Is it just me or are B&W in seriously need of a new 7 series? with the new price jump of the new 800 series, there is just a to big of a price different from the CM9 to the new Diamond 804.IMO the new 800 series is lacking a centerspeaker that goes with the 804,like the old htm 803. They have done the same mistake this time as they did in the old 7 series with no center to match the 703.
B&W, please give us a new 7 series!
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I have to agree with you. It is going to be a while before I can step into the 800 series. Wife, 2 kids, house, cars, and college loans have sucked out most of my money. The old 703 would have fit nicely in my budget. I guess I will have to settle for now.....
Although I have to say the CM9 and 683 are very nice........One of them will be mine very soon...Ryan
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Yep I totally agree. In my opinion the CM9's are the best bang for the buck in the line up currently. They have better bass and more detail than my old Nautilus 804's did. The top end wasn't quite as smooth as the 804's but it excels in all other areas..dan87951
audio guru- Bottom
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Originally posted by ryan.devryI have to agree with you. It is going to be a while before I can step into the 800 series. Wife, 2 kids, house, cars, and college loans have sucked out most of my money. The old 703 would have fit nicely in my budget. I guess I will have to settle for now.....
Although I have to say the CM9 and 683 are very nice........One of them will be mine very soon...- Bottom
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Yeah I love the 703s..........The cabinets alone are little more pleasing to the eyes. It has been a few years since I have enjoyed the pleasure of listen to 703s. And now it will be a little difficult for a side by side comaprison.Ryan
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Originally posted by ryan.devryYeah I love the 703s..........The cabinets alone are little more pleasing to the eyes. It has been a few years since I have enjoyed the pleasure of listen to 703s. And now it will be a little difficult for a side by side comaprison.
It sure looks like B&W are poised for something in between the CM and 800 series, but I guess we wait and see.- Bottom
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I expect that something will happen to address the pricing gap, my guess is that they'll base the new line on the existing 805S, 804/803S but offer them in more cost effective cabinets. Either that, or they bump up the prices on their lower end stuff to close the gap.- Bottom
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They would have to have some sort of justification to raise the prices of the lower gear....idk...some sort of trickle down effect......but that stuff is made in china so it still should be cost effective........Ryan
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Originally posted by ryan.devryThey would have to have some sort of justification to raise the prices of the lower gear....idk...some sort of trickle down effect......but that stuff is made in china so it still should be cost effective........- Bottom
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Originally posted by joetamaI wouldn't expect a 700 Series... I honestly have a taste that if you can't afford the 800 Series B&W doesn't care, buy a Zeppelin.
Does there need to be another series?? The 600's start at <$500 and go to about $1500. The CM's start at ~$1000 and go to ~$3500. The 800's start now at ~$5000 and go up from there...
It doesn't make sense for the 805 to overlap in price with another lesser floor standing speaker IMO..Main System:
B&W 801D
Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
Oppo BDP-105
Squeezebox Touch
Second System:
B&W CM7
Emotiva UMC-1
Emotiva UPA-2
Oppo BDP-83SE
Grant Fidelity DAC-09
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I think they need something else in between the CM Series and the 800 Series. To go from $3000.00 for a pair of CM9s to $7500.00 for a pair of 804Ds is a big jump. Same thing from a pair of CM5s at $1500.00 to $5000.00 for a pair of 805Ds. I don't know if the answer is a new series or expansion of current ones, but those are big gaps. I don't think it makes sense to expand the CM Series and the 800 Series isn't going to reach down to you would have to think it would be something new.
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Originally posted by stuofsci02As indicated by the 600 series, CM series?
Does there need to be another series?? The 600's start at <$500 and go to about $1500. The CM's start at ~$1000 and go to ~$3500. The 800's start now at ~$5000 and go up from there...
It doesn't make sense for the 805 to overlap in price with another lesser floor standing speaker IMO..
So now you have a mass market box with a world of competition, a glossy finish box that has been done and done over again and again, or a 'diamond' only line out of the reach of 99% of people.
B&W used to have a line for just about everyone, but it seems that sound quality isn't as important as looking pretty and being manufactured cheaply. It seems the only reason to keep the 800 Diamond series is to say "we build the best loudspeaker in the world" which unless large things were changed really isn't a true statement.
Maybe it is me that has changed but listening to CM Series and 600S4 really just isn't as exciting as the first time I listened to B&W. When listening to the 703 for its price it stood out as a clear winner. Clarity, depth, imaging, etc etc were fantastic. The CM series and 600S4 are also pretty fantastic but when comparing them to even Focal (which I used to find rather awkward in balance) there isn't anything that screams that the B&W is awesome. They are just another glossy box now. Which there is a market for, but it still seems like they are being run as a Chevy of speakers not a BMW.
All this rambling aside, it seems they should have classes of decent(600), good(CM), better(700), best (800 Diamond), ridiculous(Nautilus).
