Best electronic for 804D system

[Henry982]

Leo

Sorry about the delay in my answer but I've been packed at work. I use the PC as one source with some good quality mp3 but my main source is the PS3 and my DVD and Bluray Concerts. I have connected my PS3 through an HDMI cable to the TV (same for comcast the cable company) and then using the TV as a bridge using the analog output from the tv directly to my rotel pre-amp.

Further I'm going to write some lines about my short-story that maybe can be helpful.

The reason why I change my set-up:

I started with two BW685 connected pure stereo to my pioneer elite receiver vsx-52. I liked the sound but I always knew that I needed more. Then, my wife was complaining because the dialog in the movies was missing (the least of my concerns but she was right) and that’s how I decided to buy the HTM1 center. After a couple of months and endless hours fixing the system, I decided that the receiver was the problem. So, I borrowed a SC-55 from my uncle. Much better sound, in this one you can set-up the equalizer for each speaker.

After a while I decided that I needed a better speaker. So, I sold my 685 and I bought two 683. A total disaster. The pioneer and the 683 did not sound good for me. So, I went to an audio store, and I bought the NAD 356BEE integrated amp. Great Sound. A totally different story.

Two months later I was assigned to work here in Chicago. So I brought all my gear and I was happy until the day that I went to the biggest audio store in town. When, I auditioned my speakers with the rotel rc-1520. I was so fascinated that I bought it right away. The sound was incredible but after a couple of hours the amp use to go into protection. So, I went back to the store and the guy gave me the RC-1550, and RB-1552. Man, my life change after that moment. I was trying not to spend more money, my wife was ready to kill me but it was all worth it. I just loved the sound. Up to the point that I trade my 683 and I bought the CM8 just to get the purest sound I can afford.

My result. After having in my house some of the greatest receivers in the market (Onkyo NR-1008, Pioneer Elite SC-55, Pioneer Elite VSX-52) which drives dts-THX etc. Guys this rc-1550 sound better for movies, concerts and music in general is just superb.

By the way I have a Rel T3 but I'm thinking on going forward to the Rel T-1 to close my system for now.

Have a great day. Long answer Leo but I hope it helps you.

[stuofsci02]

I understand perfectly your point with the kids . In my audition I can perceived that with different preamp I could get better performance with the same apm(rotel) but I wondering if in the amplifier is the same, if I will get the classe preamp with my rotel it will be a waste of money? I talked with my dealer and the price for both(classe pre with CA-2300) is near to 14k so I'm thinking in get the pre first and the new amp down of the road.
It's a bad idea?

I can see that you put your money first in the amp side, for your ears in the amp side was the major upgrade?



That is an affirmation that I can see with this forums, some guys have the SSP800 that supposedly can performance excelent in both HT and stereo audio, they are buying the CP800 for stereo listening so I think that you are not at all wrong.

I don't think getting a great preamp first and upgrading the amp later is a bad choice at all.

I know I did it backwards, but I think this was a rookie mistake on my part. If I had to do it all over again, I would get a great preamp first and get something like a Emotiva XPA-2 or something like that, until I could match my amp with the preamp.

I am finding that once you reach a certain level of amp the differences can be quite small. I have an Emotiva UPA-2 which is 125 wpc and when I compare to my Chord SPM-650 at 130wpc, I for sure like the Chord better, but the differences are not night and day as some might assume. The Chord is faster, less grainy and has better overall control of the speakers IMO, but I think the preamp would make a bigger difference.. At least that is what I have noticed.

Here is another thread I wrote after testing my Emo USP-1 vs. an entry level Chord preamp.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=prepro&action=display&thread=15403

[leo2498]

TT = Turn Table

I am also in the same boat.. Now I have a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year old son. I don't have near the time to sit down and watch a whole movie or concert. So if I can squeeze 20-30 min with the stereo, then it has to do. As a result my focus has changed.

Also when I mention 5x the price I picked that number as an example. I know someone will come on to this thread and flame me for making such a statement. But the fact is, a pre/pro with similar audio performance will be much more expensive then a stereo preamp. At some price point the preamp will become better then the best pre/pro due to it's dedicated design..

