TAG AV32R-EX First Impressions

[RickS]

This is a short note on my thought's on the new pre/pro.


I proceeded to disconnect the pre-outs from the Denon 5800 and hook them up to the Tag AV32R-EX
which goes to a Cinepro 3K6II amp. Also, the digital(tos)link from the Sony DVP7700 to the Tag. I left in the movie just to do the setup menu which is the best I've ever seen in any component that I've owned. It took about 10-15 minutes to complete.

I put in one of my music disks and set the Tag to Direct + Sub which is exactly how I run the 5800 pure direct with sub (2-SVS 20-39's) on. I sat there listening and my first thought or sound that I noticed is that the TAG is very laid back type of sound.......well here I go trying to decribe sound is one of the hardest things I find. The Denon 5800 you get the feeling that singer is up on stage 3ft above the listening area between the speakers. The Tag is the type of sound that puts the singer 10ft back or that's what it sounds like and does not seem to place the vocal as positively as the Denon. The most noticable change from the 5800 to the Tag is that the Tag gives you a feeling of being surrounded by the vocals from the sound stage.......I had to get up at one point and put my ear against the surround speaker.

It was like listening to it with surround mode on but, it wasn't. The high's and mid range are less
aggressive on the Tag and bass impact is also toned down. Do I like that? I'm not sure!!! I'll have to do some more critical listening. All I know is that it had me wondering if I've been listening to my music the right way or not. The Tag produced some small details that I did not noticed before in some very familiar
disks.

This is just a opinion based on three hours of music listening. Tonight I'll try the 6th Day on the Tag and see what type of impression I get from a few movies. I'll be testing with a 5 speaker configuration instead of 7 since I want to make sure the extra amp will be needed.

More to come!!!

Rick




The Home Theater
DVD Collection

[RickS]

Well......just to continue some of the observations of the new TAG AV32R-EX.

I had a chance to watch the 6th Day which is DD sound track. The Tag sounded natural and accurate in its presentation. The surround separation was excellent. I tried some of the other modes including the THX mode but found the best setting to be DD. Having done the calibration procedure with a SPL meter in the Tag setup menu. I found the bass to have quite a bit less impact that I've been used to???? I maybe doing something wrong in the setup but I've tried eveything that I can find. If there are any suggestion's for this please let me know.

I also had a chance to go back and listen to some of my favorite 2-ch disks. I tried a few more things.

Hooked up analog cables from the DVD player to the Tag, this now showed that it was upconverting the analog signal to 96khz this from a 44.1 khz signal when going through the digital cable. This to me didn't sound much different either way, but, if I'm not mistaken the DVD player would be doing a D to A then the Tag would be doing a A to D then a D to A conversion again. The front R/L speakers(Dynaudio Gemini) were set to non bass limited. These speakers will play down to 50Hz.I usally have run all speakers at small setting in the past which is 80Hz cross over.

I'm going to do some more tweaking in the next week. So far I'd say that the AV32R-EX is a very detailed and clean sounding pre/pro. My only concern is the loss of bass "impact"(not volume) from the Denon 5800.

If there are any suggestion please feel free to post here.

Thanks
Rick




The Home Theater
DVD Collection

[Bob Sorel]

Something is not right here, Rick. For those who do not know, I am using the exact same front 3 speakers as Rick, the Dynaudio Gemini's, and the same AV32R-EX, the only significant difference being with our power amps.

I have all of my speakers set to "bass Limited" and I engage the use of the sub in every mode (You deinitely should not have the Dynaudios set to "full range" or there will be a problem with too little or thin bass).

Rick, did you do a complete setup, making sure that you adjusted all input sensitivities and subwoofer levels (don't forget the individual subwoofer offset levels)? Did you limit the bass output? Did you carefully adjust your time alignment? If you used a Rat Shack meter, did you compensate correctly for the uneven frequency response of the cheap microphone that it uses?

