Finalist Build With a Couple of Wrinkles

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  • cfbuck
    Member
    • Jan 2007
    • 79

    Finalist Build With a Couple of Wrinkles

    My Brother-in-Law wanted a pair of speakers that could be placed close to the wall for the tiime being, but perhaps have a different location when he moves so that they are more conventionally placed. After a search of the DIY published builds, it looked like the Finalists fit the bill admirably.

    I am a hobbyist woodworker with no crossover skills but I follow this forum frequently just to admire the work of Curt, Jon and others. I have built a few speakers with designs by Dennis Murphy, Troels Gravesen and Jeff Bagby. So this thread will be only about construction techniques that I use and mostly of interest to those new to speaker building in general and the Finalists in particular. I will try to also augment Curt's build manual with some tips for new builders.

    The wrinkles--I'm going to use mitred joints with biscuits on all panels except the front inner baffle and the outer baffle will be solid hardwood. So I will be pointing out the pitfalls and some of the ways to overcome the tendency of hardwood to move with humidity changes and therefore open up splits, bow away from the cabinet or possibly torque a driver frame out of shape. I am not reccommending that hardwood be used generallly for baffles but when I saw Jim Salk's (www.salksound.com) early cabinets I shamelessly copied his style. As an example, my Avatar has solid cherry front baffles. I have been lucky to have avoided splits so far and I do like the look.

    My Brother-in-Law wanted dark stained oak to match his furniture, so I purchased the veneer and I already had a 1.5" thick oak plank for the baffles. The oak has been kiln dried and in my house for a few years so it is climatized as much as possible to this environment, It has been cut and glued up for 2 baffles about 26" x 11.25". These are .75" thick and although Jim Holtz calls for just a .5" thick outer baffle, this won't matter as the volume of the box doesn't change. But I may reduce them to the .5" size called for in the design.

    To use hardwood baffles, wood expansion has to be minimized. Wood is like a sponge--it takes on moisture from the air and when it does, unlike a sponge, it expands (or contracts when it dries out in winter), which some call wood movement. red oak can shrink and expand up to .325" in 12" in my climate, Southern Ontario, Canada. We have hot humid summers and dry cold winters. On the Finalist front baffle oak could move that quarter inch because it is 11" wide. This would be too much if the mid and woofer frames are let in flush with the baffle surface and fit tight. So oak is not the most stable wood to use. What can be done?

    The rate of shrinkage/expansion noted above occurs tangentially to the centre of the tree. Those grain lines that we normally see in wood planks, parabolic in form, normally called cathedral grain are tangential. If we cut a plank and see the cathedral grain, look at the end cut. You will see long arcs moving in the long dimension of the rectangle of the end cut. This is what we don't want. This shrinkage will be the worst case. My plank was like this, so it was sawn in .75" wide strips and the resulting 1.5" strips were turned 90 degress and glued up into the baffles.

    Click image for larger versionName:	Finallist 374.jpgViews:	1Size:	75.6 KBID:	871137 Here the end grain is oriented vertically, unlike the cathedral or flat sawn end grain which has horizontal arcs. The largest expansion will occur from the back of the baffle to the front surface. Radial expansion from the centre of the tree to the bark is less than half of the tangential grain--.125" per foot. this is the amount the baffle will stretch from side to side.

    Click image for larger versionName:	Finallist 375.jpgViews:	1Size:	66.7 KBID:	871138 The grain on surface of the baffle will look like straight lines, not cathedral parabolas. This is also termed quarter sawn lumber. Quarter sawn lumber will also exhibit grain patterns which look like worms sometimes crossing the straight grain lines. These rays are visible here and were popularized in the Stickley furniture of the early 20th century in the US. They will remain light in colour when the stain is applied. Quarter sawn lumber is not normally seen in HD or Loews. Those who live in the Carolinian forest can find it reasonably easily from a local sawmill or lumber merchant. They will ship anywhere as well but you don't get to pick it unfortunately.

    This makes the shrinkage move radially to the heart of the tree and it reduces it to .125" per foot. Still not ideal, but I wanted to try oak for the first time in this application. The wood does not move appreciably on the length of the baffle, about 1/100" per foot. Later in the build, when the baffles are milled for the drivers and attachment to the cabinet, some techniques to prevent the baffle from bowing or splitting will be discussed.

    Next post will be about the cabinet cutout and joint construction.

    Cheers, Fred
    Last edited by theSven; 16 December 2023, 15:42 Saturday. Reason: Update image location
    "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
    ~Margaret Mead
  • Jim Holtz
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Mar 2005
    • 3223

    #2
    Hi Fred,

    I'm looking forward to following your build!

