Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mark's Statements to Statement IIs Build Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by mlammert View Post
    So, my carpenter buddy that has been helping me got sick with covid 🙁, so that has delayed things for a while. Hopefully be able to get back at it in about a week when he is fully recovered.

    In the meantime, I have been looking at the crossover changes that need to be made. And, I have a couple questions.

    1) For the tweeters, I need two 6ohm resisters. the Meniscus BOM calls for paralleling two 12ohm to make a 6ohm.

    Could someone please explain to me the "advantage" to doing this over just using a 6phm resister?

    Similar for the midrange, I need two 4.5ohm resistors, the Meniscus BOM calls for seriesing a 1.8ohm and a 2.7ohn to make a 4.5ohm.

    2) The original Statements BOM used Dayton resistors and the IIs from Meniscus BOM call for Lynx resistors.

    Does this matter? Should I source Daytons to match? Or, is it okay to Mix in Lynx when I rebuild the crossovers?

    3) And... Since the original crossovers are going to be disassabled to create the new ones, is there any benefit to swapping in some other manufacturer's "higher quality" crossover components, since everything will be taken apart anyway?

    Thanks as always!
    What power rating of 12 ohm resistors? I use the PE or Mundorf 20W resistors a lot, and I doubt you'd need to parallel those.

    As to the 4.5 ohm resistor, well, good luck finding that value! 4.7 Ohms? no problem. But if the 4.5 ohm is "just" the right value for things to come in on the money, then only alternative would be to parallel two 9.1 ohm resistors.

    I don't personally think that the difference in these brands of resistors will be an issue. I could make an argument for using non-inductively wound resistors in the tweeter crossover, though measuring a significant difference is probably unlikely.

    As to the other crossover components, that all depends... on the electrical parameters of the original, (caps for the tweeters and midrange, for example) and the relative "definition" of the rest of your system. For example, other reviewers and my own experience might tell you the best tweeter crossover caps that, say, PE carries, are the Jantzen Alumen film and foil. Another brand and version that works well is Clarity MR and CMR, and for a bit less money, the Clarity CSA copper connect. But the question then becomes the rest of your signal chain, particularly your source components. DAC and preamp are fairly critical, as well as power amp. Where are you sitting there, and where do you plan to go?

    And for inductors, remember, you'll always get lower distortion with air core, with low DCR, but those mommas are big and expensive. And the degree of benefit depends on the intrinsic performance of the drivers. With a design like this, I'd expect the original designer to have put some thought into those aspects, but if you have a nice DAC and source setup, I'd consider the Alumens on the tweeters at least.
    the AudioWorx
    Natalie P
    M8ta
    Modula Neo DCC
    Modula MT XE
    Modula Xtreme
    Isiris
    Wavecor Ardent

    SMJ
    Minerva Monitor
    Calliope
    Ardent D

    In Development...
    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
    Obi-Wan
    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
    Modula PWB
    Calliope CC Supreme
    Natalie P Ultra
    Natalie P Supreme
    Janus BP1 Sub


    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by JonMarsh View Post
      Isn't it great when all this stuff finally comes together? Also a nice looking build.
      They are beautiful. Too bad they aren't the speakers I am designing in this build thread. Ha ha.

      Thank you for all your other info on my crossover questions!!!

      Comment


      • #48
        After another bout of life getting in the way, we finally have all the cabinet pieces cut from the MDF.

        We will hopefully assemble the cabinets over the holiday break.

        Also ended up buying Black Limba hardwood for the front baffles. Never heard of it or saw it before. But fell in love when I stumbled upon it. The plan is to use the 3/4 inch MDF as a backer and "veneer" 7/16 - 1/2 inch Black Limba to get the final baffle thickness.

        I got some inspiration from an image I saw online of some hardwood speaker baffles where the builder cut ~1 inch wide strips of hardwood and laminated them together to create the full width of their baffles. My plan is to do the same with the Black Limba and "randomize" the strips so that the grain does not line up. Think butcher block, but each ~1 inch strip will be the full height of the front baffle.

        The last two photos don't really do the Black Limba justice. But, you can get an idea of the interesting "wavy" yet "straight grain that is offers.

        Click image for larger version  Name:	20221221_141320.jpg Views:	0 Size:	715.7 KB ID:	927290

        Click image for larger version  Name:	20221221_141303.jpg Views:	0 Size:	765.3 KB ID:	927291



        Click image for larger version  Name:	20221221_140929.jpg Views:	0 Size:	604.9 KB ID:	927292

        Comment


        • #49
          Hi everyone!