Meh, but what do I know.-Joe- Bottom
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Originally posted by joetamaThe 600 series really isn't anything special. They do sound decent but as far as I can see there were no new R&D, ideas, or innovations over the 600 Series 3 except the FST mid in the top of the line 600. (There are other speakers in the same price range that sound as good if not better.) They are also made over seas which really doesn't matter but does take away of the prestige of having a British made speaker. The CM series as far as I can tell is just a 600 Series but upgraded (driver and crossover?). The 700 Series had tweeter on top, unique construction, and other things that made it different than just another box speaker.
So now you have a mass market box with a world of competition, a glossy finish box that has been done and done over again and again, or a 'diamond' only line out of the reach of 99% of people.
B&W used to have a line for just about everyone, but it seems that sound quality isn't as important as looking pretty and being manufactured cheaply. It seems the only reason to keep the 800 Diamond series is to say "we build the best loudspeaker in the world" which unless large things were changed really isn't a true statement.
Maybe it is me that has changed but listening to CM Series and 600S4 really just isn't as exciting as the first time I listened to B&W. When listening to the 703 for its price it stood out as a clear winner. Clarity, depth, imaging, etc etc were fantastic. The CM series and 600S4 are also pretty fantastic but when comparing them to even Focal (which I used to find rather awkward in balance) there isn't anything that screams that the B&W is awesome. They are just another glossy box now. Which there is a market for, but it still seems like they are being run as a Chevy of speakers not a BMW.
All this rambling aside, it seems they should have classes of decent(600), good(CM), better(700), best (800 Diamond), ridiculous(Nautilus).
Meh, but what do I know.
Having owned almost all of the 600 S3 series except 604, and having listened to family member older 600 series speaker I believe the newer 600 line is better sounding. To me that means there is improvement.
I guess time will tell.. You've indicated that the 700 series for the price was the winner.. Maybe you are right, but I was under the impression that the 700 series was the black sheep. Didn't sell very well and didn't have the trademark neutral B&W sound..Main System:
B&W 801D
Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
Oppo BDP-105
Squeezebox Touch
Second System:
B&W CM7
Emotiva UMC-1
Emotiva UPA-2
Oppo BDP-83SE
Grant Fidelity DAC-09
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I think the 600 series is one of the best bang-for-the-buck speaker lines out there, not just within the B&W family. For an affordable, but excellent sounding main set-up, or perhaps for a secondary room, it's really tough to beat.
The 700 series, on the other hand, didn't appeal as much to me. It wasn't marketed as "affordable", per se, but it also didn't have the dramatic hi-fi appeal as the 800 series. In a way, it was in no-man's land. I think the CM line fits in nicely as a very good speaker line that doesn't completely break the bank.
If they were to launch a new 700 series, I think B&W would need to improve the performance substantially. Not saying the 700 series was a bad speaker by any means, but I think it would need to blow the CM line out of the water and be priced well under the 800 Diamond series for it to be attractive.- Bottom
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Say what you will, but when I bought my 703s in 2006 they blew me away AND I could afford them... no plans to upgrade them any time soon!
I've recently purchased a pair of CM-4 speakers for the living room and they just don't have the openness the 703s exhibit, likely due to lack of the free mounted tweeter.
To each their own- Bottom
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All this rambling aside, it seems they should have classes of decent(600), good(CM), better(700), best (800 Diamond), ridiculous(Nautilus).
Meh, but what do I know.[/QUOTE]
Logic I can agree with.A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.- Bottom
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Originally posted by bniemanSay what you will, but when I bought my 703s in 2006 they blew me away AND I could afford them... no plans to upgrade them any time soon!
I've recently purchased a pair of CM-4 speakers for the living room and they just don't have the openness the 703s exhibit, likely due to lack of the free mounted tweeter.
To each their own
Not sure it's fair to compare the 703 to the old CM4, which was about half the price! :B But I know what you mean, the 703s do have an openness that I think even the current CM9s fail to match.- Bottom
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703s are great...better than anything else below the 800 series imo...but comparing them to anything in the 600 or cm serious is a little crazy. The only thing close is the cm9 and they are still completely diff designs....
anyway the 700s had beautiful cabinets...great technology......and great performance.......it is a series I think all of us will miss and for those who have them ENJOYRyan
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As much as I love my 703’s, the line is dead. It’s time for a new 700 series and the technology is already here. The removal of the 800s series leaves the perfect trickle-down technology. The difference between the 703 and 804s was quite substantial and I can’t believe that B&W wouldn’t use this for a new 700(s?) series. I’m hoping to see a new (and beautiful) cabinet, re-worked crossover, carry over other components, and a series, at least equal to the previous 800s series. The gap is obvious, both in cost and quality. I’m sure the guys at B&W see this, or probably planned it. Don’t think of the old 700 series when imagining a NEW 700s series.Lee J
Denon 4311ci; Rotel RB-1080; OPPO BDP-83 Universal Disk/Media Player
B&W 703 mains; B&W HTM2 Center; B&W CDM SNT-Surr; B&W CDM1nt-back; Pair of Rythmik F15 Subs- Bottom
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I'm quite sure that if B&W decide not to fill in the gap alot of people will buy elsewhere.
