Watch Out Krell, here comes Rotel:tales of the RMB 1077

[DrJRapp]

Jerry,
Nice review. I have to question one thing though. We know you have Klipschs so I wonder how much of a difference it would make if we took the Digital amp and put it on a much more demanding load say for instance a set of Maggies. Not all of us have speakers with the same efficiency rating as your Klipschs. So I wonder if the enthusiasm we all have for this new amp might need to be tempered until we all experience it for ourselves because we may not get the difference or it's possible it might be worse(assuming we are driving the new digital amp into clipping with a stronger load).

Make sense?

Yes, it makes a lot of sense. I think speakers with much lower efficiency may be too much for ANY 100 wpc amp. I'm waiting for my Klipsch Dealer, who is also a B&W dealer and a Rotel dealer to get a 1077 in for demo so I can listen to a pair of B&W 803Ds on them. I've listened to the 803 on a 1080 and not been impressed, then listened to it with a 1090 and was impressed so the 1077 803 audition should be a good test.

The aforementioned aside, I mentioned earlier even though the RF7s are efficient, they are not an easy load, having a whopper of an impedance dip in the low frequencies that sucks the brains out of an amp incapable of delivering high enough current. That's why a lot of people think the RF7s sound harsh or thin when driven by a receiver even a high end receiver.

James: I've been listening to the 1077 mostly in 2 channel mode and it's doing an amazing job for an amp designed for HT. More about that later!

[DrJRapp]

Thanks Doc for taking the heat off of me.

I agree with Doc on the point that the soundstage is different.

You're welcome Andrew, you'll get my bill on Monday....LOL...kidding of course!

The 1077 is a bit more forward than the 1080 and that makes it seem like it has less depth. The depth is there except the musicians seem to be projected out into the room with you rather than being in front of you on a stage. I'm kinda getting to like the effect. Oddly, for an amp that is designed for HT this isn't necessarily a good quality for the center speaker. It seems to make the sound from the center more diffuse and less anchored to the screen. I think I mentioned before that the sound was very reminiscent of the RSP 1066/ RMB 1075 combo. The center channel steering of the 1066 was not as distinct as the RSP 1098 is.

My wife and I were talking about an hour ago about the overall sound. I spun a disc of Phantom of the Opera and the opening organ music, everyone knows that "daaaaah, da, da, da, daaaaah".... has a bottom end that one would swear was coming from my SVS PB2+ sub, but I was operating in 2 channel bypass mode not a multi-channel mode. The tonality (voicing) of this amp with my speakers is just so ...right!

And I'm only about 40 hours into break-in.

Andrew, what are your using for speakers? What's their efficiency rating?

[Lefonque]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum, and I just purchased the 1077. I was hoping to get a black unit, but I was told by my dealer that Rotel wouldn't even take his order for the black one until the end of the month. Anyway, I decided to bite the bullet and pick up the silver one and begin entering the world of seperates.

Unlike the good Dr. and Andrew, my current components are not high caliber. I'm using a Yamaha rx-v2400 as my pre/pro, an Integra DPC-8.5 as my source and Paradigm reference studio 60s v2 (91db sensitivity in room, 88db anechoic) as my speakers. I was using the Yamaha to previously power my speakers.

I'm currently listening in 2-channel mode, no subwoofer, peq turned on and speakers set to large. I've only been listening for about 1 hour at a moderate volume. The amp has made a huge difference on my setup already. The bass and mid-range have more presence (forward) and more defined. Before the bass just seemed sloppy and slow. The soundstage is larger and the placement of the intruments and singers are more defined. I've been listening to a couple of cd's with some some panning effects, and the panning seems more seemless and even.

I'll update more when the amp breaks in more. I don't want to push it just yet.

[DrJRapp]

Let me be the first to say welcome. Your first "separates" purchase is certainly an awesome one, congratulations!

[Andrew M Ward]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum, and I just purchased the 1077. I was hoping to get a black unit, but I was told by my dealer that Rotel wouldn't even take his order for the black one until the end of the month. Anyway, I decided to bite the bullet and pick up the silver one and begin entering the world of seperates.