          I know it has been a really long time. But, my build is still progressing. Only excuse is life. But, the pace is picking up speed.

          We have all four tunnels built and we have the shell of the two cabinets built.

          Here are some picks.

          Glue up using strapping tape to secure everything. All corners mitered. And all other joints rabbited.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	20230212_140211.jpg Views:	40 Size:	772.5 KB ID:	928810
          Glue up with all the clamps and some temporary bracing.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	20230218_123238.jpg Views:	37 Size:	534.6 KB ID:	928811
          Final two cabinets. Sans tunnels.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	20230219_125052.jpg Views:	38 Size:	537.7 KB ID:	928812
          Here you can see the excellent quality of mitering the corners. Pay no attention to all the dust.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	20230219_124444.jpg Views:	37 Size:	788.5 KB ID:	928813
          Next to come will be gluing in the mid tunnels and routing the hole for the port tube (which will be mounted on the back).

          Leaving the tops off for the time being to make working with the tunnels a bit easier.

          Thanks for sticking with me!!!
          Last edited by mlammert; 22 February 2023, 12:17 Wednesday.

          Comment


          • #50
            Very nice work! Those mitered corners will save you some headache down the road

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Mikerodrig27 View Post
              Very nice work! Those mitered corners will save you some headache down the road
              Thanks!

              The idea right now is to do a piano gloss white/off-white paint job on the cabinet sides/top/back. So, yes, I think the miters will make my life much better at that point!

              Comment


              • #52
                I have a crossover question for anybody in the know.

                I am talking with Meniscus Audio and they are quoting me a new 6.2 ohm resister for the tweeter (R3041).

                But, Jim and Kurt's diagram calls for a new 6.0 ohm resister there (actually two 12 ohm in parallel).

                Any thoughts on that discrepancy?

                Thank you!

                Comment


                • #53
                  That is going to be nice! I would go slightly off-white. Just enough to make it look white but not too white. You would be in for it if you had butt joints on a piano finish. I have thick veneer over some butt joints on my speakers and you can see them if you look carefully enough. MDF too! On my next speakers, I am going to do rabbits amd leave around 5/16" of end grain exposed.

                  Regarding the resistor, It looks like they have the 12 ohm's listed on their site:

                  https://meniscusaudio.com/product/12-ohm-10-watt-mox/

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	lynk3web.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&ssl=1.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	6.9 KB
ID:	930101


                  Although 6.2 ohms is within 5% of the original value. The tolerance on resistors is usually 1%and 5% and 10%. It would be a good idea to make sure the wattage rating is the same as Jim and Curts original design. You can see if they are willing to measure them.
                  Last edited by svenarajala; 17 March 2023, 22:07 Friday. Reason: Update image location

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by mlammert View Post
                    I have a crossover question for anybody in the know.

                    I am talking with Meniscus Audio and they are quoting me a new 6.2 ohm resister for the tweeter (R3041).

                    But, Jim and Kurt's diagram calls for a new 6.0 ohm resister there (actually two 12 ohm in parallel).

                    Any thoughts on that discrepancy?

                    Thank you!
                    According to Curt's website, it's a 6ohm. http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statement_II_4.html

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Mikerodrig27 View Post
                      That is going to be nice! I would go slightly off-white. Just enough to make it look white but not too white.​
                      Thanks! Yes, I am definitely leaning towards a subtle off-white. The wood I have chosen for the front baffles (black limba) I think is really going to look nice with the off-white.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by DeanP View Post
                        According to Curt's website, it's a 6ohm. http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statement_II_4.html
                        I actually have a question into Jim that hopefully he can answer.

                        But, as of right now, I am planning on going with the 6 ohm since that is specifically what it says on the website.

                        Unless I hear otherwise from Jim.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          PM sent. 6.2 is fine without any audible difference.

                          Jim

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post
                            PM sent. 6.2 is fine without any audible difference.
                            Thanks for the quick reply and explanation, Jim.

                            It is greatly appreciated!

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Making some more great progress.

                              So, if you have been following along, the big change I am making in my Statements II design, is that I want removable front baffle and removable base. The base is easy. The front baffle, not so much.

                              In order to get a good seal and to secure the front baffle to be removable, we have integrated an oak frame around the perimeter of the front of the cabinet. The okay frame is 1 3/4" wide. We are using this to support the mid tunnels and in order to get good gasket area and solid bolting surface.

