Swope MTM build thread

[Unclejunebug]

So after a few months of research, part buying, and tool gathering I've finally started building my Swope MTMs. I've already received a bunch of help from some fine members here and I'll probably have some questions along the way so I'll be documenting the build here.

I'm hoping that progress will happen rather quickly (does that ever happen? :lol: ) with these since I currently have a 1.5 year old daughter AND my wife is 8 months pregnant with another girl so if I don't finish them before the baby comes they'll definitely end up in a black hole somewhere :W.

Made all my cuts with a table saw. I had read in several threads here that MDF kicks up some serious dust but man, I didn't quite understand how much until I started cutting. A good shop-vac is next on my purchase list. There's an extra sheet of MDF behind the cab parts here that I plan on using for the center and surround Swopes down the road. I plan on cutting everything now and then worrying about assembly later on.



My first baffle. I was quite pleased with the Jasper jig. It made cutting circles a friggin' snap! I might frame this picture next to the portrait of my first born child. I was using some non-digital calipers to measure the drivers that didn't have very long prongs so I had to do a few test cuts before getting the right hole size, but once you get it you get it.



I plan on flush mounting the drivers after veneering but this is a test fit of the two HiVi's and Dayton tweeter. Like a glove! (pats own back)



This is a shot of my workbench. Yes, it's a $10 folding table form Wal-Mart. No, I'm not ashamed :P. It actually worked quite well, better than I thought. It certainly would be nice to have something better and a little more sturdy but this will have to do for now.



One of my crossovers. I wanted to keep the top as clean as possible but I don't know I'll go this route with future builds. The screws in the corners attach to some standoffs to allow some room between the brace it will attach to and the bottom of the board. Gotta give room for all those solder joints.



A test fit of one of the cabinets. The vent at the bottom is 1" tall so I made a little 1" spacer to make the cabinet assembly a little easier. That's what's protruding out of the cabinet. I realized while doing this that two clamps just won't be enough. Added to my list, along with the shop-vac.



Another test fit shot without the spacer.



I ordered a few different types of veneer samples and settled on a maple. I'm going to stain them a dark Espresso color which should look nice with the goldish HiVi drivers. I'll probably paint the vent black as well. I toyed with the idea of veneering the vent but after about 15 seconds of thought it just didn't seem practical.

I should have more progress this coming week. My goal is to have these ready for veneer by next weekend.

[Unclejunebug]

Ok, so I'm going to be assembling my cabinets soon and I have a question about egg-crate foam. Is there any difference between Acoustic Foam and just a regular Egg Crate Foam Pad? The regular foam pad would be cheaper but if there's a big difference in the amount of damping that goes on I'd be inclined to go with the acoustic stuff.

If the acoustic stuff is that much better, how about the difference between wedge foam and egg crate? Or does it not matter inside a small cabinet?

[Unclejunebug]

I'm in the process of assembling my cabinets and I have a question before I can proceed. My original plan was to attach the Xovers to the brace in the middle of the cabinet rather than on the back. My question is, how warm do resistors generally get inside a speaker cabinet and is it ok for egg crate foam to be touching one? My concern is not about sound quality but about the foam catching on fire. Should I even worry about this or is it a non-issue?

The way I initially had this configured the foam lining the walls of the cabinet will come in contact with resistors on both sides of my crossovers. You can see an image of the Xovers in my OP above.

[cjd]

I recommend keeping them clear of anything such as the foam - that would just add to any potential heat issue.

Also, I see no one answered you before: it's all close, but not quite the same. I usually use 3-layer stuff, or the heavy vinyl on the box walls + foam over the top. But, you'll be fine with whatever you've used.

C

[Unclejunebug]

I recommend keeping them clear of anything such as the foam - that would just add to any potential heat issue.

Thanks! Ok, I will do that then. I'll have to re-think how to fix them in the cabinet, but this seems like the safer thing to do.

Also, I see no one answered you before: it's all close, but not quite the same. I usually use 3-layer stuff, or the heavy vinyl on the box walls + foam over the top. But, you'll be fine with whatever you've used.

