Started building some towers and a center, Anthology/Finalist

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  • YouTubeUniversi
    Junior Member
    • Aug 2021
    • 17

    Started building some towers and a center, Anthology/Finalist

    First time build. So far so good. Just have one tower left to sand and paint.

    The paint is just polished Krylon from lowes.

    Powering everything with a Pioneer SC-27 so it should be about 160 watts to each tower and 180 to the center. I would like to hear them with a separate power amp at some point to see if theres a difference but so far the few times I listened to them before paint and the receiver didnt have any problem running them into loud levels.

    I need to make some kinda stand for the center channel. I have some MDF left over I might try and make something with.

    Otherwise the room is going to be hit or miss. I have it setup so it's wider than deep. 22x17ft. I'm going to test it the other way and see how the towers sound. It's an extra room with a lot of brick walls and glass with aluminum ceiling. I just threw a bunch of curtains around and it toned down the reflections.

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    Last edited by theSven; 05 April 2023, 21:38 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location
  • rick844
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2019
    • 232

    #2
    Wow, really nice. I want to make that center but I'm limited on space at the moment.

    Comment

    • Jim Holtz
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Mar 2005
      • 3223

      #3
      Very nice job! They look great!

      Let us know what you think of the sound quality once they're set up and have 20+ hours on them.

      I hope you like them as much as I do!

      Jim

      Comment

      • YouTubeUniversi
        Junior Member
        • Aug 2021
        • 17

        #4
        I have one question, I filled to top pvc area of the towers with extra 2” pyramid foam instead of poly fill. Is this still ok or will this restrict the pressure wave too much? I could still manage to fish it out and replace it if needed.

        I got to demo them a bit before paint. The room isn’t going to help me much and I’m new to room treatments anyway so it’s a bit of a learning curve. I’m using it wider than long. 17x22. Aluminum ceiling. Left and back wall brick, front and right wall glass. I hung Amazon grade velvet curtains on the side and front wall to help the projector but also it deadened down the room.

        If if kills the reflections too much I can always pull them back in a few spots.

        Music sounds great in the money seat. I barely played with killing any room modes and tonal EQ but all my regular tracks sounded as clear as I’ve ever heard. For HT the biggest thing I noticed is that the bass response from the room really changes as you move around the room. The farther back you go it seems to get better. I might try turning the whole setup and running it the long way in the room to see if that sounds better but I might have to get some more curtains as that layout would have nothing on one side wall.

        I moved the remaining tower into the paint booth last night so I turned the center on end and used the center channel as a left main just because I was in the mood to listen. Honestly it wasn’t bad haha.
        Last edited by YouTubeUniversi; 18 October 2021, 14:09 Monday.

        Comment

        • Jim Holtz
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Mar 2005
          • 3223

          #5
          Excellent!

          The foam in the top shouldn't hurt a thing as long as it allows air to freely pass through like polyfil does. Accustic foam and polyfill should both accomplish the same thing.

          I've never had issues with bass or any issues I could pick up on in my 15' x 20' listening room with sheet rock and no wall treatments. Maybe some of the more experienced folks in room treatments can chime in.

          I'm very pleased that you're enjoying the sound quality!

          Jim

          Comment

          • flamethrower1
            Senior Member
            • May 2008
            • 392

            #6
            Nice build, running the same set up with some Statement monitors for rears.

            Comment

            • YouTubeUniversi
              Junior Member
              • Aug 2021
              • 17

              #7
              Originally posted by flamethrower1
              Nice build, running the same set up with some Statement monitors for rears.
              Do you use any phase correction on your receiver? Apart from just deciding what sounds better, (I havent gotten to play with that yet), I thought the drivers that are out of phase was to make the overall effect be in phase at the listening position. So wouldn't phase correction using a mic still be beneficial? My receiver has a frequency based full band phase correction that seems like it's not simply checking whether you have all the speakers wired in phase...which of course we dont.

