VituixCAD v2

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  • kimmosto
    Moderator
    • Dec 2006
    • 584

    Originally posted by Nordo
    The only reason I was asking was that after playing with the VCAD settings for a while, I decided to load one of Kimmo's demo files and play with it.
    But then I noticed that a lot of the settings in the files I mentioned above were similar to the way I had left them after playing with them.
    Both demo projects were saved with version 2.0.48.1 (2020-04-14). Old project files don't include all settings the latest versions save. For example if you save Epe-3W_demo_V2 with the latest revision, totally 240 lines in project file (vxp) will be changed. So there is no simple answer. Best to verify that Options window has settings suitable for the project, and then save with the latest revision to include as much as possible.
    VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

    Comment

    • Nordo
      Junior Member
      • Jun 2022
      • 12

      Originally posted by kimmosto
      Both demo projects were saved with version 2.0.48.1 (2020-04-14). Old project files don't include all settings the latest versions save. For example if you save Epe-3W_demo_V2 with the latest revision, totally 240 lines in project file (vxp) will be changed. So there is no simple answer. Best to verify that Options window has settings suitable for the project, and then save with the latest revision to include as much as possible.
      Thanks Kimmo.:5:
      I was really just trying to see what settings you use (in Options, Preference Ratings & Optimizer) when you do a typical two way design - which is what I will be doing.
      I've just got to read your Help file again. Every time I read it, I learn something new.

      Comment

      • mecedo
        Junior Member
        • Jun 2022
        • 11

        Hiding drivers individual responses from charts

        Kimmo. I can't hide individual drivers responses on SPL and "GD & Phase" charts in "Traces" window. Is it intended or is it a bug? I've tried compare simulation phase (grey) with measured on overlay (orange dashed) but it's very hard.
        Click image for larger version

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        Comment

        • Reet
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2007
          • 511

          Originally posted by mecedo
          Kimmo. I can't hide individual drivers responses on SPL and "GD & Phase" charts in "Traces" window. Is it intended or is it a bug? I've tried compare simulation phase (grey) with measured on overlay (orange dashed) but it's very hard.
          [ATTACH=CONFIG]32288[/ATTACH]
          Use the "hide traces for selected driver" buttons on the crossover schematic.
          https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

          Comment

          • mecedo
            Junior Member
            • Jun 2022
            • 11

            Yes. I found it right after my post Maybe in future releases you can grey-out individual drivers checkboxes on traces window? It's rather cosmetic, but seems more natural as software behavior.

            Comment

            • kimmosto
              Moderator
              • Dec 2006
              • 584

              Originally posted by mecedo
              Maybe in future releases you can grey-out individual drivers checkboxes on traces window? It's rather cosmetic, but seems more natural as software behavior.
              I can gray-out something. DataGridView control does not natively support grayed check symbol and square frame with ReadOnly status so it requires quite ridiculous amount of custom code.
              VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

              Comment

              • kimmosto
                Moderator
                • Dec 2006
                • 584

                2.0.88.0 (2022-07-03)

                Main
                * Driver's name in crossover schematic has the same color with driver's magnitude traces.
                * Show and Line width columns in Traces window are disabled for driver traces because properties are controlled via Drivers tab and driver instance in XO.

                Enclosure
                * Added data labels for f3, f6, f10, GDmax, Pmax, Vmax of vents, Xmax of cone and PR, Zmin, Zmax.
                VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                Comment

                • Reet
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2007
                  • 511

                  Originally posted by kimmosto
                  Enclosure
                  * Added data labels for f3, f6, f10, GDmax, Pmax, Vmax of vents, Xmax of cone and PR, Zmin, Zmax.
                  I would love to see the option to turn off this clutter, for those of us who are happy to find this information on the info tab and have clean text free charts.
                  https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                  Comment

                  • JonMarsh
                    Mad Max Moderator
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 15259

                    Originally posted by Reet
                    I would love to see the option to turn off this clutter, for those of us who are happy to find this information on the info tab and have clean text free charts.
                    Export the data to Excel or Numbers and format the chart any way you wish...
                    the AudioWorx
                    Natalie P
                    M8ta
                    Modula Neo DCC
                    Modula MT XE
                    Modula Xtreme
                    Isiris
                    Wavecor Ardent

