DIY Dual Subwoofer Suggestions

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  • TEK
    replied
    You do know that Rythmiks offers DIY solution with driver/amp that you may order and then build the box yourself?
    I habe two of their 15" subs buildt as DIY.
    You are of course also aware that they are servo sub - so that have som positive and negative sides.

    I have a basement that is 4,5m x 7m with dampened rooof.
    I have two Rhytmiks 15" and one Aurasound NS18 based sub.
    Here is my experience.

    One Rhytmiks was to little dor the room if playing loud. It ended up «pumping air». I could see/heare the driver move, but it resultet in a flapping sound and not bass output.
    On «normal» listening volumes it worked good.
    My 18" Aurasound kicks ass of Rythmiks at any time when it comes to real deep base (25hz and down I would say, you know - that point where you discover that your picture is not mounted decent or that your wall own starts to make noises).
    However on base quality at normal listening levels and not to the very lowest tones, the Rythmiks beats the Aurasound sub.

    Usong two Rythmiks subs gabe a very good result - going low enough down and great accuracy. Really happy with them.
    Then - adding my old Aurasound 18" to the mix gave a ideal result as that third source point flatter out the pikes I got witj two.
    So I now have two 15 Rythmiks in the front and my 18" Aurasound in the back of the room - giving a great result.
    But I also get a great result that goes low enough with just the two 15" subs.

    However, having 3 subs will make it easier to get a even bass respons. You should also check out Rew. There is a function to simulate your room with different number of sources at different locations and see how they stack up.

    Of you are mainly into music I would have focused on two 15" Rythmiks subs. Three 15 Rythmiks would probably be perfect!
    If you are mainly into movie I would focus on a singel 18" driver with a powerful amp.

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    replied
    Originally posted by Bear
    Baltic Birch is my minimum material that I'm willing to work with personally. MDF inevitably gives me problems from a work product standpoint, and more importantly, from a health standpoint. It's not MDF cheap, but it's easily affordable versus the cost of my time. I'm on a beer budget, but it's closer to craft beer than Natty Light.

    I snagged a combo deal from PE a while ago for a 250W plate amp, 8" sub, and a cabinet. I destroyed the cabinet trying to get EZ Lock inserts put in place.
    Yeah, same here on the budget side.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bear
    replied
    Baltic Birch is my minimum material that I'm willing to work with personally. MDF inevitably gives me problems from a work product standpoint, and more importantly, from a health standpoint. It's not MDF cheap, but it's easily affordable versus the cost of my time. I'm on a beer budget, but it's closer to craft beer than Natty Light.

    I snagged a combo deal from PE a while ago for a 250W plate amp, 8" sub, and a cabinet. I destroyed the cabinet trying to get EZ Lock inserts put in place.

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    replied
    [QUOTE=Bear;637275]Yep. Specifications sell. There are multiple graveyards of companies who thought that they could go against human nature and retrain an entire market about what should matter.

    One clarification, though: that 100W/90% efficient amp would deliver 90W to the terminals of the driver. The bulk of the losses happen in the driver motor itself in converting electricity to mechanical energy. Picking up a theme, there's a really strong engineering reason for why subwoofer manufacturers hype the size of their magnets.



    CSS has a great reputation, but I don't have any stick time with their products. One thing I can observe is that the sub and two passive radiators add up to $545, so the question is whether a flat pack cabinet is worth $200 to you. Personally, I am not a fan of MDF cabinets (I re-learned that lesson again on a flat pack recently), but lots of people are more careful with raw materials than I seem to be capable of doing.

    From a modeling standpoint, it can soak up a ton of power (~100W) before Xmax becomes a concern in a 2cf (~56L) box. F3 will be around 23Hz with 950g of total weight (+850g ea.). It may be a little flabby for music, but it would more than I could ever use for HT, let alone as a pair. YMMV.[/Thanks.

    Thanks, that helps. The above explanation does as well. Much to ponder. I don't think the cabinet is worth 200 to me. I also would prefer to make my sub cabinets from Baltic birch if possible, and assuming you would agree that it would be ideal.

    I'm going to put together my thoughts on your previous suggestions and summarize what I would like to build. If you don't mind, I would like to run it by you for your thoughts.