    Jim

    Comment

    • cfbuck
      Member
      • Jan 2007
      • 79

      #3
      Choosing to use mitre joints and cutting the MDF

      Some of these posts will be pedantic for experienced builders but this thread is aimed at beginning builders. So bear with me for now.

      I just completed a set of HT speakers, the Charlie Laub NCDIY build 2010. It was the first time I had used butt joints. While they are certainly strong enough, I was disappointed to see the joint telegraph right through the cherry veneer. The end graiin MDF was sanded flush with the surface that it joined. I didn't try to seal the end grain of the joint with diluted glue. Perhaps that would have prevented the joint visibility through the veneer. However, I feel that using either mitre joints or lock mitre joints will eliminate the possibility of the joint appearing. Additionally, these two types of joints provide the benefits of a secure dryfit of the cabinet and square cabinet assembly.

      You can see the butt joint showing in the photo of the top of the speaker below.

      The second photo shows a lock mitre bit. Once this bit is adjusted accurately, with no small amount of trial and error, the resulting joint is suberb. It always assembles squarely and is very strong. The biggest problem with this bit, aside from the adjusting trials, is the amount of material that it removes when it cuts the joint. The dust control on my router table is not very good and the insidious MDF dust fills my shop which is in the basement. Then it migrates through the forced air heating system into the rest of the house. I have a portable router table to take this operation outside but spring has not yet appeared here and it is too cold to use the steel tabletop outside.

      Because the dust control on my saw is better and the amount of material removed by my thin rip saw blade is less, I chose to use the mitre joint with biscuits. Biscuits are not required for strength but hold the cabinet together when dryfitting and make the alignment a bit easier when gluing up.

      I have HD cut the MDF into 4 pieces 24.125 x 49, (3 cuts). In the workshop finish rip these pieces exactly to 24" width. These are all the 24" cuts required. Reset the rip fence to 15" and rip three panels 15 x 24 from one of the 49 x 24 sheets--this provides 3 of the sides. Then rip another 15 x 24 side from the 2nd panel. Set aside the remaining section of this panel for three of the front/backs when the fence is set at 11". Rip two more 15" strips from the 3rd panel to get the tops/bottoms. Set the rip fence at 11" and cut three of the front/backs to 11 x 24. Cut another 11 x 24 from the 3rd panel remanent. Then cut the two 15 x 24 strips into four 15 x 11 panels for the tops/bottoms. Cutting each dimension without moving the rip fence ensures accurate fitting joints.

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      "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
      ~Margaret Mead

      Comment

      • cfbuck
        Member
        • Jan 2007
        • 79

        #4
        Cutting the Mitres

        I have a right-tilting old Unisaw. This saw only allows me to have the fence set to the right hand side of the blade. To cut a 45 degree angle, the blade must be tilted towards the fence and right against it. THIS IS A DANGEROUS CUT. The offcut will be trapped between the blade and the fence. The back side of the blade will want to catch the offcut and throw it back towards the operator. If you attempt this, NEVER STAND BEHIND THE PATH OF THE OFFCUT. MDF is relatively soft and in my experience, it will not come shooting out like a piece of hardwood will. If the saw has a 2 or 3 hp motor, a hardwood offcut will come firing back like a bullet. My MDF offcuts lazily protruded a couple of inches past the blade while the blade slowed to a stop after the saw was shut down upon completion of the cut. Then the offcut was removed from the blade.

        One could set the rip fence further to the right by the width of the panel and make the 45 degree cut safely because the offcut will fall away from the blade without being trapped. However, if the opposite side has to be mitred as well, the sharp edge of the mitre on my fence will not ride on the fence. It will sneak under a gap between the fence and the saw table, destroying the accuracy of the cut and potentially being more dangerous as the panel has now lost its solid support and can be caught by the back of the blade to be thrown up and perhaps towards the operator. For this reason, I choose to set the saw once and make all the cuts in the manner described above.

        The newer left-tilting saws completely solve this problem, making the 45 degree mitre cuts safely. The sharp edge of the opposite side mitre rides safely 3/4" up on the rip fence and the offcut falls freely away from the sawblade.

        In the photo below you can see the MDF dust electromagnetically sticking to everything even though I vacuumed after the mitres for each panel were cut. I always wear a mask when cutting this nasty stuff. You can just imagine what these fines do to your lungs.

        Alternatively, a 45 degree chamfer bit on the router table is a safer but dustier option. If you have just a skill saw, a clamped straight edge will also do the same thing. It just takes longer to accurately set the guide for each cut.