I've seen a lot of variation on opinion about this. I found a post by Paul in his original Swope build thread where he mentioned using regular Wal-mart eggcrate foam so that's what I decided on. I figured if it was good enough for the designer it would be good enough for me :T

[dar47]

I built these for my mom,
I mounted to xover boards on the sides close to the bottom and covered the rest of the sides up to the boards, top and top of the slot port at the bottom with 1/4" ridged fibre glass. Keep the are through the port free of anything.
I got fibre glass from those cheap ceiling tiles, just rip the vinyl off. Then covered the fibre glass with 1 inch open cell foam. If you can feel your breath through the foam it's good. Those suspended ceiling tiles are $6 for the 2'x4'.
This combo is as good as any thing I have tried. Just hot glue them in place.
They sound great by the way.

[Unclejunebug]

So my progress is not going as quickly as I had hoped, but it is moving along. I finally got the cabinets assembled and bondo'd and I did some initial sanding. It quickly became obvious while I was assembling the cabinets that I am not, nor am I related to, Bob Villa so I had to use a little more Bondo than I would have liked :P .



I ordered some maple veneer and a few samples which finally arrived last Saturday and did some tests with the stain I got. I'm using a water based Espresso stain and a Satin Oil Urethayne made by General Finishes. I really like the color and it stain colors the veneer amazingly well. This shot is one coat of stain and two coats of the satin finish. I tried a Black stain by minwax a few weeks back on some samples I had ordered earlier and I had to use three coats to get it looking somewhat black.



I plan on finishing up the sanding tonight or tomorrow and then work on applying the veneer.

[Unclejunebug]

Finally got the veneer done. With this being my first experience with veneer I'm pretty pleased overall how it turned out, though that's not to say it was perfect.



I've been trying to get most of this done in the small window of time I get between when my daughter goes to bed and that time where my neighbors will start to hate me for using power tools at night. The sides, top, and bottom all went swimmingly. Tonight I just had to trim around the back and the baffle and I'd be done. Well since I was rushing I ended up taking out a small chunk of veneer above one of the vents.



I also ended up putting some pretty good scratches in one of the baffles. As I was starting to trim along one edge of the baffle my router became tough to push along. I thought it was due to there being cavities beneath the veneer where the holes were cut out for the drivers but it ended up being because there was something between the face of the baffle and the base of my router. So I ended up dragging a piece of wood/rock/something solid that scraped the baffle pretty much from top to bottom. Doh!!!!



It's hard to see in this picture but it's there. I'm hoping that with some sanding, the dark stain I'm using, and enough coats of poly it will disappear but time will tell. As for the chip I'm not sure what to do there. I'm going to do some tests with some stain-able wood filler to see if that's a viable option.

I was originally planning on trimming the vent openings flush with the cabinet but I kind of like the rounded edge my flush trim bit left in the corners. Not sure if I'll leave the cabinets like this or not but I kinda like it.



Here's a closer shot of a baffle and the maple veneer. I ordered the veneer from veneersupplies.com, the business end of the joewoodworker.com site. This being the only 4x8 sheet of veneer I've ever purchased I'd have to say I'm pretty happy with it. And the fact it was only $50 for the whole sheet doesn't hurt :T . I am a little curious though as to how more expensive veneer is laid out in terms of the actual veneer assembly. This sheet had vertical joints running through it about every 10 inches or so. Not sure if all veneer is this way but it would have been nice if they were a little further apart.

[Hank]

You're doing some good work there, Unclejunebug!

[Unclejunebug]

Thanks, Hank! It's nice to finally see them in a state close to being finished . I still need to trim back the cutouts for the drivers so I can flush mount them. Once I get that done it's on to the stain and wipe-on poly.

I do have a question for anyone that's used stain-able wood filler. Does anyone have a brand preference or any guidance as to how well it works? I'm trying to decide whether to to fill in the veneer chip above one of my air vents (there's a pic two posts above) or just leave it as is. The last thing I want is to have a glob on my baffle that just isn't the same color as the rest. Anything besides wood filler I could use?