Unlike the good Dr. and Andrew, my current components are not high caliber. I'm using a Yamaha rx-v2400 as my pre/pro, an Integra DPC-8.5 as my source and Paradigm reference studio 60s v2 (91db sensitivity in room, 88db anechoic) as my speakers. I was using the Yamaha to previously power my speakers.

I'm currently listening in 2-channel mode, no subwoofer, peq turned on and speakers set to large. I've only been listening for about 1 hour at a moderate volume. The amp has made a huge difference on my setup already. The bass and mid-range have more presence (forward) and more defined. Before the bass just seemed sloppy and slow. The soundstage is larger and the placement of the intruments and singers are more defined. I've been listening to a couple of cd's with some some panning effects, and the panning seems more seemless and even.

I'll update more when the amp breaks in more. I don't want to push it just yet.

Your description of the sounds and experience is fantastic!
(Who said this wasn't a cult?)

[Feisal K]

Andrew, vinyl is a cult. Seeing as how digital amplification will become mainstream, people with digital amps now are just early adopters ;D

[Adz]

Any potential for the fuse issues associated with the 1080 still plaguing some or is it a completely different design?

[RebelMan]

James: I've been listening to the 1077 mostly in 2 channel mode and it's doing an amazing job for an amp designed for HT. More about that later!

Good to hear. Hopefully you will still feel this way AFTER the 1077 and 803D match up. However good the 1077 may be, I still believe the two-channel bred 1092 will sound even better and it better. Afterall, I have Bryston lined up to take Rotel's place if it fails me. :twisted:

[DrJRapp]

Good to hear. Hopefully you will still feel this way AFTER the 1077 and 803D match up. However good the 1077 may be, I still believe the two-channel bred 1092 will sound even better and it better. Afterall, I have Bryston lined up to take Rotel's place if it fails me. :twisted:

I think I'd go for NuForce 9s with 803ds, more cost effective and like quality.

Decision was made this moring, just a half hour ago that the 1077 is a keeper.

[DrJRapp]

Well, I just made a friend that I converted over from Denon to Rotel very happy an hour ago as I watched him cart my trusty Rmb 1075 out the door to use with his RSX 1056. I guess I'm fully committed to the 1077 as my main amp. Now I just need to decide if I'm going to keep my 1080 for posterity, or sell it too.

The 1077 continues to improve in small amounts. When Adam was here to pick up the 1075 I demoed a very loud passage ( that same opening from Phantom that I mentioned before) just to illustrate how well the 1077 could hang together. I turned the volume control on the 1098 up incrementally to 85 at which point we were both ready to cover our ears. No compression, no clipping, very linear sound...just amazing.

On the other side of the coin, earlier today my wife suggested that we try a test that I put a Halo A21 thru two months ago. While listening to Sorcerers Apprentice on RCA Red Seal at comfortable levels there are frequent triangle beats that just seem to float in the air. Then we turned the spl way down and the A21 fell apart at this point, it lost all high end material. Same test with the 1077: one could still hear the triangles. Very linear amp.

[RebelMan]

I think I'd go for NuForce 9s with 803ds, more cost effective and like quality.

Maybe, but I am not even remotely interested in NuForce or other (current) ICEpower derivatives. If I were, I would have been less interested in your feedback here. You should know by now my preference for all things equal (like brand) whenever possible. It's an anal thing!

In any event, I appreciate the time you put into evaluating and sharing your experiences with the 1077. Your feedback has been instrumental in my upgrade planning efforts. Nice to see you sticking with this club for a while longer too! :T

[gianni]

Thanks for the initial review Jerry. As far as I know, this must be one of the first reviews on the 1077. From your experience, looks like we have something to look forward to in these new amps. Please keep us posted as to your findings as you accumulate more listening time.

[Aussie Geoff]

Jerry,

Thanks for the reviews to date. I'm glad the RMB-1077 worked out for you as you took a real "leap of faith" buying it. There does indeed seem to be a common pattern to the sound of these top line digital amps from the characteristics you describe in the 1077 to what I have heard on othjers like the Bel Canto and NuForce...

Now that your amp has settled in, would you mind doing a more complete review where you look at all aspects again including soundstage (remember you had a minor issue with that) overall transparency, dynamics etc on HT and stereo... Comparison to other amps (1080 and A21 etc)..

