VituixCAD v2

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  • kimmosto
    Moderator
    • Dec 2006
    • 584

    Originally posted by augerpro
    Can you explain the work you did to come up with this? What were the assumptions?
    I'm quite fully booked at the moment so cannot show visualization soon.
    It should be well known that distance difference of 1/2 wavelength between two radiators with the same phase causes null, and 90 deg is the most significant in power response due to intensity conversion from dual plane to spherical surface so c-c=1.0 x wavelength would give smallest dip in power with assumptions that XO is phase matched i.e. acoustical L-R and directivities of individual radiators do not drop at XO band. Acoustic LR24 is quite typical XO so that's good starting point for simplified rules.
    We also know that weight of power response is not 100% in sound balance. Therefore it's safest to include also vertical early reflections. CTA-2034 standard committee has decided that floor bounce of 20-40 deg down and ceiling bounce of 40-60 deg up are the most relevant assuming that listening distance is 2-3 m i.e. typical at home. Target is to aim nulls elsewhere than early reflection angles to get reflected spectrum smooth. Very near field has another issues, and very long distance changes the game because previous directions do not send 1st order early reflections.
    Easiest way at the moment with VituixCAD is to optimize either preference rating (equation 9) or in-room response with three ideal omni radiators in MT or MTM (nothing loaded to Drivers tab). Both optimize blend of power and early reflections. XO LR24 linear phase. Variables to be optimized are Y coordinates of M drivers. Best result i.e. the most linear in-room response or highest PR should happen with c-c somewhere between 1.0 and 1.4 x wavelength. Higher weighting of early reflections increase c-c.

    Phase mismatched crossovers such as Butterworth and Bessel will change this rule. In addition, weight of power response is smaller in practice with very directive radiators such as large cones and horns because they are able to block 60-90 deg quite much. Another c-c rules - or no rules at all is needed.
    VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

    Comment

    • augerpro
      Super Senior Member
      • Aug 2006
      • 1866

      Ok now I'm starting to understand the assumptions. Regarding the 90 degree vertical, I certainly wouldn't overweight the importance of that. Harman doesn't put hardly any weight in that direction. In fact 90 degrees in any direction might be the least relevant of all possible angles. I'm not sure how CTA-2034 compares to Harman's method, but perhaps it differs here?

      So the actual criteria from CTA-2034 for vertical response is 20-40 down, and 40-60 up. Or more specifically, as smooth a reflection as possible reaching the listening position from floor and ceiling. It is from that point that people should simulate the response and optimize ctc. I'm just concerned about creating a generalized rule of thumb - 20-40 down, 40-60 up -and then stacking another rule of thumb on top of that - 1.0 - 1.4 wavelength - and people going down the wrong path because they never optimized for the actual design in an actual room with a specified listening distance for a specific outcome.

      What listener preference experiments did CTA-2034 committee use to validate their guidelines? Or did they rely on published research by others, probably Harman mostly? I ask because while I like the idea of first reflections being smooth across the spectrum, no one that I know have has found vertical first reflection response all that important. Maybe it is just a matter of Harman and others not having looked, or maybe they did and found it not very important to preference?
      ~Brandon 8O
      Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
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      DriverVault
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      Comment

      • kimmosto
        Moderator
        • Dec 2006
        • 584

        Originally posted by augerpro
        Regarding the 90 degree vertical, I certainly wouldn't overweight the importance of that. Harman doesn't put hardly any weight in that direction. In fact 90 degrees in any direction might be the least relevant of all possible angles.
        Power response in not just 90 deg. Weighting from single plane to sphere is calculated with integral sine. All angles (including 0 deg with assumption that angle step bigger than 0) are significant. Some directions more - some less.

        Originally posted by augerpro
        I'm not sure how CTA-2034 compares to Harman's method, but perhaps it differs here?
        I think directivity benchmarks of CTA-2034 was based on Harman's method. At least very close because Toole's book does not have discrepancy compared to standard. Same directions, angle steps etc.

