In-Wall Speakers (Mini Statements, Finalist, or ?)

[\\\pete\\\]

[Hope I am posting this in the right area!]

Hello!

I am in the design stage of creating a 3.1 system, and I would like some help choosing the right speakers.

I have a wall with 15” x 5.5” bays, which I would like to fit three identical speakers. The remaining bays will be filled with base trapping material, and the entire wall will be covered with acoustic fabric. The speakers will be driven by a Rotel RSX-1055 receiver and complemented with a M&K 12” servo subwoofer. The system will be used, 80% of the time for music listening (electronic, female voice, indie) and 20% for enjoying movies. The room is 16’x31’ with 8’ high ceiling.

I am drawn towards the Mini Statements because of their great reviews, price point, and ribbon tweeter/mid-range. My current thought is to modify the Mini Statement cabinet so that it will fit within the wall bay. In addition I would use a 28-30 liter sealed enclosure for the woofers, in an effort to tighten up the bass (I prefer sealed over vented speakers). I was also thinking of modifying the crossover so that I can attenuate (boost) the tweeter just a bit, to adjust any negative effects caused by the acoustic fabric.

Another speaker candidate is the Finalist. However, I am not sure they are as dynamic as the Mini Statements.

Bottom line: I have not listened to any of the speakers designed by Jim and Curt, and would like help selecting the best design, which can be modified into in-wall speakers.

Thank you in advance!

Pete

[BobEllis]

There's more to it than changing the cabinet to fit the wall bay. Speakers designed for placement away from walls will have too much bass when mounted on wall due to baffle step compensation. This effect is not present in wall and the crossover must be designed for the position. Even though you plan to fill the surrounding area with fiberglass or similar you need speakers designed for in wall mounting. On top of that, the Mini Statements and Finalist midrange is designed to be open back, requiring placement away from the wall. Take a look at the In-Khan-Neatos. There are other speakers with on wall variants.

Due to the wavelengths involved, 5" of bulk absorption will have little effect on bass, but will absorb quite well above 1,000 Hz. If you want to learn about room treatment, this free E-book is a good read. http://www.aazea.com/book/master-han...sixth-edition/

[---k---]

I agree with Bob.
From Floyd Toole's Book.
(I wish I could force everyone to read this thread: https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34016& )
Curt's speakers have a frequency response like the graphs on the left. Putting them perfectly in-wall will result in the graph on the right:



Putting them in a cavity stuff with fiberglass will make them sound like:



Some of that can be tamed/corrected by Tone Controls / EQ, but that is sort of the backwards approach.

Then, like Bob mentioned, Curt's speakers are designed to be open back. He does have options to close the back. But, at that point, I think you're loosing Curt's magic sauce.

CJD also has his in-wall home theater speakers on his site.
Zaph has a ZA inwall kit at Madisound.

[Jim Holtz]

Bob & Ryan are spot on. None of the Statements/Finalists/Anthology's are an option for in-wall.

Jim

[fbov]

...I have a wall with 15” x 5.5” bays, ...
I am drawn towards the Mini Statements ...modify the Mini Statement cabinet ...sealed enclosure for the woofers, ...modifying the crossover ...
Another speaker candidate is the Finalist. However, I am not sure they are as dynamic as the Mini Statements.

Bottom line: I have not listened to any of the speakers designed by Jim and Curt, and would like help selecting the best design...

The actual bottom line is that modifying the cabinet, changing driver locations and the crossover circuit means you have a new speaker design. And that's not a bad thing, but there's a bigger problem...

Mini-Statements use RS180's and RS180's won't fit in 5.5" bays. Look for something based on a 140mm-class driver if you want any chance to fit 15x5.5. Next is depth. What's the available volume; we only know width and height? To get 1 cu ft, it would need to be 21" deep. That also limits your choices. Statuary alcoves are as wide as they are deep, and 0.25 cu ft. would really limit your options!

One option in Curt's stable is Aviatrix. Curt's box for the MTM is a little over 0.5 cu ft. while the TM is only 0.25 cu ft., requiring a 5" depth. He's considered in-wall and center channel applications.

Have fun,
Frank

[BobEllis]

I took the description of the bays to mean space between studs - 2x6s on 16" centers. Hope that's what you meant or as Frank suggests, your choices are narrowed considerably.

[\\\pete\\\]

Wow! Thank you so much for all the quick replies! I didn't realize that moving a speaking in to a wall would make that much of a difference.

Bob, thanks for the link to the book, I will definitely start reading that.
And Ryan, I will research CJD's designs.
And thanks Jim and Frank.

I guess this all points to designing a speaker of my own.

I think I will start by reading, then I will pick up some monitoring equipment (UMIK-1) ,and I think I will also get a miniDSP to prototype a crossover.

I am sure I will have more questions in about 10 months time, once I get rolling on this new project.


Thanks again!

Pete

[cjd]

I'm not quite sure why this means a custom design, but that's not to discourage you by any means. Brave at it and we'll help as much as I of you built an existing design intended for in wall.

I've done a few as noted, the In-khan being one of my favorites. I suspect I'll be telling my HT mains eventually, but still enjoy them.