I understand perfectly your point with the kids . In my audition I can perceived that with different preamp I could get better performance with the same apm(rotel) but I wondering if in the amplifier is the same, if I will get the classe preamp with my rotel it will be a waste of money? I talked with my dealer and the price for both(classe pre with CA-2300) is near to 14k so I'm thinking in get the pre first and the new amp down of the road.
It's a bad idea?

I can see that you put your money first in the amp side, for your ears in the amp side was the major upgrade?

Also when I mention 5x the price I picked that number as an example. I know someone will come on to this thread and flame me for making such a statement. But the fact is, a pre/pro with similar audio performance will be much more expensive then a stereo preamp. At some price point the preamp will become better then the best pre/pro due to it's dedicated design..

That is an affirmation that I can see with this forums, some guys have the SSP800 that supposedly can performance excelent in both HT and stereo audio, they are buying the CP800 for stereo listening so I think that you are not at all wrong.

[stuofsci02]

With the same result I mean that with a stereo high-end preamp the sound is much more clear with better presentation, the voice and instrument in the right place, it’s like more focused and well define; I’m not an audiophile but I want to become one. The denon when it was release cost about 1,5 k and now the new version are about 1,2k I guess, so in this ballpark I think that it not do well the job. When I compared the rotel RC1550 with the Atoll the main difference was that the atoll have better midrange and the highs were less strident more warm and this is what I wanted.

Again Stuart you are right, I use my HT about 80% for music and 20% for movie since my baby was born, mainly use is for Cd’s playback and some bluray concert. So I’m thinking that I need put my money in the right place (stereo listen) so in your list is my answer so for now I will discard the idea of CA5300 and I’m thinking to buy a CA2300 when I could audition this and for the pre maybe something that match well between both world like the parasound or something like the classe CP800(i just see you other answer).

p.d what is TT?

TT = Turn Table

I am also in the same boat.. Now I have a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year old son. I don't have near the time to sit down and watch a whole movie or concert. So if I can squeeze 20-30 min with the stereo, then it has to do. As a result my focus has changed.

Also when I mention 5x the price I picked that number as an example. I know someone will come on to this thread and flame me for making such a statement. But the fact is, a pre/pro with similar audio performance will be much more expensive then a stereo preamp. At some price point the preamp will become better then the best pre/pro due to it's dedicated design..

[leo2498]

Hmmm... You mention the "same result", but what result are you referring to?

I have not spent much time with pre/pros as I have myself given in to the fact that I do not require absolute "top performance" for my multichannel applications which for me consist of movies, blu-ray concerts and MC DVD-A and SACD. For me a good ($1k-$2k) pre/pro does the job for the amount of time I spend on this.

Since there is only so much $$$$ to go around I have decided to put it where I spend most of my time and that is on stereo listening (so transport, DAC, preamp, amp, speakers and maybe a TT someday).

If you stick with pre/pro then I think you need to spend 5x to equal a good stereo preamp. Then at some $$$ point the pre/pro just won't be able to match. Where that is, I am not sure and I think will depend on user and equipment.

What I can say is if I could get the same performance out of a pre/pro for $1500 as I do out of my $350 Emotiva USP-1 I would get the pre/pro, but so far the USP-1 has given me every reason to believe I would have to spend a lot more.

So I have made the decision that when I have more time I will sell my HTM3s center channel and all my HT gear (pre/pro, center channel amp, rear amp etc.) and focus on stereo only. This will allow me to focus my resources on 5 things.

The only thing that I am sure I will miss is my HTM3s... For movies a good center really is something to appreciate.

With the same result I mean that with a stereo high-end preamp the sound is much more clear with better presentation, the voice and instrument in the right place, it’s like more focused and well define; I’m not an audiophile but I want to become one. The denon when it was release cost about 1,5 k and now the new version are about 1,2k I guess, so in this ballpark I think that it not do well the job. When I compared the rotel RC1550 with the Atoll the main difference was that the atoll have better midrange and the highs were less strident more warm and this is what I wanted.