        Originally posted by augerpro
        ..they never optimized for the actual design in an actual room with a specified listening distance for a specific outcome.
        Solutions designed for a single room and placements and listener are possible in DIY, but that method does not tolerate much changes in life; speaker and listening positions, listening direction, height, room acoustics etc. Stable and reliable method is to design directivity and sound balance features so that normal changes in conditions don't spoil the sound. Overall design should be healthy.

        Originally posted by augerpro
        did they rely on published research by others, probably Harman mostly?
        Most probably.

        Originally posted by augerpro
        no one that I know have has found vertical first reflection response all that important. Maybe it is just a matter of Harman and others not having looked, or maybe they did and found it not very important to preference?
        We don't play just with the most important parameters in hifi so "that important" is irrelevant. This is playing with significances and probabilities - both smaller and bigger. It would be totally ignorant to say that smoothness of vertical directivity does not have any significance. It's perfectly natural to use one of the most powerful tool to control smoothness of vertical directivity at XO band. Direction towards your toes (while sitting in the spot) or fly in top corner of the rear wall does not listen or affect anybody's listening impression "that much"..."the most" so there certainly are more significant directions to select for (objective/theoretical) evaluation and rules of thumb.

        This logic is just common sense imo, and nothing in practice has shown that it's somehow wrong. Quite opposite in fact. Unfortunately or luckily possibilities to play with combination of XO frequency and c-c are not high in every case. Good combination could just happen by nature. For example wave guide increases c-c so much that c-c ~ 1.2 wavelength may just happen without thinking a second about whole thing. One of my projects had several tweeter options in prototype phase, and c-c was selected according the highest (AMT25). That c-c was perfect also for the smallest round tweeter despite of few cm gap between the drivers. Simulation with actual measurements shows that smaller c-c- and lower XO would be significantly worse in every benchmark related to directivity.
        Last edited by kimmosto; 28 October 2021, 03:54 Thursday.
        VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

        Comment

        • kimmosto
          Moderator
          • Dec 2006
          • 584

          One more point of view. Combination of c-c distances and XO frequencies is also one tool to increase directivity of very multi-way speakers. Maybe the best as 4-way. In than case we can intentionally use c-c = 0.6-0.7 x wavelength at XO frequency to minimize floor and ceiling reflections. Smoothness of vertical directivity will be bad, but directivity is so high that smoothness in single plane only does not matter so much anymore. Of course directive range should be as wide as possible and end smoothly to avoid sound balance problems, because there will be floor and ceiling reflections in real life, and speakers are not always listened at the spot.
          VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

          Comment

          • kimmosto
            Moderator
            • Dec 2006
            • 584

            2.0.76.9 (2021-10-31)

            Main
            * Added color button for XO comment text.

            Enclosure
            * Visibility of chart traces is set/reset when radiator type changes. Not every time according radiator type when system is calculated to keep user's settings in Traces window.
            VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

            Comment

            • fluid
              Junior Member
              • May 2021
              • 15

              Originally posted by augerpro
              What listener preference experiments did CTA-2034 committee use to validate their guidelines? Or did they rely on published research by others, probably Harman mostly?
              From the standard

              "The early reflections curve is an estimate of all single-bounce, first-reflections, in a
              typical listening room. Measurements were made of early reflection “rays” in 15 domestic
              listening rooms. From these data a formula was developed for combining selected data
              from the 70 measurements in order to develop an estimate of the first-reflections arriving
              at the listening location in an “average” room (Devantier, 2002)".

              The research that decided on those angles was Devantier (2002), "Characterizing the amplitude response of loudspeaker systems"

              Comment

              • Juhazi
                Senior Member
                • May 2008
                • 239

                Nice synopsis of Devantier studies as basis of CTA-2034 (original at AES is behind paywall)

                My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, CSS125FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470Dayton, -13 AINOgradient, -18 Avalanche AS-1 dsp, -18 MR183w

                Comment

                • kimmosto
                  Moderator
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 584

                  2.0.77.0 (2021-11-11)

                  Main
                  * Added Xilica Solaro 48k to DSP system list in Options window.
                  * Added Trifonov Transient Perfect HP and LP target responses to Optimizer.
                  * Added active, passive and OPA 2-way Trifonov TP blocks to library.

