Wavecor Ardent Mid Priced Build

[meb46]

Great write ups guys, sounds like a fun day! Awesome to be able to have someone like Jon swing by for a sanity check and blessing on the latest creations... fancy a Singapore road trip?

[dar47]

Well, Ron that finish makes me think twice a bought going for gloss, beautiful. Your partner looking to sale stuff, you know you live on a different plant, haha. You tell her my Moon rep is bringing in a Neo 380D dac with the upgraded Moon mind 180 integrated in it so I may be parting with my very gently used NAD M51.:W

We are all lucky to have these speakers that do get better with a great front end.

[JonMarsh]

So many things I could respond to, but pretty tired this evening (a long, LONG Monday!)

But this part I particularly liked:

May he build and design for many more years.

Mike, are you trying to read my mind these days?

fancy a Singapore road trip?

Because I was thinking about that quite a bit yesterday, between the situation with your project, and my friends from Munich who most likely will be moving there before too long. Since this is a bit more complicated than dropping a new midrange driver into an existing design, due diligence would be highly recommended. And the AURALiC DAC and Pre are pretty small- part of why I got them was to have good traveling components.

Now, a funny story if you will.... we have our main APAC headquarters group in Singapore, and I've probably been there on business about a half dozen times. It's where I first met my friend who is in Munich these days- he was heading up that region way back when. Well, in 2007, I was on the verge of losing my preferred frequent flyer status with United (which got me preferential treatments on upgrades and the like), and I needed a big hunk of miles. I did a little research, and you know, if you're willing to be flexible about your exact travel dates and time of the week, and book 30-60 days in advance, you can get some pretty good deals (that's what I did going to Munich this March). Back then, I got a round trip ticket to Singapore with a 5 day layover for $737. So heck, I just took a week off and flew to Singapore, stayed at my usual hotel (the Royal Plaza, in the Orchard Row district- very good rooms and service and food, but lower prices than the big name western hotels like Hilton) and I just goofed off for five days. Just for fun I dropped into the office and told them I was there on a surprise inspection, and at first they even believed me... :W It wasn't really comprehensible to them at first that I was in Singapore just on my own nickel goofing off.

I'm almost scared to see what the air prices are these days, but if I can get a two for, and see you and my friends, we just might be able to pull this off.

A lot depends on some other things going on, I'll PM you about that tomorrow.

[Renron]

Opinions on a used

wyred-4-sound-dac-2 ?
Ebay ~$850 ish...
Ron

[JonMarsh]

Imagine what would happen if we had an Ardent constructor's conference/meet up some where...


:welcome: ;b> :yeah: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: arty: arty: arty: :jawdrop:

[wkhanna]

Opinions on a used

wyred-4-sound-dac-2 ?
Ebay ~$850 ish...
Ron

i have heard a lot of DAC's, but not that one, unfortunately.

[wkhanna]

Imagine what would happen if we had an Ardent constructor's conference/meet up some where...

:

i would build a set just meet that group!

[JonMarsh]

Opinions on a used

wyred-4-sound-dac-2 ?
Ebay ~$850 ish...
Ron

https://wyred4sound.com/products/dacs/dac-2-series

The DSDse version of the DAC-2 would be a better choice- look at all the "upgrades". Most of that is standard on the AURALiC you heard Sunday (very low noise regulators, so called femtoclocks); what this doesn't have is the AURALiC Sanctuary filter processor and upsampler, which is a separate FPGA because they didn't think the built in chip capability was good enough.


you know how it goes, better is the enemy of good...

The upgraded version new is about the same price as the current special pricing on the AURALiC, $2495, which was originally a grand more.

[Renron]

Thanks Jon.
I cannot play in your sandbox. But, I am still excited about hearing your equipment thru my speakers. I cannot seem to wipe the smile off my face. Nor do I want to. It was a pleasure to meet and get to hang out with Doc.

[JonMarsh]

Better than with ET, I'm sure...

And thanks- I really enjoyed visiting and having an "audio play date" with you folks.

[audioslave]

DIY Alternative

I built up a ESS SABRE 9018 Twisted Pear DAC based on their modules. They currently sell the 9018 based DAC and have a 9038PRO option in the works. They have a variety of input options that allow you to have just a basic SPDIF or USB up to I2S from a small embedded appliance (RPI or BBB). I use mine with a SPDIF output from a squeezebox touch (touch -> DAC -> Ayre V-5XE).

I think it sounds great, particularly with the DC coupled output option they have. I think it compares well with my neighbors Berkeley Audio DAC.

It was pretty simple, just some basic through hole soldering required. You can use their regulated power supply modules or any other kits out there (Teddy, Burson...etc). They also have a few options for the DAC output stage (Legato and IVY) that are either discrete or op-amp based. They have headphone, SE and Balanced options. I use the BAL to drive my amp and the SE to drive the subwoofer.

links:

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo8.aspx

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/power/placidbp.aspx

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/power/placid.aspx

http://www.mouser.com/new/schaffner/schaffner-FN9280-module/

http://www.par-metal.com/product-rmc-14series.php

[BobEllis]

I've always wondered how the Twisted Pear DAC sounds. It seems to have a strong following at DIY Audio. Are you using its built in volume control or are you controlling volume in the analogue realm?

