How I've added HDMI 1.3 high bitrate audio decoding to my Parasound C1

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  • slayer
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2005
    • 216

    #46
    Are you still using your PS3 for BluRay?
    In essence, the Halo (other than volume) does nothing for the audio when watching blurays?
    I only have 4 real sources. PS3, Xbox 360, CD/DVD Audio, & an over the air HD receiver for Local HD TV. The C2 handles them all fine other than the PS3 and HDMI switching. With my CD decoding being done by a MF Tri-Vista Dac.... I wonder if a simple A/V receiver is even a downgrade at this point??? Not like the C2 is even doing much other than for the legacy DD/DTS I'm still using. Maybe swapping it out for an A/V receiver will be a wash in all areas and a huge upgrade on HD Audio from BluRays???? Hmmm
    I see how yours is still needed but mine may not be. Kinda sad.
    Parasound Halo C2
    Earthquake Cinenova Grande (5ch amp)
    Crown X1000 (2ch amp)
    Oppo BDP103
    Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 21 Tube DAC
    Xbox One
    Monster Cable Signiture Series HTPS 7000
    Panasonic 60" ST Series Plasma
    BenQ HT1075 projector w/ 92" Dragonfly screen
    Energy Veritas 2.2i fronts
    Energy Veritas 2.0i center
    CAT Tiburon series side surround
    Energy E-XL 15 rear surround
    Velodyne SMS-1
    Custom 15" sealed sub (Diamond Audio TDX15)

    Comment

    • Chris D
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Dec 2000
      • 16877

      #47
      Yeah, all this time after buying one of the first PS3's, and it's still doing awesome as my primary BD player. That's definitely a testament to Sony and their treatment of the PS3.

      As for the Halo, yes, when I'm watching BD's, it's just a straight pass-through of the audio through the 7.1 analog jacks, only changing volume. All the decoding and processing is taking place in the Denon receiver that I'm using as an outboard HDMI decoder and processor.
      CHRIS

      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
      - Pleasantville

      Comment

      • slayer
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2005
        • 216

        #48
        So in my system is it even worth keeping the Halo? If I use an A/V receiver for BluRay, not sure what else the Halo will do at that point. CD's get decoded by my MF Tri-Vista Tube Dac. Only other sources are XBOX and an off air HDTV receiver which I only fire up now and then. Don't watch TV much anymore obviously. Almost makes sense to just sell the Halo and put it towards an A/V receiver or another pre/pro that will decode HD audio. Sad. It's been a real workhorse with no issues.
        Parasound Halo C2
        Earthquake Cinenova Grande (5ch amp)
        Crown X1000 (2ch amp)
        Oppo BDP103
        Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 21 Tube DAC
        Xbox One
        Monster Cable Signiture Series HTPS 7000
        Panasonic 60" ST Series Plasma
        BenQ HT1075 projector w/ 92" Dragonfly screen
        Energy Veritas 2.2i fronts
        Energy Veritas 2.0i center
        CAT Tiburon series side surround
        Energy E-XL 15 rear surround
        Velodyne SMS-1
        Custom 15" sealed sub (Diamond Audio TDX15)

        Comment

        • Kevin P
          Member
          • Aug 2000
          • 10809

          #49
          I know this thread is several years old, and the Denon was probably the best option back in 2008. Now, if someone wanted to do something along the same lines, I would consider the new Outlaw 975 pre-pro. It's only $549 and offers all the HDMI and HD audio goodies. Either to replace the Parasound or supplement it like you did with the Denon.

          Comment

          • Chris D
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Dec 2000
            • 16877

            #50
            slayer, that'd be up to you whether you keep the Halo. For me, I still wanted it to be my primary A/V switcher, on top of other things like the high-end audio clarity, still an awesome centerpiece of my system, etc. If I do get a Parasound zDAC, I'll still be using the C1 as the primary audio switcher, and just taking the HDMI audio inputs from the outboard decoder. (currently the Denon)

            As Kev points out, there are newer options that are available, and I'd also choose something like that, if I created the setup today. That way, you'd get the absolute latest technology if you wanted to use it, such as DPL IIz. Heck, depending on what you want to do with the video path, you could even add video processing that way, upscaling to 2k4k, etc.