        Add a sacrificial wood or MDF fence to the tablesaw and just bury the blade into it by raising the blade from contact with the fence. Use one of the 3" offcuts left over from the original cutting to make the adjustments. Adjust the fence so that a micro edge will be left on the panel to keep a reasonably solid edge.

        Since fitting work has to be done on the inside of the cabinet prior to cabinet glue up, I choose to inset the front inner baffle using a rabbet edge so that it could be lifted off and on while the window brace and PVC pipe are fitted. A butt joint could be just as easily used here as the joint will be covered by the outer baffle anyways. In my case, three edges of the sides and tops/bottoms will be mitred as well as all four edges of the back panel. But the front edges will have to have a rabbet applied and the inner baffle will have to be cut down to fit inside the outer cabinet dimensions.

        The completed pile of panels in the second photo shows the mitred sides and the front edge of the cabinet which is still uncut. These will be rabbetted.

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        "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
        ~Margaret Mead

        Comment

        • cfbuck
          Member
          • Jan 2007
          • 79

          #5
          Rabbetting fo the Inner Baffle

          I plan to inset the front baffle 3/8" inside the outer cabinet edge and sink it level to the edge. The inner baffle will have to be rabbetted as well as the sides and tops/bottoms. Rabbetting can be accomplished using a straight bit on the router table or the table saw. I'm using the saw to reduce dust. I'm going to use the normal rip blade and make two passes. If you have a dado blade set it up slightly wider than 3/8". Use a sacrificial fence, imbed the blade slightly under it, set it for 3/8" high and wide. One pass will do it.

          Using the rip blade, set the blade so that it cuts 3/8" high and its outer edge is 3/8" from the rip fence. Again a cutoff is used to test and fine tune the setup. The cut will have two passes. Cut the panel on edge with the inside of the cabinet to the rip fence. Be sure to hold the panel securely to the rip fence so that it remains at 90 degrees and doesen't waver throughout the cut. Then cut with the inside of the panel riding on the saw table. Cut all the rabbets for the front edges of the sides and tops/bottoms of the cabinet. Then do the same to one long side and one short side of the front inner baffles.

          Be careful that the inside edge is oriented correctly before making the cut. I reversed the inside edge on one cut and had to glue a piece wood back in to make correct the rabbet. This, of course, wasn't the only mistake of this nature that was made during cutting operations. Luckily there is spare MDF!

          Since the baffle has to inset into the cabinet it will have to be trimmed before completing the rabbets. The panel could be cut down by 3/4" in both dimensions first but I like to dry assemble the cabinet before doing that trim.

          Before dryfitting the cabinet the biscuits will have to be cut so that final dimensions of the inner baffles can be determined. In the photo of one of the sides, the rabbet is visible on the left. You can see the biscuit locations marked and cut around the bevelled joints. Additionally, this photo was taken after a rabbet was cut for the window brace.

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          Last edited by theSven; 16 December 2023, 15:44 Saturday. Reason: Update image location
          "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
          ~Margaret Mead

          Comment

          • JonMarsh
            Mad Max Moderator
            • Aug 2000
            • 15282

            #6
            Looking very good so far- appreciate the explicit comments about dangerous but sometimes necessary techniques. BTDT, have the movie rights but no scars to show for it!

            Will be following this with interest- I build a lot of weird stuff at times, but I'm no woodworker-
            the AudioWorx
            Natalie P
            M8ta
            Modula Neo DCC
            Modula MT XE
            Modula Xtreme
            Isiris
            Wavecor Ardent

            SMJ
            Minerva Monitor
            Calliope
            Ardent D

            In Development...
            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
            Obi-Wan
            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
            Modula PWB
            Calliope CC Supreme
            Natalie P Ultra
            Natalie P Supreme
            Janus BP1 Sub


            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

            Comment

            • cfbuck
              Member
              • Jan 2007
              • 79

              #7
              Thanks Jon.

              You are too modest about your woodworking skills. Your solutions to unusual situations are resourceful and unique. Whatever works is my rule of thumb.

              I still have your plans for the M8Ta which I had intended to build as a challenge but your latest designs and use of bamboo ply have susperseded the M8Tas. I think I will tackle one of those instead.
              "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
              ~Margaret Mead

              Comment

              • cfbuck
                Member
                • Jan 2007
                • 79

                #8
                Cutting Dados to Receive the Window Pane Brace

                The diagram that Curt has on his website shows a window pane brace somewhere near the centre of the cabinet. I couldn't discern the measurement to locate the brace on the plan. It looked to me that the brace is placed about 12.25" down from the top edge of the cabinet. I got this by adding 4" to the 8.25" centre of the mid location. This will allow the 6.675" OD tube plus a bit of wiggle room. Perhaps Jim can chime in if I'm out with this measurement. At any rate, this measurement would be helpful to any builders.

