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  • Best electronic for 804D system

    Hi guys I just buy new acoustic panels from ATS and it will deliver soon I hope this could help my room , my next move will be a new universal player but I have a lot of doubt because I want the better performance in video(BD mainly) and also get a lot performance in audio(this will be my main concern). I need feed my beloved 804D system with something in the same level of them.

    I thought that an oppo bdp-93 could be the best move because I have a marantz cd5004 for cd player and I like its sounds but I will change my amplifier and receiver for something better like Rotel RSP-1572 or Integra DHC 80.3 with a classe CA-5300 or MAC205 in the next two years and this could be my main doubt because I thought that the DAC’s in the new receiver will be better that the dac in the oppo stereo output but recently I read from a forum that someone bought a integra DHC 80.3 and compare this with the BDP-95 and said that the oppo was a lot better instead of the Burr-Brown (x6) DAC’s in the integra and he sold his Integra just with a month of use you could believe that? So I think that I need think better my next move because I can’t go back with a purchase like this.(I know that I can’t believe all things everyone say in a forums but this is my only option for now because I can’t try in my system every stuff I want buy mainly because in my country we don’t have all type of dealer, the market is narrow).


    I have a lot of question for owner or people that could be in the past in the same road like me.

    I should get a oppo BDP-95 or I can get something close in audio performance with the Marantz and a 3000 usd or lower receiver like I said before?

    If I buy first the classe them the receiver don’t will be change for a least 2 years(my current receiver is a denon 3310) but if I don’t I could have a budget of 10000 usd available for both amp and receiver, what other choice I could have?


    My HT you can see in this link:



    Any advice is welcome.
    Leo,
    Saludos
    My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

    Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

  • #2
    There seems to be a lot of questions in here. But IMO you can't go wrong with oppo. Its a really fantastic player and you need to spend some serious money to get anything better.

    Oppo 93 is good, and the oppo 95 has better analog audio out. However if you are just going to use hdmi to a pre then the 93 is fine.
    B&W 800 Diamond, B&W805S, B&W DB1, Classe SSP 800, DIY Icepower ASX2 600W monos, Ayre QB9, JPlay.

    Comment


    • #3
      leo,

      I also don't think you can go wrong with the Oppo. If you are serious about sound then I would recommend the 95. I have not heard your Marantz cd5004, but given its price point the Oppo is likely to be better at everything including CD.

      When I got my Oppo 83SE (the predecessor to the 95) I ended up selling my 1 year old Rotel CD player, because the Oppo was better.

      The one point is that to get the benefit of the Oppo you MUST use the the analog outputs. That is also true for movies (analog 7.1 output).

      There is no question in my mind that the Oppo will be better then virtually all receivers and most prepros when it comes to DAC.

      Also, since you like Marantz, have you considered the AV7005?

      Cheers,

      Stuart
      Main System:
      B&W 801D
      Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
      Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
      Oppo BDP-105
      Squeezebox Touch


      Second System:
      B&W CM7
      Emotiva UMC-1
      Emotiva UPA-2
      Oppo BDP-83SE
      Grant Fidelity DAC-09

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks guys for yours inputs, basically my doubts is because I don't want in a future get a better source for my HT, if I will go for the 95 it will be use like cd player (stereo analog output) and for movie I will use HDMI because I don’t want to lose the audyssey set up of my receiver well all this could depend of the result I will get with the new panels that I bought. So for a real good performance in audio you never use the dac in your receiver for stereo listening? Even people which have the classe SSP800?
        Leo,
        Saludos
        My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

        Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

        Comment


        • #5
          Personally I don't use a receiver or pre-pro for stereo listening. Unless you are going to invest a ton of money in your pre/pro (SSP-800) you can get far better results using a proper stereo analog pre-amp and integrate it to your home theater with HT bypass. This is how I have my system setup. I do not want to invest big bucks in a pre/pro because they become obsolete so quickly.

          For movies I run HDMI to my pre/pro. For me, a pre/pro is quite adequate for movies.

          For music, where I am very critical I run the analog stereo outputs of my Oppo directly to my stereo preamp. For music from my Squeezebox, I run it to an external DAC first and then to the stereo preamp.

          I am currently running a Grant Fidelity DAC-09 tube DAC for my Squeezebox. I also have my Oppo running digital output to the DAC-09, so I can choose if I like to use the Oppo DAC or the DAC-09 DAC.