Again Stuart you are right, I use my HT about 80% for music and 20% for movie since my baby was born, mainly use is for Cd’s playback and some bluray concert. So I’m thinking that I need put my money in the right place (stereo listen) so in your list is my answer so for now I will discard the idea of CA5300 and I’m thinking to buy a CA2300 when I could audition this and for the pre maybe something that match well between both world like the parasound or something like the classe CP800(i just see you other answer).

p.d what is TT?

[stuofsci02]

thanks stuart for this complete list, but I wondering if is possible get the same result with a HT processor under 5000 usd budget, for example rotel, NAD or Anthem or something like that.

Hmmm... You mention the "same result", but what result are you referring to?

I have not spent much time with pre/pros as I have myself given in to the fact that I do not require absolute "top performance" for my multichannel applications which for me consist of movies, blu-ray concerts and MC DVD-A and SACD. For me a good ($1k-$2k) pre/pro does the job for the amount of time I spend on this.

Since there is only so much $$$$ to go around I have decided to put it where I spend most of my time and that is on stereo listening (so transport, DAC, preamp, amp, speakers and maybe a TT someday).

If you stick with pre/pro then I think you need to spend 5x to equal a good stereo preamp. Then at some $$$ point the pre/pro just won't be able to match. Where that is, I am not sure and I think will depend on user and equipment.

What I can say is if I could get the same performance out of a pre/pro for $1500 as I do out of my $350 Emotiva USP-1 I would get the pre/pro, but so far the USP-1 has given me every reason to believe I would have to spend a lot more.

So I have made the decision that when I have more time I will sell my HTM3s center channel and all my HT gear (pre/pro, center channel amp, rear amp etc.) and focus on stereo only. This will allow me to focus my resources on 5 things.

The only thing that I am sure I will miss is my HTM3s... For movies a good center really is something to appreciate.

[leo2498]

I think this is why so many people are constantly shuffling gear. What may work at one time in your audio journey may not later on.

There are a lot of preamps that have HTbypass. From my search on the web I found a partial list of some. I have not checked these for accuracy though.

thanks stuart for this complete list, but I wondering if is possible get the same result with a HT processor under 5000 usd budget, for example rotel, NAD or Anthem or something like that.

[stuofsci02]

Hi Stuart,
I was trying two preamp that my dealer borrow me for audition and after two day of extensive listen both, I’m really worry for the result; my first thought was the rotel gear had an excellent amplifiers but its preamp is not enough good for my taste. I compared it with an atoll IN400 (what great product the atoll is) not my kind of amplifier but excellent preamplifier and this is why I'm worry , I will need a preamp soon but for my HT only I Know two option(your pre emotive and the P7 parasound) but I afraid that like with the rotel neither like to me taste. It’s possible get the same performance in stereo listening with a high end pre under 5000 usd budget?

Well my first thought that buy the best now and keeping for a least 10 year, it is not a good idea so the first answer is that I need try different gear because all component have its own sugar.

I think this is why so many people are constantly shuffling gear. What may work at one time in your audio journey may not later on.

There are a lot of preamps that have HTbypass. From my search on the web I found a partial list of some. I have not checked these for accuracy though.

Abrahamsen Audio PA-1
Abrahamsen Audio V3.0
Adcom GFP 750
Advantage S2
Arcam Alpha 9C
Arcam FMJ C30
Arcam FMJ C31
Atoll PR300
Audio Analogue Bellini
Audio Analogue Maestro Stereo Line Preamplifier
Audio Research SP16L
Ayre K-5xe
bel canto PRe1
Bel Canto PRe3
Cambridge Audio Azur 840E
Cary Audio cpa 1
Cary Audio SLP-2002
Cary SLP03 (tube)
Cary Audio SLP-5
Chapter Audio Preface
Classè CP65
Classè CP-500
Classè CP-700
Conrad Johnson CT5
Conrad Johnson CT6
Conrad Johnson Premier 18LS
Conrad Johnson PV14L
Conrad Johnson PV15
Densen B-200
Densen B-230
Densen B-250
Dodd (tube)
Emotiva USP-1
GamuT D3
GamuT D3i
Jeff Rowland Capri Preamplifier
Jeff Rowland Coherence II
Jeff Rowland Concerto Preamplifier
Jeff Rowland Synergy IIi
Krell KCT
Krell Evolution two
Krell Evolution 202
Krell Evolution 222
Krell KAV-250p
Krell KPS-25SC (inkl. CD-spiller)
Krell KRC 3
Krell KRC-HR
Linn Klimax Kontrol
Linn Kolektor
Mark Levinson N° 32
Mark Levinson N° 320
Mark Levinson N° 320S
Mark Levinson N° 326S
Mark Levinson N° 38
Mark Levinson N° 380
Mark Levinson N° 380S
McCormack RLD-1
Micromega PA-20
Modwright 9.0 and 36.5
Musical Fidelity A5cr Premplifier
Musical Fidelity kW Tube (6112) Line Preamplifier
Naim NAC 112x
Naim NAC 122x
Naim NAC 202
Naim NAC 252
Naim NAC 282
Naim NAC 552
Nuforce P8/P9 (SS)