                  Enclosure
                  * Added Database menu with commands:
                  New - to create new local database
                  Open - to open local database
                  Save as - to save database to local directory.
                  * Online checkbox moved to Database menu.
                  * Database filename (txt/online) added to window title.
                  * Database filename saved to enclosure project (vxe).
                  * Error message if driver (manufacturer + model) is not found in database when enclosure project is opened.
                  * Added 'Copy as xml' command to context menu of drivers table.
                  VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                  Comment

                  • kimmosto
                    Moderator
                    • Dec 2006
                    • 584

                    2.0.78.0 (2021-11-13)

                    Main
                    * Added Marani 96k to DSP system list in Options window.
                    * Added Trifonov TP to shape list of generic active LP and HP blocks. Note! HP band requires delay of wavelength/3 @XO with driver's Z or active buffer.
                    VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                    Comment

                    • kimmosto
                      Moderator
                      • Dec 2006
                      • 584

                      2.0.78.1 (2021-11-21)

                      Main
                      * Added 'Raw response' command to context menu of crossover schematic. Shows raw response of driver without crossover in SPL and GD & Phase charts.
                      * Mute and 'Raw response' settings are reset when Optimizer is started with 'Axial response of Driver' option.
                      * Single on-axis response is shown in Directivity chart when 'User's off-axis angles' is selected and both planes are visible and both angle lists contain 0 deg.
                      * No need to list 0 deg to both user's off-axis angle lists in Options window.
                      VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                      Comment

                      • kimmosto
                        Moderator
                        • Dec 2006
                        • 584

                        2.0.78.2 (2021-11-22)

                        Main
                        * Added 'Show Raw impedances' to context menu of Impedance chart.
                        VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                        Comment

                        • Reet
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 511

                          FWIW my solution for raw responses in the past has been to simply create a crossover variant where the drivers are directly connected, then select the response and save as overlay.
                          https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                          Comment

                          • kimmosto
                            Moderator
                            • Dec 2006
                            • 584

                            Quick n' dirty, temporary and limited trick to show raw responses has been just drag&drop FRD files to SPL chart and ZMA files to Impedance chart. I usually design ready at once without raw responses, overlays and variants so personal motivation was low. Feature was requested by commercial customer, but hopefully it helps the others.

                            P.S. There was a bug in color selection of raw impedance responses. It's fixed in rev. 2.0.78.3.
                            VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                            Comment

                            • Reet
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2007
                              • 511

                              I hadn't even thought to just drag and drop the files. That works, although I encountered some reliability issues with loading frequency response files to the SPL chart, sometimes it is loading the phase response instead of the amplitude. It appears that if I drag an FRD file to the phase response chart, then the same file to the SPL chart, that phase response is loaded to both charts.
                              https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                              Comment

                              • kimmosto
                                Moderator
                                • Dec 2006
                                • 584

                                Originally posted by Reet
                                ..some reliability issues..
                                User manual:
                                Dropping files into chart area with Drag & Drop provides better control for Y-axis selection. Traces are scaled with primary/left Y-axis if the files are dropped closer to Y-axis on the left. Traces are scaled with secondary/right Y2-axis if the files are dropped closer to Y2-axis on the right.
                                VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                Comment

                                • Reet
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Dec 2007
                                  • 511

                                  Thanks for clarifying. That's a rather awkward behaviour in my opinion. Especially since it appears to be the only method to load phase data from an FRD file to the SPL overlay. If I were to manually select the file via the "open overlay" context menu, it will present only the SPL amplitude without question.

