any place online other than PE that sells them either. Anyone got 1-3 lying around they wanna sell? ;-)

[Brian Bunge]

ET, sorry about that. I got wrapped up in the Federation Holiday and didn't get a chance to ship them out yet. I will be back from my trip to the outer regions in a few days and will get them shipped out to you then.

[Evil Twin]

Apology accepted, Brian.

I understand the many activities family require this time of year.

Pray you can send them soon; Emperor Marsh is not as forgiving as I am....

[Dennis H]

Apology accepted, Brian.

I understand the many activities family require this time of year.

Pray you can send them soon; Emperor Marsh is not as forgiving as I am....

Woah! Personality meltdown! Now we've got a warm-fuzzy ET and an evil JonMarsh. Be afraid, Padawans. Be very afraid. I sense a strong Disturbance in The Force.

[Brian Bunge]

Thank you, Dark Lord!

[technimac]

A minor update- Parts Express does not have stock on the RS52; expected back in stock in the middle of February.

Badder news just in.... PE now doesn't expect the RS52 in until the middle of March..

But at least the RS180's and Vifa D26NC55's are available.

And if Evil Twin manages to pry himself away from crushing rebellions in the nether regions of the galaxy long enough to get the design done, there could be a sublime convergence of cabinet, crossover and driver parts by the end of March, culminating in this elusive WMTW design actually coming to fruition. :B

I've got a space reserved for this baby in my HT, but the Audax HT center doing service there will just have stay a bit longer.

Cheers, Bruce

[JonMarsh]

I got a Hypernet message from ET yesterday that he's still waiting for a set of RS52 exchanged from Brian Bunge for RS28's. I think he's even considering a three across deal, with mirrored versions stood on end....

[WillyD]

I think he's even considering a three across deal, with mirrored versions stood on end....

Mmmmmm....yes. Tell him that sounds superb.

Also, I checked the D26NC55 stock at Madisound and they still have over 100. So I suppose that is good news.

[Bri]

Badder news just in.... PE now doesn't expect the RS52 in until the middle of March..

As Luke would say, "Nooooooooooooo!". :cry: Guess I'm just gonna have to give up waiting and make 3 Modula MTMs like I describe in my thread over in the Home Theater forum: https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24089. I was still thinking about holding out for these in a three-across deal but this news is definitely the end of that plan. I think the Modulas will sound fantastic, but the thought of this design puts a smile on my face

[WillyD]

Bri - You could post a "WTB - RS52's" on the PE board. I guarantee you there is someone out there who has some they would sell.

[dawaro]

I got a Hypernet message from ET yesterday that he's still waiting for a set of RS52 exchanged from Brian Bunge for RS28's. I think he's even considering a three across deal, with mirrored versions stood on end....

Does that mean not only a WMTW but also a WWMT? Or are you talking about WMTW's across the front?

[Evil Twin]

We are considering WMTM's across the front, stood on end and mirror imaged for mains, laid down for the CC. This is a provisional plan.

The Emperor was most disturbed when I brought him the news of Parts Express further delay- pray they do not disappoint him further, as he is NOT as forgiving as I am...

[Jim Holtz]

We are considering WMTM's across the front, stood on end and mirror imaged for mains, laid down for the CC. This is a provisional plan.

The Emperor was most disturbed when I brought him the news of Parts Express further delay- pray they do not disappoint him further, as he is NOT as forgiving as I am...

Oh, Oh... I'm still confused about the potential L/R speaker design? WMTM rather than WWMT?

Pardon the intrusion my Lord.

Jim

[Evil Twin]

Considering the range of crossover frequencies and layouts, several plans are possible, but if using the Parts Express cabinets is a design goal/possibility, then stacking the drivers in a roow is not feasible. Furthermore, with a nominal 800 Hz midrange crossover, the total CTC space should be kept reasonable, and a tighter clustering and better dispersion pattern should be realised with the midrange/tweeter goup located between the midwoofers.

Otherwise, one would almost be compelled to make a case for a 3.5 way, entailing further crossover complexities and component expense- a point not taken lightly on this board (witness the dismal popularity of the Modula MTM next to the NatalieP).