Odyssey Candela
Odyssey Tempest (SS)
Odyssey Kismet LS (new - tube)
Parasound Halo P7
Parasound NewClassic Model 2100
Primare PRE30 PreAmplifier
Proceed Pre
PS Audio GCP 200 (SS)
PS Audio PCA-2
Roksan Platinum PR150B Pre Amplifier
Rotel RC-1580
Rouge Audio Perseus
Sim Audio MOON P-3
Sim Audio MOON P-5
Sim Audio MOON P-7
Sim Audio MOON P-8
Supratek Chardonnay
VTL TL-2.5
VTL TL-5.5
VTL TL-6.5
VTL TL-7.5
Wyred 4 Sound STP (new - SS)
Yba Passion 400 PRE
Yba Passion 600 PRE
Yba Passion 1000 PRE

[leo2498]

Hi Stuart,
I was trying two preamp that my dealer borrow me for audition and after two day of extensive listen both, I’m really worry for the result; my first thought was the rotel gear had an excellent amplifiers but its preamp is not enough good for my taste. I compared it with an atoll IN400 (what great product the atoll is) not my kind of amplifier but excellent preamplifier and this is why I'm worry , I will need a preamp soon but for my HT only I Know two option(your pre emotive and the P7 parasound) but I afraid that like with the rotel neither like to me taste. It’s possible get the same performance in stereo listening with a high end pre under 5000 usd budget?

Well my first thought that buy the best now and keeping for a least 10 year, it is not a good idea so the first answer is that I need try different gear because all component have its own sugar.

[leo2498]

Leo,

I went back and found my first thread here which was when I was deciding what amp to get...

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...ight=Chord+SPM

thanks stuart, I read your thread and now I can see your point, you was getting the best for your music like I do, so I'm thinking that the best for me now is try different electronics and see what is the best for me like you did. the only problem is that I have to travel to do this, for now my dealer will me borrow his pre and let me try this in home so I will let you know.
Thanks again four you time. :T

[stuofsci02]

Leo,

I went back and found my first thread here which was when I was deciding what amp to get...

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=35238&highlight=Chord+SPM

[stuofsci02]

hi stuart, why you chose the Chord amp instead of parasound amp? some special features you drive to get this one? for the other hand, are you ever to listen prima luna 3 pre amp? my dealer call me today to say that he have a second hand of this preamp, I never hear of them.

It had nothing to do with features etc.. In fact the Chord is a pretty basic amp when it comes to features. And was more expensive for only 130 watts into 8 ohms.

But compared to every other amp I have heard with my speakers it is better for me. I just love it. I have not tried any Classe amps though.

[leo2498]

Leo once I read again all your comments. Try to be consistent with the brand. Rotel pre and amp sounds incredible for BW. Finally, Audioquest analog cables have worked for me very well.

Saludos y cualquier ayuda estamos a la orden.

Henry

Hi Henry,
what source are you using for feed your system? only the p.c?

[leo2498]

I auditioned heavily the A21 (which is a two channel version of the A51) with my 804s. I ended up preferring the Chord amp which I bought, but I thought the A21 was very good also. But if I was to go for the A21, I think I would have gone for the JC1 instead.