                                  While on the topic of overlay traces, one feature I think would be useful is a quick and easy adjustment of the amplitude of overlay traces. An additional column in the traces window for "Scale" would be helpful to avoid extra steps of using the calculator tool and creating another file for simple comparison data. For phase plots, maybe a column for delay as well, though it would be unlikely that I would need that feature, someone may want it.
                                  https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                  Comment

                                  • kimmosto
                                    Moderator
                                    • Dec 2006
                                    • 584

                                    ^Left Y scale is selected automatically when you load FRD with open dialog. But that's too limited for some other graphs or if you like to see both magnitude and phase overlays in the same chart. I would say that selection according dropping point it's brilliant
                                    VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                    Comment

                                    • Reet
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Dec 2007
                                      • 511

                                      From a functionality standpoint, its great to have the feature available for anyone that wants it. From a user interface standpoint, I must disagree on describing it as "brilliant" as it was not a straight forward interaction that had me rather confused in general as the experience with the context menu of loading the overlay includes left axis only, so the immediate assumption was that the program was doing something wrong without reading the manual to understand the odd behaviour.

                                      An alternative user interface behaviour that I would suggest for the SPL chart, would be to have both left and right y axis (SPL and phase) loaded via context menu or drag and drop, but phase by default is unchecked to reduce clutter. If someone wants to view phase as well, it's as simple as opening the trace window and selecting the trace, regardless of the method used to load the FRD file. By doing this, behaviour of overlay file loading is consistent regardless of the method used.
                                      https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                      Comment

                                      • kimmosto
                                        Moderator
                                        • Dec 2006
                                        • 584

                                        2.0.79.0 (2021-12-01)

                                        * Added manual Y axis selection to 'Open overlay...' command.
                                        * Added dbx DriveRack 96k to DSP system list in Options window.
                                        * Q factor of active 2nd order shelving filters entered as S (slope, 3-15 dB/oct) with dbx DriveRack DSP.
                                        * Q factor of active 2nd order shelving and peak/notch filters entered as BW (bandwidth, 0.05-3.61 oct) with Xilica DSPs.
                                        VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                        Comment

                                        • kimmosto
                                          Moderator
                                          • Dec 2006
                                          • 584

                                          Few notes.

                                          Old projects using Xilica DSP should be opened, fixed and saved because Q parameter of shelving LP/HP and peak/notch filters won't be converted to BW when old project is loaded.

                                          Calculation of shelving filters is not very accurate with dbx DriveRack because I don't know equation for converting Slope to Q parameter compatible with cookbook by RBJ. Calculation is designed by comparing results on display Measurements with few different gains and slopes were not available. It's not far, but not exact yet.

                                          'Opening overlay...' command is now as good and limitless as drag & drop because it has axis selection. Selecting Both axles loads two curves at once if target chart has both magnitude and phase. All charts don't have dB and deg scales so automation Reet proposed earlier would not cover all charts having overlay feature.
                                          VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                          Comment

                                          • Reet
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Dec 2007
                                            • 511

                                            Good enough, thanks
                                            https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                            Comment

                                            • MEGB1262
                                              Junior Member
                                              • Dec 2021
                                              • 2

                                              I am coming from BoxSim, there the start is a no brainer starting with the 3 way default project.
                                              Do you think you can provide some example 2 Way or 3 Way passive crossover and simple CB cabinet .vsp V2 format project files supplied with the software installation as a kind of quick start to this quite complex tool?
                                              Or as first answer a link to some kind of web link where to download examples of projects.
                                              I did not find anything like this or the https://kimmosaunisto.net/ web site.
                                              Last edited by MEGB1262; 20 December 2021, 19:48 Monday.