              Comment

              • YouTubeUniversi
                Junior Member
                • Aug 2021
                • 17

                #8
                So I rotated the room so the seating can be farther from the speakers which seemed to smooth out the response between seats and make a better image/sound stage. After simulating the room in REW and getting the speakers positioned in a decent spot, the towers measured really well and have almost no EQ minus some standing wave adjustments around 70 and 140hz. The center was a different animal. No matter how far off the wall I placed it there was a massive drop between 500-1000hz and a peak at 6k. I managed to beef up the 500-1000 to the point that it isnt horrible but it's still rather low. I have no EQ band at 6K so no easy solution there.

                Ironically the mains, individually measured, had a slight peak at 500-800 but they null each other out flat when combined. The 40hz dip is just a room null at the money seat. Most other seats don't have this.

                Is there an area of the room, reflection etc that operates in this range that I can work with? My current money seat(center couch) average responses are below. The orange is the center and the red the L+R combined. Ignore the SPL. I had the volume different between measurements.

                BTW the whole red curtain thing is because the right and back wall are solid glass and it gets super hot in there otherwise. I added curtains on the opposite walls to keep it symmetrical. I tried adding a curtain panel behind each main and it didn't measure or sound any different to me. The curtains I have arent that heavy though, ebay velvet lol. Because of the through back mids I was thinking about making some skyline diffusers to add behind the mains and maybe a big one on the rear wall. Overall the sound is very good already. The mains are playing to 27hz thanks to a convenient room mode in the mid 20s boosting everything up. The only reason to add any subs would be to fill in some of the modes that move around a bit depending on seating position.

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                Last edited by theSven; 05 April 2023, 21:40 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location

                Comment

                • Jim Holtz
                  Ultra Senior Member
                  • Mar 2005
                  • 3223

                  #9
                  I'd suggest you check the wiring for the mid drivers on the center. They are both reverse priority and would measure/sound incorrectly if they aren't wired correctly.

                  HTH

                  Jim

                  Comment

                  • YouTubeUniversi
                    Junior Member
                    • Aug 2021
                    • 17

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jim Holtz
                    I'd suggest you check the wiring for the mid drivers on the center. They are both reverse priority and would measure/sound incorrectly if they aren't wired correctly.

                    HTH

                    Jim
                    Hey Jim, I checked the polarity of everything and the crossover layout and all seems well. I did notice that on the original post about the finalist there was no resistor in the tweeter circuit. The diagram that meniscus sent with mine has a 1ohm added. This is fine with me as the upper end is a little hot currently. At least compared to the towers. Maybe that's better for HT anyway. Curt doesn't have the center channels added to the website so I didn't have a current diagram to reference if any changes had been made since the original post.

                    I'm going to go play around with some things and see if I can do anything about the dip. Below is the GEQ as it stands. Without the boosts it's quite a hole. I wouldn't normally add that much but it improved at every seating position so I left it.


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                    Last edited by theSven; 05 April 2023, 21:41 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location

                    Comment

                    • YouTubeUniversi
                      Junior Member
                      • Aug 2021
                      • 17

                      #11
                      I did a near field measurement with the eq off. Standing wave was on which has some cuts around 70hz. I even pulled the speaker into the room and turned it random directions and the near field measurements were all similar. I tried moving my mains, stacking pillows behind the center. Noting really made any difference in the hole.

                      It's almost like one of my mids isnt playing but I just was in there checking wiring and the crossover earlier today. It passes the touch test. I'd assume the mid FR would still be flat, just a few db low if that was the case though.

                      I even put the receiver in stereo and used the right channel's speaker wires just to make sure there wasnt anything going on with the surround mode behind the scenes.

                      The dip looks exactly like it's being eq'd. Is there a crossover component that if failed would target this area?