I think this would be helpful for eveyone as at the moment the timeing of the different mini-reviews leaves questions asked that I know we would all love to have answered (a bit like your reviews of the A21 in Club Parasound)... ;x(

Geoff

[DrJRapp]

I know I've been throwing my comments out a bit at a time. Tomorrow I'm going to be doing some multi-channel music listening and I'll do an overall summary. The 1077 has about 40 hours on it right now, by tomorrow that should be 50-55. The fact that I have decided to keep the 1077 and sell my 1075 (It's gone already) says a whole lot!

[bleeding ears]

Hi all,

Great stuff doc, sounds like the 1077 is doing very well thus far!

From what I can gather this digital amplification is not only new for Rotel
but is new for everyone? correct me if I am wrong.

Interestingly I notice the current models of Sony ES series a/v receivers
also have digital amplification.

I think they call it Master S pro amplification or something similar

I have seen the 3000 ES which I think is the base model for the Sony ES
series for sale on ebay, with a claimed wattage of 150 watts, which is,
well, lets say almost unbelieveable.

However,given that it is digital amplification it may have some good traits
or maybe even an edge on other receivers without digital amplification?
:W :W (May)


In addition to the Doc's comparisons, which are on going it would be
interesting to know anyones experiences with these digital receivers
against a so called regularly amplified receiver.

I know this is a Rotel Forum but since you guys are discussing digital
amplification, I thought it would be another source of interesting
comparison and discussion even if it relates to a Sony!

Something to ponder until the Doc gets back with more.

Aussie Geoff here - Bleedng ears - you should repost this in the Home Theater Forum as it is much more about Sony's than Rotel...

Yes your right Geoff, I will start a thread in the Home Theatre section.

[DrJRapp]

Digital switching amps ( class G) aren't exactly "new". They are just starting to hit the mainstream. Bob Carver had versions 30 years ago when SS amps first hit the market. Subwoofer amps and car amps have been "digital" for years. Newer modulation, filtering and manufacturing techniques are allowing manufacturers to impliment the technology at more reasonable cost.

I realize I promised eveyone a comprehensive review by today, but I'm not sure I'm going to get to it until late tonight.

[Dmantis]

DrJRapp,
how is the dynamic range on the digital amp? Good reserve power? Good thead by the way.

Dmantis

[DrJRapp]

DrJRapp,
how is the dynamic range on the digital amp? Good reserve power? Good thead by the way.

Dmantis

Dynamic range is a function of the efficiency of your speakers, in my case the dynamic range at rated power is 122 dba at 1 meter, which is very close to the 126 dba limit of the speakers.

I think what you may have intended to ask is what is the Dynamic Headroom of the 1077, is that the case? If so, that spec isn't published but I suspect each channel driven independently, as one would experience in a real world sitauation, not simultaneously as required by FTC spec will be around 4.5 db or about 300 watts peak. It just sounds that powerful. Maybe Andrew Ward can help with some "unpublished" specs.

To answer your question subjectively, the amp has terrific dynamic sound and it is very quick to recover from a peak. I listen intently to Master and Commander at very high levels where the cannon shots come at you one after another in very quick sucession. The amp showed absolutely no sign of fatigue or instability.

[mattburk]

DrJ,
Do you run your fronts as small or large?

[DrJRapp]

DrJ,
Do you run your fronts as small or large?

For 2 channel I run everything in bypass which utilizes the full range of the speakers and adds no sub, equalization, modification or control of anything other than volume.

For HT my mains are run full range, and my center, surrounds and rears are crossed over to the sub at varying frequencies. 80hz for the center and surrounds and 100hz for the rears.

[grit]

Jerry,

Allow me to throw in my thanks for your review. I'm always looking for how to spend my next upgrade dollar, and presently, I'm looking to improve my 2ch stereo sound for CDs. I have the RSP-1068, RMB-1075 amp, and RDV-1060 (in bypass for 2ch stereo). Speakers are B&W 700s (703s up front).

I was considering a dedicated CD player OR an RB-1080 to improve the 2ch sound. I don't get to listen to my music loud, and I was particularly intrigued about your comment regarding the Halo A21 while listening to Sorcerers Apprentice.