                                              Comment

                                              • draki
                                                Member
                                                • Oct 2012
                                                • 37

                                                ^
                                                In VituixCAD that you linked, open the User Manual.
                                                Scroll down to Support / How to start working with VituixCAD.
                                                There are two test projects which you can download.
                                                Attached Files

                                                Comment

                                                • kimmosto
                                                  Moderator
                                                  • Dec 2006
                                                  • 584

                                                  Rev. 2.0.79.2 (2021-12-21)

                                                  * Added magnitude and phase response of selected active block to Filter graph.
                                                  * Visible parameters of (non-rotated) components in crossover schematic can be adjusted with mouse wheel. Click component, move cursor over the parameter and wheel up/down. R, L, C, transformer and main parameter of simple active blocks can be adjusted without accurate pointing.
                                                  VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                  Comment

                                                  • JonMarsh
                                                    Mad Max Moderator
                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                    • 15261

                                                    This would be a good time to remind other users of VituixCAD who have benefitted from all the hard work Kimmo has put into this excellent and constantly evolving tool to consider a donation - I did one recently, and another this morning. Everytime I’m doing some deep work on a project and make some good progress, I’m reminded how much I benefit from this tool, and how in my own experience, nothing else compares, especially considering the initial cost of entry.
                                                    the AudioWorx
                                                    Natalie P
                                                    M8ta
                                                    Modula Neo DCC
                                                    Modula MT XE
                                                    Modula Xtreme
                                                    Isiris
                                                    Wavecor Ardent

                                                    SMJ
                                                    Minerva Monitor
                                                    Calliope
                                                    Ardent D

                                                    In Development...
                                                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                    Obi-Wan
                                                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                    Modula PWB
                                                    Calliope CC Supreme
                                                    Natalie P Ultra
                                                    Natalie P Supreme
                                                    Janus BP1 Sub


                                                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                    Comment

                                                    • MEGB1262
                                                      Junior Member
                                                      • Dec 2021
                                                      • 2

                                                      Originally posted by draki
                                                      ^
                                                      In VituixCAD that you linked, open the User Manual.
                                                      Scroll down to Support / How to start working with VituixCAD.
                                                      There are two test projects which you can download.
                                                      Sorry for the stupid question - after reading the simple answer i have to ask myself whether i'm getting too old...
                                                      Many thanks - starting with an example project is extremely helpful and this is probably the reason why you put this in Tip 1

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Reet
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Dec 2007
                                                        • 511

                                                        Originally posted by JonMarsh
                                                        This would be a good time to remind other users of VituixCAD who have benefitted from all the hard work Kimmo has put into this excellent and constantly evolving tool to consider a donation - I did one recently, and another this morning. Everytime I’m doing some deep work on a project and make some good progress, I’m reminded how much I benefit from this tool, and how in my own experience, nothing else compares, especially considering the initial cost of entry.
                                                        Good rule of thumb might be to make a donation with every speaker completed with the aid of VituixCAD
                                                        https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                                        Comment

                                                        • JonMarsh
                                                          Mad Max Moderator
                                                          • Aug 2000
                                                          • 15261

                                                          Originally posted by Reet
                                                          Good rule of thumb might be to make a donation with every speaker completed with the aid of VituixCAD

                                                          That's a good idea; I take it a bit farther sometimes, if I've had a solid working burst and feel like I've made a bit of a breakthrough, or if Kimmo has added a feature that I used to use in another program and have missed for years (being able to display the raw driver response is an example!)
                                                          the AudioWorx
                                                          Natalie P
                                                          M8ta
                                                          Modula Neo DCC
                                                          Modula MT XE
                                                          Modula Xtreme
                                                          Isiris
                                                          Wavecor Ardent

                                                          SMJ
                                                          Minerva Monitor
                                                          Calliope
                                                          Ardent D

                                                          In Development...
                                                          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                          Obi-Wan
                                                          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                          Modula PWB
                                                          Calliope CC Supreme
                                                          Natalie P Ultra
                                                          Natalie P Supreme
                                                          Janus BP1 Sub


                                                          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Reet
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Dec 2007
                                                            • 511

                                                            Today I was investigating one of the rarely used features in VituixCAD - the room interaction section.