I can't imagine they aren't aware of the potential market they will lose out on given their apparently chosen path.A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.- Bottom
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Just buy the 800 series and be done with it, otherwise you spent so much time wasting on thinking if you should upgrade, doing an upgrade to the next level, go straight to the top!SoundEngine355
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[Music] B&W 800D | Classe CDP202 +M400s | Velodyne DD15- Bottom
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Originally posted by SoundEngine355Just buy the 800 series and be done with it, otherwise you spent so much time wasting on thinking if you should upgrade, doing an upgrade to the next level, go straight to the top!
Consequently, the 700 Series used to fill this vast chasm.-Joe- Bottom
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I think it's only a matter of time when B&W will release the NEW 700 series. B&W has gone through a lot of things lately, they are transforming from a high end speaker company to consumer high end audio company. They first build a new factory in China for consumer level products. then move the factory from Danmark to UK for high end products. at the same time, b&w is making headphone, PC speaker, and iPod speakers.
I guess the next 700 series will look like the current XT series but with wood veneer. OR, they will update the XT series with bigger cabnet. the current slim down case just can't produce enough sound in a decent size room.
same thing for "lifestyle" series. i think it's logical for b&w to cut down some of the products. the current offering is just confusing.- Bottom
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Originally posted by joetamaAs much as that sounds like a good idea there is a major cash wall between the CM & 800 Diamond series...
Consequently, the 700 Series used to fill this vast chasm.- Bottom
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Originally posted by PavelLCMs use near identical drivers to the 800 series (FST, some Mundorf capacitors ? etc but without the fancy cabinets) Why not just pay double MSRP for the CM ceries? lol :lol: or should B&W raise MSRP to make CMs look more "high-endish "?
If I was a betting man I'd put money on a 800 Series FST not being even close to a CM FST driver in terms of build quality and specs. What is different? I'll let people smarter than myself discuss that, but what I can say is 800D/Diamond FST drivers can't be the same as 700/CM/600S4 FST drivers. If it is the 800D/Diamond series just became a HUGE ripoff.
I really don't care what a speaker looks like. I care what it sounds like. Being I haven't heard the 800 Diamond series I am assuming it sounds better (even marginally) than the 800D Series, which I have heard. I've also heard the CM series and there is a major difference between the lines. Which needs to be seriously filled since there will not be any more none diamond 800 series anymore. Otherwise people will be looking at Thiel, Dali, Focal, PMC, and the thousands of other speakers that fill this void.
If we look at money the old 703 sold for ~$1,650 per speaker, the old 804S was ~$2,250 per speaker, the current CM9 ~$1,500 per speaker, and the current 804D ~$4,650. So if we look at this the 703 and the 804 were $1,200 per pair difference. Now the CM (which everyone thinks is the new 700) the difference is about $6,300 difference per pair.
Seems a bit nutty without something to fill in yea? Or am I still missing something? It seems like that $6,300 void needs to be filled maybe at the $3,000 level. It also needs to be a new 700 Series with flash but yet keeps roots in the pedigree of the 700 Series. A re-branded 804S just won't do.-Joe- Bottom
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Originally posted by PavelLCMs use near identical drivers to the 800 series (FST, some Mundorf capacitors ? etc but without the fancy cabinets) Why not just pay double MSRP for the CM ceries? lol :lol: or should B&W raise MSRP to make CMs look more "high-endish "?
Cabinets are the most expensive parts of speaker building. drivers are cheap in comparison. You can check out some of the best drivers from Scan Speak, even the most expensive one cost only few hundred dollars or so. (the one similier used on Wilson Audio speakers)- Bottom
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Originally posted by AntusCM use Mundorf Spreme and 800 series use silver/gold. i think there are some difference between those two.
Cabinets are the most expensive parts of speaker building. drivers are cheap in comparison. You can check out some of the best drivers from Scan Speak, even the most expensive one cost only few hundred dollars or so. (the one similier used on Wilson Audio speakers)
Really I look at commercial speakers as you are paying a premium for the science put into the design. Woods is cheap, drivers aren't bad, crossover parts pretty cheap. There is a higher cost in putting them all together. But the real cost is in the time to design and testing for everything to work great together. I don't have the time, knowledge, or equipment to design a speaker on the same level as a company such as B&W. For me the R&D costs would be too high since I'm only building one pair, for them they are building thousands of pairs.