          The DAC-09 is a cheap DAC but sounds quite nice. I will eventually replace it with something better (Chord QBD76).
          Main System:
          B&W 801D
          Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
          Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
          Oppo BDP-105
          Squeezebox Touch


          Second System:
          B&W CM7
          Emotiva UMC-1
          Emotiva UPA-2
          Oppo BDP-83SE
          Grant Fidelity DAC-09

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by stuofsci02
            Personally I don't use a receiver or pre-pro for stereo listening. Unless you are going to invest a ton of money in your pre/pro (SSP-800) you can get far better results using a proper stereo analog pre-amp and integrate it to your home theater with HT bypass. This is how I have my system setup. I do not want to invest big bucks in a pre/pro because they become obsolete so quickly.

            For movies I run HDMI to my pre/pro. For me, a pre/pro is quite adequate for movies.

            For music, where I am very critical I run the analog stereo outputs of my Oppo directly to my stereo preamp. For music from my Squeezebox, I run it to an external DAC first and then to the stereo preamp.

            I am currently running a Grant Fidelity DAC-09 tube DAC for my Squeezebox. I also have my Oppo running digital output to the DAC-09, so I can choose if I like to use the Oppo DAC or the DAC-09 DAC.

            The DAC-09 is a cheap DAC but sounds quite nice. I will eventually replace it with something better (Chord QBD76).

            Hi stuofsci02 thanks a lot for you answer, how you set your front amp between you receiver and stereo preamp?, do you use your subwoofer with you stereo preamp? And if you do, how work the bass management in this kind of pre ampl (it will convert the analog signal to a digital first then make bass management and re convert to analog?)
            I'm sorry but I'm just a beginer, thanks again.
            Leo,
            Saludos
            My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

            Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

            Comment


            • #7
              Leo,

              In order to do this you need to use a preamp that has HT bypass.

              With this setup you would connect the preamp directly to the power amp for your fronts. On the preamp there is an input called HT bypass. This is like any other analog input, except it do not go through the volume control. There is also an HT bypass input for the sub.

              Then what you do is take your pre/pro mains/sub outs and run them into the preamps HT bypass inputs. Now when your preamp is on HT bypass it directly bypasses what is coming into the HTbyass inputs to the L/R and sub channel outputs.

              See page 11 of this manual for how it works with my USP-1

              Welcome to Emotiva Audio Corporation. Home Audio Systems, Speakers & Accessories and more. We use science to evoke the true emotion behind every note.


              To answer your question on subwoofers, yes I use two of them.

              The USP-1 preamp I have has a built in analog crossover for the mains and subs. That is I can set the mains for above a frequency and set the subs for below a frequency. These frequencies are independent. That is, I can set the main differently then the sub if I want them to overlap etc. I currently have the mains set for 50Hz and up and subs for 50Hz and down for stereo music. When you are in HTbypass, the signal does not go through the cross over, so would be exactly as it would be without the analog preamp. In this case your pre/pro bass management would apply.

              I have yet to hear a pre/pro or receiver (for under $2000) that is as good at stereo music as my Emotiva preamp which cost $400. I have certainly heard more expensive preamps sound better.
              Main System:
              B&W 801D
              Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
              Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
              Oppo BDP-105
              Squeezebox Touch


              Second System:
              B&W CM7
              Emotiva UMC-1
              Emotiva UPA-2
              Oppo BDP-83SE
              Grant Fidelity DAC-09

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by stuofsci02
                Leo,

                In order to do this you need to use a preamp that has HT bypass.

                With this setup you would connect the preamp directly to the power amp for your fronts. On the preamp there is an input called HT bypass. This is like any other analog input, except it do not go through the volume control. There is also an HT bypass input for the sub.

                Then what you do is take your pre/pro mains/sub outs and run them into the preamps HT bypass inputs. Now when your preamp is on HT bypass it directly bypasses what is coming into the HTbyass inputs to the L/R and sub channel outputs.

                See page 11 of this manual for how it works with my USP-1

                Welcome to Emotiva Audio Corporation. Home Audio Systems, Speakers & Accessories and more. We use science to evoke the true emotion behind every note.


                To answer your question on subwoofers, yes I use two of them.

                The USP-1 preamp I have has a built in analog crossover for the mains and subs. That is I can set the mains for above a frequency and set the subs for below a frequency. These frequencies are independent. That is, I can set the main differently then the sub if I want them to overlap etc. I currently have the mains set for 50Hz and up and subs for 50Hz and down for stereo music. When you are in HTbypass, the signal does not go through the cross over, so would be exactly as it would be without the analog preamp. In this case your pre/pro bass management would apply.

                I have yet to hear a pre/pro or receiver (for under $2000) that is as good at stereo music as my Emotiva preamp which cost $400. I have certainly heard more expensive preamps sound better.
                Many thanks stuofsci02 for all your time in answer this, I see which could be my next move, jajaja definitely it never ends ; your idea is very good and I have another question what can you say if you compare this toy vs your receiver nad?

                Well by the other hand I bought the 95 and it is already shipped, I thought that if I don’t like I have the option of return within 30 days of trial that oppo is giving.