            But just me and my own choice, if I were to consider setting up a setup like that today, I'd still absolutely keep my C1, no doubt about it.
            CHRIS

            Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
            - Pleasantville

            Comment

            • blownrx7
              Member
              • Dec 2004
              • 96

              #51
              Hey Chris,
              Question for you or anyone that can enlighten me here.
              If I let my source, such as the Oppo, do the video decoding and pipe the hdmi video directly to my projector, can I just take the digital out from the player directly to the C1/C2 and let the C1/C2 do the audio decoding?
              I know I lose the simple source switching capability by doing this, but, if I only have one source, do I lose anything else?
              TIA

              Comment

              • Peter Nielsen
                Super Senior Member
                • Sep 2004
                • 1188

                #52
                Originally posted by blownrx7
                can I just take the digital out from the player directly to the C1/C2 and let the C1/C2 do the audio decoding?
                Yes, you can, but you won't be able to use HD audio formats (DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD) as they can't be transferred over a single run of S/PDIF or TosLink.

                Comment

                • madmac
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2010
                  • 3122

                  #53
                  Originally posted by Peter Nielsen
                  Yes, you can, but you won't be able to use HD audio formats (DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD) as they can't be transferred over a single run of S/PDIF or TosLink.

                  Agreed and correct. :T
                  Dan Madden :T

                  Comment

                  • Chris D
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Dec 2000
                    • 16877

                    #54
                    Correct. A few players and switchers now have duplicate HDMI outputs, though, and you could run one to the projector, and the other to a HDMI audio receiver or decoder. Then, if you use the setup like me, output the audio over 7.1 analog to the Parasound unit.

                    Or if you get the new Oppo BD player (which looks sweet, BTW) it has an onboard audio decoder, and you could just output 7.1 analog direct to your C1/C2. Plus, it even has digital inputs, to use its DAC for other sources.
                    CHRIS

                    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                    - Pleasantville

                    Comment

                    • Peter Nielsen
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Sep 2004
                      • 1188

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Chris D
                      Or if you get the new Oppo BD player (which looks sweet, BTW) it has an onboard audio decoder, and you could just output 7.1 analog direct to your C1/C2.
                      This is the way to go. :T You can't go wrong with the Oppos! I recently upgraded my 93 & 95 to the new 103 & 105.

                      FWIW, You don't need the latest Oppo. The 83, 93, 95, 103, and 105 can all decode HD formats and output 7.1 analog.

                      Unfortunately this results in an additional A-D-A conversion inside the Halo, but IMHO it's not audible. If you can't accept the additional conversion, then your only option is to upgrade the Halo prepro to an Onkyo 5509 or similar unit.

                      Oh, and of course you have the option to run BOTH analog 7.1 and digital to Halo. Then you use analog for your HD material and digital for everything else that can be transferred digitally over S/PDIF. :^x

                      Comment

                      • Chris D
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Dec 2000
                        • 16877

                        #56
                        Now, Peter, the Halo 7.1 inputs are straight pass-through without processing. So are you sure there's an A-D-A conversion?
                        CHRIS

                        Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                        - Pleasantville

                        Comment

                        • Peter Nielsen
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Sep 2004
                          • 1188

                          #57
                          Originally posted by Chris D
                          Now, Peter, the Halo 7.1 inputs are straight pass-through without processing. So are you sure there's an A-D-A conversion?
                          No, I stand corrected! I just reviewed the manual and found this:

                          7.1: Switches to the C 2 Controller’s 7.1-channel analog unbalanced inputs, for use with multichannel
                          DVD-Audio and SACD players, or any future components that do their own surround
                          decoding. Like the “Bypass” mode for the balanced inputs, this is a direct pass-through mode,
                          with no processing except the precision analog volume control, for maximum signal purity.
                          Of course, if you use the 7.1 bypass mode it is important to remember that you will need to set up speaker distances, levels, and bass management in the Oppo too, as the Halo won't do any processing in bypass mode.

                          Comment

                          • slayer
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2005
                            • 216

                            #58
                            Thanks for the list of Oppo players that have 7.1 outs. This has been what I wanted to do for some time now. Just not sure on which models offer the bass mgnt, distance, trim..... Is there a certain model that has what's needed being we are using the Halo?
                            Parasound Halo C2
                            Earthquake Cinenova Grande (5ch amp)
                            Crown X1000 (2ch amp)
                            Oppo BDP103
                            Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 21 Tube DAC
                            Xbox One
                            Monster Cable Signiture Series HTPS 7000
                            Panasonic 60" ST Series Plasma
                            BenQ HT1075 projector w/ 92" Dragonfly screen
                            Energy Veritas 2.2i fronts
                            Energy Veritas 2.0i center
                            CAT Tiburon series side surround
                            Energy E-XL 15 rear surround
                            Velodyne SMS-1
                            Custom 15" sealed sub (Diamond Audio TDX15)

                            Comment

                            • Peter Nielsen
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Sep 2004
                              • 1188