A mirror imaged set of WMTW and WTMW may fit the requirements most expeditiously- but only a real world evaluation will make this certain. This reuqires some care in the midrange to tweeter crossover and establishing the optimum lobing pattern. Possibly a cutaway in the midrange mounting plate will be required.

[---k---]

We are considering WMTM's across the front, stood on end and mirror imaged for mains, laid down for the CC. This is a provisional plan.

Dark Lord,
I would be very interested in a WMTM design. Or was that a disturbance in force that caused that to be WMTM instead of WMTW?

I'm currently being kept awake at night trying to decide between the Nat P and the Dennis Murphy RS 3-way. The dark side is strongly tempting me, and I will serve you faithfully as your guinea pig. While I think it is generally a good thing that your recent designs have taken advantage of the PE cabinets, I prefer to build my own cabinets, so size won't matter to me. I also don't have a problem if cost rises up to around $800-$1000 per pair. The only request I would have be that the center be less than <11" and have BSC appropriates for a big box above.

BTW, Chris when you read this and smile at another addict born, know that you will likely be asked to help me get started with the first cross-over assembly.

[WillyD]

Ryan - I think the Lord had a typo there. He meant to say WMTW.

Rest assured that there are many guinea pigs waiting in the wings. I have the RS180s, RS52, and the 1ft^3 cabinet waiting myself. I am very anxious.

[---k---]

Grrrrr.

Since Thomas made the comment the other day about him and Jon preferring the to have more mids than woofers (paraphrased). I've been wondering why not a more manageable WMTM 3-way design. I'm sure there is a reason.

[Evil Twin]

Grrrrr.

Since Thomas made the comment the other day about him and Jon preferring the to have more mids than woofers (paraphrased). I've been wondering why not a more manageable WMTM 3-way design. I'm sure there is a reason.

Just as there are many methods to deal with Rebel scum, there are numerous conifgurations which MIGHT be useful or practical. But "midrange" is a rather loosely used term, and whereas true woofers may not fare well above 250-350 Hz, midwoofers can be extended much higher...

In this case, the use of the RS52 is in a higher frequency range than would be desirable for the smaller midwooferes such as the RS125 or RS150, so while matters of Xmax still have a bearing on the design choices, the common request has been for a compact HT center channel three way, one that would fit in the larger Parts Express MTM style cabinet.

For the most part this rules out a larger woofer; as well, the higher operating range of the dome rules out integration of two unless a lower crossover frequency is chosen.

In the past there have been WMTMW built with dome mids and 8" woofers, using MB Quart components and Kevlar Scanspeak woofers. They were neither small nor light nor inexpensive - quite the contrary, in fact. With an MTM spread between two woofers, it was necessary to limit the upper crossover point to 3.3 kHz, and that was actually too high for proper integration of the mid-trebel array- with the CTC spacing that resulted for the midrange, the crossover should have been about 2.3 kHz.

NOT a desirable situation for a dome mid three way, and one which would be exacerbated with cone midrange units.

Fortunately, there is good news, as a recent Hypernet communication indicates the RS52s from a Rebel smuggler/trader are in route now.

[Dennis H]

Too bad the RS52 doesn't have a small faceplate like the Morel mid domes. It would make it a much simpler matter to put the rebel scum in their place.

[Rick Craig]

Ryan - I think the Lord had a typo there. He meant to say WMTW.

Rest assured that there are many guinea pigs waiting in the wings. I have the RS180s, RS52, and the 1ft^3 cabinet waiting myself. I am very anxious.

I'm working with a DIY builder on a dual RS180 / RS52 / Fountek ribbon 3-way that will be a public domain design and we hope to have it published in Audio Express.

[Jim Holtz]

I'm working with a DIY builder on a dual RS180 / RS52 / Fountek ribbon 3-way that will be a public domain design and we hope to have it published in Audio Express.

Hi Rick,

I'm looking forward to seeing it! :T

Jim

[WillyD]

I'm working with a DIY builder on a dual RS180 / RS52 / Fountek ribbon 3-way that will be a public domain design and we hope to have it published in Audio Express.

That sounds great Rick. Maybe I ought to come by for a listen whenever it is done. I've been a bit interested in ribbons. :T