[rcduck]

[QUOTE=Unclejunebug]Finally got the veneer done. With this being my first experience with veneer I'm pretty pleased overall how it turned out, though that's not to say it was perfect.


I've been trying to get most of this done in the small window of time I get between when my daughter goes to bed and that time where my neighbors will start to hate me for using power tools at night. The sides, top, and bottom all went swimmingly. Tonight I just had to trim around the back and the baffle and I'd be done. Well since I was rushing I ended up taking out a small chunk of veneer above one of the vents.

I also ended up putting some pretty good scratches in one of the baffles. As I was starting to trim along one edge of the baffle my router became tough to push along. I thought it was due to there being cavities beneath the veneer where the holes were cut out for the drivers but it ended up being because there was something between the face of the baffle and the base of my router. So I ended up dragging a piece of wood/rock/something solid that scraped the baffle pretty much from top to bottom. Doh!!!!

It's hard to see in this picture but it's there. I'm hoping that with some sanding, the dark stain I'm using, and enough coats of poly it will disappear but time will tell. As for the chip I'm not sure what to do there. I'm going to do some tests with some stain-able wood filler to see if that's a viable option.

I was originally planning on trimming the vent openings flush with the cabinet but I kind of like the rounded edge my flush trim bit left in the corners. Not sure if I'll leave the cabinets like this or not but I kinda like it.

Here's a closer shot of a baffle and the maple veneer. I ordered the veneer from veneersupplies.com, the business end of the joewoodworker.com site. This being the only 4x8 sheet of veneer I've ever purchased I'd have to say I'm pretty happy with it. And the fact it was only $50 for the whole sheet doesn't hurt :T . I am a little curious though as to how more expensive veneer is laid out in terms of the actual veneer assembly. This sheet had vertical joints running through it about every 10 inches or so. Not sure if all veneer is this way but it would have been nice if they were a little further apart.

Uncle[QUOTE=Unclejunebug]

Nice job :T

I am pretty much in the same place you are with my Swope build, maybe a little further along. I actually had a chance to listen to them :B .



I did raw veneer from veneersupplies.com using the iron on method. Its a book matched curly walnut, beautiful. Hey if your going to try something new why not try the hardest possible version. It is also my first venture into veneering and had some issues with it but next time I will be a pro :W .

As for how they sound...



In a room full of some of the best designers / builders in new england (parts express tech talk forum DIY-RI) they were received with very positive reviews. I REALLY like them, I wish I could articulate how they sound but I am still new at this whole thing.

If there are any questions I can help answer for you feel free to ask.

RcDuck

[rcduck]

BTW... if you look close I did the same thing you did, trimmed the slot port with my router, went to finish it with a sharp knife but liked the look of the rounded corners and left them.

I am curious, how are you going to flush cut the baffle? One of the things I learned from this build (along with a very long list) is: veneer THEN cutouts.

[Unclejunebug]

I was able to get the flush mount trimming done this evening. I'm happy with the result, although I learned a valuable lesson for future cabinet assembly. That lesson is, don't line your cabinet walls with foam or mount your Xovers until AFTER you're done cutting/trimming/using power tools that create a lot of dust. I was planning on covering the driver cutouts on the underside of the baffle before starting and I forgot to with the first cabinet. The result is now a cabinet with foam that used to be white and is now brown due to it being full of MDF dust.

Hopefully I can vaccuum or spray most of it out but we'll see. Other than that it looks good.

I am curious, how are you going to flush cut the baffle? One of the things I learned from this build (along with a very long list) is: veneer THEN cutouts.

I used a rabbeting bit to do the trimming. I figured I'd have to buy some tools for this build so I decided to add to my router bag o' tricks. There's a Woodcraft not too far from me where I bought this Woodriver Rabbet Bit Set. It has bearings to do 1/8" - 1/2" cuts at 1/16" increments. Ended up working great!