                Thanks for all your helps.
                Leo,
                Saludos
                My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by leo2498
                  Many thanks stuofsci02 for all your time in answer this, I see which could be my next move, jajaja definitely it never ends ; your idea is very good and I have another question what can you say if you compare this toy vs your receiver nad?

                  Well by the other hand I bought the 95 and it is already shipped, I thought that if I don’t like I have the option of return within 30 days of trial that oppo is giving.

                  Thanks for all your helps.
                  I used to use my NAD reciever 5.1 EXT input for stereo music from the Oppo before I had the USP-1.. It is night and day... But the NAD is only a $500 AVR, so not much of a comparison anyway.

                  You will not return your Oppo 95.. I would bet on that..
                  Main System:
                  B&W 801D
                  Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                  Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                  Oppo BDP-105
                  Squeezebox Touch


                  Second System:
                  B&W CM7
                  Emotiva UMC-1
                  Emotiva UPA-2
                  Oppo BDP-83SE
                  Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    hi guys you don’t believe but my beautiful wife just gave me a new pair of rocket 33 bi-cable (yeap she loves me that way :B ) and I can't believe what different sound you could get with new cables, I have to admit that I was skeptic about this but it really works now I can felt more tight bass and better image.

                    I can' t wait to put my hands in the 95 :lol:
                    Leo,
                    Saludos
                    My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                    Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      hey leo just an fyi most of the newer nad avrs and processors are upgradable.so they claim to never be obsolete.
                      i am a rookie like yourself and i was using a denon 3312 then swithed to pioneer and took stuofsci02's advice and gave the nad"t175hd" a try and boy did it make a difference.good luck.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by stevek
                        hey leo just an fyi most of the newer nad avrs and processors are upgradable.so they claim to never be obsolete.
                        i am a rookie like yourself and i was using a denon 3312 then swithed to pioneer and took stuofsci02's advice and gave the nad"t175hd" a try and boy did it make a difference.good luck.

                        hi steve did you have the oportunity to audition the M series of NAD? if I not go for the classe, I think that it could be in my budget. what amp are you using in your system?
                        Leo,
                        Saludos
                        My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                        Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi guys any advice in new electronics for my 804D system (804D+HTM4D+805D) under 10000 usd budget or you will prefer the classe ca-5300 with the denon 3310 and this one last will be changed in two years at least by the rotel rsp1572? My main idea will be to match between stereo listening with HT blurays.

                          Another options that I'm thinking is a combo of rotel(rsp1572+rmb1575) or Marantz AV7500 with parasound A51, the class D amplification I thought is not the better for music playing but someone likes? :roll:
                          Leo,
                          Saludos
                          My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                          Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by leo2498
                            Hi guys any advice in new electronics for my 804D system (804D+HTM4D+805D) under 10000 usd budget or you will prefer the classe ca-5300 with the denon 3310 and this one last will be changed in two years at least by the rotel rsp1572? My main idea will be to match between stereo listening with HT blurays.

                            Another options that I'm thinking is a combo of rotel(rsp1572+rmb1575) or Marantz AV7500 with parasound A51, the class D amplification I thought is not the better for music playing but someone likes? :roll:
                            Are you saying you have $10,000 budget for just electronics?

                            I have audition, and had in my home (for several months) Rotel Class-D amps, and I have not found them to my liking. Of course your mileage may vary, but I would audition them heavily first.
                            Main System:
                            B&W 801D
                            Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                            Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                            Oppo BDP-105
                            Squeezebox Touch


                            Second System:
                            B&W CM7
                            Emotiva UMC-1
                            Emotiva UPA-2
                            Oppo BDP-83SE
                            Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by stuofsci02
                              Are you saying you have $10,000 budget for just electronics?

                              I have audition, and had in my home (for several months) Rotel Class-D amps, and I have not found them to my liking. Of course your mileage may vary, but I would audition them heavily first.
                              Hi stuofsci02, yes thats is exactly how much will costs me the classe (well 10500 with tax) and that could be my budget for get all electronic for this room, actually I have a rotel RB1582(6 month old) that I like a lot but it will move this for my stereo room (that its only the 804S with a cheap Yamaha receiver(500usd) and the Marantz CD004,) if I get the classe or whatever electronic I could chose.

                              I have two scenario: buy the most expensive amp for the high end sound pair with a low end preamp denon 3310 (by the way, my room is small I don’t need a lot of power but I prefer cleaner high end amplification) or buy something in the middle with this budget. My doubt is what could be the best scenario for me.
                              Leo,
                              Saludos
                              My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                              Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by leo2498
                                Hi stuofsci02, yes thats is exactly how much will costs me the classe (well 10500 with tax) and that could be my budget for get all electronic for this room, actually I have a rotel RB1582(6 month old) that I like a lot but it will move this for my stereo room (that its only the 804S with a cheap Yamaha receiver(500usd) and the Marantz CD004,) if I get the classe or whatever electronic I could chose.