I have not heard the A22/A52, but I imagine the sonic signature should be similar.

hi stuart, why you chose the Chord amp instead of parasound amp? some special features you drive to get this one? for the other hand, are you ever to listen prima luna 3 pre amp? my dealer call me today to say that he have a second hand of this preamp, I never hear of them.

[stuofsci02]

Hi Henry,
Thank for your advice, I like rotel gear a lot but it don’t have a preamp with bypass to use this like pure stereo preamp; I asking to my dealer a rc-1550 borrow this weekend to try this in my system and if I see that this it is the weak of my system maybe I will get the parasound P7 that could work in both world(stereo and multichanel), sadly rotel have discontinued the multi amp AB I will prefer buy a same brand amps instead of have mix of brand.

I'm thinking to get the P7 with the A52 and continue with the denon (for movie) and I forget the classe(saving some coins).

how could be this math between parasound and 800 series, are not much owner of B&W with this kind of set up.

I auditioned heavily the A21 (which is a two channel version of the A51) with my 804s. I ended up preferring the Chord amp which I bought, but I thought the A21 was very good also. But if I was to go for the A21, I think I would have gone for the JC1 instead.

I have not heard the A22/A52, but I imagine the sonic signature should be similar.

[leo2498]

Leo once I read again all your comments. Try to be consistent with the brand. Rotel pre and amp sounds incredible for BW. Finally, Audioquest analog cables have worked for me very well.

Saludos y cualquier ayuda estamos a la orden.

Henry

Hi Henry,
Thank for your advice, I like rotel gear a lot but it don’t have a preamp with bypass to use this like pure stereo preamp; I asking to my dealer a rc-1550 borrow this weekend to try this in my system and if I see that this it is the weak of my system maybe I will get the parasound P7 that could work in both world(stereo and multichanel), sadly rotel have discontinued the multi amp AB I will prefer buy a same brand amps instead of have mix of brand.

I'm thinking to get the P7 with the A52 and continue with the denon (for movie) and I forget the classe(saving some coins).

how could be this math between parasound and 800 series, are not much owner of B&W with this kind of set up.

[Henry982]

Leo once I read again all your comments. Try to be consistent with the brand. Rotel pre and amp sounds incredible for BW. Finally, Audioquest analog cables have worked for me very well.

Saludos y cualquier ayuda estamos a la orden.

Henry

[Henry982]

Hola Leo,

My name is Henry and I'm a Venezuelan living in Chicago. I just checked this forum and I know exactly how you feel because I had the same problem. After visiting more than 3 different big audio stores here in Chicago and testing in my place a lot of different amps and pre-amp. I must agree that the pre-amp is one of the most important pieces in the sound quality. My budget which is lower than yours just cover two BW CM8 and a Rotel RC-1550 and RB-1552. The key here is synergy.

First Rotel is built by the same company who builds BW and Classe. Therefore, the BW which are tough to drive are designed with the Rotel Power. So, For what I have heard I would recommend to use your rotel amp with the RC-1080. This pre-amp sounds incredible. Believe me forget about your Dennon. Once you try this combo you will be amazed by what your BW can do.

Attached I'm sending you a pic of my setting. Once again, I'm not trying to step over others comments. However, all the things that I'm telling you, I've tried myself and I'm really happy with the result.

Have a great day

[leo2498]

Any filtering that the Denon will do will most certainly be in the digital domain, so this is not good for sound.. Not only are you using the inferior DAC in the Denon, but you are also using a ADC when you go into the Denon.

So you get Oppo DAC -> Denon ADC -> Denon DAC.. Yikes!

yep that is exactly I trying to avoid, but I want be sure about it. if I will get the same thing with the pure audio option (whatever set up I do in the denon) is a big problem to me, by the way in this set up the sound is not bad at all.

Any tip with the distance in the oppo?

[stuofsci02]

I used the dedicated stereo output to listen cd in pure audio option and in the other hand I connected the hdmi2 for movie use(audio only), When I listen my CD I used the dac of the oppo but I see that with the option main+lfe I get more bass output but I wondering if the denon are reconfigured the analog signal to digital in this way.