                              #59
                              Originally posted by slayer
                              Thanks for the list of Oppo players that have 7.1 outs. This has been what I wanted to do for some time now. Just not sure on which models offer the bass mgnt, distance, trim..... Is there a certain model that has what's needed being we are using the Halo?
                              All those models have it. However, the 83, 93 and 95 are discontinued. The current models are the 103 ($500) and 105 ($1200)

                              The difference between the 103 and 105 is that the latter has a better analog out section (better DACs) and a headphone output. In all other respects the units are identical - same firmware and feature set. If you plan on keeping your Halo prepro, then the 105 is the better choice. However, if you plan on switching the Halo for an Onkyo or similar unit with HDMI, then the 103 is all you need.

                              Comment

                              • Chris D
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Dec 2000
                                • 16877

                                #60
                                Bump 2 years later, and 6 years since I made the original post. I'm still using this same setup in my theater after all these years, with minor changes like upgrading PS3 to PS4. Still going strong and getting the latest and greatest in performance.

                                Only thing I'm considering is upgrading the Denon outboard decoder/receiver to a current model with the latest processing like Dolby Atmos.
                                CHRIS

                                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                - Pleasantville

                                Comment

                                • Kevin P
                                  Member
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 10809

                                  #61
                                  You know what would be nice, would be to have a pre-pro that has a decoder card in it, that can be pulled and replaced with a newer version when newer audio formats or HDMI revisions come along. Then you're not having to replace your entire pre-pro everytime they come out with some new bell or whistle. Just swap out the card. But barring that, the Chris method of using an inexpensive receiver as a decoder is more cost effective, since that's the only piece you have to replace to get up to date again.

                                  Comment

                                  • Chris D
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Dec 2000
                                    • 16877

                                    #62
                                    The tech innovation and upgrade bugs never stop, that's for sure. I went searching for possible receiver upgrades, and the Marantz AV7702 processor looks like an AWESOME choice for the latest bells and whistles, including Dolby Atmos.
                                    Shop the Marantz™ official site. Founded by legendary acoustic expert Saul Marantz. Discover exceptional AV with our receivers, amplifiers, & more.


                                    I'm going to at least hold off on serious consideration until March 2015, though, as DTS is about to release their version of Dolby Atmos, which likely will be called DTS:X. Don't want to get caught up in another round of "this has the Dolby processing, but won't decode DTS discs".

                                    Of course, the obvious question at some point is going to be, when buying a new receiver/processor that's good enough, why even keep the old C1 processor at all? I guess as much as it cost to begin with, it's just tough to let go. Resale probably really low now. And I sure still love how it looks in my rack with all my other Halo gear.
                                    CHRIS

                                    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                    - Pleasantville

                                    Comment

                                    • Lex
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Apr 2001
                                      • 27461

                                      #63
                                      Chris, don't get too caught up in the marketing side of sound. You and I both know there's only so many different ways you can slice and dice 5.1 or 7.1. So you move a few frequency waves this way or that. Overall, in the grand scheme of things. I'll still hang onto my old Lexicon MC-12 processor with THX/DTS/Logic 7 processing, hold the bells and whistles. I don't have HDMI switching. No problem, I handled that for $120.00 at Radio Shack. Sure, it's a little more inconvenient. But I don't have to give up my broadcast quality sound that my processor was famous for. I'll use it until they pry it from my cold .... you know. Well, or it has a major meltdown, which I hope never happens. But if it does, I expect I will downgrade to receiver quality audio for listening to movies, and try to beef up a 2 channel rig. That's where I am headed.

                                      I love home theater. But at this point, I have little time for much more than a movie a week, if that. I watch a few shows I like, and let the rest go for now. Limited time, limits what I can do with that time.

                                      Enjoy your C1, that's what I say.
                                      Doug
                                      "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                                      Comment

                                      • Chris D
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Dec 2000
                                        • 16877

                                        #64
                                        I see what you're saying, Doug, when it comes to coming up with newer processing of 5.1 or 7.1. Just improved ways of delivering sound from the same discrete channels. However, Dolby Atmos (and the soon-to-be-announced DTS equivalent) adds a whole new dimension of sound by finally adding discrete (and processed) ceiling speakers. If you get a chance to get a properly setup Atmos demo, do take it! It's worthwhile.