On the other side of the coin, earlier today my wife suggested that we try a test that I put a Halo A21 thru two months ago. While listening to Sorcerers Apprentice on RCA read seal at comfortable levels there are frequent triangle beats that just seem to float in the air. Then we turned the spl way down and the A21 fell apart at this point, it lost all high end material. Same test with the 1077: one could still hear the triangles. Very linear amp.

I'm very intrigued and have a couple of questions, if ya don't mind. What's "read seal"? What are "triangle beats"? How did the 1080 compare in this test? Thanks for any input you can offer... your insight is going a long way in helping me to determine what my next upgrade will be.

[DrJRapp]

Typo, sorry that should have read RCA Red Seal, a classical disc label. A triangle is a percussion instrument that sounds like a bell. It is a metal bar bent in the shape of a triangle, struck by a small metal hammer. I has a vey pure, very high frequency sound. Triangles, along with cymbals are instrument sounds I use to gage the overall transparency of the sound. In the case of the A21 there is a deficiency in high end frequency response and transparency.

The 1077 sounds like a stronger amp than the 1080 because it's voicing is more forward. At this point in time, knowing what speakers you are driving, I would choose the 1077 over the 1080. I'll have more details in my wrap up coming soon.

Not knowing what the 1060 sounds like in 2 channel analog, I would consider the dedicated cd player first...just my $.02.

[RobP]

I think I'd go for NuForce 9s with 803ds, more cost effective and like quality.

Jerry,
How would you rate the NuForce to the Rotel 1077 in terms of sound quality and performance?

Robert P.

[DrJRapp]

Jerry,
How would you rate the NuForce to the Rotel 1077 in terms of sound quality and performance?

Robert P.

Can't say, I've never heard a Nuforce.

[chrispy35]

Anyone seen the guts?

How about a picture of the inside of the 1077? Only if there's a way to do it without voiding the warranty though.

[Andrew M Ward]

Jumping in...

Does the 1077 use the standard ICE module with the integrated switching supply? Is it known what Rotel does to distinguish this amp from others such as PS Audio, etc?

Thanks...

ICEpower only provides a "module" the remaining portions of the product are to be engineered to completion via whatever means are at your disposal. If you have engineers available and savvy enough to complete the project it will be virtually an “in house” project.

If not then you would out source that portion of the project as well.

[DrJRapp]

I think using a pre-engineered piece of technology like the Icepower module isn't any different than purchasing a cpu from Crystal for the 1068 and 1098, or Burr Brown DACs or remote controls made by Winamp. Without these sorces Rotel probably could never produce what it does. Nor could any other manufacturer for that matter.

[DrJRapp]

Summary Time

I remember years ago one of the manufacturers billed their amp as a straight wire with gain. That would be the ultimate amp, as it would add hardly anything in terms of distortion and noise and would loose very little as well. When I opened the box for the RMB 1077 and took out the diminutive device inside that ancient sound bite came to mind.

We are taking a giant leap towards the ultimate amp: A straight wire with gain. I’ve spent the past 5 days burning her in and playing all types of source material, and offer the following observations. I’ll also include some comparison to the three other Rotel amps I own, an RB 1080, a RB 1050 and an RMB 1075, and some other high end amps I’ve auditioned on my equipment, a Halo A21 and Krell Showcase.

The 1077 is definitely a Rotel in sound signature, clean, clear and musical. However, it has much more of the mid and low end weight and forwardness of the Krell Showcase or a Halo. The mid and low bass are much stronger than what I am used to experiencing with my 1080 making the 1077 sound like a much more powerful amp. The Halo A21 that I tested, with it’s 250 wpc has similar weight in the low end. The top end is very extended without being bright. The 1077 is less “rounded” than most Rotel amps, it is also much more transparent then the Halo, who’s top end is so rounded that it seems to be designed specifically for brighter speakers that have hot tops, or for people who’s high frequency hearing is already shot from too many years of high SPL listening.

When I first turned it on the 1077 was a bit harsh at the top. Sibilant sounds grated like sandpaper. Over time she has smoothed out considerably. This initial harshness is a characteristic I find of all Rotel amps. After break in the overall sound signature of the 1077 is as close to perfect as I can imagine for use with MY speakers. The Krell Signature 5 channel amp I “borrowed” last year left a similar impression.