                    SMJ
                    Minerva Monitor
                    Calliope
                    Ardent D

                    In Development...
                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                    Obi-Wan
                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                    Modula PWB
                    Calliope CC Supreme
                    Natalie P Ultra
                    Natalie P Supreme
                    Janus BP1 Sub


                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                    Comment

                    • Reet
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 511

                      No thank you. Why don't we get rid of the text, and if you want to add it, export to excel or take a screenshot and have at 'er? Or...there could be a checkbox option in the software and the user can decide what they want to see.
                      https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                      Comment

                      • kimmosto
                        Moderator
                        • Dec 2006
                        • 584

                        Originally posted by Reet
                        I would love to see the option to turn off this clutter..
                        That will happen. Maybe with 'Data labels' checkbox above the graphs.
                        Data labels/callouts are more convenient and faster to use than looking Info tab while system adjustments, but I know that clean charts may be needed for some purposes. Another possibility was separate window for statistics, but that would be as inconvenient as previous database filter.
                        VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                        Comment

                        • kimmosto
                          Moderator
                          • Dec 2006
                          • 584

                          Originally posted by kimmosto
                          That will happen.
                          Done
                          VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                          Comment

                          • Reet
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2007
                            • 511

                            Originally posted by kimmosto
                            Done
                            That's perfect, thank you Kimmo!
                            https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                            Comment

                            • Guest

                              Hi all,

                              I just joined this forum as a Vituixcad user.
                              Should I post Vituixcad questions in this thread in a timeline, or post in a new thread?

                              BN

                              Comment

                              • Reet
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2007
                                • 511

                                Originally posted by bnilsson11
                                Hi all,

                                I just joined this forum as a Vituixcad user.
                                Should I post Vituixcad questions in this thread in a timeline, or post in a new thread?

                                BN
                                This thread is a fine place to start.
                                https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                Comment

                                • Guest

                                  Ok, thanks!

                                  I would like to simulate a cylindrical closed box cabinet for frequencies below 300-200Hz, 400mm in diameter and 700mm high, with a 10-inch driver mounted pointing upwards. I hope to make the baffle step "bug" work for me as a "feature" instead since the listener will only hear the 4pi or 2pi radiation. I am a relatively inexperienced Vituixcad user, but I have touched the basic stuff and simulated some regular type of configurations. Since this physical configuration is not exactly standard, I would like to ask for help on how to set it up, since there is a major risk that I misunderstand the vituixcad concepts when I go outside the mainstream. A step by step action list would be very helpful.
                                  Thanks in advance.

                                  BN

                                  Comment

                                  • Reet
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Dec 2007
                                    • 511

                                    Originally posted by bnilsson11
                                    I hope to make the baffle step "bug" work for me as a "feature" instead since the listener will only hear the 4pi or 2pi radiation.
                                    I don't know what you mean by this. You enclosure is a sealed box, tube shaped or not, below 200Hz you are squarely in the 4pi region. The tube shape will just require damping material to avoid pipe resonant modes of the enclosure. Tube enclosures are often used for subwoofers to reduce floor space usage without looking completely ridiculous. SVS PC-2000/4000 are a popular commercial example.

                                    You can of course use the diffraction tool here, It can be a little tedious to draw a circle for a baffle shape but you don't need very many points to get a decent diffraction approximation.

                                    The enclosure tool simulation provides a 2pi or "near field" type of response. You can bring the diffraction response directly to the enclosure tool to see the 4pi response, just export the diffraction response and the load it in the enclosure tool in the align tab at the bottom. I don't see much use to this task though, my personal recommendation would be to design the cab like any other speaker, design and measure full 360 degree data like any other speaker, then design crossover like any other speaker. For an upwards facing woofer, I personally would limit to subwoofer frequency range only, and probably down facing the floor for maximum room re-enforcement. However, lots of people enjoy the Linkwitz Pluto so who am I to judge.
                                    https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                    Comment

                                    • kimmosto
                                      Moderator
                                      • Dec 2006
                                      • 584

                                      Originally posted by Reet
                                      It can be a little tedious to draw a circle for a baffle shape...
                                      Circular is as easy as any other. Snap unchecked, Baffle Width=Height, 36 corners and click New.
                                      VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                      Comment

                                      • kimmosto
                                        Moderator
                                        • Dec 2006
                                        • 584

                                        2.0.88.4 (2022-07-31)

                                        Preference rating
                                        • Added slope target for PIR.