                                I have two scenario: buy the most expensive amp for the high end sound pair with a low end preamp denon 3310 (by the way, my room is small I don’t need a lot of power but I prefer cleaner high end amplification) or buy something in the middle with this budget. My doubt is what could be the best scenario for me.
                                The RB1582 is a class A/B design if I recall correctly. It would certainly sound different then the Class D designs.

                                I have found in this hobby that the weakest link in the audio chain has a profound impact on end result. I have also found (and I wish I knew earlier) that the preamplification has a very dramatic impact on the overall presentation. In fact, much more so then the amp.

                                As a result I think you would be doing yourself a disservice to go expensive on the amp and cheap on the preamp, unless you plan to upgrade the preamp later on.

                                If you plan no further upgrades, I would consider buying a better preamp, and spending less on the amp.

                                Also, can you confirm your location/country?
                                Main System:
                                B&W 801D
                                Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                Oppo BDP-105
                                Squeezebox Touch


                                Second System:
                                B&W CM7
                                Emotiva UMC-1
                                Emotiva UPA-2
                                Oppo BDP-83SE
                                Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by stuofsci02
                                  The RB1582 is a class A/B design if I recall correctly. It would certainly sound different then the Class D designs.

                                  I have found in this hobby that the weakest link in the audio chain has a profound impact on end result. I have also found (and I wish I knew earlier) that the preamplification has a very dramatic impact on the overall presentation. In fact, much more so then the amp.

                                  As a result I think you would be doing yourself a disservice to go expensive on the amp and cheap on the preamp, unless you plan to upgrade the preamp later on.

                                  If you plan no further upgrades, I would consider buying a better preamp, and spending less on the amp.

                                  Also, can you confirm your location/country?
                                  Hi stuofsci02 I undertand you point of view, my location is Bogota Colombia. I have a dealer who sell mcintosh, classe and rotel but if I want something different then i will need to travel to usa at buy this.
                                  Leo,
                                  Saludos
                                  My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                  Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Leo,

                                    For 10,000 which Classe products can you get?

                                    Thanks,
                                    Main System:
                                    B&W 801D
                                    Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                    Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                    Oppo BDP-105
                                    Squeezebox Touch


                                    Second System:
                                    B&W CM7
                                    Emotiva UMC-1
                                    Emotiva UPA-2
                                    Oppo BDP-83SE
                                    Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by stuofsci02
                                      Leo,

                                      For 10,000 which Classe products can you get?

                                      Thanks,
                                      stuofsci02, this is the price for the classe CA-5300 in usd (10500 aprox uds with tax)
                                      Leo,
                                      Saludos
                                      My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                      Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by leo2498
                                        stuofsci02, this is the price for the classe CA-5300 in usd (10500 aprox uds with tax)
                                        Oh yeah... Now I remember why I am thinking about going back to straight stereo... :lol:

                                        I guess I can only say that I think you will not get anywhere near the benefit of the CA-5300 with an AVR as the preamp..

                                        Also, why do you want 300 watt for 804Di?
                                        Main System:
                                        B&W 801D
                                        Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                        Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                        Oppo BDP-105
                                        Squeezebox Touch


                                        Second System:
                                        B&W CM7
                                        Emotiva UMC-1
                                        Emotiva UPA-2
                                        Oppo BDP-83SE
                                        Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Originally posted by stuofsci02
                                          Oh yeah... Now I remember why I am thinking about going back to straight stereo... :lol:

                                          I guess I can only say that I think you will not get anywhere near the benefit of the CA-5300 with an AVR as the preamp..

                                          Also, why do you want 300 watt for 804Di?
                                          stuofsci02, I don’t need even 200W jajaja but I’m thinking in the classe because the integration with the B&W 800 series and everyone said about this one, classe don’t produce another multiamp then I have only one option if I will go for classe; another idea could be a classe CA2300 and maybe emotive 3 channel but this option is more cheaper but it will need more space too.
                                          Leo,
                                          Saludos
                                          My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                          Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by leo2498
                                            stuofsci02, I don’t need even 200W jajaja but I’m thinking in the classe because the integration with the B&W 800 series and everyone said about this one, classe don’t produce another multiamp then I have only one option if I will go for classe; another idea could be a classe CA2300 and maybe emotive 3 channel but this option is more cheaper but it will need more space too.
                                            In 1990 I bought a pair of Matrix 802 series 2. It was driven by a Tandberg 3006 (150 watts). I cannot tell you how many tweeters, midranges and woofers I blew over the 20 years I used them. When I upgraded a few years ago (802DI) I made sure I bought a 300 watt amp (Bryston 4BSST2). I haven't blown anything yet. Always get more than you need

