Wavecor BlieSMa Ardent

[neuro]

Wavecor SW223, check. Accuton C90-6-079, check. Scanspeak 6640, …, Scanspeak…? Apparently I can’t make things too easy on myself. Also, the Bliesma was on sale for black Friday.

After 3.5 years collecting drivers they are all in house, so time to order crossover components. Is it reasonable to expect that I can just pad the T34B down further than the 6640? The T34B looks to be 4-5 dB more sensitive.

When I plug the V2 Wavecor Ardent values into VituixCAD, it shows a filter network where the midrange is not centered. Is that expected?

I'm using HiFiCompass FR and ZR data for the 6640 and C90, and Audioxpress data for the SW223BD02. Could it be that when measured in the real enclosure, bumps and rolloffs of the real world response line up to counteract the dip and peak that are predicted in my sim?

Just hoping for a sanity check before I order crossover parts.

Attached images are the reference crossover design, my Vituix schematic, and my Vituix results. I'm trying to sim the know good 6640 version correctly so that I can sub in the T34B response and check whether simply increasing the L-pad should work.

[Jonasz]

Well, you send me the Bliesmas and I send you a pair of 6640.

[Evil Twin]

I have access to all the original measured data as well as a VituixCAD 1 transfer of the crossover.

In a few days I can check all of the data and rebuild the crossover in VituixCAD 2.

I also have pairs of the T34A and T34B... if you are not in a huge rush, I can get measured data and adjust the crossover.


What I suggest is that you wait for an initial follow on response and update in a few days, and then we can consider the best approach to complete your HF crossover network.

I think there is some problem with the data you are using or the data entry - simply because this is a measured response of the speaker system...


This is an in room measurement at 1.5 meters with long gating and 1/6 octave filtering.




The issues below 150Hz are room modes at the setup position.

[neuro]

That is a most generous offer Darth. Of course I will wait for follow on.

I agree that there is a problem with either my gathered data or my use of Vituix. I have found your response curves for the 6640 and C90 but not yet for the SW223BD02. If I find that I can update my sim with your data. I have much higher faith in your measurement than in my sim, so clearly I'm doing something wrong thus far.

[Evil Twin]

Doing data from a simulation is very difficult-- you would have to setup the parameters for the driver correctly in terms of modeling the baffle step and using an SPL trace of the published data.

And of course, you need impedance data taken from the driver in the actual enclosure volume, not in an IB situation. This is more of an issue for the midrange, as it may be operating closer to the driver Fb, which is variable depending on the enclosure sizing.

Another complicating factor is time offsets- it's quite mandatory to measure the effective offsets of the acoustic centers of the driver, and include that in the crossover model.

BTW, though I believe only two slightly different versions of the crossover BOM were published, differing in some cases mainly by how specific values were realized in combination, there were 5 iterations of the design overall.

After this is completed I would have no problems sharing the data and files with you.


I have a medical transport task tomorrow, but I should be able to get back to this the following day...

[Evil Twin]

For your reference, this is a "voiced" version of the crossover to achieve a slight down tilt done with VituixCAD 1






This was done for the SW223BD02 version of the woofer. The set which I built, that was measured and shown above, and is very flat, was demonstrated to Ergo with and without a voicing filter as described in the separate post on that topic, and the joint opinion of all, including the current owner of the set, is that they prefer it for pretty much all program material with the voicing filter. This response profile is similar.

The dip in the response around 4kHz is due to a cabinet diffraction cancellation issue which only shows up directly on axis; it resolves even just slightly off axis.

[Evil Twin]

Drivers in cabinets

To round out your perspective a bit further, here are plots of the drivers measured in the cabinets, individually. The woofer plot is for both woofers wired in series, as they would be in the finished configuration.

[neuro]

Excellent, thanks!
With those responses, my sim of the 6640 BD02 Wavecor Ardent is much closer to the real response. I tweaked the Wavecor response level by eye because I'm not sure what absolute level the graph is referenced to. Otherwise I just swapped in the new FR curves.

