Rotel RSP-1066 and SACD/DVD-A playback

[Ben]

1066 owners – I ‘m asking for advice! I’ve had an RSP 1066 on order since May, when the initial shipment to Australia sold out.

Now ‘my’ unit is due to arrive in Oz in just a week – and Rotel still has not corrected the bass management issues in the firmware.

I want to play SACD and DVD-A, and have a Marantz DV-8300 waiting to be delivered. I will also get an Outlaw ICBM if I find it’s needed.

I want to use my sub when playing these formats. The snag is the Rotel.

I understand that on CD replay, I can avoid the ‘doubled-bass’ issue by using the digital connection and setting all speakers to SMALL. I think I can live with that (but I shouldn’t have to!)

With SACD and DVD-A playback, though, there seems to be no escape. All six analogue inputs fixed full range, with bass below 120 Hz, going to both the main speakers and the sub …

To those who have SACD and/or DVD-A players and have themselves experienced playback through the 1066 – how bad does the ‘doubled-bass’ effect sound? Is the bass over-emphasised, to the point of sounding bloated? Would turning the sub down, e.g. through its remote, actually make recordings enjoyable, or just tolerable?

Andrew’s posts after his talks with Rotel don’t seem to indicate whether Rotel consider it is feasible to fix the firmware for folks who want to enjoy SACD and DVD-A; and if it’s feasible, whether they intend to fix it.

If they can express no clear intention to fix it, should I cancel the 1066 and start looking for a product that has been designed correctly?

Any advice based on actual experience of the ‘doubled-bass’ with these formats would be very welcome. By the way, I’m thousands of miles from the dealer.

On order:
Marantz DV-8300, Rotel RSP-1066, Rotel RMB-1095, Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home mains (claimed down to 35 Hz), SF Solo centre, SF Wall surrounds (claimed down to 60 Hz), Velodyne HGS-15 sub.




Ben

[Andrew Pratt]

If they can express no clear intention to fix it, should I cancel the 1066 and start looking for a product that has been designed correctly?

I'm not so sure the Rotel isn't designed correctly...since there are no standards in place for 5.1 inputs for DVD-A and SACD Rotel went the path of providing no bass management on those inputs leaving the manufactures to provide it in the players. Now the double bass is a problem but when they fix the sub issue so its not always set to Max it should work properly. You could always run your mains though the sub and tell both the Rotel and the player that you don't have a sub which should route all the base to the mains where you'll let the sub take over.

[Dre J]

I've written a series of Bass management workarounds that should be helpful for you. The links are in the same thread that you used to retrieve my comments/observations about the RSP-1066 in my Bass Management Report.

The first post has links to specific workarounds. They are worth the read in order to get a better understanding of what is going on. They will also help you find a solution while we wait on Rotel's fix.

Lowering the bass level for the inputs from the subwoofer level may be OK for you but it's not the correct fix. Bass lowered by 10 dB is still extra bass, IMO. Hopefully one of the solutions are feasible for you.

Hope this helps
Dre

Rotel RSP-1066 Bass Management Report




My little corner of the world

"ILL-PLEX 007.1"

[Danbry39]

I understand that on CD replay, I can avoid the ‘doubled-bass’ issue by using the digital connection and setting all speakers to SMALL. I think I can live with that (but I shouldn’t have to!)

Can someone enlighten me on this. If I assign a coax from the CD player to the 1066, will I avoid the double bass? I assume I would still need to have the regular RCA connects for the left and right channels hooked up, but I'm confused as to why a digital feed would work and an analog only wouldn't. Then again, I'm no genius at this.




Keith

[JKohn]

I'm not so sure the Rotel isn't designed correctly...since there are no standards in place for 5.1 inputs for DVD-A and SACD Rotel went the path of providing no bass management on those inputs leaving the manufactures to provide it in the players.

Well, that's not really true, they provide half-assed bass management that cannot be defeated. Basically, anybody with tower speakers is going to have noticeable double-bass that you can't get around.

Now the double bass is a problem but when they fix the sub issue so its not always set to Max it should work properly.

Actually, those are two separate issues, and I don't think that fixing the Sub=Yes bug will change the behavior of the 6.1 inputs. I have a feeling the double bass on the 6.1 inputs is something that cannot be corrected in software.




Jeff Kohn

http://home.houston.rr.com/jeffkohn

[1CAMP]

In my circumstance, I have found the perfect solution to the bass problem. I'm running 2 SVS subs powered by an amp. I just don't turn the sub amp on. My RF7s handle the bass just fine.

[JKohn]

In my circumstance, I have found the perfect solution to the bass problem. I'm running 2 SVS subs powered by an amp. I just don't turn the sub amp on. My RF7s handle the bass just fine.

Unless you have Sub=No in the 1066 setup and LFE is being redirected to the mains, this wouldn't work for multi-channel audio because you'd be completely missing the LFE channel.




Jeff Kohn

http://home.houston.rr.com/jeffkohn

[Arnold van Oostrum]

I'm not so sure the Rotel isn't designed correctly...since there are no standards in place for 5.1 inputs for DVD-A and SACD Rotel went the path of providing no bass management on those inputs leaving the manufactures to provide it in the players.

For what I know Rotel added a bass management circuit for multi input in the latest new series (with the changed firmware versions).

[Ben]

Thanks. I especially appreciate Geoff’s comment, as he addresses my concern, as indicated in my post: the doubled-bass in the 5.1 analogue inputs. I wish Rotel would issue a clear statement on whether it is feasible to fix it, and if so, whether they intend to fix it on the 1066, or defer a fix until the next model.

Back to my concern – what about the sound quality as is? Geoff uses an HTPC as source. Would anyone who has an SACD or DVD-A player with a 1066 care to comment on the sound quality through the unit as it is? Geoff’s surmise is that the emphasis on the bass is likely to be “noticeable”.

The issue for me is: is the degradation of the sound such that it becomes hard for RSP-1066 owners to enjoy their SACD or DVD-A recordings, so that they tend to no longer play them?
Or do they find that by turning down the sub, such recordings can be made to sound quite good, though obviously still degraded to some extent ? Or, do they find they get the least problematical result by turning the sub right off ?

I know this is very subjective, but I would really value any comments.




Ben

[hanser]

a Suggestion:
I do not know the Marantz DVD player you intend to get, but I would try to get a player with internal bass management like the new Pioneer Multi-format-players. Then do the bass management internally, so you have no bass in the mains that can be doubled by the Rotel. If the crossover in the player is lower that in the Rotel, you can adjust the internal filter in the sub to this lower frequency to avoid bass doubling in the overlapping area.
Anyway, this is what I intend to do.

Hartwig

P.S. If you have large mains there may be an alternative: tell the player you have no sub, so it will put the .1 channel on the mains. Then simply switch off the sub when using the multi input on the Rotel.

[LEVESQUE]

I'm using a Denon DVD-3800 for DVD-audio, and this player got BM, with a fix cross-over at 80. I got over 20 DVD-Audio, and they are all incredible with the RSP-1066, except maybe Emerson Lake & Palmer that got overwhelming bass, and shaking the walls.

I'm using Paradigm Studio-40 for main, so all speakers are set to small. I'm rediscovering all my DVD-Audio with the Rotel.