    Thanks again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bear
    replied
    Originally posted by rick844
    Interesting. So a 1000 watt amp is only applying 9 watts net to the motor to move it? So a 100 watt amp is only applying 1 watt net to the motor to drive it? If this is true, which i have no knowledge to argue against, this changes my entire understanding of amps and speakers. So if this is true, why not simply rate the amps based on net output? Is it due to the commercialization and sales jargon to get a customer to get more excited about one amp over another? I need to process this all a bit.
    Yep. Specifications sell. There are multiple graveyards of companies who thought that they could go against human nature and retrain an entire market about what should matter.

    One clarification, though: that 100W/90% efficient amp would deliver 90W to the terminals of the driver. The bulk of the losses happen in the driver motor itself in converting electricity to mechanical energy. Picking up a theme, there's a really strong engineering reason for why subwoofer manufacturers hype the size of their magnets.

    Originally posted by rick844
    Bear, I'm curious about your thoughts on this kit.

    https://www.css-audio.com/online-sto...Kit-p112666755
    CSS has a great reputation, but I don't have any stick time with their products. One thing I can observe is that the sub and two passive radiators add up to $545, so the question is whether a flat pack cabinet is worth $200 to you. Personally, I am not a fan of MDF cabinets (I re-learned that lesson again on a flat pack recently), but lots of people are more careful with raw materials than I seem to be capable of doing.

    From a modeling standpoint, it can soak up a ton of power (~100W) before Xmax becomes a concern in a 2cf (~56L) box. F3 will be around 23Hz with 950g of total weight (+850g ea.). It may be a little flabby for music, but it would more than I could ever use for HT, let alone as a pair. YMMV.

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    replied
    Originally posted by Bear
    See above about those pesky electrical pixies. Those big peak numbers are more marketing than practical engineering. I didn't even include actual electrical efficiency in those numbers (A/B typically caps out in the 50% range; class D might be in the 85% - 90% range). A plate amp with a smooth face (no heat sinking visible) and big motor subwoofers in close proximity is a thermal curiosity. I am often wrong, but I have a healthy dose of skepticism around the absurd amplifier ratings that get tossed around.

    Think about it a slightly different way: a final generation 100W incandescent lightbulb converts >95W of power into heat. Those reached about 5% efficiency before the major manufacturers all closed down their production lines. Think about how much heat one of those produced. A 1000W amplifier that is 90% efficient will generate a similar heat load. Then let's look at the speaker drivers themselves:

    Efficiency and sensitivity conversion - loudspeaker percent and dB per watt and meter dB/W/m loudspeaker efficiency versus sensitivity vs speaker sensitivity 1 watt = 2,83 volt box chart - sengpielaudio Eberhard Sengpiel


    That site is at least documenting their sources, and the numbers appear plausible (my engineering skills were exhausted a while ago -- I'm just a hobbyist). They are listing a 90dB driver as being about 0.5% efficient. Let's be charitable and round-up to 1%.... So, that 1000W amplifier at 90% efficiency at full-throttle is producing 900W that go into the driver and 100W of heat. Of that 900W of power into the driver, 9W is then converted into sound, and 891W are turned into heat. So, for a 1000W amplifier, you will get almost 991W of heat (really, more than given the charitable rounding....). This is why speaker drivers, especially subwoofers use big magnets. They act like a thermal soak to absorb heat, and then release it much more slowly into the box, and then the box will even more slowly release it into the room.

    So, getting back to a theme.... A good dedicated amplifier may produce 200 WATTS of power. An external class D amp may produce 200 Watts of power. And a subwoofer plate amp may be rated at 1000 watts of power. Grab a Kill-a-Watt meter (or similar) from your favorite home center or hardware store, and you can see what the current draw really is vs that is claimed.
    Bear, I'm curious about your thoughts on this kit.

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    replied
    Originally posted by Bear
    See above about those pesky electrical pixies. Those big peak numbers are more marketing than practical engineering. I didn't even include actual electrical efficiency in those numbers (A/B typically caps out in the 50% range; class D might be in the 85% - 90% range). A plate amp with a smooth face (no heat sinking visible) and big motor subwoofers in close proximity is a thermal curiosity. I am often wrong, but I have a healthy dose of skepticism around the absurd amplifier ratings that get tossed around.