                                        I'm sooooo tempted to grab the Marantz AV7702. But I do want to at least see what DTS announces next month.
                                        CHRIS

                                        Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                        - Pleasantville

                                        Comment

                                        • Chris D
                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                          • Dec 2000
                                          • 16877

                                          #65
                                          Well, 6 years after I did this setup and posted this thread, and 12 years or so after I originally got my C1, I've finally reached a tipping point. I took advantage of a screaming deal on Panasonic's PT-AE8000 projector sale for $1,499, which added 3D to my theater. In setup, though, I discovered that because the Denon AVR-2808ci I'm using in this thread is HDMI 1.3 compliant, it can't pass 3D. I can run an HDMI cable direct from my BD player to the PJ, but not through the processor first. So I can get HD audio tracks or 3D, but not both.

                                          If it was just 3D, that wouldn't be that important to me. But with Atmos out now, DTS's object-based 3D audio format coming next month, and my current issue of tracking down low-level distortion in my audio path, I think the time may has come for me to replace my C1 and the outboard HDMI decoder with a complete new HDMI 2.0 AVR processor solution. I'll still keep my Halo amps and all other Halo gear. Heck, I may even keep my C1 in my rack because it looks so damn pretty along with my other Halo gear. Use it for A/V in another room, or keep for other purposes.

                                          Soooo... what's it going to be? I'm still SO tempted to buy a Marantz AVR 7702. There's even a guy I found that would sell me a NISB unit for $1500 + shipping that he bought and doesn't want. But it would be best if I can hold out for a month or more until the next models come out that include DTS's object-based audio. DTS is releasing their product March 2015, with equipment manufacturers to follow. Wish I had a ton of spare money, but not the case right now.
                                          CHRIS

                                          Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                          - Pleasantville

                                          Comment

                                          • MykalSpencer
                                            Junior Member
                                            • Apr 2015
                                            • 2

                                            #66
                                            Originally posted by Chris D
                                            Well, 6 years after I did this setup and posted this thread, and 12 years or so after I originally got my C1, I've finally reached a tipping point. I took advantage of a screaming deal on Panasonic's PT-AE8000 projector sale for $1,499, which added 3D to my theater. In setup, though, I discovered that because the Denon AVR-2808ci I'm using in this thread is HDMI 1.3 compliant, it can't pass 3D. I can run an HDMI cable direct from my BD player to the PJ, but not through the processor first. So I can get HD audio tracks or 3D, but not both.

                                            If it was just 3D, that wouldn't be that important to me. But with Atmos out now, DTS's object-based 3D audio format coming next month, and my current issue of tracking down low-level distortion in my audio path, I think the time may has come for me to replace my C1 and the outboard HDMI decoder with a complete new HDMI 2.0 AVR processor solution. I'll still keep my Halo amps and all other Halo gear. Heck, I may even keep my C1 in my rack because it looks so damn pretty along with my other Halo gear. Use it for A/V in another room, or keep for other purposes.

                                            Soooo... what's it going to be? I'm still SO tempted to buy a Marantz AVR 7702. There's even a guy I found that would sell me a NISB unit for $1500 + shipping that he bought and doesn't want. But it would be best if I can hold out for a month or more until the next models come out that include DTS's object-based audio. DTS is releasing their product March 2015, with equipment manufacturers to follow. Wish I had a ton of spare money, but not the case right now.
                                            Hi Chris, I was wondering if you could give me some advice based on your knowledge and experience on Parasound EQ. I've been looking at buying a Parasound C2 controller, but I'm wondering if I would be gaining anything considering I have a Marantz SR6007 AVR, Halo A52, Halo A23 in my sound works. In your post you're considering upgrading to a higher end Marantz 7702, which is no doubt an upgrage to the SR6007 I believe which is 2 years old? My question is this; Is there any benefit in quality of sound the C2 would have in my system besides looking pretty sexy beside my other Parasound gear? I think you mentioned there would be more bass control with the C2 and I might be able to use the Balanced connectors, but the Marantz only has unbalanced, so this may be a disadvantage right there for me. Asking price is $800.00 for the C2 which is a bit high possibly. I know you speak highly of the C2 and it appears from what I've been reading in your thread here the C2 is outdated in some ways, without HDMI connects, up-scaling etc but back to my original question, do you think there is any benefit to spend this money on the C2 or would the sound be just as good with what I have already?

                                            thanks much!
                                            Mike

                                            Comment

                                            • Chris D
                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                              • Dec 2000
                                              • 16877

                                              #67
                                              Hey, Mike! Welcome to the Guide and Club Parasound. :banana:

                                              The answer to your question is, yes, there could be benefits, but you need to know what you're gaining and losing. The C2 is a $3,000 high fidelity A/V pre/pro, that is now about 12 years old. I have not experienced the exact model of the SR6007 myself. But given what I've experienced of the Marantz line, I would hazard an educated guess that the SR6007 is a good, solid unit, and the C2 would be a step up in sonic clarity from the SR6007, for the analog, coax digital, and optical digital sources that you would connect directly to the C2 instead of the SR6007. But as you note, the C2 lacks all technology developed in the last 9 years or so.