                To place the brace accurately and lock it into the sides I prefer to cut a rabbet or channel about 3/16" deep. I own a dado blade which makes this operation easy. The same thing can be done with a router and straight bit and a straight edge. I set up the dado to slightly larger than the width of the MDF. Moved the fence 12.25" from the blade. Marked the top edge of the sides and back/front pieces and proceeded to run all 8 panels with the top against the fence. Of course I forgot to account for the inner baffle reduction. A piece of hardwood had to be glued in the slot to allow a recut.

                At this point I cut the biscuits in one set of panels and dry assembled the back, sides and top/bottom to get the cabinet interior sized. This allowed me to set the slot for the inner baffe and to recut it. I only want to change the dado blade once.

                Alternate methods for setting the brace can be done with strips glued onto the sides and back, or, thin plywood pieces 1/8" to 1/4" cut to the bottom measurement and glued to the sides. I like to have the brace secure and tested before gluing in the inner front baffle. These methods make the position of the brace certain.

                Once the slots are all complete the inner baffle rabbet had to be adjusted to allow it to sit inside the cabinet level with the flat edges of the sides and tops/bottoms. The saw had to be reloaded with the rip saw blade, the 3/8" rabbet cut and then adjusted to the depth of the side lip for a perfect fit.

                The first photo shows the mistake I made cutting the slot before the inner baffle was sized to inset in the cabinet. It also shows the dado blade in the saw. You might be able to see my marks for resetting the dado blade. These two pencil marks were set directly from the dryfit cabinet and will move the dado about 3/8" closer to the top.

                My camera does not have a macro lens and I am not the best photographer but hopefully the photos are illustrating the points adequately.

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                "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                ~Margaret Mead

                Comment

                • Jim Holtz
                  Ultra Senior Member
                  • Mar 2005
                  • 3223

                  #9
                  I work off the front baffle for positioning the mid tunnel and inner retainer brace. After i cut the baffle and inner baffle, I assembled from the front to the back. The rear is easy to get correct by simply cutting a smaller opening than the diameter of the mid tunnel and flush it with the router.

                  I hope that makes sense.

                  Jim

                  Comment

                  • cfbuck
                    Member
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 79

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jim Holtz
                    I work off the front baffle for positioning the mid tunnel and inner retainer brace. After i cut the baffle and inner baffle, I assembled from the front to the back. The rear is easy to get correct by simply cutting a smaller opening than the diameter of the mid tunnel and flush it with the router.

                    I hope that makes sense.

                    Jim
                    It does Jim. In my case, however, I want to assemble the cabinets with no holes precut except those of the inner retainer braces. I don't use the traditional iron-on veneering method. I use clamps, platens and cauls. This requires the panels to have maximum strength to withstand the clamping pressures and remain as flat as possible. Cutting 6" holes will allow the panels to flex out of flat.

                    I plan to glue the bored out positioning braces to the inner baffle and the back. Then glue up the cabinet except for the inner front baffle. Insert the PVC and glue on the inner baffle. All sides except the front will then be veneered. Finally, all holes will be bored with the holes for the mid tunnel cut using the flushcut bearing bit riding on the inside of the PVC. Smaller holes will be bored inside the tunnel prior to using the bearing bit just as you describe above, except that both holes will be completed after cabinet assembly/veneering.
                    Last edited by cfbuck; 24 March 2013, 11:20 Sunday. Reason: Spelling and grammar
                    "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                    ~Margaret Mead

                    Comment

                    • cfbuck
                      Member
                      • Jan 2007
                      • 79

                      #11
                      A Few More Questions

                      A question should never be buried in a pile of text. I could not see the dimension locating the top of the window pane brace in Curt's diagram.

                      I placed it at 12.25" from the top of the cabinet. This has ramifications for me vis a vis the tunnel. Around here, HD does not carry the 6" PVC only 4" and smaller. I was able to find some PVC pipe that is used to carry city water. It is 6" ID but 7" OD, almost .5" thicker than Curt's. I just want to confirm that I have room above my brace placement for the larger pipe and still have it centred for the VIFA.

                      I presume that the hookup wire has to pass through the PVC wall for the VIFA. Should the holes be drilled for these wires before assembly as it will be difficult to get a drill in there after the cabinet is assembled? Or should I use this as an excuse to purchase that rightangle drill head for my oscillating crafter's saw?