    Think about it a slightly different way: a final generation 100W incandescent lightbulb converts >95W of power into heat. Those reached about 5% efficiency before the major manufacturers all closed down their production lines. Think about how much heat one of those produced. A 1000W amplifier that is 90% efficient will generate a similar heat load. Then let's look at the speaker drivers themselves:

    Efficiency and sensitivity conversion - loudspeaker percent and dB per watt and meter dB/W/m loudspeaker efficiency versus sensitivity vs speaker sensitivity 1 watt = 2,83 volt box chart - sengpielaudio Eberhard Sengpiel


    That site is at least documenting their sources, and the numbers appear plausible (my engineering skills were exhausted a while ago -- I'm just a hobbyist). They are listing a 90dB driver as being about 0.5% efficient. Let's be charitable and round-up to 1%.... So, that 1000W amplifier at 90% efficiency at full-throttle is producing 900W that go into the driver and 100W of heat. Of that 900W of power into the driver, 9W is then converted into sound, and 891W are turned into heat. So, for a 1000W amplifier, you will get almost 991W of heat (really, more than given the charitable rounding....). This is why speaker drivers, especially subwoofers use big magnets. They act like a thermal soak to absorb heat, and then release it much more slowly into the box, and then the box will even more slowly release it into the room.

    So, getting back to a theme.... A good dedicated amplifier may produce 200 WATTS of power. An external class D amp may produce 200 Watts of power. And a subwoofer plate amp may be rated at 1000 watts of power. Grab a Kill-a-Watt meter (or similar) from your favorite home center or hardware store, and you can see what the current draw really is vs that is claimed.
    Interesting. So a 1000 watt amp is only applying 9 watts net to the motor to move it? So a 100 watt amp is only applying 1 watt net to the motor to drive it? If this is true, which i have no knowledge to argue against, this changes my entire understanding of amps and speakers. So if this is true, why not simply rate the amps based on net output? Is it due to the commercialization and sales jargon to get a customer to get more excited about one amp over another? I need to process this all a bit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bear
    replied
    Originally posted by rick844
    Most subs I'm comparing to such as SVS and Rythmik as well as HSU all offer amps that are 500 to 800 RMS with peaks to 1500 or 2k. They do this to drive small cabinet lower frequencies exactly as you have explained. My concern is since most amps that drive similar advertised power are upwards of 500 plus, one begins to wonder if the value is there to DIY. Now, if I can achieve the same or better performance to that of SVS SB3000, HSU ULs, or Rythmik F12 for half or less cost, then I will jump in with both feet and build away. I'm struggling with spending 8/10 the cost for an unknown. I want dual subs so I need to stay on the smaller side, and I'm ok with trading off super low freq.
    See above about those pesky electrical pixies. Those big peak numbers are more marketing than practical engineering. I didn't even include actual electrical efficiency in those numbers (A/B typically caps out in the 50% range; class D might be in the 85% - 90% range). A plate amp with a smooth face (no heat sinking visible) and big motor subwoofers in close proximity is a thermal curiosity. I am often wrong, but I have a healthy dose of skepticism around the absurd amplifier ratings that get tossed around.

    Think about it a slightly different way: a final generation 100W incandescent lightbulb converts >95W of power into heat. Those reached about 5% efficiency before the major manufacturers all closed down their production lines. Think about how much heat one of those produced. A 1000W amplifier that is 90% efficient will generate a similar heat load. Then let's look at the speaker drivers themselves:

    Efficiency and sensitivity conversion - loudspeaker percent and dB per watt and meter dB/W/m loudspeaker efficiency versus sensitivity vs speaker sensitivity 1 watt = 2,83 volt box chart - sengpielaudio Eberhard Sengpiel


    That site is at least documenting their sources, and the numbers appear plausible (my engineering skills were exhausted a while ago -- I'm just a hobbyist). They are listing a 90dB driver as being about 0.5% efficient. Let's be charitable and round-up to 1%.... So, that 1000W amplifier at 90% efficiency at full-throttle is producing 900W that go into the driver and 100W of heat. Of that 900W of power into the driver, 9W is then converted into sound, and 891W are turned into heat. So, for a 1000W amplifier, you will get almost 991W of heat (really, more than given the charitable rounding....). This is why speaker drivers, especially subwoofers use big magnets. They act like a thermal soak to absorb heat, and then release it much more slowly into the box, and then the box will even more slowly release it into the room.