[Evil Twin]

I am in the process of building up a test cabinet/baffle for the BlieSMa tweeters.

Now I understand why some shops seem to have a small army of droids around- I have more test enclosures now on hand than most people have fingers...

[JonMarsh]

And for those who might be curious, or interested, Solen has just gone live listing the BlieSMa T25A-6 and T25B-6, though only "available on backorder".

Looks like a nice part for a three way, or a small driver two way. Maybe something like the rumored "Darth Modula"...

[Bear]

And for those who might be curious, or interested, Solen has just gone live listing the BlieSMa T25A-6 and T25B-6, though only "available on backorder".

Looks like a nice part for a three way, or a small driver two way. Maybe something like the rumored "Darth Modula"...

We might need to get a moderator to move this to the interesting drivers thread...

The as-delivered price point isn't as good as one might have hoped given that Solen's shipping rates are ... unfriendly. However, I think we're all confident that the performance will exceed the price point.

[JonMarsh]

I'm guessing than anyone following this thread has noticed that they are now talking about the possibility of May deliveries. I guess this would also hinge on the shops being working- my last follow up on my second pair of AS168 from Solen indicated that they were in transit from Germany, but it doesn't seem like Solen has much in the way of day to day operations right now...


Also, after following up with another forum member, it looks like the stock of NOS Accuton C79's has pretty much dried up. We'll be looking at the possibility of adapting the C90-6-724 to this configuration for him- I'm also considering a DA25 tweeter option on the crossover. For those for whom that is not "special" enough, there can be a Scanspeak 7140, or retain the 6640.


As far as we know, there is no supply issue on the Wavecor woofers, plus Steve has some stock available.

[neuro]

A wise man once said slow work takes time...
Here is the test fit of my tweeter-mid baffle section:


Tweeter fits like a glove. Mid has more clearance than desired, but not so much that I'm going to re-print (prints of this size are a minor achievement each time they complete without a catastrophic error during the ~20 hour print time).

[JonMarsh]

Very nice... Glad you were able to find a pair of the C90-6-79, I've had others I'm currently assisting finding that a challenge.

I have things in process for building a small test cabinet for direct radiation T34 measurementments (or did you actually get the T25?)

I have recently/finally received the 2nd pair of AS168 from Solen- slow shipping clearly takes time, and I suspect that Solen was nearly completely shut down for a while, except perhaps receiving? But no shipping out of orders?

My concerns were such that I tried ordering a pair of AS168 from InterTechnik in Germany. I got an initial order confirmation but never a shipping confirmation. However, these showed up on my porch about 2 weeks ago... long after the order date.





Needless to say, I don't have complaints, and the price was fairly good, too.

But it is clear supply chains aren't back to normal yet.

Placed a large order for Anarchy 558 today. Eric is moving the operation this month, so I suppose delays are to be expected. I hope his new location works as well as he seemed to have planned- this has been in the planning for a while.

[neuro]

I got the T34s during the 2019 Black Friday sale, T25s weren't available at that time.
Have had the C79s since 2016. Ordered them from Europe when the first go-round of Brexit events cause a small favorable currency exchange rate effect .

[neuro]

Already posted in construction materials thread, but to keep this build documented in one place, here is the construction droid at work on that baffle section. Will (most likely) be filled with fiber reinforced plasticized stucco mix.

[Bear]

How do you plan to join the baffle sections?

[neuro]

How do you plan to join the baffle sections?

Epoxy most likely. You can't see it in those previous pictures but there is a cylinder printed into the pieces for an alignment dowel. A 1" x 30" dowel will go down each side of the baffle to tie all four sections together, see bottom-most section model below. So, the epoxy doesn't have to take shear force and I'm hoping it will work well. A related question is how much epoxy will squeeze out and what will it do to the surface at those junctions. I can wipe it off but there is no way to avoid smearing it into the cracks of the print and now some parts of the baffle will look different than others. Then again, different areas were going to have different defects anyway. I can either consider it part of the character of a 3D printed effort, or I can cover it all the same ways I would were it wood.