Any filtering that the Denon will do will most certainly be in the digital domain, so this is not good for sound.. Not only are you using the inferior DAC in the Denon, but you are also using a ADC when you go into the Denon.

So you get Oppo DAC -> Denon ADC -> Denon DAC.. Yikes!

[leo2498]

Leo

How are you going into the Denon from the Oppo? Are you using the 7.1 EXT Analog inputs from the analog outputs on the Oppo? If you will use the analog outputs on the Oppo, you do no want the Denon to do anything other then volume control.

I used the dedicated stereo output to listen cd in pure audio option and in the other hand I connected the hdmi2 for movie use(audio only), When I listen my CD I used the dac of the oppo but I see that with the option main+lfe I get more bass output but I wondering if the denon are reconfigured the analog signal to digital in this way.

[stuofsci02]

Leo

How are you going into the Denon from the Oppo? Are you using the 7.1 EXT Analog inputs from the analog outputs on the Oppo? If you will use the analog outputs on the Oppo, you do no want the Denon to do anything other then volume control.

[leo2498]

Hi Stuart,
I been trying some possible scenarios with the oppo but I have a doubt that the manual of the denon not answered. if I put the bass management in the receiver in (LFE+MAIN) Theoretically it will use the sub for low frequency (40 hz and below ) but I wondering if I do this the analog signal could be affect in some way for digital processor or in this case the AVR use some kind of analog filter?

I had to set the distance of my front in the oppo to get the right center image in stereo listen because I’m using its dedicate stereo output, are you set this distance in your oppo too?

[leo2498]

Yes... Glass is the worst.. I didn't know you had a window, but if you are willing to block them it will do wonders...

I thought you would like the Oppo... It is really the bargain of home audio IMO...

Hi Stuart,
yes I didn't tell you about it, I'm sorry but I forget this little thing but maybe the curtain could Help with this reflection point, I post my HT complete en the thread of pictures of you B&W if you want to see it.

in this link I have all the pictures that I took and some of this evolution.

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=leo2498

[stuofsci02]

Hi Stuart,
I have been working with the location of the panels and the best place was in front my glass window behind of the curtain but this is a inaccessible place so I had to put this in the first location that I thought. The sound with the Oppo is unbelievable, big difference in quality audio and the panel although it no located in the best place waoo! 8O it is a big improvement too. I put some pics that I took yesterday, I need to work hard to fit everything and let you know how it is.

Yes... Glass is the worst.. I didn't know you had a window, but if you are willing to block them it will do wonders...

I thought you would like the Oppo... It is really the bargain of home audio IMO...

[leo2498]

Hi Stuart,
I have been working with the location of the panels and the best place was in front my glass window behind of the curtain but this is a inaccessible place so I had to put this in the first location that I thought. The sound with the Oppo is unbelievable, big difference in quality audio and the panel although it no located in the best place waoo! 8O it is a big improvement too. I put some pics that I took yesterday, I need to work hard to fit everything and let you know how it is.

[stuofsci02]

Hi Stuar, right now I used the internal DAC of the denon 3310 because I think that it's better than my cd player and this used the audyssey EQ but I know with the oppo will be another scenario, so I hope it will come tomorrow and let me get the best of both things. I can't wait for it. :lol:

Yeah.. I suggest you go without the Audyssey or at least recalibrate it.

If you calibrated without the panels then the Audyssey will adjust everything based on that room setup. I am not surprised to find it is not at good now... It is time for a TOTAL RECAL! Oh just dump it all together for stereo..

Cheers

[leo2498]

Are you using a room correction with stereo music listening?

Hi Stuart, in this moment I used the internal DAC of the denon 3310 because I think that it's better than my cd player and this used the audyssey EQ but I know with the oppo will be another scenario, so I hope it will come tomorrow and let me get the best of both things. I can't wait for it. :lol:

[leo2498]

One of the keys to great home audio is placement and experimentation. Take your time. It will not happen overnight. Sometimes it can take months or even years to find your personal audio heaven!.

Thanks for the advice, it is true in one night I will not get the best performance.

[stuofsci02]

Ok Thanks, I will try this option when return to my home and let you know, Do I need re calibrated to get better sound? without panels my system sound good but with them not.