                              The oak frame is rabbited into the side panels and will be glued and screwed to the tunnels and bottom shelf brace. This photo is currently a dry fit of the frame and tunnels.

                              EDIT: We will be taking some measurements and jig sawing out some "arcs" from the oak frame around where the woofers will be to give them as much breathing room as possible.

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	20230226_153143.jpg Views:	0 Size:	474.3 KB ID:	929041

                              We also rabbited a grove in the middle of the mid tunnels and will slide in a piece of 1 3/4" per the original plans (ultimately still giving us two pieces of support on each side of the mid tunnels). The tunnels will be glued and biscuit jointed to the back panel.

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	20230225_160507.jpg Views:	0 Size:	542.9 KB ID:	929042

                              We also cut some filler strips for all the little rabbit grooves and spacers.

                              Once everything is glued up, we will attach the final mitered tops.

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	20230226_153226.jpg Views:	0 Size:	524.9 KB ID:	929043

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Meniscus informed me that "Jim really likes pyramid foam."

                                Anybody know if this pyramid foam from Amazon would be acceptable? If not, anybody have some other links to better pyramid foam?

                                https://www.amazon.com/Pack-12-Designed-Acoustic-Adhesive-Included/dp/B08QN6B2FD/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=acoustic%2Bfoam&qid=1677517603 &sr=8-8&th=1

                                Click image for larger version

Name:	71VrWBqU+fL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	255.5 KB
ID:	930102


                                or

                                https://www.amazon.com/180%C2%B0-Acoustic-Panels-Soundproof-Absorbing/dp/B091XWSN5Y/ref=sr_1_62?keywords=acoustic+foam+2+inch&qid=1668 961821&sr=8-62



                                Thank you!
                                Last edited by svenarajala; 17 March 2023, 22:08 Friday. Reason: Update image location

                                Comment


                                • #61
                                  I'd use these https://www.amazon.com/180%C2%B0-Acoustic-Panels-Soundproof-Absorbing/dp/B091XWSN5Y/ref=sr_1_62?keywords=acoustic+foam+2+inch&amp&qid= 1668961821&amp&sr=8-62

                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	71wDQhuADuS._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	148.7 KB
ID:	929644


                                  They have the highest NRC rating, so should be a bit better.

                                  Jim
                                  Last edited by svenarajala; 14 March 2023, 12:05 Tuesday. Reason: Add image in the event the link expires and someone is curious what Jim recommended

                                  Comment


                                  • #62
                                    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post
                                    They have the highest NRC rating, so should be a bit better.
                                    Thanks, Jim.

                                    Ordering now!

                                    Comment


                                    • #63
                                      Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post
                                      This might be a silly question.

                                      Since I am going to have quite a few of these left over, could I cut off the pyramids and use the 1" thick part of it for my tunnel foam?

                                      Thoughts?

                                      Comment


                                      • #64
                                        Originally posted by mlammert View Post

                                        This might be a silly question.

                                        Since I am going to have quite a few of these left over, could I cut off the pyramids and use the 1" thick part of it for my tunnel foam?

                                        Thoughts?
                                        I've not done it but the tunnel foam isn't rocket science so give it a try.

                                        I usually buy a sheet of 1" flat foam locally from the craft stores for not much money and save the extra for the next project. Shh... Don't tell my wife.

                                        Comment


                                        • #65
                                          So my pyramid foam just came in and I am in the process of "expanding" it to its final size. This stuff is crazy. The foam was literally like 1/16" thick in the vacuum seal bag.

                                          However, it appears this is not truly 2" thick. I would say it is about 1 3/4" - 1 7/8" thick.

                                          Don't know if I should return it? Or, if I should let it sit out longer and expand more?

                                          Or, if 1 7/8" is acceptable for the Statements?

                                          Anybody have any thoughts on this?

                                          Thank you!

                                          Comment


                                          • #66
                                            Also, the cabinets and tunnels are complete.

                                            I am going to prime the inside of the cabinets and the outside of the tunnels with kilz to seal them before final glue up and assembly.

                                            Then all that is left is to build the front baffles.

                                            Comment


                                            • #67
                                              Well, Jim uses it so it must do the trick. I don't think 1/8" is going to make a difference.

                                              Comment


                                              • #68
                                                Originally posted by mlammert View Post
                                                So my pyramid foam just came in and I am in the process of "expanding" it to its final size. This stuff is crazy. The foam was literally like 1/16" thick in the vacuum seal bag.