    So, getting back to a theme.... A good dedicated amplifier may produce 200 WATTS of power. An external class D amp may produce 200 Watts of power. And a subwoofer plate amp may be rated at 1000 watts of power. Grab a Kill-a-Watt meter (or similar) from your favorite home center or hardware store, and you can see what the current draw really is vs that is claimed.

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    replied
    Originally posted by Bear
    This depends entirely on what's motivating the items in the room. Is it transferred mechanical energy from the subs? If so, then investing in some "feet" (e.g., isolator pucks, spikes or even just some silicone bumpers) may solve the problem. If it is from the audio wave itself, then new subs won't solve that problem and may make it worse.



    This depends upon the bass alignment and SPL target. Decent-quality sealed subs in a Qtc of around 0.707 will generally yield an F3 in the 40 - 45Hz range for anything below a 15" driver. With EQ, a long stroke and enough power, this can be extended lower. This is where physics grabs hold. To get a 10" sealed subwoofer to be flat to 20Hz requires a long stroke driver (piston volume) and a LOT of power (this is why Velodyne and JL Audio subs come with ridiculous power ratings).



    But let's talk about that power, because magical electrical pixies don't really exist. Unless you've got dedicated, high current circuits, then few amplifiers are really going to be able to hit 1000+ watts RMS. A 15 AMP circuit can generally deliver a total of about 1800 watts (2.4hp) to all loads on the circuit with standard North American 110/120v power (240v can deliver 4x the power). If your subwoofer amp is pulling 1000 watts, then everything else on that circuit only has about 800w to work with. So, where people are talking about multiple 2000w amplifier channels, they either have dedicated wiring, they are an electrical fire waiting to happen, or those amplifiers may have smaller "amps" than what Mr. Ohm once observed.
    Most subs I'm comparing to such as SVS and Rythmik as well as HSU all offer amps that are 500 to 800 RMS with peaks to 1500 or 2k. They do this to drive small cabinet lower frequencies exactly as you have explained. My concern is since most amps that drive similar advertised power are upwards of 500 plus, one begins to wonder if the value is there to DIY. Now, if I can achieve the same or better performance to that of SVS SB3000, HSU ULs, or Rythmik F12 for half or less cost, then I will jump in with both feet and build away. I'm struggling with spending 8/10 the cost for an unknown. I want dual subs so I need to stay on the smaller side, and I'm ok with trading off super low freq.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bear
    replied
    Originally posted by morbo
    I have a pair of Rythmik 12" using the older TC sounds aluminum drivers, sealed in about 2cu ft. They are very very good, especially if you don't need them to play above 100hz. Some of the newer models may play higher just as well; the ones I have use a fixed lowpass that makes them hard to use as bass bins. As pure subs they're great though, as clean as anything I've ever heard, and a pair in a small-medium room is overkill for music and plenty for HT.

    I have to be honest though; I have been thinking lately that dual-opposed push-push subs, even with lesser woofers and no servo, may work better in my room. The construction of my listening room is pretty flimsy, and I get far more buzzing and rattling from the subs 'activating' various things in the room than I get distortion from the subs. I suspect that putting less mechanical vibration through the floor and exciting the structure less would make a bigger difference than dropping distortion from very low to vanishingly low. I hope to test this soon, when I do I will report back.

    I would consider dual subs with smaller dual-opposed woofers. I suspect something like 4 Dayton RSS315HF, dual-opposed in a pair of sealed or PR boxes, would outperform a pair of rythmik 15s, at least in a room as excitable as mine. YMMV.
    This depends entirely on what's motivating the items in the room. Is it transferred mechanical energy from the subs? If so, then investing in some "feet" (e.g., isolator pucks, spikes or even just some silicone bumpers) may solve the problem. If it is from the audio wave itself, then new subs won't solve that problem and may make it worse.