However, if you love DIY, science, mathematics, and all that good stuff then have at it. I know with my knowledge level I can build a decent 2-way cheap box. But, if it came to something like my 703 or 800D no way.-Joe- Bottom
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Originally posted by AntusCM use Mundorf Spreme and 800 series use silver/gold. i think there are some difference between those two.
Cabinets are the most expensive parts of speaker building. drivers are cheap in comparison. You can check out some of the best drivers from Scan Speak, even the most expensive one cost only few hundred dollars or so. (the one similier used on Wilson Audio speakers)- Bottom
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I would prefer B&W made the 700 series the old 800 Standard line 803S, 804S, and 805S. These speakers sound phenominal for there price points and offered good value. The 803S is still one of my all time favorites for the money. Well balanced and great detail! Wish I would have never sold mine...dan87951
audio guru- Bottom
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Originally posted by PavelLCMs have somwhat simpler X-overs and near identical to 700 series drivers - I see no reason why they should sound worse.
... again my point was that the drivers are nearly identical sans the fancy cabinet - the cabinet makes the major difference in SQ.
I attribute that to the tweeter on top, the non-parallel cabinet sides and the curved cabinet. In actual fact the CM series does have a better tweeter and the crossovers are arguably better, too. But, the cabinet makes such a huge difference that to me, the 703 in particular did things that brought it much closer to the 804 than the CM series is able to achieve.- Bottom
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I have a feeling that re-designed versions of the 800 "S" series will show up sooner or later as the 700 series. This makes the most sense and would be the best use of the "trickle-down" technology that B&W is such a fervent supporter of. I expect the enclosures would be be different, though, to draw distinction from the current 800 series, and probably the timbre will be altered as well. When this happens, the 700 series could very well be the sweet spot in the B&W line. :T- Bottom
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Originally posted by KyaDawnI have a feeling that re-designed versions of the 800 "S" series will show up sooner or later as the 700 series. This makes the most sense and would be the best use of the "trickle-down" technology that B&W is such a fervent supporter of. I expect the enclosures would be be different, though, to draw distinction from the current 800 series, and probably the timbre will be altered as well. When this happens, the 700 series could very well be the sweet spot in the B&W line. :T
I think that would be awesome, and a good move on B&W's part.- Bottom
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Originally posted by KyaDawnI have a feeling that re-designed versions of the 800 "S" series will show up sooner or later as the 700 series. This makes the most sense and would be the best use of the "trickle-down" technology that B&W is such a fervent supporter of. I expect the enclosures would be be different, though, to draw distinction from the current 800 series, and probably the timbre will be altered as well. When this happens, the 700 series could very well be the sweet spot in the B&W line. :T
The previous 700 series wasn't a bad line at all, but, there were numerous threads on on this forum advising buyers to skip over the 700 series altogether for the 800"S" line, because it was so close in comparison that you got better for a little more money. Also the 700 series did not offer a matching center for the 703 but the 803"S" did, and there was no indication B&W would ever offer one.
Being one that has climbed the B&W scale from 600's to 700's to now 800"S" series, I will be very disappointed if they don't match the new 700 series to exactly the same build and sound if not better than the outgoing 800"S" series. Reason being is that many people paid good money for the 800"S" line and not everyone was fortunate enough to buy the whole system all at once. Many of us piece our speaker packages together one at a time and upgrade as funds permit.
The CM series pricing is so close to that of the old 700 series that it only makes sense to fill in the gap between the CM and 800 Diamond Series with a new 700 series at the outgoing 800"S" series prices.
I think B&W owes it to their consumers that have purchased the now obsolete 800"S" series to make a new 700 series equal to or better. Giving us the option to continue to build our systems based on the sound quality of the 800"S" line.- Bottom
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Originally posted by joetamaAll this rambling aside, it seems they should have classes of decent(600), good(CM), better(700), best (800 Diamond), ridiculous(Nautilus)."Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."- Bottom
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B&W has introduced a lot of new products recently (new 800s, new custom installation speakers, headphones, multi-media speaker) and that has taxed the R&D department. The old adage about "Good things come to those that wait" is appropriate here. I would expect to hear something late summer 2010.- Bottom
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Originally posted by RebelManI'd rather they just settle on a consistent naming convention. 600's 700's and 800's or CI's, CM's and CT's. Mixing different class names together seems weird to me.-Joe- Bottom
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Originally posted by hifiguymiThe 600 Series, CM Series and in-wall product are made in China. The 800 Series, XT Series, and the CT800 Series are built in England. I'm not sure where the CT700 Series are built though.
Eric- Bottom
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All this rambling aside, it seems they should have classes of decent(600), good(CM), better(700), best (800 Diamond), ridiculous(Nautilus).
Meh, but what do I know.[/QUOTE]
So where do you put the XT series?- Bottom
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