                                                            It is nice to be able to investigate speaker and listener placement with regards to the reflections. One thing I think could be a beneficial addition here would be to include full room dimensions so that room modes can be calculated for low frequencies as well. Limited to rectangular rooms I think would be fine for some basic understanding.
                                                            https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Reet
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Dec 2007
                                                              • 511

                                                              Couple of basic requests for the calculator and merger tool. I often turn off the phase plots here to reduce clutter when adjusting response amplitudes, however as soon as I touch anything in these tools, all response traces are re-enabled. Please correct this bug so that when user selects for phase to not be shown, it stays hidden.

                                                              Another request for the calculator and merger tool would be the ability to adjust scale and delay values for the individual responses by using the mouse scroll wheel. It seems to be probably the only place in the application where the scroll wheel will not adjust the values. Master scale and delay that is applied to all responses is adjustable by scroll wheel, but not the individual response.

                                                              Would also like to see a "clear response" button for the B response.

                                                              Thanks!
                                                              https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                                              Comment

                                                              • kimmosto
                                                                Moderator
                                                                • Dec 2006
                                                                • 584

                                                                ^Designed function was that 'Show phase' checkbox rules visibility of all phase responses in Calculator and Merger tools. Traces window offers just temporary control for publishing purposes, but 'Show phase' overrides that as soon as graph is drawn next time. This is 1st generation function of Traces window all around VCAD. Not a bug.
                                                                One possibility is to remove 'Show phase' checkbox, but operating via Traces window only would be slower. Second option is that 'Show phase' checkbox rules and Traces window does not have any control to visibility of phase responses. Third option is to toggle visibility with 'Show phase' checkbox and allow more sustainable control via Traces window. The last option is done to 2.0.79.3. I'm quite confident that it will be as confusing as previous

                                                                Scale adjustment with Shift + mouse wheel is for overlay curve(s). That feature works also in Merger and Calculator.

                                                                2.0.79.3 (2021-12-29)

                                                                Main
                                                                * Improved Maximum gain penalty function of Optimizer.
                                                                * Added smoothness of listening window (SM_LW) to Preference rating table.

                                                                Calculator
                                                                * Added 'Clear response B' button.
                                                                * 'Show phase' checkbox toggles visibility of phase responses allowing more control via Traces window.

                                                                Merger
                                                                * 'Show phase' checkbox toggles visibility of phase responses allowing more control via Traces window.
                                                                VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                                Comment

                                                                • tktran
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • Jan 2005
                                                                  • 658

                                                                  Originally posted by JonMarsh
                                                                  This would be a good time to remind other users of VituixCAD who have benefitted from all the hard work Kimmo has put into this excellent and constantly evolving tool to consider a donation - I did one recently, and another this morning. Everytime I’m doing some deep work on a project and make some good progress, I’m reminded how much I benefit from this tool, and how in my own experience, nothing else compares, especially considering the initial cost of entry.
                                                                  Well I don't have anything to compare to. Decades ago I heard about SoundEasy or LspCAD, but felt that the cost of entry is for people who already know what they're doing. For an amateur just tinkling away, it's too deep to get started. Like paying $499 for Logic Pro, but you don't know a single thing about making music on the computer, so it's a tough pill to swallow.

                                                                  One of the most appreciated things from VituixCAD is the learning curve that's modern- 1. YouTube videos to get started
                                                                  2. What equipment to buy and how to set it up.

                                                                  This solves most of the legwork of actually being able to trust your measurements. Because if you can't trust your measurements (because something is wrong in the chain) then you can't really trust your data, and well... garbage in garbage out.

                                                                  I've made 2 donations and plan on making more.