    Originally posted by rick844
    Interearing. Curious if you guys think they would also kick the chest so to speak similar to that of rythmiks. I was watching videos last night of even f12s and they sounded amazing.
    This depends upon the bass alignment and SPL target. Decent-quality sealed subs in a Qtc of around 0.707 will generally yield an F3 in the 40 - 45Hz range for anything below a 15" driver. With EQ, a long stroke and enough power, this can be extended lower. This is where physics grabs hold. To get a 10" sealed subwoofer to be flat to 20Hz requires a long stroke driver (piston volume) and a LOT of power (this is why Velodyne and JL Audio subs come with ridiculous power ratings).



    But let's talk about that power, because magical electrical pixies don't really exist. Unless you've got dedicated, high current circuits, then few amplifiers are really going to be able to hit 1000+ watts RMS. A 15 AMP circuit can generally deliver a total of about 1800 watts (2.4hp) to all loads on the circuit with standard North American 110/120v power (240v can deliver 4x the power). If your subwoofer amp is pulling 1000 watts, then everything else on that circuit only has about 800w to work with. So, where people are talking about multiple 2000w amplifier channels, they either have dedicated wiring, they are an electrical fire waiting to happen, or those amplifiers may have smaller "amps" than what Mr. Ohm once observed.

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    replied
    Originally posted by morbo
    I have a pair of Rythmik 12" using the older TC sounds aluminum drivers, sealed in about 2cu ft. They are very very good, especially if you don't need them to play above 100hz. Some of the newer models may play higher just as well; the ones I have use a fixed lowpass that makes them hard to use as bass bins. As pure subs they're great though, as clean as anything I've ever heard, and a pair in a small-medium room is overkill for music and plenty for HT.

    I have to be honest though; I have been thinking lately that dual-opposed push-push subs, even with lesser woofers and no servo, may work better in my room. The construction of my listening room is pretty flimsy, and I get far more buzzing and rattling from the subs 'activating' various things in the room than I get distortion from the subs. I suspect that putting less mechanical vibration through the floor and exciting the structure less would make a bigger difference than dropping distortion from very low to vanishingly low. I hope to test this soon, when I do I will report back.

    I would consider dual subs with smaller dual-opposed woofers. I suspect something like 4 Dayton RSS315HF, dual-opposed in a pair of sealed or PR boxes, would outperform a pair of rythmik 15s, at least in a room as excitable as mine. YMMV.
    Interearing. Curious if you guys think they would also kick the chest so to speak similar to that of rythmiks. I was watching videos last night of even f12s and they sounded amazing.

    Leave a comment:


  • morbo
    replied
    I have a pair of Rythmik 12" using the older TC sounds aluminum drivers, sealed in about 2cu ft. They are very very good, especially if you don't need them to play above 100hz. Some of the newer models may play higher just as well; the ones I have use a fixed lowpass that makes them hard to use as bass bins. As pure subs they're great though, as clean as anything I've ever heard, and a pair in a small-medium room is overkill for music and plenty for HT.

    I have to be honest though; I have been thinking lately that dual-opposed push-push subs, even with lesser woofers and no servo, may work better in my room. The construction of my listening room is pretty flimsy, and I get far more buzzing and rattling from the subs 'activating' various things in the room than I get distortion from the subs. I suspect that putting less mechanical vibration through the floor and exciting the structure less would make a bigger difference than dropping distortion from very low to vanishingly low. I hope to test this soon, when I do I will report back.

    I would consider dual subs with smaller dual-opposed woofers. I suspect something like 4 Dayton RSS315HF, dual-opposed in a pair of sealed or PR boxes, would outperform a pair of rythmik 15s, at least in a room as excitable as mine. YMMV.

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    replied
    Originally posted by Bear
    PE has a few of these, not just the 1kW (there are a bunch). You could also look at an ICEPower option at PE -- there are several there, too. Finally, note that it is possible to drive two subwoofer units from one plate amp. You just need to get the wiring right (e.g., don't wire two 4ohm modules in parallel).
    Understood, thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bear
    replied
    Originally posted by rick844
    Thanks bear, very informative. Any recommendations on finding good plate amps? I haven't been able to find much on PE other than the Dayton and at 1000 watts it seems a bit pricey relative to their reviews.