                      Finally, I was wondering if the switch between near and far wall placement could be omitted by using a bi-wire cup? Remove the bridge bar joining the + terminals, solder the 2.2 ohm resistor to the upper + terminal, splice the other end of the resistor into the + circuit and label the two sets of terminals
                      appropriately. This might not be as convenient for switching comparisons but most will just be using one or the other wall position more or less permanently.

                      Fred
                      "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                      ~Margaret Mead

                      Comment

                      • cfbuck
                        Member
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 79

                        #12
                        Jim, I just read the other thread going on with a Finalist build. It answered the question about the holes for the hookup wire. I'll have to read this one too! I can hardly make progress on the building as the typing, photography and image manipulation takes longer than the woodcutting.
                        "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                        ~Margaret Mead

                        Comment

                        • Jim Holtz
                          Ultra Senior Member
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 3223

                          #13
                          Originally posted by cfbuck
                          A question should never be buried in a pile of text. I could not see the dimension locating the top of the window pane brace in Curt's diagram.

                          I placed it at 12.25" from the top of the cabinet. This has ramifications for me vis a vis the tunnel. Around here, HD does not carry the 6" PVC only 4" and smaller. I was able to find some PVC pipe that is used to carry city water. It is 6" ID but 7" OD, almost .5" thicker than Curt's. I just want to confirm that I have room above my brace placement for the larger pipe and still have it centred for the VIFA.

                          I presume that the hookup wire has to pass through the PVC wall for the VIFA. Should the holes be drilled for these wires before assembly as it will be difficult to get a drill in there after the cabinet is assembled? Or should I use this as an excuse to purchase that rightangle drill head for my oscillating crafter's saw?

                          Finally, I was wondering if the switch between near and far wall placement could be omitted by using a bi-wire cup? Remove the bridge bar joining the + terminals, solder the 2.2 ohm resistor to the upper + terminal, splice the other end of the resistor into the + circuit and label the two sets of terminals
                          appropriately. This might not be as convenient for switching comparisons but most will just be using one or the other wall position more or less permanently.

                          Fred
                          Hi Fred,

                          The diagram is mine, not Curt's. ops: He does waaaay better drawings than I do. I'm sorry it's not as clear as some of the CAD drawings we were fortunate enough to have fellow DIY'ers contribute to other project.

                          To answer your 1st question, there should be enough room to position the brace below the PVC mid tunnel with out moving the woofer placement lower. However, please double check my comments because I build differently as we discussed in a previous response.

                          Question number 3 is; Yes you could use a bi-wire cup as long as you had the woofer connected to both sets. If that doesn't sound correct to the EE's, please jump in.

                          Jim

                          Comment

                          • cfbuck
                            Member
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 79

                            #14
                            Diagram is fine--I'm just being anal

                            Originally posted by Jim Holtz
                            Hi Fred,

                            The diagram is mine, not Curt's. ops: He does waaaay better drawings than I do. I'm sorry it's not as clear as some of the CAD drawings we were fortunate enough to have fellow DIY'ers contribute to other project.

                            Jim
                            Jim, the diagram is fine. For my purposes, it just needed the distance from the top of the cabinet to the top of the window pane brace added. I was making cuts from the drawing and I couldn't see that number. Maybe it's there and I missed it. It's only important to me because I am letting the brace into the cabinet sides and I can't move it around to fit in the space after the cabinet is partially glued up as the other thread builder can using butt joints.

                            If the dimension can be added to the diagram, it might be helpful to other builders. Because it was on Curt's website, I assumed that he could make the addition. I can see why the dimension may not be in the diagram, as the brace would have beeen positioned probably after the tunnel was in place.

                            It was trivial anyways. If the tunnel is abit offset from the VIFA, it probably won't matter. In my build, the driver holes will not be cut simultaneously as I cut the outer baffle later, by itself. The outer baffle will have the driver cuts located as specified in your plan. Since the inner baffle holes will be larger, or can be larger, than those on the outer baffle, Some misalignment is not problematic.
                            "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                            ~Margaret Mead

                            Comment

                            • cfbuck
                              Member
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 79

                              #15
                              Glueup of Cabinet

                              The panels in the one photo are laid out as they will be assembled. Care must be taken that the slot for the window pane brace lines up with one another across the 2 sides and back, paying attention to have all the tops in line (the "T1"). This is necessary because the brace is not positioned exactly in the centre of the cabinet.