                                            Dave
                                            Crystal Clear Music Tweaked Mac Mini / Yosemite -> JRiver 20 -> Ayre QB9DSD -> Bryston BP26DA -> Bryston 4BSST2 -> B&W 802Di | Transparent Reference XLRs, Transparent Super Speaker Cable, Maple Shade USB cable, Crystal Clear Music Power Cords

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Originally posted by Freddie40
                                              In 1990 I bought a pair of Matrix 802 series 2. It was driven by a Tandberg 3006 (150 watts). I cannot tell you how many tweeters, midranges and woofers I blew over the 20 years I used them. When I upgraded a few years ago (802DI) I made sure I bought a 300 watt amp (Bryston 4BSST2). I haven't blown anything yet. Always get more than you need

                                              Dave
                                              I assume you were clipping the amp?
                                              Main System:
                                              B&W 801D
                                              Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                              Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                              Oppo BDP-105
                                              Squeezebox Touch


                                              Second System:
                                              B&W CM7
                                              Emotiva UMC-1
                                              Emotiva UPA-2
                                              Oppo BDP-83SE
                                              Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Originally posted by leo2498
                                                stuofsci02, I don’t need even 200W jajaja but I’m thinking in the classe because the integration with the B&W 800 series and everyone said about this one, classe don’t produce another multiamp then I have only one option if I will go for classe; another idea could be a classe CA2300 and maybe emotive 3 channel but this option is more cheaper but it will need more space too.
                                                Leo,

                                                If you would go for an Emotiva XPA-3, why not go for an XPA-5 for an extra $170.

                                                Kal Rubinson (who frequents this forum) did a review for Stereophile last year. If you have not seen it:

                                                As I write this, in early August, the global economy is in flux and the stock market gyrates, seeming in stark contrast with the gleaming, luxurious audio components that surround me. Perhaps there is some prescience in my rising interest in reasonably priced, high-performance products, as exemplified by the Oppo Digital BDP-95 universal Blu-ray player, which I reviewed in this column in September. Surely there must be other products that provide truly excellent sound at prices strikingly lower than expected.


                                                You could start there and then home audition other amps like the CA-5300 against it. Based on my experience with Emotiva amps, I think you will be quite surprised. I use a UPA-1 which is basically an monoblock version of the XPA-5 on my HTM3S with excellent results.

                                                In fact I have even used my UPA-2 (which is now called the UPA-200 for some reason) on my 804S, and was pleasantly surprised..

                                                Emotiva also has their UMC-1 pre/pro (I have this also) on sale for $499.. Not an expensive experiment to try it as it can always be resold. I bought this as a temporary solution that has become permanent as it has been quite good.... ops:

                                                Their reference pre/pro called the XMC-1 is about to be released.. They are taking pre orders now.
                                                Main System:
                                                B&W 801D
                                                Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                Oppo BDP-105
                                                Squeezebox Touch


                                                Second System:
                                                B&W CM7
                                                Emotiva UMC-1
                                                Emotiva UPA-2
                                                Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Originally posted by stuofsci02
                                                  Leo,

                                                  If you would go for an Emotiva XPA-3, why not go for an XPA-5 for an extra $170.

                                                  Kal Rubinson (who frequents this forum) did a review for Stereophile last year. If you have not seen it:

                                                  As I write this, in early August, the global economy is in flux and the stock market gyrates, seeming in stark contrast with the gleaming, luxurious audio components that surround me. Perhaps there is some prescience in my rising interest in reasonably priced, high-performance products, as exemplified by the Oppo Digital BDP-95 universal Blu-ray player, which I reviewed in this column in September. Surely there must be other products that provide truly excellent sound at prices strikingly lower than expected.


                                                  You could start there and then home audition other amps like the CA-5300 against it. Based on my experience with Emotiva amps, I think you will be quite surprised. I use a UPA-1 which is basically an monoblock version of the XPA-5 on my HTM3S with excellent results.

                                                  In fact I have even used my UPA-2 (which is now called the UPA-200 for some reason) on my 804S, and was pleasantly surprised..

                                                  Emotiva also has their UMC-1 pre/pro (I have this also) on sale for $499.. Not an expensive experiment to try it as it can always be resold. I bought this as a temporary solution that has become permanent as it has been quite good.... ops:

                                                  Their reference pre/pro called the XMC-1 is about to be released.. They are taking pre orders now.
                                                  stuofsci02, I was been tempted for the emotiva gear but I read some comments from people that own them and they really like a lot but with some time finally they changed it for a spensive high end gear so I thought if I would put this kind of money in this then I have need to be the last time because and in a near future I will not know if I would buy this type of toy.