I wouldn’t have expected an amp with a FTC rating of only 100 wpc to be so powerful. I think this new breed of amps will have to come along with a new way of defining amplifier power. AMD had to do this a few years back when it’s processors performed on the level of much higher clock speed Intel processors. AMD started to rate their processors at Intel equivalent clock speed, rather than true clock speed. On day 3 I cranked up the 1077 for a rendition of the "Stars and Stripes" played by the Boston Pops to a level that could be heard by just about the entire neighborhood. I didn't experience any "compression" of the sound as I would expect from an amp sporting only 100wpc (and have experienced with my 1075 while driving the mains). I’ve played some heavy material since at “insane” SPL and the 1077 has handled it all without the slightest hint of clipping or other signs of distress. My speakers, Klipsch RF 7s, are super efficient at 102 dbw, but that is balanced off by the fact that I have an enormous room to fill. It’s over 7000 cu ft.

Although they are very efficient, the RF7s are a somewhat difficult load since they have an impedance dip to 2.8 ohms at low frequencies. This will quickly show the deficiencies of any amp, and multi-channel receiver’s with their puny excuses for onboard amplifiers simply do a terrible job with the 7s. The 1077s ability to "track" the impedance curve of a speaker allows it to transfer max power even at surprisingly low impedances. Only "bigger" amps (200 wpc and up) have achieved this sound with my RF7s. The 1077 does appear to sound like a "bigger" amp than my 200 wpc 1080 does, and at least as big as the 250 wpc A21.

Soundstage: My initial apparent dissapointment with the amp centered around it’s seemingly narrow and shallow soundstage. On day 2 I realized that this dummy, in his rush to get the amp up and running had reversed the left and right channels. No wonder everything sounded so weird. I can now report the following. The soundstage of the 1077 in 2 channel mode is at least as wide as the 1080, however, it does lack some of that amps depth. Most of the 1077s soundstage is forward of the speakers so it tends to project instruments out into the room. The musicians seem to be out in the room with you rather than being in front of you on a stage. I was able to moderate this a bit by adjusting the separation width and tow-in of my speakers. It seems that the tonal balance differences from the 1080 create new and different room reactions. I am growing fond of this effect for 2 channel, however, in theater mode the amp projects the center channel out into the room and it no longer anchors dialog to the screen as well as the 1075 does. The overall sound is very reminiscent of the 1075 in combination with the RSP 1066 I used to own.

The amp is exceedingly linear. It performs as well at low volumes as it does at high SPL. This has been a characteristic of Rotel amps for as long as I’ve owned them, and it’s a characteristic I enjoy. When I auditioned the Halo A21 for three weeks one of the things that distressed me the most about that amp was the fact that it performed well at high SPL and had a good, if not great top end and a huge soundstage. But it fell apart completely when turned down. The Krell Showcase held up well under similar conditions. It never lost it.

I’ve decided that the 1077 is a keeper!

[Andrew M Ward]

I think using a pre-engineered piece of technology like the Icepower module isn't any different than purchasing a cpu from Crystal for the 1068 and 1098, or Burr Brown DACs or remote controls made by Winamp. Without these sorces Rotel probably could never produce what it does. Nor could any other manufacturer for that matter.

Yes,
This is correct.
Nobody makes their own DSP board (For example) and the implementation is always unique depending on the "ultimate execution" of "said board"

Hence, Rotel processing might feel or sound different than Parasound, though they might share a board or two in the ultimate scheme.

these are the reasons why we all hire "engineers" and implement different product strategies.

[Andrew M Ward]

The 1077 is definitely a Rotel in sound signature, clean, clear and musical.

