Typical need help A-typical sub build!!!

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  • here.now
    Member
    • Jun 2008
    • 70

    Typical need help A-typical sub build!!!

    Hey folks,
    Been a long time coming for me to DIY sub and have a need for something rare/good looking. I want a large dual open baffle sub to add to my setup. If not two curved cabinets for UM18s but wanted to build something different before i resort to a build that's been done before.

    Quick breakdown of my system:
    Denon x4300h
    Natalie P towers for mains
    Modula MTM center
    DIY test atmos speakers built out of some bi-polar ceiling speakers i got at a resell store
    Active berhinger truth for surrounds.
    Dayton RS1202K - dead plate amp now being run by one channel of behringer NU6000dsp

    I want to use the second channel of my NU6000dsp to run either a large open baffle sub, or two UM18's in sealed curve cabinets.

    I'm a woodworker (thanks audio hobby!) now and have a full shop so complexity is not an issue and am planning on using a large butcherblock table as the baffle in either the open or sealed build.

    2 questions -
    What's your thought on adding an open baffle sub to this settup vs two sealed?
    What tools can i use or can someone help me model an open baffle with two subs? the slabs of maple butcher block i have are 36" by 36" and 30" by 48" can cut down to any size.

    Thanks way in advance and i appreciate all of you for your hard work and dedication! Have been a long time member on the forum but only pop in once and a while.

    Let's build something cool and different together! Was thinking of power carving either build (open baf/sealed) and making it into a work of art.

    Best,
    Jeff
    My Stack Rack Build
  • ThomasW
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 10934

    #2
    Reality bites ...Unless a builder has very deep pockets, a huge room that will allow for a massively large baffle, the best that can be built is an OB woofer not a true OB subwoofer.

    The Edge program will allow you too see baffle loading for an OB design


    Any standard box program like UniBox, WinISD Pro or similar will allow performance comparisons between an OB vs more normal box designs. Just use the largest box size the program allows for the OB.

    IB subwoofer FAQ page


    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

    Comment

    • Carl V
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2005
      • 269

      #3
      whoa, welcome back Pilgrim.
      How ya been?

      Comment

      • ThomasW
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 10934

        #4
        Yo Carl!

        Am hanging in there .....

        IB subwoofer FAQ page


        "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

        Comment

        • here.now
          Member
          • Jun 2008
          • 70

          #5
          Thanks for the reply. I thought it may not be feasable. But thought with my large solid baffles it may be possible. With the OB option set aside, could you help me put together a plan for a sealed UM18 build - i'd like to build 2 separates or 1 dual apposed.

          Thoughts?
          My Stack Rack Build

          Comment

          • neuro
            Member
            • Oct 2007
            • 51

            #6
            GR research makes a driver (SW-12-16FR) that works with the Rythmik Audio servo amp. The motion of the woofer cone is controlled by way of a feedback loop with sensor built in to the driver, in this case the sensor is an additional voice coil winding that inductively senses position as it moves through the gap. The GR research version of the driver is made for open baffle and they have a version of the servo amp with compensation built in for the low frequency open baffle loss. You still can't cheat physics so the max output at 20 Hz will be limited regardless of compensation. However, I find them nicely musical and quite capable of shaking things in a large room (with 2x12 per side). It's not going to pressurize the room the way a monster sub and kW+ amp will though...

            I'm just finishing some open baffles from butcher block counter-top material so I'm a bit partial to that idea .

            Comment

            • here.now
              Member
              • Jun 2008
              • 70

              #7
              That's awesome! Wasn't thinking of anything complicated and wanted lower end extension to compliment my system but maybe in the future I'll look into a servo driven setup. Do you have a build of your open baffle you speak of? Would love to take a peak!
              My Stack Rack Build

              Comment

              • ThomasW
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2000
                • 10934

                #8
                Originally posted by here.now
                could you help me put together a plan for a sealed UM18 build - i'd like to build 2 separates or 1 dual apposed.
                In addition to the box design on the PE website, there are literally dozens of sealed UM18 designs on line. What do you need that's different from these?

                IB subwoofer FAQ page


                "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                Comment

                • neuro
                  Member
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 51

                  #9
                  Originally posted by here.now
                  That's awesome! Wasn't thinking of anything complicated and wanted lower end extension to compliment my system but maybe in the future I'll look into a servo driven setup. Do you have a build of your open baffle you speak of? Would love to take a peak!
                  No build, but here's a picture. Build was very simple: cut plywood, install drivers . I used a behringer dcx2496 for crossover. The drivers are the GR Research 12 inch servo woofers, Acoustic Elegance Dipole 12, and Raal 140-15d. I'm rebuilding with the same bottom 3 and then will experiment with different one or two driver options to go above the dipole 12.

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Last edited by theSven; 03 May 2023, 21:30 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location

                  Comment

                  • Jonasz
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 852

                    #10
                    Sweet system!
                    Maybe you can try a Seos waveguide on the Raal? http://horns-diy.pl/en/horns/seos/seos-raal/

                    Where do you cross the ribbon?

                    Originally posted by neuro
                    No build, but here's a picture. Build was very simple: cut plywood, install drivers . I used a behringer dcx2496 for crossover. The drivers are the GR Research 12 inch servo woofers, Acoustic Elegance Dipole 12, and Raal 140-15d. I'm rebuilding with the same bottom 3 and then will experiment with different one or two driver options to go above the dipole 12.

                    Last edited by theSven; 03 May 2023, 21:30 Wednesday. Reason: Update quote

                    Comment

                    • TEK
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 1670

                      #11
                      ThomasW - Very happy to see that you are back again :later:
                      -TEK


                      Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                      Comment

                      • neuro
                        Member
                        • Oct 2007
                        • 51

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Jonasz
                        Sweet system!
                        Maybe you can try a Seos waveguide on the Raal? http://horns-diy.pl/en/horns/seos/seos-raal/

                        Where do you cross the ribbon?
                        Thanks!
                        Crossover is the key question and is why I'm not just putting the same tweeter back on top in the rebuild. I've convinced myself that the Dipole 12 does not meet the Raal 140. The Raal really wants 1500+ as a crossover point and even that's being pretty aggressive. A 12 inch mid starts beaming around 1100. They really don't logically meet in the middle. I used a low power amp on the ribbon so there was no real chance of blowing it, then set the crossover as low as I was comfortable (based on input for various strangers on the internet ). I may have settled around 1400 (don't perfectly recall). The problem is that I was probably lacking dynamic headroom from 1400-2000 or so. The Raal just can't be expected to play peaks that low.

                        My goal with the original design was to keep it simple yet top quality. To be fair it generally sounded fine, great actually. When it comes down to it, I also want to play and try something new. If I can't find anything better sounding I'll happily go back to the theoretically sub-optimal but great sounding original setup.

                        I considered that SEOS waveguide for the Raal to get a little extra extension. I read somewhere that the manufacturer doesn't really recommend it though, thin ribbon isn't meant for the greater air load from a horn/waveguide. A TPL150 on a waveguide could be another great option, but the more I research implementation comments the more I see similar comments as to the Raal, they both are big enough to go lowish but they really prefer to stay above 2000. I could go on about good potential options but won't keep filling your thread (unless you want the thoughts) since you were focused on the low end.

                        Comment

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