                              Normally I just glue the mitre joints by themselves if I can find a large flat surface that will hold all the panels at once. I attach strips of masking tape in each direction to the centre panel so that they will act as hinges under the four joints. I apply glue to the centre panel (in this case the cabinet back) bevels. Then glue to each bevel of each of the other panels placing each one precisely against the centre panel. Fold two adjoining panels up until they meet, masking tape the resulting joint at the top making sure that they align correctly and then repeat for the last two panels. With enough glue and precise joint cutting, masking tape is probably all the clamping required but the addition of a band clamp would give more pressure.

                              I have a Porter Cable biscuit jointer. I recommend this tool highly. It cuts biscuits very precisely on a 45 degree angle because the fence will hang over the point. In the photo, the PC is just hanging on the bevel by itself, no support, while the photo was shot. The slot can be set so that it is cut exactly at the edge of the 45 with the raising mechanism on this jointer's fence. This lets me suspend the centre panel on blocks so that the clamps can be positioned under it. When the panels have glue applied, the biscuits will hold the panels in place while they are assembled to the centre one at a time. Then the clamps can be added.

                              On the first cabinet I used 3 biscuits on the long side, 2 on the 15" length and 1 on the short side. The middle biscuit interferes with the window brace dropping into the slot so I reduced the number to 2 on the second cabinet. I'll nip the corners of the window brace so it will drop in. I omitted the lower bisuit on the 15" side during glue up because it took some juggling to get the last panel in during the dryfit. The large sides have to splay out to start the biscuit entry into the slot.

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                              "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                              ~Margaret Mead

                              Comment

                              • Steve Manning
                                Moderator
                                • Dec 2006
                                • 1890

                                #16
                                Originally posted by cfbuck
                                I have a right-tilting old Unisaw. This saw only allows me to have the fence set to the righthand side of the blade. To cut a 45 degree angle, the blade must be tilted towards the fence and right against it. THIS IS A DANGEROUS CUT. The offcut will be trapped between the blade and the fence. The back side of the blade will want to catch the offcut and throw it back towards the operator. If you attempt this, NEVER STAND BEHIND THE PATH OF THE OFFCUT. MDF is relatively soft and in my experience, it will not come shooting out like a piece of hardwood will. If the saw has a 2 or 3 hp motor, a hardwood offcut will come firing back like a bullet. My MDF offcuts lazyily protruded a couple of inches past the blade while the blade slowed to a stop after the saw was shut down upon completion of the cut. Then the offcut was removed from the blade.

                                One could set the rip fence further to the right by the width of the panel and make the 45 degree cut safely because the offcut will fall away from the blade without being trapped. However, if the opposite side has to be mitred as well, the sharp edge of the mitre on my fence will not ride on the fence. It will sneak under a gap between the fence and the saw table, destroying the accuracy of the cut and potentially being more dangerous as the panel has now lost its solid support and can be caught by the back of the blade to be thrown up and perhaps towards the operator. For this reason, I choose to set the saw once and make all the cuts in the manner described above.

                                The newer left-tilting saws completely solve this problem, making the 45 degree mitre cuts safely. The sharp edge of the opposite side mitre rides safely 3/4" up on the rip fence and the offcut falls freely away from the sawblade.

                                In the photo below you can see the MDF dust electromagnetically sticking to everything even though I vacuumed after the mitres for each panel were cut. I always wear a mask when cutting this nasty stuff. You can just imagine what these fines do to your lungs.

                                Alternatively, a 45 degree chamfer bit on the router table is a safer but dustier option. If you have just a skill saw, a clamped straight edge will also do the same thing. It just takes longer to accurately set the guide for each cut.

                                Add a sacrificial wood or MDF fence to the tablesaw and just bury the blade into it by raising the blade from contact with the fence. Use one of the 3" offcuts left over from the original cutting to make the adjustments. Adjust the fence so that a micro edge will be left on the panel to keep a reasonably solid edge.

                                Since fitting work has to be done on the inside of the cabinet prior to cabinet glueup, I choose to inset the front inner baffle using a rabbet edge so that it could be lifted off and on while the window brace and PVC pipe are fitted. A butt joint could be just as easily used here as the joint will be covered by the outer baffle anyways. In my case, three edges of the sides and tops/bottoms will be mitred as well as all four edges of the back panel. But the front edges will have to have a rabbet applied and the inner baffle will have to be cut down to fit inside the outer cabinet dimensions.

                                The completed pile of panels in the second photo shows the mitred sides and the front edge of the cabinet which is still uncut. These will be rabbetted.