I wouldn’t have expected an amp with a FTC rating of only 100 wpc to be so powerful. I think this need breed of amps will have to come along with a new way of defining amplifier power. On day 3 I cranked up the 1077 for a rendition of the "Stars and Stripes" played by the Boston Pops to a level that could be heard by just about the entire neighborhood. I didn't experience any "compression" of the sound as I would expect from an amp sporting only 100wpc . I’ve played some heavy material since at “insane” SPL and the 1077 has handled it all without the slightest hint of clipping or other signs of distress. My speakers, Klipsch RF 7s, are super efficient at 102 dbw, but that is balanced off by the fact that I have an enormous room to fill. It’s over 7000 cu ft.
The 1077s ability to "track" the impedance curve of a speaker allows it to transfer max power even at surprisingly low impedances. Only "bigger" amps (200 wpc and up) have achieved this sound with my RF7s. The 1077 does appear to sound like a "bigger" amp than my 200 wpc 1080 does, and at least as big as the 250 wpc A21.

The amp is exceedingly linear. It performs as well at low volumes as it does at high SPL. This has been a characteristic of Rotel amps for as long as I’ve owned them, and it’s a characteristic I enjoy. never lost it.

I’ve decided that the 1077 is a keeper!

If I may I will address each point from above:
Other than the ICEpower Mod, as you have observed, this is a Rotel Amplifier, no small amount of effort has gone into this project. The outside pressure and the intense observation of our efforts have been long in production and the coming to fruition is no "Ho-Hum" project completion note. This is a big deal, and a whole bunch of eggs are in this technological basket. (So to speak)

100 watts: Yes this rating has tended to confuse people (Including me) I've been trying to make the thing clip for two weeks and can't do it. Why? Because all the traditional concepts related to clipping are about current delivery. Well... This present design philosophy has no relation to standard clipping notions. In other words turning it up, does not effect the amplifies ability to drive the speaker, in fact it improves it.

YES! the more you screw with the volume (and go up) it simply adds to the amplifiers power rating, all the rules have changed. As the speaker impedances move around this amplifier design maximizes that lack of resistance to increase output.

Again: I can't make it clip!!!! (And I've conceived of all measures of insanity to do so)

Linear: Yes Flat and true is the nature of a well designed front end. This is the magic of Rotel engineering on this piece, enjoy that, not all ICEpower mods hit the market the same way. (Sound-wise that is)

Keeper!
Yes the efforts put forth to gain high-end listeners faith has been no small effort in final execution, here's hoping you enjoy.

This might come across as pompous but please save your criticism of this praise until after you’ve at least listened to a 1077…
Just more 2 cents
Andrew M ward



$2500 never sounded so good

[DrJRapp]

$2500 never sounded so good

Neither has Rotel IMHO...that's why the title!

[Leef DaLucky]

Jerry,
a quick question.
Aside of the obvious Ti/Icepower differences, how close would you say the pannie XR series comes to the 1077?
Just curious.

Mikey

[DrJRapp]

Jerry,
a quick question.
Aside of the obvious Ti/Icepower differences, how close would you say the pannie XR series comes to the 1077?
Just curious.

Mikey

$250 receiver playing into $450 worth of speakers with a $59 DVD player as sorce Vs. $5500 worth of processor and amp playing into $4900 worth of speakers and a $1000 DVD player + $2000 CD player as a source. Impossible to say, different setup, different speakers, different room, different source ;different everything.

[RebelMan]

$250 receiver playing into $450 worth of speakers with a $59 DVD player as sorce Vs. $5500 worth of processor and amp playing into $4900 worth of speakers and a $1000 DVD player + $2000 CD player as a source. Impossible to say, different setup, different speakers, different room, different source ;different everything.

I think that would make for a very interesting comparison. Swap out the variables (receiver and pre/pow amplifiers) and keep the constants (source and speakers). Might be more trouble than it is worth but the outcome might be very telling.

[DrJRapp]

I think that would make for a very interesting comparison. Swap out the variables (receiver and pre/pow amplifiers) and keep the constants (source and speakers). Might be more trouble than it is worth but the outcome might be very telling.

That's something for someone with way too much time on his hands...not this Dude!

Seriously, just the wiring changes needed would take hours. If you'd ever seen the connections on the back of the Panasonic you'd know why!

[markmaple]

C'mon Jerry. Take one for the team!

Jerry, you should post your RMB-1077 review on the Klipsch forum.

[Blazar]

Isn't a PSAudio GCC-100 or GCC-250 closer to the concept of "straight wire with gain mentioned above"?

This is another device that also uses icepower modules with the addition of modulating volume with a gain control instead of an attenuator.