                                        2.0.88.3 (2022-07-30)

                                        Main
                                        • Added Move driver up and down arrow buttons to Drivers tab.

                                        2.0.88.2 (2022-07-30)

                                        Main
                                        • Absorption dB of Front wall duplicated as read-only for Left wall in Room tab.
                                        Preference rating
                                        • Multipliers of LFX and LFQ included in first parameter of custom equation to avoid drop of rating when 'With sub' is unchecked.

                                        2.0.88.1 (2022-07-03)

                                        Enclosure
                                        • Added 'Data labels' checkbox.
                                        • Removed value parameters V1, V2, V3, V4, V5 from drivers database.
                                        • Removed text parameters T1, T2, T3, T4, T5 from drivers database.
                                        VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                        Comment

                                        • Reet
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Dec 2007
                                          • 511

                                          Good news for REW users - the next version of REW will include support for full dual channel measurement, not just a timing reference. You can download a preview here and give it a try:
                                          V5.20.10/11 Early Access release There are more changes in V5.20.10 than is usually the case for the minor releases, so I am providing an early access version here for feedback ahead of the formal release. Windows 64-bit Windows 32-bit MacOS Linux AMD64 Linux no JRE (for non-AMD64 linux...


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                                          https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                          Comment

                                          • mecedo
                                            Junior Member
                                            • Jun 2022
                                            • 11

                                            Kimmo. I've read "VituixCAD Measurement Preparations CLIO.pdf" but I'm using Arta software. I have two questions after read:
                                            You have mentioned to use microphone calibration file with max 100 frequency points. Is it limitation in CLIO software? I'm using calibration file with 800 point in VituixCAD. Is it ok?
                                            You are recommending to use Sampling Frequency 96 kHz. I like to measure with 192kHz SR because of better phase resolution. Do you recommend it only for better system performance during designing in VituixCAD?

                                            Comment

                                            • kimmosto
                                              Moderator
                                              • Dec 2006
                                              • 584

                                              Originally posted by mecedo
                                              You have mentioned to use microphone calibration file with max 100 frequency points. Is it limitation in CLIO software?
                                              Limit of 100 points is in CLIO. VituixCAD accepts calibration files with "millions" of data points.
                                              P.S. Calibration file is not needed inside ARTA and CLIO when following instructions because conversion from IR file to frequency response is done by 'Convert IR to FR' in VituixCAD.
                                              VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                              Comment

                                              • augerpro
                                                Super Senior Member
                                                • Aug 2006
                                                • 1866

                                                It would be great if Dueland filter was included in a future version
                                                ~Brandon 8O
                                                Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                                                Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                                                DriverVault
                                                Soma Sonus

                                                Comment

                                                • kimmosto
                                                  Moderator
                                                  • Dec 2006
                                                  • 584

                                                  Originally posted by augerpro
                                                  It would be great if Dueland filter was included in a future version
                                                  I will add at least targets. See below. Library blocks are also possible, but as already said, filter itself as active and/or passive library blocks is not very useful/practical due to driver responses in real life.
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                                                  VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                  Comment

                                                  • augerpro
                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                    • Aug 2006
                                                    • 1866

                                                    I understand, thanks. I would be using these to model responses with idealized drivers in the conceptual stage, so having the filter included would at least eliminate the need to first build and then optimize some combination of other filters to get the Dueland response.
                                                    ~Brandon 8O
                                                    Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                                                    Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                                                    DriverVault
                                                    Soma Sonus

                                                    Comment

                                                    • kimmosto
                                                      Moderator
                                                      • Dec 2006
                                                      • 584

                                                      2.0.88.5 (2022-08-03)

                                                      Optimizer
                                                      • Added targets for Duelund filter.