    I do have a crown xls drive core amp running my ported 15 now, so I may be able to use that for one sub.
    PE has a few of these, not just the 1kW (there are a bunch). You could also look at an ICEPower option at PE -- there are several there, too. Finally, note that it is possible to drive two subwoofer units from one plate amp. You just need to get the wiring right (e.g., don't wire two 4ohm modules in parallel unless it can handle a 2ohm load -- most can't).

    ICEPower:

    And then chain a 200A module to get to 2x200W.


    There are a handful of wiring harnesses that are also required. Ghent Audio makes cases for these, and that also sells kits.


    But if you have a couple of spare amp channels in the 200W range, then don't be afraid to use those. Not only is there nothing magical about plate amps, they are often of inferior quality than a full-range amp channel.

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    replied
    Originally posted by Bear
    I'd go sealed for your first time out. I'd go with the drivers on the sides. If you go front and back, then the rear driver will get even more reinforcement from the wall than you will already get (typically +6dB in a standard room, frequency and room dependent). Corner loading is even stronger (~+12dB, less transmission losses into the structure).

    You can go smaller than the dimensions I proposed, but that requires knowing the drivers and some box modeling. All of these fall prey to Hoffman's Iron Law. A simple summary of that is that for a given amount of low bass, you will trade amplifier power for box size. PE used to have a kit with dual 12s, but that seems to have died somewhere along the way. For about a decade, I ran with this type of set-up using S-80s from NHT's liquidation sale. The outer dimensions on those were approx. 12x15x25 going off of memory (they did not survive Hurricane Harvey).

    You can see my current subwoofer box build here:


    It's designed for the SW223BD03 in a bit sub-optimal of a cabinet (24L). I'll convert my original Helios monitor cabinet to another subwoofer, but that's further down the road.

    If you want inspiration, then take a look at this one:


    A pair of the 12" Rythmiks would perform less well than what I proposed earlier -- but you would need to dial-in the fully DIY package using a microphone (UMIK-1 from miniDSP if you don't have one) and Room EQ Wizard (free app; aka REW).
    Thanks bear, very informative. Any recommendations on finding good plate amps? I haven't been able to find much on PE other than the Dayton and at 1000 watts it seems a bit pricey relative to their reviews.

    I do have a crown xls drive core amp running my ported 15 now, so I may be able to use that for one sub.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bear
    replied
    Originally posted by rick844
    Also, which way would the drivers face? One out and one towards the wall, or both facing to the sides?
    I'd go sealed for your first time out. I'd go with the drivers on the sides. If you go front and back, then the rear driver will get even more reinforcement from the wall than you will already get (typically +6dB in a standard room, frequency and room dependent). Corner loading is even stronger (~+12dB, less transmission losses into the structure).

    You can go smaller than the dimensions I proposed, but that requires knowing the drivers and some box modeling. All of these fall prey to Hoffman's Iron Law. A simple summary of that is that for a given amount of low bass, you will trade amplifier power for box size. PE used to have a kit with dual 12s, but that seems to have died somewhere along the way. For about a decade, I ran with this type of set-up using S-80s from NHT's liquidation sale. The outer dimensions on those were approx. 12x15x25 going off of memory (they did not survive Hurricane Harvey).

    You can see my current subwoofer box build here:


    It's designed for the SW223BD03 in a bit sub-optimal of a cabinet (24L). I'll convert my original Helios monitor cabinet to another subwoofer, but that's further down the road.

    If you want inspiration, then take a look at this one:


    A pair of the 12" Rythmiks would perform less well than what I proposed earlier -- but you would need to dial-in the fully DIY package using a microphone (UMIK-1 from miniDSP if you don't have one) and Room EQ Wizard (free app; aka REW).

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    replied
    Also, which way would the drivers face? One out and one towards the wall, or both facing to the sides?

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    replied
    Originally posted by Bear
    What do you mean by "performance"? Are you talking about distortion? "Speed"? SPL?

    One thing to consider is that dual 10" drivers will have almost as much cone area as a single 15". Dual 12" drivers will have about +25% more cone area. Total piston volume will be a function of stroke and cone area, and that may tip the scale in favor of the 15", but only at ridiculous SPL levels. Dual 12" mounted opposite each other (aka "dual opposed subwoofers") will significantly reduce cabinet vibrations.

