Time for some Ansonica - a new design for Jagman's theater

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • DIYDUGG
    Member
    • Dec 2013
    • 35

    Thanks Knowledgebass - We are in a parallel situation then, okay, will go for the smaller one also.
    Many years of collecting large coils/caps etc.

    amp: I was fortunate to find a Luxman M-117 years ago, it's been wrapped in bubble wrap for year (seriously) until the DIY community said it was good amp. It's very warm sounding as advertised, it does tend to make everything sound good; for a while anyway.

    So chipping away at the xo while building boxes:

    The tweeter is not difficult. Also a lot of folks just separate the two, which is less confusing.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	xo cdj  III.jpg
Views:	831
Size:	44.9 KB
ID:	858835
    Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:06 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

    Comment

    • DIYDUGG
      Member
      • Dec 2013
      • 35

      Shifted gears a bit - laminated 1/2 mdf with 1/2 ply; some others said its not a bad idea and step up from either one.
      Cut up some mdf 1", thinking I'll use that for internal bracing now.
      Tweeters arrived in record time, even with the holiday rush.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	Lam.jpg
Views:	759
Size:	6.3 KB
ID:	858838
      Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:06 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

      Comment

      • cjd
        Ultra Senior Member
        • Dec 2004
        • 5568

        Clamps! I like it.
        diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

        Comment

        • DIYDUGG
          Member
          • Dec 2013
          • 35

          These are neat - never saw them before: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DD1QW/ref=pe_64730_102081870_em_1p_0_ti

          Click image for larger version

Name:	71ZIXhrC+pL.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	441.4 KB
ID:	929694


          (Going to order a pair soon)
          Working on boxes now.............
          Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:09 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

          Comment

          • DIYDUGG
            Member
            • Dec 2013
            • 35

            Going okay here - made the boxes 36" tall with slot ports (rounded them over with large bit)
            Went with a square version - other than that - it's the same box.
            ID is 13" x 32" x 7.5" which is 1.8Sf3 without any bracing.

            Comment

            • DIYDUGG
              Member
              • Dec 2013
              • 35

              Trimmed back: ID is now 12.5" x 32" x 7.5" which is 1.74Ft3 (49liters)
              Last edited by DIYDUGG; 28 December 2013, 11:50 Saturday.

              Comment

              • DIYDUGG
                Member
                • Dec 2013
                • 35

                Question and apogees for being late to the party.

                Was there a modification to the tweeter?
                I.e. pulling the back off the tweeter and using the wood baffle as a chamber?

                Click image for larger version

Name:	Tweeter question.jpg
Views:	749
Size:	9.3 KB
ID:	858844
                Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:10 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

                Comment

                • cjd
                  Ultra Senior Member
                  • Dec 2004
                  • 5568

                  No modification to the tweeter - I just like being sure it's isolated from woofer pressures - especially since these go pretty low.
                  diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                  Comment

                  • DIYDUGG
                    Member
                    • Dec 2013
                    • 35

                    Will do then.

                    new pic

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	330.jpg
Views:	740
Size:	9.6 KB
ID:	858845
                    Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:10 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

                    Comment

                    • cjd
                      Ultra Senior Member
                      • Dec 2004
                      • 5568

                      Originally posted by DIYDUGG
                      Went with a square version - other than that - it's the same box.
                      Shoot. Just noticed this with the other pic, but that screws up the driver alignment on the z-axis so summing won't be quite the same on-axis...
                      diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                      Comment

                      • knowledgebass
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2013
                        • 159

                        Also, with the 1.5" baffle the tweeter backing fits without modification. From memory, you'll need about 1/4" - 3/8" clearance for the tweeter backing on your 1" baffle.

                        Comment

                        • DIYDUGG
                          Member
                          • Dec 2013
                          • 35

                          Ut oh ...I guess I should have mentioned a square box sooner.

                          The driver spacing? I laid it out several times; think I got pretty close.

                          Comment

                          • DIYDUGG
                            Member
                            • Dec 2013
                            • 35

                            I did think if that is a problem - could make a tilting stand //


                            Thanks Knowedgebass, will cut up some disk spacers.