                                                      One library block added for theoretical studies. Name is 'Active 3-way Duelund'. f and Q parameters for each stage of BP (filler mid band) are approximations, but not far from exact values. a parameter is limited between 2 and 8.
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                                                      VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                      Comment

                                                      • augerpro
                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                        • Aug 2006
                                                        • 1866

                                                        Thanks!
                                                        ~Brandon 8O
                                                        Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                                                        Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                                                        DriverVault
                                                        Soma Sonus

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Evil Twin
                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                          • Nov 2004
                                                          • 1531

                                                          Interesting, most interesting!

                                                          Now, it would only be necessary for me to truly embrace the Dark Side and active filters... beyond the analog world.
                                                          DFAL
                                                          Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                          A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Reet
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Dec 2007
                                                            • 511

                                                            There's a minor bug with the recently implemented driver database filtering in the Enclosure Tool. If you enter a value in the "max" row, hitting the enter key on the keyboard will scroll the list up by 1 row, hiding the max row and placing the min row in the max label. This is correctable only by using the arrow keys on the keyboard. Additionally, using the arrow keys can move the rows accordingly as well.
                                                            https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                                            Comment

                                                            • kimmosto
                                                              Moderator
                                                              • Dec 2006
                                                              • 584

                                                              Originally posted by Reet
                                                              If you enter a value in the "max" row, hitting the enter key on the keyboard will scroll the list up by 1 row.
                                                              There is some rounding with font rendering. What is screen resolution and scaling in display settings? I have Win11 Pro, screen resolution 3840x2180, scaling 200 %. That renders exactly like native 1920x1080 with 100 % scaling. One extra pixel below filter lines takes care that rows don't scroll after value is entered to max field.
                                                              VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Reet
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Dec 2007
                                                                • 511

                                                                Windows 10, 3440x1440, scaling 100%, should be the normal configuration for most users. Oddly enough, I am unable to reproduce this today. I'll have to spend some more time with it and determine what steps are required to reproduce this behaviour.
                                                                https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                                                Comment

                                                                • kimmosto
                                                                  Moderator
                                                                  • Dec 2006
                                                                  • 584

                                                                  Height of filter grid is increased from 48 to 49 pixels in the latest build (2022-08-17). It should have more tolerance to random rounding errors related to fonts.
                                                                  VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Reet
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • Dec 2007
                                                                    • 511

                                                                    Perfect, thank you!
                                                                    https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • tktran
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • Jan 2005
                                                                      • 658

                                                                      Hi Kimmo,

                                                                      Feature request: colorized polar map. Inspired by Erin Hardison @ www.erinsaudiocorner.com

                                                                      Please see post:

                                                                      https://www.diyaudio.com/community/t...0/post-7097718

                                                                      Erin uses a simplified view: 1 color representing 3dB variation, and 2/3 octave scaling per large division, and has fixed on this for the purpose of allowing comparisons for his speaker reviews.

                                                                      However, may I suggest for speaker design?

                                                                      A) logarithmic frequency scaling, with adjustable frequency range (already implemented in VituixCAD2), eg. 20Hz to 20000Hz.
                                                                      B) graduated color scaling, adjustable (eg. 250 colours over 50dB scale)


                                                                      I believe this view gives useful information not seen in other views and may highlight important differences with monopolar, dipolar and cardioid speakers, or even waveguided 2 way speakers vs 3 way traditional speakers.

                                                                      Like you say, just because it is a waveguided speaker or coincidental/coaxial speaker, or has high preference score, doesn't automatically make it superior to traditional (boring) 3 or 4 way speaker high dynamic range speaker.
                                                                      Other aspects need to be considered.