Are you using a room correction with stereo music listening?

[madmac]

One of the keys to great home audio is placement and experimentation. Take your time. It will not happen overnight. Sometimes it can take months or even years to find your personal audio heaven!.

[leo2498]

Ok Thanks, I will try this option when return to my home and let you know, Do I need re calibrated to get better sound? without panels my system sound good but with them not.

[stuofsci02]

Take down the back two panels and let me know what you find.

[leo2498]

For sure it is... You just want to be sure you have an amp that can also handle the low impedance ~3 ohm..

My amp is rated 210 watt into 2ohm, so I never have any issues with power even though it is 130 watt into 8 ohms.

Hi Stuart,
the panels arrived today and I put them temporary in the location that I was thinking but the sound was deteriorated, I lose clarity in the highs and I think was unpleasent; what I did wrong ? I need re calibrate my system? any advise is very welcome.

By the way, I bought two 24"x36"x4" and two 24"x24"x2" this few panels could do my room a dead room?

[stuofsci02]

For sure it is... You just want to be sure you have an amp that can also handle the low impedance ~3 ohm..

My amp is rated 210 watt into 2ohm, so I never have any issues with power even though it is 130 watt into 8 ohms.

[leo2498]

many thanks Stuart, I set my system in 75 dB to reference level and I never get this volume so I think that maybe 125 W could be enough power for my system.

[stuofsci02]

Alright...

Maximum normal listening level from my seating position is 80-85 dB with peaks as high as 90 dB.

Cheers

[stuofsci02]

Stuart,
Yes I did, but I wondering if I will go with it I can’t use Audyssey or equivalent room correction SW for HT that actually work good for me, I will test different scenario with the oppo to learn if I need room correction; if I don’t see any improvement with this instead of bass management inside the oppo, It will be a firm candidate for preamp.

p.d How loud you hear your music in your set up? 75dB or more dB? are you using equipment for measurements for knows how was everything?

I will check with my Radioshack SPL meter and get back to you..

Cheers

[leo2498]

Yes I should have been clearer.. Behind each speaker at the midrange height is also important as it will prevent backward radiated sound from coming back to the listener.

I think the side reflection points are very important. I noticed a much more precise sound stage after adding these ones.

Because your seat is at the back wall having panels there also makes sense. For me I have 14 feet behind me, so I did not want anything on the back walls as it would have made the back of the room sound very dead. What I really need back there is diffusers.

P.S. did you look at the parasound P7?

Stuart

Stuart,
Yes I did, but I wondering if I will go with it I can’t use Audyssey or equivalent room correction SW for HT that actually work good for me, I will test different scenario with the oppo to learn if I need room correction; if I don’t see any improvement with this instead of bass management inside the oppo, It will be a firm candidate for preamp.

p.d How loud you hear your music in your set up? 75dB or more dB? are you using equipment for measurements for knows how was everything?

[stuofsci02]

Hi Stuart, thanks again for your help.
What about behind of each speaker, my room is very small and I think that 4 panel for now it will be enough (that said ATS simulator in his web), I bought two of 24x36x4 Inches and two 24x24x2 Inches but if I need more I will buy this.

This could be a option for location, what do you think?

Yes I should have been clearer.. Behind each speaker at the midrange height is also important as it will prevent backward radiated sound from coming back to the listener.

I think the side reflection points are very important. I noticed a much more precise sound stage after adding these ones.

Because your seat is at the back wall having panels there also makes sense. For me I have 14 feet behind me, so I did not want anything on the back walls as it would have made the back of the room sound very dead. What I really need back there is diffusers.

P.S. did you look at the parasound P7?

Stuart

[leo2498]

Hi Stuart, thanks again for your help.
What about behind of each speaker, my room is very small and I think that 4 panel for now it will be enough (that said ATS simulator in his web), I bought two of 24x36x4 Inches and two 24x24x2 Inches but if I need more I will buy this.

This could be a option for location, what do you think?

[stuofsci02]

Leo,

In general the accepted way to place panels is to center them at first reflection points. The easiest way to do this, is to sit exactly in the position you listen and have someone (wife, girlfriend, mistress.... Just not all three) slide a hand held mirror along all the walls. Anywhere you can see a mid range driver (from any of your speakers) is a spot for panel.