It was on my upgrade list until I found out about the Cambridge 851D for just a hair more than I figured a full boogie Buffalo III with remote analog volume control would cost to build.

[audioslave]

I am doing volume control via digital in the squeezebox (less than ideal). I have the apple remote/ardiuno setup to do volume in the digital realm via the 9018. I have read that ESS does the volume control 'right' as far as digital goes. I could get the arduino to read the volume and sample rate...etc. I couldn't get it to set the volume. I just need to hammer on the problem with some quality time. It just sounds so good, I have a hard time justifying spending the time on it.

The possible 'loss' of fidelity due to the digital control is probably mitigated by the low gain of the Legato output in its default setting. It tops out at 1.5V. One can adjust the resistors used to get a full 2V if ones needs it. However in the default setting you use a lot less attenuation at normal listening levels with enough headroom to rock-out. I am usually around 75 to 85% of full volume during normal listening (so I'm throwing away less bits). This is a better 'gain structure' than a normal setup. Even in a analog world you lose a lot of SNR when you turn down the volume of the source as much as 60% (as required by a normal high gain amp with a standard 2V input attenuated by a PRE).

I suppose if you do a full boogie, dual mono BIII, with the USB or BBB input solutions, it can get $$$. But its kinda fun to swap out the different I/V stages and power supplies and hear the improvements. You can kind of walk your way into a solution that is customized to you at an incremental cost.

[JonMarsh]

We've been getting a few requests and inquiries about tweaks for the Wavecor Ardents, and whether there is any chance to improve the cost performance ratio further-

And given that these are the "Wavecor Ardents", probably it's safe to say that the Wavecors were a very significant part of the original design, though the Accuton mid and SS Beryllium tweeter made their strong contributions.

This thread documented an approach undertaken a few years ago to do just that, by using the Scanspeak 12MU4731 midrange, but with the availability of the Peerless DA25TX008 tweeter, I think there is more runway left to develop the value proposition and take it to additional heights.

Expect to see an update soon... very soon.

[JonMarsh]

It took a little work, but looks pretty good

You know, even on a busy day with other tasks, things can happen a lot more quickly if you already have all the measurement files you need lined up and raring to go!

Now, it is a three way system, so the crossover is still a significant cost item. This one doesn't look too bad...




Yes, I did tweak pretty dang carefully, and of course the reverse nulls impress (at least in simulation). No voicing imposed, just flat is where it's at- roll your own inline voicing module between preamp and amp, like in the thread I did years ago. MUCH easier to modify to your taste than to contour a crossover!





I reworked the midrange crossover a fair amount, so as to mostly eliminate interaction between tweaking level and frequency response- this did result in a lower minimum impedance, but it doesn't go below 4 ohms.




All in all, considering how many honey do errands I had to take care of also today, it's turned out pretty well. But then, I did cheat and got up at 4:30AM to get an early start on it...

But of course, never forget one of our key working mottos: In God we Trust, all others we verify, so this will need to be verified in hardware...

But given the history with the speaker components and the crossover topologies, I have a pretty good feeling about this.

[jkrueger]

Hello Everyone. It has been a long time since I have been around Mission Possible. You guys helped me build a very fun Rick Craig design a looooong time ago. It is time to build again, and I am super interested in the "Mid Priced" build. 3 quick questions to keep me moving...

1. Can this design be completed with the SW223BD02? https://www.parts-express.com/Waveco...4-Ohm-298-1064
2. What changes need to be made to the above crossover for using the sw223bc02?
3. Is there a BOM for the crossover that is for the BD02/12MU/DA25TX008?

Thank you so much.
This will be a stretch for me if it all works out, but I am very excited to make some sawdust.


JKrueger

[JonMarsh]

Yes, this is designed for the 4 ohm version, always has been. Two woofers in series. It's part of why you get a very reasonable impedance curve.

[JonMarsh]

Hello Everyone. It has been a long time since I have been around Mission Possible. You guys helped me build a very fun Rick Craig design a looooong time ago. It is time to build again, and I am super interested in the "Mid Priced" build. 3 quick questions to keep me moving...

1. Can this design be completed with the SW223BD02? https://www.parts-express.com/Waveco...4-Ohm-298-1064
2. What changes need to be made to the above crossover for using the sw223bc02?
3. Is there a BOM for the crossover that is for the BD02/12MU/DA25TX008?

Thank you so much.
This will be a stretch for me if it all works out, but I am very excited to make some sawdust.


JKrueger

Note that these are "Out of Stock" at Parts Express, and they don't have a date posted for when they expect more in stock, which is unusual.

OTOH, Solen shows 4 in stock currently.

https://solen.ca/products/speakers/home-speakers/subwoofers/sw223bd02/

Given the real supply chain issues that exist these days, in your shoes, I would move on these drivers in stock at Solen soon, if you're seriously interested in this build.

[JonMarsh]

Also, if you are looking to keep the crossover quality high but the parts cost a little lower, I suggest looking closely at the Clarity CSA copper connect series for the midrange and tweeter. They're available at Madisound in Wisconsin and HiFi Collective in the UK- I use the latter quite a bit, because their FedEx shipping is surprisingly fast. The published BOM lists on the forum for the inductors are good guides as is.