                                                                      best wishes,
                                                                      Thanh

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • kimmosto
                                                                        Moderator
                                                                        • Dec 2006
                                                                        • 584

                                                                        Originally posted by tktran
                                                                        Feature request: colorized polar map. Inspired by Erin
                                                                        That graph is quite illogical / difficult to understand and not very valuable because visual weighting between LF and HF is not equal. LF is just single dot while HF has full circle with longest radius. In addition, comparing different speaker/directivity concepts is not valuable for designer. Designer is interested in balancing sound and directivity of speaker concept under design, and each concept has own requirements. One extra problem at least with VituixCAD would be that borders of level steps (~contour lines) are not measured facts. Measurements are done to predefined off-axis angles so response to each off-axis angle is the best fact. Everything else such as borders of level steps are results interpolation.
                                                                        So programming motivation and usefulness of the feature is very low compared to available time. VituixCAD has quite enough possibilities to visualize directivity. ASR and others have way too much directivity plots compared to other valuable graphical data.
                                                                        VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • kimmosto
                                                                          Moderator
                                                                          • Dec 2006
                                                                          • 584

                                                                          2.0.88.8 (2022-08-22)

                                                                          Optimizer
                                                                          • Speaker calculation is limited between frequency range limits.
                                                                          This speeds up optimizer.
                                                                          Last edited by kimmosto; 22 August 2022, 15:33 Monday.
                                                                          VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • kimmosto
                                                                            Moderator
                                                                            • Dec 2006
                                                                            • 584

                                                                            2.0.88.9 (2022-09-04)

                                                                            General
                                                                            • Logo is drawn to chart image copy and exported image file when 'Show logo' is checked in Options.
                                                                            Main
                                                                            • Crossover variant name added to 'Overlay name suffix' text box.
                                                                            VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • kimmosto
                                                                              Moderator
                                                                              • Dec 2006
                                                                              • 584

                                                                              Size of 'Overlay name suffix' text box changes automatically in the latest build. Truncated text is aligned right, and frequency range limits are anchored right.
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                                                                              VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Reet
                                                                                Senior Member
                                                                                • Dec 2007
                                                                                • 511

                                                                                In the Auxiliary Box volume section, I'd love to be able to lock all 3 cabinet dimensions, so the net volume is recalculated as I add in ports and braces, etc.
                                                                                https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • kimmosto
                                                                                  Moderator
                                                                                  • Dec 2006
                                                                                  • 584

                                                                                  Originally posted by Reet
                                                                                  In the Auxiliary Box volume section, I'd love to be able to lock all 3 cabinet dimensions, so the net volume is recalculated as I add in ports and braces, etc.
                                                                                  Done.
                                                                                  VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Reet
                                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                                    • Dec 2007
                                                                                    • 511

                                                                                    Perfect, thanks so much!
                                                                                    https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Reet
                                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                                      • Dec 2007
                                                                                      • 511

                                                                                      There is a small error when all 3 dimensions are locked, although the net volume is updated, the resonant frequency chart is not updated until one of the dimensions is unlocked and net volume adjusted. I find a similar behaviour when 2 dimensions are locked, adjusting the 3rd does not update the chart, however adjusting the net volume does.
                                                                                      https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • kimmosto
                                                                                        Moderator
                                                                                        • Dec 2006
                                                                                        • 584

                                                                                        Originally posted by Reet
                                                                                        There is a small error when all 3 dimensions are locked, although the net volume is updated, the resonant frequency chart is not updated until one of the dimensions is unlocked and net volume adjusted. I find a similar behaviour when 2 dimensions are locked, adjusting the 3rd does not update the chart, however adjusting the net volume does.
                                                                                        Better version available.
                                                                                        VituixCAD, Features, User manual, Measurements with CLIO, ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, Download

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Reet
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • Dec 2007
                                                                                          • 511

                                                                                          Much better!
                                                                                          https://discord.gg/h5SuNKDJfx

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • mecedo
                                                                                            Junior Member
                                                                                            • Jun 2022
                                                                                            • 11

                                                                                            Kimmo, can you improve adjusting delay in "Active gain/delay" block with mouse wheel? Currently adjusting with mouse wheel is useless because of lack of precision. For example: it jumps from 21us to 42us after one click whereas 1 or 2 us step is desired.

                                                                                            Comment

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