These are just some of the ideas that I have thought of as to what your problem might be. I'm going to contact Buzz and have him drop in here to make suggestions also. Like I have said, my old RX-V1 and the Denon were very similar when I compared them, but the TAG was considerably better than either one of the receivers, so I feel pretty confident that some setting or settings are not right on your setup. I'll check back later.

[RickS]

Hi, Bob!

I really feel that there may be some setting that I haven't touched on but, the ones you mention above have been....thanks!! I really want to make sure that I doing everthing right. The TAG is way more flexible than the Denon in its setup procedure.

Buzz has been excellent to deal with and any suggestion's are very welcome.......since I want to set it up the best way possible.

Were do x-over your bass?

Just a note to the other's reading this forum that may not know Bob has been very helpful to me and many others on many forums when it come to music and speaker building. Thanks Bob!


Rick




The Home Theater
DVD Collection

[Buzz Goddard]

If you are comparing the bass with the system now set to full range on the fronts, likely you are getting some cancellation between your sub and your mains. Try setting the mains back to bass limited as they were with the Denon.
I'm with Bob on bass management. Get it out of the mains, which are almost never in the right position to couple with the room. Send all the LF to the sub(s).




Buzz Goddard
<IMG SRC="http://www.tagmclarenaudio.com/icons/logo_inv.gif"

[RickS]

Buzz,

Thanks for the reply!

I have always run my speaker's on small or bass limited setting but, I'm just experimenting with different setting's to try a get some more bass impact that seems to be missing. I'll go through the entire setup process again tonight to see if I've missed something.

Thanks
Rick




The Home Theater
DVD Collection

[Buzz Goddard]

and???




Buzz Goddard
<IMG SRC="http://www.tagmclarenaudio.com/icons/logo_inv.gif"

[RickS]

Buzz,

I had a chance last night to go through the setup last night. My wife came downstairs a 2:00 a.m. and asked if I was going to work in the morning.

I've been in and out of the menu many times already.

I'm really starting to like a few of the features of the Tag and maybe letting my ears adjust to a different type of sound. It is different!!! Maybe the words I should use is very accurate. The difference IMO between the Denon 5800 & Tag AV32R-EX I find still that the vocals are more forward on the 5800 as is the bass impact. This is my perception anyway. The 5800 at higher volumes has a harsher sound, the Tag smoother. But, at low levels the Tag is more laid back.

I am very happy with the DPLII!! It makes 2-ch sources sound very good and has brought a new dimension to our HT. Also, I have had to hookup a separate s-video cable to my projector. I've had problem getting the Tag s-video output to my video processor to sync when working in the OSD menu. I will get a chance to listen to a variety of music and movies over the next week and will continue this thread.

Thanks
Rick




The Home Theater
DVD Collection

[Buzz Goddard]

OK, well keep me aprised.
You are welcome to conact me directly if you want to work through it on the phone, but I am also happy to work with you on here as it may provide some insights to others considering same or doing their own tweaking/troubleshooting...




Buzz Goddard
<IMG SRC="http://www.tagmclarenaudio.com/icons/logo_inv.gif"

[RickS]

Tonight I had a small amount of time to listen to some music. I have "always" listened to music in 2-ch or 2-ch + sub........tonight I tried the DPLII for music and was very surprised at the quality of the sound!!! DPLII has setting's for left and right width control and a "Dim" setting in the + or - direction. While getting a feel for these setting's I was pleasantly surprised for the first time that I can remember I considered using a surround mode for music ..:E.

It is that good!!!! WOW!

Thanks for the offer Buzz!
I would like to give you a call.

Rick




The Home Theater
DVD Collection

[Buzz Goddard]

PLII for music helps remove one of the major technical blockades between you and the music; the two channel restricted pipeline.
It is a shame so many people have formed their opinions on this based on crappy soundfield modes in AV receivers.
With a bit of an open mind, a whole new world of musical immersion is available...