                                HI Fred,

                                I'm enjoying your build so far, giving me some good construction ideas. A suggestion on your miter cuts, at least for the short sides ..... since I have the same problem as you with a right tilt blade on my saw, I built and used a cross-cut sled for the build I'm working on since I had all kinds of angles all the way up to 45 degrees. Worked out extremely well and no pinching cutoffs up against the fence, as well as being very accurate. Even without getting too crazy on your sled size you can easily deal with boards 18" wide. Couple that with one of your other suggestions and you can stay away from the kick back problem.

                                Looking forward to more update ....... Steve
                                Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                Comment

                                • cfbuck
                                  Member
                                  • Jan 2007
                                  • 79

                                  #17
                                  Completely Agree With Your Sled Safety Idea

                                  Originally posted by Steve Manning
                                  HI Fred,

                                  I'm enjoying your build so far, giving me some good construction ideas. A suggestion on your miter cuts, at least for the short sides ..... since I have the same problem as you with a right tilt blade on my saw, I built and used a cross-cut sled for the build I'm working on since I had all kinds of angles all the way up to 45 degrees. Worked out extremely well and no pinching cutoffs up against the fence, as well as being very accurate. Even without getting too crazy on your sled size you can easily deal with boards 18" wide. Couple that with one of your other suggestions and you can stay away from the kick back problem.

                                  Looking forward to more update ....... Steve
                                  Thanks for the positive feedback.

                                  I completely agree with the idea of a crosscut sled. That is absolutely the safe course. I have a large 90 degree one that takes up to 28" panels. For expediency, I did not want to destroy its zero clearance cut by tilting the blade into it. So it was a conscious decision to use the less safe procedure. But I find that MDF is so soft that it does not get pinched and thrown back. My cutoffs just moved a few inches in front of the blade like the photo shows (that was an actual cut) but I did turn off the motor immediately after completing the cut. Also, my Unisaw is the old 1 hp model with the bullet motor-not the 2 or 3 hp more modern saws that may have a different result. My fence is set parallel with the blade, not offset slightly away from the blade. The way that mine is set, of course, also makes the pinch worse.

                                  If I need to cut a lot of these joints, then a sled is definitely in order. I usually use the lock mitre router bit in my table for speakers. By consciously orienting the splines I can assemble these cabinets just like the butt joint one in the other thread and have no end grain issues. When it warms up here I might do a small thread to visually show this.

                                  Fred
                                  "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                  ~Margaret Mead

                                  Comment

                                  • cfbuck
                                    Member
                                    • Jan 2007
                                    • 79

                                    #18
                                    Confirming Diagram Dimensions

                                    Jim,

                                    I finally plotted the driver openings on the back wall of the cabinet. If the brace is installed 11.75" down from the top outside edge of the cabinet, my 7" diameter pipe will fit, resting on the window brace. This leaves about .25" between the tweeter and the top of the PVC--Plenty of wiggle room and the tunnel is centred on the VIFA 8.25" from the top edge. Since my PVC is unually large the dimension should be fine for everyone else.

                                    In the photo, the arrows are forced to stop at the bevel, but they actually would continue for another .75" to the top edge. Hope that is not confusing. If I could use Autocad or Sketchup I would make a layout.

                                    Because the PVC is resting on the window pane brace, I think that I will fasten it in some way just to further reinforce the cabinet.

                                    Fred

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                                    "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                    ~Margaret Mead

                                    Comment

                                    • cfbuck
                                      Member
                                      • Jan 2007
                                      • 79

                                      #19
                                      My Nephew on YouTube

                                      Stated in the 1st post, I'm building these speakers for my Brother-In_Law, Rob. Rob has a son, Liam, who sings and in the spirit of these speakers wihich Jim a Cust share with us, I'd like to share Liam's talents with anyone who is reading here even if it is a little off topic.

                                      Liam has a few videos on YouTube. He's just completing High School. If you like crooners, he's worth a look. Here are a few of his 17 issues.

                                      I'm Your Man


                                      Lately


                                      Walking In Memphis


                                      Ain't No Sunshine
                                      Video no longer available

                                      Come Fly With Me


                                      I'm proud to announce that he has just composed his first original and it is on YouTube and iTunes



                                      Shameless plug.

                                      Fred
                                      Last edited by theSven; 16 December 2023, 15:49 Saturday. Reason: Update video links
                                      "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                      ~Margaret Mead

                                      Comment

                                      • Jim Holtz
                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                        • Mar 2005
                                        • 3223

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by cfbuck
                                        Jim,

                                        I finally plotted the driver openings on the back wall of the cabinet. If the brace is installed 11.75" down from the top outside edge of the cabinet, my 7" diameter pipe will fit, resting on the window brace. This leaves about .25" between the tweeter and the top of the PVC--Plenty of wiggle room and the tunnel is centred on the VIFA 8.25" from the top edge. Since my PVC is unually large the dimension should be fine for everyone else.
                                        Thanks Fred! I'll see if I can get that incorporated in the drawing. Great craftsmanship!