                                                However, it appears this is not truly 2" thick. I would say it is about 1 3/4" - 1 7/8" thick.

                                                Don't know if I should return it? Or, if I should let it sit out longer and expand more?

                                                Or, if 1 7/8" is acceptable for the Statements?

                                                Anybody have any thoughts on this?

                                                Thank you!
                                                It won't make any difference at all.

                                                Jim

                                                Comment


                                                • #69
                                                  Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post
                                                  It won't make any difference at all.
                                                  Cool. I will separate the thickest ones from the thinnest ones. But, good to know it won't make a difference.

                                                  Thank you as always for your quick replies!

                                                  Comment


                                                  • #70
                                                    Starting to layout the cutouts for the drivers on the front baffles.

                                                    And, laying out where the bolts will go for the removable fronts.

                                                    Got a good system in the works and should make securing the front baffles to the boxes pretty easy and straightforward.

                                                    Comment


                                                    • #71
                                                      Nothing too crazy right now. Just gluing up the ports.

                                                      Came in just under 10 inches total length.

                                                      Click image for larger version

Name:	20230313_183905.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	963.9 KB
ID:	929619

                                                      Click image for larger version

Name:	20230313_184004.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	482.7 KB
ID:	929620

                                                      Comment


                                                      • #72
                                                        Here is a mock up of the shoulder bolts and square washers we will be using to secure the removable front baffles to the cabinets.

                                                        The 3/4" MDF represents the 3/4" layer of the front baffle.
                                                        The 3/4" oak represents the oak "frame" that will go around the perimeter of the cabinet.
                                                        The flat end of the bolt will be welded onto the square washer.
                                                        The 1/2" layer of the front baffle (not shown here) will have square recesses routed out for the square washer to fit in.

                                                        The concept is the smooth shaft of the shoulder bolt will go through the holes drilled in the oak frame and align and secure the front baffle. Then there will be enough threaded part of the shoulder bolt remaining to get washer and nut on it. I did a rough dry run on my current speakers to ensure that I can get my hand in through the woofer cutouts with a tiny ratchet to tighten the nuts to the shoulder bolts.

                                                        There will be a total of 14 of these per speaker.

                                                        Click image for larger version

Name:	20230311_155402.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	816.7 KB
ID:	929622

                                                        Click image for larger version

Name:	20230311_155410.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	763.0 KB
ID:	929623

                                                        Comment


                                                        • #73
                                                          Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post
                                                          6.2 is fine without any audible difference.
                                                          HI Jim and whomever else can chime in.

                                                          Above, Jim commented that Meniscus' substitution of a 6.2 ohm vs 6.0 ohm resister for the tweet would make no audible difference.

                                                          I am getting ready to order the new resisters and was thinking of swapping out all the resisters for new Zister resisters.

                                                          While creating my shopping cart, I also noticed that Meniscus is substituting an 8.2 ohm vs 8 ohm resister in the tweeter network as well.

                                                          Would this be the same thinking that there will be no audible difference between the two?

                                                          FWIW, I am leaning towards keeping the 8 ohm value so that I can use all Zister resisters.

                                                          Thanks!

                                                          Comment


                                                          • #74
                                                            I think you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.
                                                            - Danny

                                                            Comment


                                                            • #75
                                                              Originally posted by technodanvan View Post
                                                              I think you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.
                                                              Hey Danny,

                                                              Do you mean this in regards to 8ohm versus 8.2 ohm?

                                                              Or, do you mean swapping out my current resistors with Zisters in general (currently everything is Dayton resistors based on my original Statements v1 build)?

                                                              Thank you for your input!
                                                              Last edited by mlammert; 18 March 2023, 15:31 Saturday.

                                                              Comment


                                                              • #76
                                                                Apologies, my comment was in regards to the difference between an 8 ohm and 8.2 ohm resistor. I couldn't really say when it comes to swapping out with Zisters, without having used them previously I'm at a loss on that front.
                                                                - Danny

                                                                Comment


                                                                • #77
                                                                  Originally posted by technodanvan View Post
                                                                  Apologies, my comment was in regards to the difference between an 8 ohm and 8.2 ohm resistor.
                                                                  All good. I really appreciate your (and everyone else's) input and comments and suggestions.

                                                                  Getting ready to order everything and it just makes me nervous. Ha ha.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  Working...
                                                                  X
                                                                  Searching...Please wait.
                                                                  An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                                                  Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                  An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                                                  Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                  An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                                                  There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                                                  Search Result for "|||"