I did raw veneer from veneersupplies.com using the iron on method. Its a book matched curly walnut, beautiful.

Those look great and so does that Walnut! I'm jealous you've actually listened to yours. What a concept :E ! I've heard from others on the forum that the sound is great so I don't anticipate any sort of let down. I think the journey will make them sound that much sweeter .

[Unclejunebug]

Well, I didn't meet my goal of finishing my speakers before my daughter was born. She came a little earlier than expected, maybe she just really wanted help :P .

The cabinets and stained and sealed and I now just need to repaint the vent and mount the drivers and terminal cups so I'm very very close to being done. I have a few simple questions before moving on though...

1.) The drivers have a foam gasket with a peel and stick backing. Should the gasket be stuck to the back of the driver or should it be stuck to the cabinet?

2.) The tweeters don't have this gasket. Should something be used between the tweeter and cabinet to create a seal? Some silicone maybe?

[Unclejunebug]

So I found some time to get these done about a week ago but haven't been able to take pictures until now. I have to say I'm very pleased with how the finished look turned out and, more importantly, with how the sound!

My main concern going into the build was whether or not a 5" speaker could produce what I consider to be a decent level of low end. Being a drummer I tend to pay more attention to bass, kick drum, and other lower end rhythm section parts in songs. I initially contacted Paul and asked him about what the design was capable of. He mentioned the drivers were quite capable of producing the lower end and even more capable with a larger cabinet. After some thought, I decided that the designer knew these drivers waaaaaay better than I do and since this was my first build I would just build it as initially designed to keep things simple. And boy am I glad that I did!

On first listen I turned off my subwoofer to hear just the speakers themselves and I was very very impressed with the low end that these produce. I didn't find myself missing the subwoofer at all really and I haven't turned it back on yet . I've been rather blown away with the quality and the range that these speakers produce and couldn't be happier.

Now all I have to is find time to build the center channel and surrounds to complete the set! A big thanks to all who offered advice along the way! Here's some pics...

[fwiler]

Congratulations on the newborn! I know its hard to keep everyone happy when doing projects.

Beautiful job on these speakers and I love the finish you picked.

[Ntruder]

I used a rabbeting bit to do the trimming. I figured I'd have to buy some tools for this build so I decided to add to my router bag o' tricks. There's a Woodcraft not too far from me where I bought this Woodriver Rabbet Bit Set. It has bearings to do 1/8" - 1/2" cuts at 1/16" increments. Ended up working great!

So you cut the openings too small and rabbeted the holes after the fact? That's a great idea, and sounds a lot easier than the way I've always done that; all with a circle jig, cutting down at different depths

[Unclejunebug]

So you cut the openings too small and rabbeted the holes after the fact? That's a great idea, and sounds a lot easier than the way I've always done that; all with a circle jig, cutting down at different depths

Yeah, I cut the openings to fit the driver as if it was going to surface mounted and then used the rabbet bit at the right depth to trim back and allow for flush mounting. It seemed to work ok, but the only draw back is you need a rabbet bit that trims just the right amount for your driver as I assume that amount will differ from speaker to speaker.

I hadn't thought about doing it the way you suggested, I might give that a shot in my next build.

[Ntruder]

Yeah, I cut the openings to fit the driver as if it was going to surface mounted and then used the rabbet bit at the right depth to trim back and allow for flush mounting. It seemed to work ok, but the only draw back is you need a rabbet bit that trims just the right amount for your driver as I assume that amount will differ from speaker to speaker.

Yeah I knew that was how you cut the hole sizes, just wasn't sure how to word it so I just wrote "too small."

I hadn't thought about doing it the way you suggested, I might give that a shot in my next build.

It works well with a plunge router, but it is time consuming. I use a 1/4" straight dado bit, which means I have to make like 3-4 passes to create a half inch or 5/8" wide recess, and then I have to do another pass for the cut all the way through. Lots of cutting, lots of dust, lots of holding my breath, very unpleasant.