                            New pic

                            Click image for larger version

Name:	711.jpg
Views:	784
Size:	30.4 KB
ID:	858846
                            Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:10 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

                            Comment

                            • DIYDUGG
                              Member
                              • Dec 2013
                              • 35

                              Is my Goose Cooked? :thud:

                              Starting to like these boxes:

                              Click image for larger version

Name:	10000.jpg
Views:	736
Size:	15.1 KB
ID:	858856
                              Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:11 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

                              Comment

                              • cjd
                                Ultra Senior Member
                                • Dec 2004
                                • 5568

                                Ahh, progress!

                                I'm not sure it's going to be a huge problem with the time domain change, but it's worth experimenting with blocks under the speakers to tilt them, see if you can hear a difference. I think you'll mostly find a soundstage improvement.

                                I'm in that "waiting for parts to see how bad the first pass at a crossover is" stage, while also slowly doing finishing layers (Nebbiolo). I'll have to wait for it to warm up outside to be able to do the final finish coats though.
                                diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                Comment

                                • DIYDUGG
                                  Member
                                  • Dec 2013
                                  • 35

                                  Whew...that's a relief. Not a speaker connoisseur, but looking for a high level of "good enough".
                                  No paint for a while I'm afraid, cold, cold and/or rain here on the east coast.

                                  This has a little umph by tapping on cone and no boom/box resonance.
                                  I'll check tuning after a while.........

                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	728.jpg
Views:	741
Size:	23.5 KB
ID:	858857

                                  Thank much for posting the plans, xo and advice!
                                  Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:11 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

                                  Comment

                                  • DIYDUGG
                                    Member
                                    • Dec 2013
                                    • 35

                                    Did some old school testing with HP generator & load resistor; came up with 26hz box tuning (with a pair of wires in the slot).

                                    Was getting very strong bass in the high 20's: speaker was in middle of room, so had to walk around to find the bass nodes.

                                    Comment

                                    • cjd
                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                      • Dec 2004
                                      • 5568

                                      That's about right - crossovers in place? I targeted 28Hz IIRC.
                                      diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                      Comment

                                      • DIYDUGG
                                        Member
                                        • Dec 2013
                                        • 35

                                        I'm better at carpentry work than electrical engineering lol I know it should take an hour or two, but will take me longer than that :-/
                                        Have large and small coils here, so the parallel version is looking good.

                                        I would never be able to clip lead one together no, no, no......

                                        Two points is not bad, 26 vs. 28hz, the gen is very, very old. I did throw in a small amount of poly stuffing, but don't think that is restricted the air flow.
                                        There's also a plastic grill over the internal port end, bent around like a "J". I pick that material up at the local Walmart store - needle-point mesh in craft section.

                                        E.G. http://www.amazon.com/Darice-Plastic-Canvas-33900-1-Sheets/dp/B001H83B9Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1388397313&sr=8-2&keywords=needlepoint+mesh

                                        Click image for larger version

Name:	71OUiBpLpnL._AC_SX466_.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	65.7 KB
ID:	929695
                                        Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:13 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

                                        Comment

                                        • DIYDUGG
                                          Member
                                          • Dec 2013
                                          • 35

                                          Tried a second gen - same result 26ish; could always cut 1" off the port on the inside, wouldn't be the first time.
                                          I've seen some folks add liner paper for a smooth surface, that might have helped here.

                                          Comment

                                          • cjd
                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                            • Dec 2004
                                            • 5568

                                            When the crossover is in place it'll change things a little due to the added series impedance on the woofers. You can try running the same gen with the inductor in front of the Anarchy.

                                            26Hz is fine, FWIW. It's an EBS alignment so will unload more quickly below tuning, but the drivers are pretty tough...
                                            diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                            Comment

                                            • DIYDUGG
                                              Member
                                              • Dec 2013
                                              • 35

                                              EBS, yes did goggle that today, hence, going at this a little backwards - but I saw this project months ago and wanted to build it.
                                              Really liking the box size, not too big, easy to carry.

                                              So sorted though parts today, here's what I had on hand. The 3.7mh is 14gauge so may have to swap that out.
                                              The 8ohm resistor - does that need to be higher watts?
                                              The 12" cork board fits on side of box - but thinking three smaller boards might be better. side-back-side

                                              I plan on making one large order to PE, so filling my shopping cart to save on shipping.

                                              Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC03730.jpg
Views:	752
Size:	76.3 KB
ID:	858859
                                              Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:13 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

                                              Comment

                                              • cjd
                                                Ultra Senior Member
                                                • Dec 2004
                                                • 5568

                                                14ga is fine on the 3.7, just don't want higher impedance.