I've been following both the rotel and the GCA-MC from ps audio with interest. the rotel is certainly cheaper for more channels. I have considered using a cheaper amp like the rotel for 5 channels and a 2 channel GCC-250 amp for my mains.

THis way I can put the most money into powering my mains which are B&W 802 diamonds that I am getting. I'm far less critical of surround channels.

All in all I think the GCC-250 has the opportunity to be the best in class of this type of product because of their gain control. I look forward to the stereophile reviews since the published spec graphs on psaudio's website show fantastic performance.

They are planning to release a GCC-MC which is a 7 channel unit with gain control as well. Currently the GCA-MC is like the rotel unit, just far more expensive. This makes me wonder if the psaudio pricetag for the multichannel unit is FAR too high, making rotel the price winner.

[Leef DaLucky]

*laughs*
Ya Jerry it was an unusally cruel request.
I've "retooled" the ends on my speaker cables more times than i care to count (especially with the pannie). One of the reasons i wanna upgrade to the XR55 is the newer banana friendly binding posts.
I was just curious.
I figure you'd see more similarities, than differences.
Its the extra power i'm curious about.
As you know, these pannie amps were measured just a little above 80w/channel continuous.
That to me, is alright.
I'd imagine that extra bit of power puts the 1077 in another league though.
it's weird how these new digitals are rated with regards to spec's. Most seem to advertise low wattages but realistically put out enough horsepower to blow walls off rooms.
Is a 2 channel experiment possible?
(not sure if the xr25 has good L/R bindings)

cheers, and thanks for the info so far.
Good purchase!

mikey

[DrJRapp]

*laughs*

Is a 2 channel experiment possible?
(not sure if the xr25 has good L/R bindings)


mikey

No, I'm not pullin apart any more racks. rying to wire the back of the Panny while using a dentists mirror to seethe back is difficult enough to do once, neversay twice!

OBTW, the 1077 is no joy to wire either. The change orientation of the speaker outputs + or - at a whim, rather than keep it uniform across the back.

[Blazar]

Some of the distortion graphs show that some of these amps can do more than the stated wattage in output but distortion starts to rise significantly beyond the stated wattage rating.

Look at the graphs for the psaudio products at psaudio.com for an idea.

I would imagine the 1077 behaves in much the same way.

[RebelMan]

Some of the distortion graphs show that some of these amps can do more than the stated wattage in output but distortion starts to rise significantly beyond the stated wattage rating.

Look at the graphs for the psaudio products at psaudio.com for an idea.

I would imagine the 1077 behaves in much the same way.

Precisely why I think the 1092 will pick up where the 1077 (and whatever may come in between) leaves off.

[Gump]

Would it be possible or even worthwhile to consider bi-amping or bridging the front main speakers to get more power to them? I read a review of the Bel Canto evo6 amp and the reviewer said the amp sound great with normal set-up but then raved about the improvement after bridging the mains. Just curious what the 1077 might sound like doing the same.

[Aussie Geoff]

Gump,

The Bel Canto is specially set-up for bridging, with the channels then operaitng out of phase with each other in a push / pull fashion to get lower distortion and tigher cleaner sound. They are audibly much better bridged than not (unlike normal linear amplifiers which are normally not quite as clean when bridged....)

However that is a special feature of the Bel Canto which was designed into it to deal with the power limitation of the TriPath chip... The Rotel uses different technology and is not built to be bridged as far as I know....

If you want more power - wait and get the RB-1091 or 1092...

Geoff

[Nolan B]

This may be a dumb question, but if someone has speakers rated at 100Watts should they be concerne with blowing them with an amp like this? If it seems like its more more then 100wpc does that mean its becuase it is?

The speakers im using aren't HUGE, but im thinking of getting this amp.

[Aussie Geoff]

Vancouver,

A good question... In fact unless you play very deep loud bass (the type you get from movies) and crazy volumes - you are less likely to blow the speakers with a more powerful amplifier, since what normally damages speakers is the amplifier clipping - creating lots of high frequency energy and damaging the tweeter or crossover....

Seconly - the RMB-1077 is not actually much more powerful than any other good 100W amp - it just sounds that way because it can accurtely follow the speakers impedence swings..

Buy with confidence...

Geoff