                                                  I need be wise with my purchase because it will be the last one in maybe 10 or 20 year.
                                                  Leo,
                                                  Saludos
                                                  My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                                  Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • #26
                                                    Originally posted by leo2498
                                                    stuofsci02, I was been tempted for the emotiva gear but I read some comments from people that own them and they really like a lot but with some time finally they changed it for a spensive high end gear so I thought if I would put this kind of money in this then I have need to be the last time because and in a near future I will not know if I would buy this type of toy.

                                                    I need be wise with my purchase because it will be the last one in maybe 10 or 20 year.
                                                    Leo,

                                                    You are quite different then most audio guys who are always looking to make improvements or try other things .

                                                    If you plan this to be your last upgrade then you really really need to have the proper front end. I think you said you got the Oppo 95, so that is a good start, but IMO you definitely need to have a proper preamp or pre/pro if you invest that kind of money in the amp.

                                                    Of course there always has to be a compromise unless money is unlimited.

                                                    That said, I have had my Emotiva preamp for 2 years and have been very happy. When I am ready I am hoping to add something like this to my setup.



                                                    The Emotiva stuff sells itself on the used market (especially when you are outside the US). So probably it costs me almost nothing to experiment and find out what I am missing..

                                                    Cheers!

                                                    Stuart
                                                    Main System:
                                                    B&W 801D
                                                    Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                    Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                    Oppo BDP-105
                                                    Squeezebox Touch


                                                    Second System:
                                                    B&W CM7
                                                    Emotiva UMC-1
                                                    Emotiva UPA-2
                                                    Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                    Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                    Comment


                                                    • #27
                                                      Originally posted by stuofsci02
                                                      Leo,

                                                      You are quite different then most audio guys who are always looking to make improvements or try other things .

                                                      If you plan this to be your last upgrade then you really really need to have the proper front end. I think you said you got the Oppo 95, so that is a good start, but IMO you definitely need to have a proper preamp or pre/pro if you invest that kind of money in the amp.

                                                      Of course there always has to be a compromise unless money is unlimited.

                                                      That said, I have had my Emotiva preamp for 2 years and have been very happy. When I am ready I am hoping to add something like this to my setup.



                                                      The Emotiva stuff sells itself on the used market (especially when you are outside the US). So probably it costs me almost nothing to experiment and find out what I am missing..

                                                      Cheers!

                                                      Stuart

                                                      stuofsci02, yeap I'm in a dilemma but the money is the biggest problem jajaja it is not unlimited. I'm asking to my dealer borrow a rotel stereo preamp when I will have in my hands the oppo to see how it sound with both(denon and rotel). I agreed with you about the front end but I thought maybe best amp is more important that a best pre amp but I see that I was wrong about this.

                                                      I can’t wait for the oppo !!! by the way, the panels come this Monday I wondering if I could bother you with some advise in locations of them?

                                                      thanks a lot for all your time. :T

                                                      p.d I have been looking this preamp since you advised me of this:

                                                      Leo,
                                                      Saludos
                                                      My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                                      Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                                      Comment


                                                      • #28
                                                        Leo,

                                                        In general the accepted way to place panels is to center them at first reflection points. The easiest way to do this, is to sit exactly in the position you listen and have someone (wife, girlfriend, mistress.... Just not all three) slide a hand held mirror along all the walls. Anywhere you can see a mid range driver (from any of your speakers) is a spot for panel.

                                                        When I did my room I only did first refection points for my main speakers, since my focus is on stereo music. You also do not want to get so many panels that your room becomes overdamped.

                                                        This is what I ended up with..





                                                        That preamp looks nice.. I have looked at it before.. But have you considered the Parasound P7? It is a full analog preamp for 7.1. To use that you would run the 7.1 analog outputs from your Oppo to the 7.1 inputs on the P7. All DAC would be done in the Oppo.

                                                        Cheers.
                                                        Main System:
                                                        B&W 801D
                                                        Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                        Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                        Oppo BDP-105
                                                        Squeezebox Touch


                                                        Second System:
                                                        B&W CM7
                                                        Emotiva UMC-1
                                                        Emotiva UPA-2
                                                        Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                        Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                        Comment


                                                        • #29
                                                          Hi Stuart, thanks again for your help.
                                                          What about behind of each speaker, my room is very small and I think that 4 panel for now it will be enough (that said ATS simulator in his web), I bought two of 24x36x4 Inches and two 24x24x2 Inches but if I need more I will buy this.