                                                8ohm, 10W is fine - it's in a zobel so is fine. Even on the tweeter 10W should be fine (I tend to use Mills which are 12ohm but...)
                                                diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                                Comment

                                                • DIYDUGG
                                                  Member
                                                  • Dec 2013
                                                  • 35

                                                  I have some of the 2.5 & 4.0 mills resistors in the shopping cart.
                                                  Only have one 18gauge 3.6mh for tweeter - have several of those nice Jantzen's 20gauge I can unwind to 3.6mh.

                                                  So here is the 3 board xo - I think it will fit if it is attached to both sides and back.
                                                  Working with huge coils is not easy to fit & place.

                                                  A question about grounding (common), I can ground the three drivers anywhere, front end, back end, at the terminal cup?

                                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC03737.jpg
Views:	704
Size:	46.0 KB
ID:	858860
                                                  Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:14 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

                                                  Comment

                                                  • cjd
                                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                                    • Dec 2004
                                                    • 5568

                                                    I always like to run +/- to the boards and mark the input polarity, and then also run each driver directly to the crossover board and again mark polarity. This is extra helpful when some drivers are reversed polarity. However, the (-) input and all ground can be tied just about any way you find useful.

                                                    C
                                                    diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                                    Comment

                                                    • DIYDUGG
                                                      Member
                                                      • Dec 2013
                                                      • 35

                                                      Chris (yes?) Happy New Year!

                                                      Working on several things here, including packing up holiday decorations.
                                                      With that and more; still should have one box together later today.

                                                      Was there info on damping material? Been using PE's wool, (which needs a lot of teasing) is there a recommendation on ounces needed?

                                                      Comment

                                                      • cjd
                                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                                        • Dec 2004
                                                        • 5568

                                                        I lined the walls with Sonic Barrier (3 layer) - I may have stuffed as well, I don't recall. I probably didn't if it's not in the notes... then again... Also, managing reflections off the side walls at the woofers.

                                                        Wool (real wool) is awesome, but pricey. Fiberglass is also awesome but sucks to work with. Polyfill is good. Deadening wall resonances was my intent with the sonic barrier, and it does the job. Stuff to taste.

                                                        By the way, you may have something approaching an aperiodic vent with the needlepoint mesh completely in the port airflow, which will also tweak tuning. Just fiddle with it, stuffing, and whatnot to taste.

                                                        C
                                                        diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                                        Comment

                                                        • DIYDUGG
                                                          Member
                                                          • Dec 2013
                                                          • 35

                                                          Thanks Chris.
                                                          I did use a full piece of mesh -ripped 7" turned and flipped it like a J.

                                                          So a little bit of floundering and had to make some of the wires longer, but xo is in and can be removed easily.
                                                          (the wires were wayyy too short on the 1st attempt :M)

                                                          Al that mdf is dampening the box, so probably won't need much damping wool.

                                                          Click image for larger version

Name:	747.jpg
Views:	705
Size:	71.6 KB
ID:	858862
                                                          Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:14 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

                                                          Comment

                                                          • cjd
                                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                                            • Dec 2004
                                                            • 5568

                                                            You'd be surprised just how bad MDF is. That said, bad isn't bad in the end - it's all relative.
                                                            diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                                            Comment

                                                            • DIYDUGG
                                                              Member
                                                              • Dec 2013
                                                              • 35

                                                              mdf is great for fast prototypes - I don't mind working with BB ply and can always re-do them.
                                                              Will slant the next set (o;

                                                              Comment

                                                              • cjd
                                                                Ultra Senior Member
                                                                • Dec 2004
                                                                • 5568

                                                                I just hate working with the stuff - MDF dust is nasty. I've had to clean out the power switch on my router due to MDF dust!
                                                                diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                                                Comment

                                                                • DIYDUGG
                                                                  Member
                                                                  • Dec 2013
                                                                  • 35

                                                                  The white shelving is a little better

                                                                  Ready for lift off!

                                                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC03750.jpg
Views:	651
Size:	55.5 KB
ID:	858863
                                                                  Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:14 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • knowledgebass
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • May 2013
                                                                    • 159

                                                                    Jealous of the pace you set for this project! I'll look forward to some comments on listening impressions at some point.