                                                                  I think the using program has helped me learn more about speaker design in a year versus a decade of lurking in the forums.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Reet
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • Dec 2007
                                                                    • 511

                                                                    Originally posted by kimmosto
                                                                    ^Designed function was that 'Show phase' checkbox rules visibility of all phase responses in Calculator and Merger tools. Traces window offers just temporary control for publishing purposes, but 'Show phase' overrides that as soon as graph is drawn next time. This is 1st generation function of Traces window all around VCAD. Not a bug.
                                                                    One possibility is to remove 'Show phase' checkbox, but operating via Traces window only would be slower. Second option is that 'Show phase' checkbox rules and Traces window does not have any control to visibility of phase responses. Third option is to toggle visibility with 'Show phase' checkbox and allow more sustainable control via Traces window. The last option is done to 2.0.79.3. I'm quite confident that it will be as confusing as previous
                                                                    I must have been too blind to even notice the "show phase" checkbox, and just expected a similar interaction to the main window graphs. I am very much in agreement with your solution, thank you kindly.


                                                                    Originally posted by kimmosto
                                                                    Scale adjustment with Shift + mouse wheel is for overlay curve(s). That feature works also in Merger and Calculator.
                                                                    Perfect, I will have to remember this, thank you for the reminder. The request was to also allow for the scroll wheel to adjust the scale and delay fields for the individual responses on mouse hover. Basically to provide the same interaction as the master scale and delay values at the top of the window.
                                                                    https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • kimmosto
                                                                      Moderator
                                                                      • Dec 2006
                                                                      • 584

                                                                      Originally posted by Reet
                                                                      The request was to also allow for the scroll wheel to adjust the scale and delay fields for the individual responses on mouse hover. Basically to provide the same interaction as the master scale and delay values at the top of the window.
                                                                      That is probably doable though data grid control does not have native/integrated mouse wheel support for cell types other than combo/list box. Just for vertical scroll of whole grid which steals/consumes mouse wheel events by default. Adjustment feature was easy to add to parameter grid in the main program because all visible rows fit into grid's height so grid will never scroll.
                                                                      VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Reet
                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                        • Dec 2007
                                                                        • 511

                                                                        Originally posted by kimmosto
                                                                        That is probably doable though data grid control does not have native/integrated mouse wheel support for cell types other than combo/list box. Just for vertical scroll of whole grid which steals/consumes mouse wheel events by default. Adjustment feature was easy to add to parameter grid in the main program because all visible rows fit into grid's height so grid will never scroll.
                                                                        I see, so there is some limitations of the widget to provide this functionality. How about something a bit more basic, like using keyboard arrow keys within the cell to adjust value up and down. Arrows for adjustment of +/- 1, and page up/down for adjustment of +/- 10.
                                                                        https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • kimmosto
                                                                          Moderator
                                                                          • Dec 2006
                                                                          • 584

                                                                          Arrow keys change current cell, and PgUp/PgDn keys scroll page up/down. Ctrl + up/down moves to beginning/end. Alt + Up/Dn would be available - as in the main program, but mouse wheel is more convenient so I will add adjustment with mouse wheel. Value changes and grid does not scroll if numeric field is selected. Cursor have to be in text or checkbox field in order to scroll with mouse wheel.
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                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • kimmosto
                                                                            Moderator
                                                                            • Dec 2006
                                                                            • 584

                                                                            2.0.79.4 (2021-12-31)

                                                                            Calculator
                                                                            * Value in Angle, Scale dB and Delay us columns of response list A is possible to adjust with mouse wheel. Fine tuning with Shift + mouse wheel.
                                                                            Note: Response list A scrolls up/down with mouse wheel when cursor is at Filename or Invert column.

                                                                            Merger
                                                                            * Value in Diam mm, Area cm2, Count and Scale dB columns of LF response list is possible to adjust with mouse wheel. Fine tuning with Shift + mouse wheel.
                                                                            Note: LF response list scrolls up/down with mouse wheel when cursor is at Filename or BS column.
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                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • nc535
                                                                              Junior Member
                                                                              • Apr 2021
                                                                              • 10

                                                                              Originally posted by kimmosto
                                                                              Arrow keys change current cell, and PgUp/PgDn keys scroll page up/down. Ctrl + up/down moves to beginning/end. Alt + Up/Dn would be available - as in the main program, but mouse wheel is more convenient so I will add adjustment with mouse wheel. Value changes and grid does not scroll if numeric field is selected. Cursor have to be in text or checkbox field in order to scroll with mouse wheel.
                                                                              All this is good!