    IF you are looking to meet/beat a pair of 15" sealed subs, consider something along the lines of:
    2x 2x12" Drivers: $600 (~$150/ea)
    MiniDSP DDRC24: $450
    2 sheets of Baltic Birch 18mm Ply: $100
    Amplifier: $500+
    Cabinet stuffing: Varies

    Build two units 15" wide x 15" deep x 24" high. This should yield something in the 50L net volume, depending upon driver volume and bracing. Double-up the walls (baffles) on each side where the drivers will be mounted. Depending upon how loud and how low, you may need 1000w+ to do what you want to do. For most people, though, a set-up like the above with about 200W per unit will be enough to drive you out of the room, if not the house.
    Thanks Bear. That sounds like a great idea. I already have an amp that may support 250 watts per channel. So, do you have a box design i could use for this? Also, do you have a 12 inch driver you recommend? In this dual opposed, would you do it sealed? Sounds like you were suggesting that. If so, I like it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bear
    replied
    Originally posted by rick844
    To clarify, i want to build subs that meet or beat the size and performance of say 2 sb 3000's from SVS or the likes of two 15 inch sealed rythmiks
    What do you mean by "performance"? Are you talking about distortion? "Speed"? SPL?

    One thing to consider is that dual 10" drivers will have almost as much cone area as a single 15". Dual 12" drivers will have about +25% more cone area. Total piston volume will be a function of stroke and cone area, and that may tip the scale in favor of the 15", but only at ridiculous SPL levels. Dual 12" mounted opposite each other (aka "dual opposed subwoofers") will significantly reduce cabinet vibrations.

    IF you are looking to meet/beat a pair of 15" sealed subs, consider something along the lines of:
    2x 2x12" Drivers: $600 (~$150/ea)
    MiniDSP DDRC24: $450
    2 sheets of Baltic Birch 18mm Ply: $100
    Amplifier: $500+
    Cabinet stuffing: Varies

    Build two units 15" wide x 15" deep x 24" high. This should yield something in the 50L net volume, depending upon driver volume and bracing. Double-up the walls (baffles) on each side where the drivers will be mounted. Depending upon how loud and how low, you may need 1000w+ to do what you want to do. For most people, though, a set-up like the above with about 200W per unit will be enough to drive you out of the room, if not the house.

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    replied
    To clarify, i want to build subs that meet or beat the size and performance of say 2 sb 3000's from SVS or the likes of two 15 inch sealed rythmiks

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    replied
    Originally posted by chrisn
    That rooms almost a cube, so positioning the subwoofers might be tricky. Parts Express has these on sale, ending today, which should work sealed:





    I recently finished a pair of coffee table subs using these B stock drivers, which I think are available new: https://www.diysoundgroup.com/buyout...b-b-stock.html
    Thanks. I'm not savvy enough to design my own box and I also don't have line of sight to amps that put out 600 to 800 rms. Do you have any suggestions for enclosure size and amps?

    Leave a comment:


  • chrisn
    replied
    That rooms almost a cube, so positioning the subwoofers might be tricky. Parts Express has these on sale, ending today, which should work sealed:





    I recently finished a pair of coffee table subs using these B stock drivers, which I think are available new: https://www.diysoundgroup.com/buyout...b-b-stock.html

    Leave a comment:


  • rick844
    started a topic DIY Dual Subwoofer Suggestions

    DIY Dual Subwoofer Suggestions

    Similar to a thread I started before, I have decided that I would like to build/buy dual subs for my home theater. Room is fairly large at 15 x 15 x 13 height where the back of the room opens into a kitchen area of similar size. Currently I have a 15 inch sub with a 600 watt amp which does well, but can be boom and also vague at times. I'm looking for full dynamic subs that are small enough to flank my TV stand next to my Anthology towers.

    I prefer sealed based on research and other suggestions on here, but I'm having trouble finding a driver and plate amp setup that can compete watts wise and price wise to the offerings of HSU and Rythmik.

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If there is a lower cost option to the 2k+ that a Rythmik or SVS solution, I am all ears.
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