                                                          This could be a option for location, what do you think?
                                                          Attached Files
                                                          Leo,
                                                          Saludos
                                                          My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                                          Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                                          Comment


                                                          • #30
                                                            Originally posted by leo2498
                                                            Hi Stuart, thanks again for your help.
                                                            What about behind of each speaker, my room is very small and I think that 4 panel for now it will be enough (that said ATS simulator in his web), I bought two of 24x36x4 Inches and two 24x24x2 Inches but if I need more I will buy this.

                                                            This could be a option for location, what do you think?
                                                            Yes I should have been clearer.. Behind each speaker at the midrange height is also important as it will prevent backward radiated sound from coming back to the listener.

                                                            I think the side reflection points are very important. I noticed a much more precise sound stage after adding these ones.

                                                            Because your seat is at the back wall having panels there also makes sense. For me I have 14 feet behind me, so I did not want anything on the back walls as it would have made the back of the room sound very dead. What I really need back there is diffusers.

                                                            P.S. did you look at the parasound P7?

                                                            Stuart
                                                            Main System:
                                                            B&W 801D
                                                            Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                            Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                            Oppo BDP-105
                                                            Squeezebox Touch


                                                            Second System:
                                                            B&W CM7
                                                            Emotiva UMC-1
                                                            Emotiva UPA-2
                                                            Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                            Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                            Comment


                                                            • #31
                                                              Originally posted by stuofsci02
                                                              Yes I should have been clearer.. Behind each speaker at the midrange height is also important as it will prevent backward radiated sound from coming back to the listener.

                                                              I think the side reflection points are very important. I noticed a much more precise sound stage after adding these ones.

                                                              Because your seat is at the back wall having panels there also makes sense. For me I have 14 feet behind me, so I did not want anything on the back walls as it would have made the back of the room sound very dead. What I really need back there is diffusers.

                                                              P.S. did you look at the parasound P7?

                                                              Stuart

                                                              Stuart,
                                                              Yes I did, but I wondering if I will go with it I can’t use Audyssey or equivalent room correction SW for HT that actually work good for me, I will test different scenario with the oppo to learn if I need room correction; if I don’t see any improvement with this instead of bass management inside the oppo, It will be a firm candidate for preamp.

                                                              p.d How loud you hear your music in your set up? 75dB or more dB? are you using equipment for measurements for knows how was everything?
                                                              Leo,
                                                              Saludos
                                                              My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                                              Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                                              Comment


                                                              • #32
                                                                Originally posted by leo2498
                                                                Stuart,
                                                                Yes I did, but I wondering if I will go with it I can’t use Audyssey or equivalent room correction SW for HT that actually work good for me, I will test different scenario with the oppo to learn if I need room correction; if I don’t see any improvement with this instead of bass management inside the oppo, It will be a firm candidate for preamp.

                                                                p.d How loud you hear your music in your set up? 75dB or more dB? are you using equipment for measurements for knows how was everything?
                                                                I will check with my Radioshack SPL meter and get back to you..

                                                                Cheers
                                                                Main System:
                                                                B&W 801D
                                                                Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                Oppo BDP-105
                                                                Squeezebox Touch


                                                                Second System:
                                                                B&W CM7
                                                                Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                Comment


                                                                • #33
                                                                  Alright...

                                                                  Maximum normal listening level from my seating position is 80-85 dB with peaks as high as 90 dB.

                                                                  Cheers
                                                                  Main System:
                                                                  B&W 801D
                                                                  Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                  Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                  Oppo BDP-105
                                                                  Squeezebox Touch


                                                                  Second System:
                                                                  B&W CM7
                                                                  Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                  Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                  Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                  Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                  Comment


                                                                  • #34
                                                                    many thanks Stuart, I set my system in 75 dB to reference level and I never get this volume so I think that maybe 125 W could be enough power for my system.
                                                                    Leo,
                                                                    Saludos
                                                                    My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                                                    Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                    • #35
                                                                      For sure it is... You just want to be sure you have an amp that can also handle the low impedance ~3 ohm..

                                                                      My amp is rated 210 watt into 2ohm, so I never have any issues with power even though it is 130 watt into 8 ohms.
                                                                      Main System:
                                                                      B&W 801D
                                                                      Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                      Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                      Oppo BDP-105
                                                                      Squeezebox Touch


                                                                      Second System:
                                                                      B&W CM7
                                                                      Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                      Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                      Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                      Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                      Comment


                                                                      • #36
                                                                        Originally posted by stuofsci02
                                                                        For sure it is... You just want to be sure you have an amp that can also handle the low impedance ~3 ohm..

                                                                        My amp is rated 210 watt into 2ohm, so I never have any issues with power even though it is 130 watt into 8 ohms.
                                                                        Hi Stuart,
                                                                        the panels arrived today and I put them temporary in the location that I was thinking but the sound was deteriorated, I lose clarity in the highs and I think was unpleasent; what I did wrong ? I need re calibrate my system? any advise is very welcome.