When I did my room I only did first refection points for my main speakers, since my focus is on stereo music. You also do not want to get so many panels that your room becomes overdamped.

This is what I ended up with..





That preamp looks nice.. I have looked at it before.. But have you considered the Parasound P7? It is a full analog preamp for 7.1. To use that you would run the 7.1 analog outputs from your Oppo to the 7.1 inputs on the P7. All DAC would be done in the Oppo.

Cheers.

[leo2498]

Leo,

You are quite different then most audio guys who are always looking to make improvements or try other things .

If you plan this to be your last upgrade then you really really need to have the proper front end. I think you said you got the Oppo 95, so that is a good start, but IMO you definitely need to have a proper preamp or pre/pro if you invest that kind of money in the amp.

Of course there always has to be a compromise unless money is unlimited.

That said, I have had my Emotiva preamp for 2 years and have been very happy. When I am ready I am hoping to add something like this to my setup.

http://www.highendaudioexchange.ca/products.shtml?view=14

The Emotiva stuff sells itself on the used market (especially when you are outside the US). So probably it costs me almost nothing to experiment and find out what I am missing..

Cheers!

Stuart

stuofsci02, yeap I'm in a dilemma but the money is the biggest problem jajaja it is not unlimited. I'm asking to my dealer borrow a rotel stereo preamp when I will have in my hands the oppo to see how it sound with both(denon and rotel). I agreed with you about the front end but I thought maybe best amp is more important that a best pre amp but I see that I was wrong about this.

I can’t wait for the oppo !!! by the way, the panels come this Monday I wondering if I could bother you with some advise in locations of them?

thanks a lot for all your time. :T

p.d I have been looking this preamp since you advised me of this:

http://www.parasound.com/halo/jc2bp.php

[stuofsci02]

stuofsci02, I was been tempted for the emotiva gear but I read some comments from people that own them and they really like a lot but with some time finally they changed it for a spensive high end gear so I thought if I would put this kind of money in this then I have need to be the last time because and in a near future I will not know if I would buy this type of toy.

I need be wise with my purchase because it will be the last one in maybe 10 or 20 year.

Leo,

You are quite different then most audio guys who are always looking to make improvements or try other things .

If you plan this to be your last upgrade then you really really need to have the proper front end. I think you said you got the Oppo 95, so that is a good start, but IMO you definitely need to have a proper preamp or pre/pro if you invest that kind of money in the amp.

Of course there always has to be a compromise unless money is unlimited.

That said, I have had my Emotiva preamp for 2 years and have been very happy. When I am ready I am hoping to add something like this to my setup.

http://www.highendaudioexchange.ca/products.shtml?view=14

The Emotiva stuff sells itself on the used market (especially when you are outside the US). So probably it costs me almost nothing to experiment and find out what I am missing..

Cheers!

Stuart

[leo2498]

Leo,

If you would go for an Emotiva XPA-3, why not go for an XPA-5 for an extra $170.

Kal Rubinson (who frequents this forum) did a review for Stereophile last year. If you have not seen it:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-51

You could start there and then home audition other amps like the CA-5300 against it. Based on my experience with Emotiva amps, I think you will be quite surprised. I use a UPA-1 which is basically an monoblock version of the XPA-5 on my HTM3S with excellent results.

In fact I have even used my UPA-2 (which is now called the UPA-200 for some reason) on my 804S, and was pleasantly surprised..

Emotiva also has their UMC-1 pre/pro (I have this also) on sale for $499.. Not an expensive experiment to try it as it can always be resold. I bought this as a temporary solution that has become permanent as it has been quite good.... ops:

Their reference pre/pro called the XMC-1 is about to be released.. They are taking pre orders now.

stuofsci02, I was been tempted for the emotiva gear but I read some comments from people that own them and they really like a lot but with some time finally they changed it for a spensive high end gear so I thought if I would put this kind of money in this then I have need to be the last time because and in a near future I will not know if I would buy this type of toy.

I need be wise with my purchase because it will be the last one in maybe 10 or 20 year.