                                                                    What screws did you end up using (source and or size)? I have some to use, but feel like I settled because I could not find any that would fit in the counterbore in the frames.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • DIYDUGG
                                                                      Member
                                                                      • Dec 2013
                                                                      • 35

                                                                      #6 speaker screws, 1" long http://www.parts-express.com/6-x-1-d...0-pcs--081-440
                                                                      Always good to start off small.

                                                                      I really hate starting-stopping, bad mojo and/or bad memory - just easier get it done, less (or no) mistakes.
                                                                      The xo took longer than the boxes, but had to take apart other boards and sort, measure.

                                                                      Might have some old U shape metal stands with a slight angle that might just work here.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • DIYDUGG
                                                                        Member
                                                                        • Dec 2013
                                                                        • 35

                                                                        Okay...off to a great start!! They sound very nice/natural/balanced.
                                                                        The bass is nice, smooth and extended.

                                                                        The imaging is good, not getting much on to the left/right outside the speakers, but tweeters are brand new, and just sat them on the floor for now, vertical.

                                                                        Didn't use much fill; some poly (junk) on the bottom, but that holds the better wool behind the woofers. Only had 10oz of the better wool, so 5oz each.

                                                                        btw, added pieces of cork near the woofers cutouts.

                                                                        btw II 70lbs each
                                                                        Last edited by DIYDUGG; 04 January 2014, 05:33 Saturday.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • DIYDUGG
                                                                          Member
                                                                          • Dec 2013
                                                                          • 35

                                                                          Knowledgebass - the inductor that is hard to find is the 3.6mh .7dcr
                                                                          This may be the closest:

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • knowledgebass
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • May 2013
                                                                            • 159

                                                                            I ordered mine from Solen. I may have gotten their last in stock parts at the time. I've had everything (but screws) to finish my build since September. I'm just slow!

                                                                            Edit: here's the one

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • DIYDUGG
                                                                              Member
                                                                              • Dec 2013
                                                                              • 35

                                                                              Thanks was going to ask.

                                                                              So they are in Canada - shipping might run the price back up.

                                                                              You'll like the SB tweeter - I have had others in that price range that don't sound anything like the SB29RDC.
                                                                              MS said it's a popular seller.

                                                                              Now I had a pair of SB29RDCN, but didn't think they would work here.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • cjd
                                                                                Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                • Dec 2004
                                                                                • 5568

                                                                                I may have sourced from Madisound or Erse directly.
                                                                                diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • DIYDUGG
                                                                                  Member
                                                                                  • Dec 2013
                                                                                  • 35

                                                                                  So again very nice; had to lift them off the floor, which sacrificed some the bass but lifted the high end.
                                                                                  They will make you look twice - some of the sounds are so life like they will draw you in.
                                                                                  Excellent sound stage also.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • knowledgebass
                                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                                    • May 2013
                                                                                    • 159

                                                                                    Yeah, I'm in Canada so ordering from Solen is actually cheaper for me in the grand scheme of things. I had looked at some other kits from Madisound and Meniscus and shipping to Canada easily added another 30%+ (hundreds of dollars for a multi-driver kit) to the total cost.

                                                                                    Originally posted by DIYDUGG
                                                                                    So again very nice; had to lift them off the floor, which sacrificed some the bass but lifted the high end.
                                                                                    They will make you look twice - some of the sounds are so life like they will draw you in.
                                                                                    Excellent sound stage also.
                                                                                    Your assessment is encouraging. Did you experiment with leaning them back? I believe that the angle baffle helped with time alignment, and also simulate (I think?) a taller cabinet. Anyway, thought I caught that on one of my read throughs but might have been on another angled baffle thread.

                                                                                    What's your final height? How much space below your cabinet? I think I'm on target to be ~36" once I have ~1" feet in place (which I'm still not sure what I'll use, thinking about carving some totem inspired 'claw' feet and using screw adjustment feet).

                                                                                    Update from me. I have facets cut on both boxes. Starting to sand. It's going to take a while. Wish I had a better sander. Using a hard maple [guitar] neck blank lined with sand paper to keep everything as level as I can, hand pane where I can to make it go faster, and a little detail 'mouse' style random orbit sander on the facets (and I'll give everything a go over with it once it's level). I have a 1/3 sheet sander but it's not random orbit and I find it scours some if not really careful - the advantage of random orbit sanders. So about half done the first one. And then one to go... Better figure out my finishes soon.

