It's time for a Bordeaux!

[Mikerodrig27]

Hey Jim. Long time no talk! You and Curt must be happy with your speaker selection lately as things seem to be quiet around SDW

I wanted to pick your brain. I want to pull my Bordeaux speakers off of the wall a bit. I remember reading that the crossover, stuffing in the tunnel etc are tuned for a certain distance off of the wall. I like the way they image being 24" off of the wall to the back of the bass cabinet. I believe the greater distance helps to separate the direct sound from the reflected sound which seems to give a deeper image and a better center image. I can accommodate up to 4' off of the front wall. I also get much tighter bass which is an added benifit.

What specifically would you change to accommodate this? Also, you mentioned stuffing the tunnels to taste. What specifically changes when you stuff it more and less? Less dense stuffing, more of a rear-firing wave?

Also, I wanted to note that I have had a lot of sources, amps, and speakers come and go. The Bordeaux still hold their ground and stick in my room like glue. As of now, I am powering them with all DIY equipment with a newly added Pass Labs XA25 clone. It is basically a XA25 but with higher bias so 70w of class A and some neat circuit tricks. Most dynamic and revealing amp that I have had to date. The amp is the reason for me to want to start to playing with positioning more.

For anyone interested, I found a neat few posts from Curt:

https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1431301-designing-an-open-back-midrange-speaker

If you read through the thread, he made a few very interesting posts.

[Jim Holtz]

Hey Jim. Long time no talk! You and Curt must be happy with your speaker selection lately as things seem to be quiet around SDW

I wanted to pick your brain. I want to pull my Bordeaux speakers off of the wall a bit. I remember reading that the crossover, stuffing in the tunnel etc are tuned for a certain distance off of the wall. I like the way they image being 24" off of the wall to the back of the bass cabinet. I believe the greater distance helps to separate the direct sound from the reflected sound which seems to give a deeper image and a better center image. I can accommodate up to 4' off of the front wall. I also get much tighter bass which is an added benifit.

What specifically would you change to accommodate this? Also, you mentioned stuffing the tunnels to taste. What specifically changes when you stuff it more and less? Less dense stuffing, more of a rear-firing wave?

Also, I wanted to note that I have had a lot of sources, amps, and speakers come and go. The Bordeaux still hold their ground and stick in my room like glue. As of now, I am powering them with all DIY equipment with a newly added Pass Labs XA25 clone. It is basically a XA25 but with higher bias so 70w of class A and some neat circuit tricks. Most dynamic and revealing amp that I have had to date. The amp is the reason for me to want to start to playing with positioning more.

For anyone interested, I found a neat few posts from Curt:

https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1431301-designing-an-open-back-midrange-speaker

If you read through the thread, he made a few very interesting posts.

Hi Mike,

Good to hear from you. Curt and I have been somewhat quiet. That's been due to life getting in the way more than anything.

To answer your question, best I can, any of our open back speakers will sound best when positioned 18 to 36" from the back of the mid-tunnel to the wall behind it. That's where they sound best with the best sound stage to my ears.

I'm glad you're enjoying the Bordeaux. They are my reference in my listening room.

Jim

[Mikerodrig27]

Well, I hope life has been good. Then it is worth it.

Okay, I am at 33" from the front wall to the mid-tunnel. That still fits your recipe then. The soundstage is still great. My listening impression is that moving the speakers out puts the center image behind the speakers a bit.

I mentioned trying diffusion behind the speakers a while back. This spring when the weather thaws, I have the wood ready to cut for quadratic diffusers. Should be a fun experiment that I have always wanted to try. I plan a 30" by probably 60" behind each with a well depth of around 6"-8"

What are you using for your amplifier, preamp and DAC? Also, what is your sitting distance from the speakers? Right now I am about 8' away.

[Jim Holtz]

Well, I hope life has been good. Then it is worth it.

Okay, I am at 33" from the front wall to the mid-tunnel. That still fits your recipe then. The soundstage is still great. My listening impression is that moving the speakers out puts the center image behind the speakers a bit.

I mentioned trying diffusion behind the speakers a while back. This spring when the weather thaws, I have the wood ready to cut for quadratic diffusers. Should be a fun experiment that I have always wanted to try. I plan a 30" by probably 60" behind each with a well depth of around 6"-8"

What are you using for your amplifier, preamp and DAC? Also, what is your sitting distance from the speakers? Right now I am about 8' away.

Hi Mike,

In my main system with the Bordeaux, I have an Emotiva XPA-5 amp, Channel Islands passive preamp with built in theater bypass, so it does double duty for 2 channel and home theater, and a JDS Labs EL DAC which is based on an AK4490 dac chipset. It's not a super inexpensive dac nor is it super expensive. I've owned it for a few years and am still extremely satisfied with its clarity and accuracy.

My listening room is 15' x 17' with a seated distance of about 15' and about 12' between the speakers with 18" clearance on the sides and behind the speakers. It works great!

HTH

Jim

[Mikerodrig27]

Very nice. I have heard good things about JDS. I like the AK chips. I have a Topping D90 (standard) with the AK4499. The AK chip DACs are pretty nice sounding.

I am going to likely build a passive or buffer preamp soon. When your amp and DAC seem to have enough gain, it is a nice way to go. I have a few preamps and like to run them but I also like the sound of no preamp. The only issue is digitally attenuating the signal versus a pot. Hence a passive.

DACs nowadays seem to be able to drive amps just fine with enough gain. I have a nice stepped attenuator and drew up some PCBs to make a buffer that should solve any impedance mismatches. I can also add a switch to run it as a passive or buffer.

It is nice to hear about your setup. Thank you for sharing.

I will report on my diffuser experiment someday. With your listening position being close to the wall in your room, I could see it being handy to break up those particular reflections.