                                                                              I would also love a shift (or alt or whatever works with what exists) click on up/down arrows to multiply the amount of change by 10. Sometimes I'm so far off, I need to walk gain in 1 db steps instead of .1 db. Similarly for delay but different numbers.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • nc535
                                                                                Junior Member
                                                                                • Apr 2021
                                                                                • 10

                                                                                ImportKlippel Nearfield scanner exports as directivity files?

                                                                                The attacked file contains horizontal directivity of Kef LS50 Meta exported from a Klippel Nearfield Scanner and downloaded from a review on ASR site. It would be great if I could import it directly into Vituix. Not being a programmer or even a scripter, I'm stuck with importing it manually, one angle at a time with the help of excel.

                                                                                It would be nice to add this import format to Vituix.

                                                                                Thanks and happy New Year!
                                                                                Attached Files

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • kimmosto
                                                                                  Moderator
                                                                                  • Dec 2006
                                                                                  • 584

                                                                                  ^That file contains just magnitude responses 20-20k, only 194 points / 10 octaves. It may be usable for coarse equalization of whole band if design is bad. Not much common with DIY multi-way designed with VCAD. Program already has VACS 3D balloon import designed for NFS users such as Magico. In addition, some requirements for design purposes are listed here, but nothing what I write there does not make any change. ASR should provide better data imo.
                                                                                  Last edited by kimmosto; 01 January 2022, 01:49 Saturday. Reason: EASE -> VACS
                                                                                  VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Efalegalo
                                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                                    • Jan 2007
                                                                                    • 139

                                                                                    Originally posted by tktran
                                                                                    I think the using program has helped me learn more about speaker design in a year versus a decade of lurking in the forums.
                                                                                    Ditto.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • nc535
                                                                                      Junior Member
                                                                                      • Apr 2021
                                                                                      • 10

                                                                                      You are correct. That is not good data and not enough of it. Didn't realize it until I got it imported.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • kimmosto
                                                                                        Moderator
                                                                                        • Dec 2006
                                                                                        • 584

                                                                                        Trying to make preference rating valid for crossover optimizing... Original equation 9 in the patent has some flaws so it's not valid for optimizing. The following modifications won't fix for example risks related to LFX having quite big weight, but optimizing with PR option is at least usable. Advantage compared to manually set separate target lines for axial/LW and power/PIR is simplicity.

                                                                                        2.0.80.0 (2022-01-01)

                                                                                        Main, Options

                                                                                        * Added PIR weight LW, ER and SP text boxes to Frequency responses group. Enables deviating from PIR calculation of CTA-2034-A standard.
                                                                                        Bigger weight e.g. 40% is recommended for LW while optimizing with Preference rating Equation 9 to reduce error in axial responses.
                                                                                        CTA-2034-A button sets default values: LW=12%, ER=44%, SP=44%.

                                                                                        Main, Preference rating

                                                                                        * Multiplier of optional SL_ON and SL_LW reduced from 2 to 1.
                                                                                        * Added NBD calculation group.
                                                                                        * Added 'Average deviation from 1/2 oct. fixed bands (Olive)' radio button.
                                                                                        This option is sensitive to slope.
                                                                                        * Added 'Average deviation from 1/2 oct. moving band' radio button.
                                                                                        This option is insensitive to slope. Perfectly straight response 80-14300 Hz gives NBD=0 with any slope.
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                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • kimmosto
                                                                                          Moderator
                                                                                          • Dec 2006
                                                                                          • 584

                                                                                          85775 downloads last year.
                                                                                          VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • tktran
                                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                                            • Jan 2005
                                                                                            • 658

                                                                                            Congratulations!

                                                                                            What's the grand plan for 2022?
                                                                                            Have you been interviewed?
                                                                                            Where can we learn more about you?

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