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                      Last edited by theSven; 05 April 2023, 21:41 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location

                      Comment

                      • Efalegalo
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 138

                        #12
                        Started building some towers and a center, Anthology/Finalist

                        Check the polarity of the woofers. Seems like the tweeter and mids are blending, but the mids and woofers aren’t (assuming a 450hz-ish crossover)


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                        Comment

                        • Jim Holtz
                          Ultra Senior Member
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 3223

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Efalegalo
                          Check the polarity of the woofers. Seems like the tweeter and mids are blending, but the mids and woofers aren’t (assuming a 450hz-ish crossover)


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                          I agree. The dip is a classic measurement of incorrect polarity. Yes, I have done this personally so its not new and very easy to do.

                          Jim

                          Comment

                          • YouTubeUniversi
                            Junior Member
                            • Aug 2021
                            • 17

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Jim Holtz
                            I agree. The dip is a classic measurement of incorrect polarity. Yes, I have done this personally so its not new and very easy to do.

                            Jim
                            Well I took checked the woofers and they were correct. But given how obvious the graph pointed towards an issue I just sat staring at the crossovers until I realized that while all the components were layed out correctly, and the midrange connections located correctly, the negative source wire was connected with the negative midrange terminals instead of with the positive. So not only out of phase but totally messed up lol. Sorry for not catching that. I really was taking my time assembling everything but I think more of my focus was on where the speaker wires attached and less on the source. The measurement below should make everyone a little happier.

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                            Comment

                            • Jim Holtz
                              Ultra Senior Member
                              • Mar 2005
                              • 3223

                              #15
                              Originally posted by YouTubeUniversi
                              Well I took checked the woofers and they were correct. But given how obvious the graph pointed towards an issue I just sat staring at the crossovers until I realized that while all the components were layed out correctly, and the midrange connections located correctly, the negative source wire was connected with the negative midrange terminals instead of with the positive. So not only out of phase but totally messed up lol. Sorry for not catching that. I really was taking my time assembling everything but I think more of my focus was on where the speaker wires attached and less on the source. The measurement below should make everyone a little happier.

                              LOL! Do not be sorry. It's a continuing education every time you do it. I have also made the same mistake which is how I knew what to look for after seeing your measurements.

                              BTW, It's easier to correct for reverse polarity when assembling the crossover so positive/negative wires still attach to the appropriate driver terminals but its reversed in the crossover.

                              I'm very glad you got it fixed!

                              Jim
                              Last edited by theSven; 05 April 2023, 21:42 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location

                              Comment

                              • Efalegalo
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2007
                                • 138

                                #16
                                I'd say that looks much better :-)

                                Comment

                                • YouTubeUniversi
                                  Junior Member
                                  • Aug 2021
                                  • 17

                                  #17
                                  Well I listened to some tracks as well as a few movie scenes and it's to the point now that I can't tell a tonal difference if I switch between stereo and multichannel so we are good to go.

                                  Also, in order to do the center channel measurements I struggled to find a way to do this and utilize the integrated EQs. If I use a multichannel input then it bypasses the EQ. If I use the HDMI then I have to use a surround mode to activate the center. The only problem is the signal coming from REW is L+R so the receiver doesnt recognize any center signal. If I use a L or R speaker wire then it is not using the center channel EQ.

                                  The best solution I found was to use an advanced surround mode called extended stereo which plays the stereo out of all channels however I'm unaware if this adds any tonal coloring like the other advanced modes like Action, Drama ETC.

                                  What does everyone else do?

                                  Comment

                                  • theSven
                                    Master of None
                                    • Jan 2014
                                    • 855

                                    #18
                                    I have an Emotiva UMC-1 right now, and I plan to upgrade that later this year or early next year. When I watch movies I put it in surround mode, and 2.0 for music sessions. The Emotiva just lets you set the crossover and decibel per channel. I didn't have to do much at all to get a sound that I enjoy. I would be interested to hear what other people are doing too.
                                    Painter in training

                                    Comment

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