Buzz Goddard
<IMG SRC="http://www.tagmclarenaudio.com/icons/logo_inv.gif"

[Bob Sorel]

Yeah, tell me about it! PL II processing is the greatest advancement since DD 5.1! Now that I have it, I don't know how I lived without it

[Daniel Brecher]

Must get DPL2......Must get DPL2.....Must get DPL2.

Dan (UK)

[P-Dub]

With respect to the DPLII, I've reserved judgement until I've heard it. But from the reports I'm dreading hearing it, as it will become another must have.

I'm speculating that the 'Pro-Logic' has somehow acquired a negative connotation. I think as 'Digital' is the buzz word to have. (no pun intended) But wasn't 'Pro-Logic' the thing to have for the longest time? And from the reports 'Pro-logic 2' is truely a different product. I wonder if it would have helped if Dolby named it something other than Pro-logic 2?




Paul

There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that can't.

[Bob Sorel]

If you want to know more about PL II, then just read this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/003240.html

I gave it a complete review, and there are thoughts and opinions from others as well.

[RickS]

Back Again!!

I had a chance to talk to Buzz from TAG last week regarding some automation functions of the AV32R-EX and equipment that is hooked up to it.
It is nice to have the chance to talk to people with the knowledge and experience of this caliber. I followed some of the suggestions given to me and I couldn't be happier.

I have done much experimenting with bass x-over, time alignment of the bass signal and have moved my speakers around just a little. I now know what Bob is talking about in the detail....it is amazing. Maybe the operator just had to be programmed a little better... I have also found in my system that I like the Direct + Sub mode with the analog signal from the DVD player(Sony DVP7700) upconverted to 96 kHz. I will be getting my cable so I can keep updated on new developments from Tag.

Thanks for your help, Buzz!!!

Rick




The Home Theater
DVD Collection

[Daniel Brecher]

Great news, Rick. Nearly had mine a month and I am STILL playing with it, tweaking the performance here and there, and with the TAG, there seems to be very little one can't tweak!

I have a TAG Cable coming next week, along with a Kenwood RF demod to finally hear Phantom Menace LD on this thing!

Dan (UK)

[Trevor Schell]

Glad you are satisfied with the TAG Rick!,,

Just a question, Since you have had the opportunity to try both DTS-Neo and DPL2, How would they compare. I just love the Neo mode for 2 channel sources such as DSS. Is DPL2 a significant improvement or somewhat similar.

Thanks.




Trevor
My HomeTheater S.E.
Sonically Enhanced
C5

[RickS]

Trevor,

The DPL II is one of the best sound modes for two channel that I've ever listened to. Much better separation and detail.

Rick




The Home Theater
DVD Collection

[RickS]

Well.......I'm still waiting for the cable I ordered with no reply from the dealer. But, after living with the different sound modes of the Tag for music, "only" I feel that the best this processor has to offer is the TM5 mode. It brings the sound stage forward and a very nice ambience to the music through the rear side speakers. IMO,I feel that there is much work to be done on the Direct+Sub mode. Also, knowing there is a download for this mode....this may change, if so I'll let you know.

For movies the DD/DTS/DPLII is I think as good as it gets.

Thanks
Rick




The Home Theater
DVD Collection

[RickS]

Well I should have my Tagtronic cable in a few days. I'm looking forward to the Direct + Sub fix since this is the only area I feel needs work on the new processor. I now listen to music in the TM5 Mode as It brings the soundstage forward, positions the drums correctly, and provides ambience with the rear side surrounds that I was used to.

Rick




The Home Theater
DVD Collection

[RickS]

Good Morning,

Well.... I had a chance listen to about 3 hours of my favorite music last night. I decided to do some more experimenting. I used the Direct only mode and changed the the speaker setting to full range. My mains will not produce bass much below 50Hz. Anyway, the detail was wonderful, the depth of the sound stage right on the money and gave a very good open air feeling to the music. The best I've listen to in my system to date. I'm very happy with the TM processor and finding the detail that this wonderful processor has added to my listening enjoyment.

Buzz, thanks very much with your help!

Rick




The Home Theater
DVD Collection