                                              I assume that you're not currently using the amplification in the SR6007, and are only using the pre-outs to your Halo amps. So are you thinking of doing what I did in this thread, and use the SR6007 as an outboard HDMI decoder, for the C2 which would become your main processor? If so, adding the C2 would not add any benefit to the HDMI audio (or video) that you'd be passing through the SR6007. As I mentioned, it could only potentially make the other audio sources clearer that you would connect direct to the C2 and bypass the SR6007.

                                              If, on the other hand, you're looking to **replace** the Marantz with the C2, you'd have to realize and accept that you'd be losing all HDMI decoding capability. In today's home theater world, that'd be a huge loss, as all modern and future HT technologies are using HDMI. (until they develop an HDMI replacement)

                                              My personal advice - if it were me, at this point, I'd stick with the SR6007, and plan out your next upgrade to simply replace the SR6007. If you can afford it now, you could go with the Marantz 7702, which I have to say is an AMAZING unit and an incredible value for what it does. PM me if you're considering buying one. Other A/V units with Atmos are also options, but so far the 7702 is the best of the bunch I've found. Otherwise, models with the DTS:X audio format will be out this fall, and would be good time to buy things then.

                                              Stand by for a post on what I'm doing next, when I get time to post it up.
                                              CHRIS

                                              Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                              - Pleasantville

                                              Comment

                                              • MykalSpencer
                                                Junior Member
                                                • Apr 2015
                                                • 2

                                                #68
                                                Hey Chris, good to be here thanks!

                                                Just to give you a little more of my intentions in seeking a practical application combining the C2 into what I have already, yes I would basically do what you did, have the Marantz as the decoder for the C2. Rather than replace the Marantz with the C2 (no I would be giving up a lot not having all HDMI decoding capability I need it!).

                                                From my limited understanding (as I am learning at a rapid rate some of the basics here) it would be good to utilize the HDMI on the Marantz for most sources as you say and as you have done in your set-up. If I could use the balance inputs and outputs on the Parasound C2 and my A52 that would be the first good improvement. (the Marantz SR6007 does not have balanced connections unfortunately, which may speak of more reason to upgrade to the 7702).

                                                Also I'm more interested in audiophile quality sound for music than I am for movies, but in any way I could use the C-2 to enhance sound whether that is utilizing the "analog, coax digital, and optical digital sources that you would connect directly to the C2 instead" as you say. Any DVD Blu-Ray movies from the Blu-ray player would have to be decoded (I have a 3d Panasonic Viera plasma TV) so I'll need the Marantz decoding capabilities and HDMI for video, but I'm wondering if I could do a bypass from the C-2 for sound, if I'm correct the sound would have to be run from the analog outputs on the Blu-ray to the Analog input on the C2? Somewhere the amp has to be connected, I'm assuming it would be after the Marantz for most HDMI sources, but I also have the other A23 2ch amp I could run off the C2 for strictly stereo usage. Either way the amp in each setup will be last piece of equipment to the speakers.

                                                Right now I have analog connections hooked up on Blue-ray going to the SR6007 Blue-ray analog inputs for my Zone-2 sound and I have the HDMI hooked up as well. My Parasound A23 powers the Zone-2 speakers from the Zone 2 pre-outs on the SR6007. The C2 as a "Controller" may have excellent benefits in bass management as well. That seems to be a weak spot in most the new integrated amps these days is not being able to control bass and treble like we seen in equalizers in days gone by. My SR6007 gives only 5 choices of decoded sound including the Pure setting which is not that good in my opinion. So one of my real beefs has been for these controls to set the levels as we like them individually to our own preferences.

                                                So this leads me to look at the money picture(pro's and con's) vs the 2 options. Buy the C-2 and use what I have or just upgrade to the 7702 Marantz or even wait till fall for the DTS:X release. Considering I should upgrade anyway this would be the cheaper of 2 options. Selling the SR6007 would put $500-$600 towards the upgrade and savings of $700 on the C2 nets me $1300 towards the upgrade. It appears to make more common sense as I write this and the fact you yourself are considering upgrading too after all this time with the C2 says something!

                                                Do you think the musical sound will be as good, superior or equivalent to the C2 on the 7702? This is what' it's all about isn't it?

                                                Mike

                                                Comment

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