                                                                        By the way, I bought two 24"x36"x4" and two 24"x24"x2" this few panels could do my room a dead room?
                                                                        Last edited by leo2498; 25 July 2012, 09:10 Wednesday.
                                                                        Leo,
                                                                        Saludos
                                                                        My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                                                        Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                        • #37
                                                                          Take down the back two panels and let me know what you find.
                                                                          Main System:
                                                                          B&W 801D
                                                                          Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                          Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                          Oppo BDP-105
                                                                          Squeezebox Touch


                                                                          Second System:
                                                                          B&W CM7
                                                                          Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                          Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                          Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                          Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                          Comment


                                                                          • #38
                                                                            Ok Thanks, I will try this option when return to my home and let you know, Do I need re calibrated to get better sound? without panels my system sound good but with them not.
                                                                            Leo,
                                                                            Saludos
                                                                            My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                                                            Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                            • #39
                                                                              One of the keys to great home audio is placement and experimentation. Take your time. It will not happen overnight. Sometimes it can take months or even years to find your personal audio heaven!.
                                                                              Dan Madden :T

                                                                              Comment


                                                                              • #40
                                                                                Originally posted by leo2498
                                                                                Ok Thanks, I will try this option when return to my home and let you know, Do I need re calibrated to get better sound? without panels my system sound good but with them not.
                                                                                Are you using a room correction with stereo music listening?
                                                                                Main System:
                                                                                B&W 801D
                                                                                Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                                Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                                Oppo BDP-105
                                                                                Squeezebox Touch


                                                                                Second System:
                                                                                B&W CM7
                                                                                Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                                Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                                Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                                Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                • #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by madmac
                                                                                  One of the keys to great home audio is placement and experimentation. Take your time. It will not happen overnight. Sometimes it can take months or even years to find your personal audio heaven!.
                                                                                  Thanks for the advice, it is true in one night I will not get the best performance.
                                                                                  Leo,
                                                                                  Saludos
                                                                                  My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                                                                  Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                  • #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by stuofsci02
                                                                                    Are you using a room correction with stereo music listening?
                                                                                    Hi Stuart, in this moment I used the internal DAC of the denon 3310 because I think that it's better than my cd player and this used the audyssey EQ but I know with the oppo will be another scenario, so I hope it will come tomorrow and let me get the best of both things. I can't wait for it. :lol:
                                                                                    Leo,
                                                                                    Saludos
                                                                                    My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                                                                    Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                    • #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by leo2498
                                                                                      Hi Stuar, right now I used the internal DAC of the denon 3310 because I think that it's better than my cd player and this used the audyssey EQ but I know with the oppo will be another scenario, so I hope it will come tomorrow and let me get the best of both things. I can't wait for it. :lol:
                                                                                      Yeah.. I suggest you go without the Audyssey or at least recalibrate it.

                                                                                      If you calibrated without the panels then the Audyssey will adjust everything based on that room setup. I am not surprised to find it is not at good now... It is time for a TOTAL RECAL! Oh just dump it all together for stereo..

                                                                                      Cheers
                                                                                      Main System:
                                                                                      B&W 801D
                                                                                      Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                                      Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                                      Oppo BDP-105
                                                                                      Squeezebox Touch


                                                                                      Second System:
                                                                                      B&W CM7
                                                                                      Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                                      Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                                      Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                                      Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                      • #44
                                                                                        Hi Stuart,
                                                                                        I have been working with the location of the panels and the best place was in front my glass window behind of the curtain but this is a inaccessible place so I had to put this in the first location that I thought. The sound with the Oppo is unbelievable, big difference in quality audio and the panel although it no located in the best place waoo! 8O it is a big improvement too. I put some pics that I took yesterday, I need to work hard to fit everything and let you know how it is.
                                                                                        Attached Files
                                                                                        Leo,
                                                                                        Saludos
                                                                                        My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD

                                                                                        Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                        • #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by leo2498
                                                                                          Hi Stuart,
                                                                                          I have been working with the location of the panels and the best place was in front my glass window behind of the curtain but this is a inaccessible place so I had to put this in the first location that I thought. The sound with the Oppo is unbelievable, big difference in quality audio and the panel although it no located in the best place waoo! 8O it is a big improvement too. I put some pics that I took yesterday, I need to work hard to fit everything and let you know how it is.
                                                                                          Yes... Glass is the worst.. I didn't know you had a window, but if you are willing to block them it will do wonders...

                                                                                          I thought you would like the Oppo... It is really the bargain of home audio IMO...
                                                                                          Main System:
                                                                                          B&W 801D
                                                                                          Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                                          Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                                          Oppo BDP-105
                                                                                          Squeezebox Touch


                                                                                          Second System:
                                                                                          B&W CM7
                                                                                          Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                                          Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                                          Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                                          Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                                          Comment

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