                                                                                    Oh, and it's cold in my garage. Sweater, toque (winter cap), respirator and gloves helping to keep me warm. Also have a ceiling mounted heater that keeps a little area warmish that I try to keep under so maybe >0°C where I'm working, but almost certainly <0°C in the rest of the garage.

                                                                                    I'm planning a light seal with shellac before I stain, then apply stain, and then do some filling on the baffle with epoxy (plywood is surprisingly soft). I've had some cracks form in the baffle, not along a glue joint, but through the wood plys. I mentioned earlier that I've seen some movement in the baffles, well this is probably one result. The first crack occurred while applying clamps, the other (between woofers on the other box) occurred some time after glue-up, but wasn't there immediately after. If you're doing translaminated baffles, plan on filling some cracks. I plan on feeding some thin epoxy into the gaps, let it harder, and then I'll mix a small batch that I'll try to tint (maybe?) and use some dust as filler to span the cracks after I've stained. That's the plan anyway. Still have some glue to remove before I can do that.
                                                                                    Last edited by knowledgebass; 06 January 2014, 11:25 Monday. Reason: sentence fragment

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • cjd
                                                                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                      • Dec 2004
                                                                                      • 5568

                                                                                      Yeah, I'm staying indoors today. Windchill here is low enough it would be warmer at the same number in celcius. Warmed up now so windchill is only -38F, standing temps -15F. And beautifully sunny. I want to go skiing or snowshoeing. Instead I get to work.

                                                                                      My baffles (actually the tops) have split slightly, I think due to some water spilled on them. Soon as the Nebbiolo is completed I'll be pulling these apart to finish finally.
                                                                                      diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • DIYDUGG
                                                                                        Member
                                                                                        • Dec 2013
                                                                                        • 35

                                                                                        The cold is on the way down here, they are counting it down like a clock here - Canada plz keep the cold air up there brrrrrrr

                                                                                        I found more stands that fit nicely, and still vertical, but we are enjoying them. The'll knock you out in minutes if you are not careful; that's the acid test for me anyway and an example of a easy to listen to sound.
                                                                                        That went by fast and didn't even need to tweak anything, but trust me, it's been a long hard road to find a pair that meets all this criteria.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • knowledgebass
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • May 2013
                                                                                          • 159

                                                                                          In my experience, once it hits -20°F (~-30°C), anything colder is just a numerical bonus. -60°F (-50°C) feels the same to your skin and mucous membranes as -20°F (that's before windchill). Officially I would describe that feeling as, "not good." Normally I experience an involuntary cough when first exposed to those conditions. The frigid air is currently making it's way to me from the U.S. midwest, I probably won't be getting any work done once it parks over us, but I still have some cross over work to finish up.

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • knowledgebass
                                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                                            • May 2013
                                                                                            • 159

                                                                                            Just a quick update. Progress has slowed due to the aforementioned cold. The really cold spell has broken but my garage is still below freezing. Hopefully we're done with that for the year. That said I've been sanding. Lot's of sanding and then running in to warm up my hands. I've just about got all the inconsistencies out of the baffle. Currently working through the grits to smooth it up. I have a couple areas to patch on the sides and some minor dents where I may try to steam the grain back out. We'll see how picky I remain the closer these get to being done!

                                                                                            Click image for larger version

Name:	11936159734_ac63c31897.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	35.9 KB
ID:	929696
                                                                                            CameraZOOM-20140112164706847 by Knowledge Bass, on Flickr

                                                                                            Click image for larger version

Name:	11935991553_0e81ceb1df.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	37.3 KB
ID:	929697
                                                                                            2014 - 1 by Knowledge Bass, on Flickr

                                                                                            Get close to being ready to stain. I'll be finalizing colour choice this week and maybe start the staining process in another week.

                                                                                            Oh and I finally found some screws. I picked up the #7-1" Kreg pan head coarse screw which is a perfect fit for the Anarchy counter-bore. Unfortunately they are silver so I'll need to paint them.
                                                                                            Last edited by theSven; 14 March 2023, 21:15 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            Working...
                                                                                            😀
                                                                                            😂
                                                                                            🥰
                                                                                            😘
                                                                                            🤢
                                                                                            😎
                                                                                            😞
                                                                                            😡
                                                                                            👍
                                                                                            👎
                                                                                            Searching...Please wait.
                                                                                            An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                                                                            Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                                            An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                                                                            Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                                            An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                                                                            There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                                                                            Search Result for "|||"