                                        I hope your Brother in law enjoys them.

                                        Jim

                                        Comment

                                        • cfbuck
                                          Member
                                          • Jan 2007
                                          • 79

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Jim Holtz
                                          I hope your Brother in law enjoys them.

                                          Jim
                                          Jim and Curt,

                                          Rob sang in a choir in his younger days so he has a musian's ear and he listens to all types of music seriously. He heard my first pair of DIY speakers, Dennis Murphy's MBOW1s (www.MurphyBlaster.com). He bought them on the spot. They have since been upgraded to MBOW3s with the 10" Peerless bass box added. He loves them and shows them off to his musical friends including a recording engineer. His engineer friend bought a pair of MB27's, (an iteration of the MBOW1s using Seas tweeters instead of the Hiquphons) that I had built just for fun.

                                          What I am trying to reinforce is the fact that those who listen to music seriously can identify that the DIY speakers are on par with or in many cases, superior to anything manufactured and sold commercially. These DIY speakers are not just a great bargain but a superior product. A simple woodworker like me has to thank all the Curts, Jons, Dennis' and Thomas' who design and share their work over the Internet. I have every confidence that the Finalists will be exceptional and do just what he wants. Thanks for all your work.

                                          Fred
                                          "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                          ~Margaret Mead

                                          Comment

                                          • cfbuck
                                            Member
                                            • Jan 2007
                                            • 79

                                            #22
                                            Mother of all 6" PVC

                                            The first photo shows what I was able to obtain for the tunnel cylinder. HD around here does not carry the standard 6" Schedule 40 or 80.

                                            Unlike the puny 1/4" or 3/8" walled PVC that the rest of you can get, this mother will withstand the powerful soundwave forces of the VIFA mid just fine. It is almost 1/2" thick. I just hope that it does not add to the box volume overhead too much.

                                            However, it was a bit of a bear to cut. I probably should have asked for ideas from the members here. I could not figure out a way of power cutting it. My 14" bandsaw would take the tube height just fine but it always has a 1/2" 3 rip tpi blade in it. If I had tried to use the bandsaw, because the teeth contact the tube halfway up the cylinder the cut is unsupported. The large teeth would dig into the plastic, spin the tube and rip the PVC out of my hands. Perhaps a fine tooth blade would have worked OK. Some of you can make suggestions from your experience. I opted not to try this. Rolling such a large tube in the bandsaw blade would not have been that accurate in terms of squareness anyways.

                                            I will admit to mounting the PVC in my crosscut sled and running it through a 1" high blade but when the tube was rotated for the next cut, the cuts did not line up. The adjoining cuts were offset--they looked more like saw teeth. I didn't take a photo. My crosscut sled is dead accurate with wood that sits tight against the rear fence. I have never had a lot of success getting square cuts with a large blade in the reciprocating saw either. A 10" blade tends to wander for me. Desperate, I had to go manual.

                                            The end opposite the large hub was originally hacked off with a cut less than square. The application for these water pipes does not need a square end when it is inserted in the hub end that has a rubber seal. So, some kind of line close to square was needed. I carefully wrapped a piece of masking tape around the tube using the bulb as a reference guide. Dusted off an old trusty Sandvik crosscut handsaw and cut around the tape keeping the blade as accurate as possible. Twenty minutes and a bit of sweat later, the bulbous end was off. I stood the cut end on a level surface and checked it with a square. I was within 1/8" of square. Tried many methods from handplanes to wood rasps to sandpaper to adjust the cut to square. The only thing that seemed to work adequately effieciently was a handheld belt sander.

                                            I think that I am within less than 1/16th inch off square on every cut now. Someone can chime in with an easy way to do it now that the work is all done.

                                            My cylinders are 1/16-1/32" less than 13" and perhaps a touch long still to fit inside the cabinet. My MDF, like most manmade stock is not exactly at the nominal measurement but a bit thicker, maybe .760". Probably would be better to have the cylinder a touch shorter and set it in some gunk rather than have it too long propping the front or back out. I think that I will adjust the depth remaining in the retainer brace rather than the PVC so that it fits inside the cabinet.

                                            What are others using to fix the tube inside the retainer brace? I was thinking silicone or NoMoreNails.

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                                            "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                            ~Margaret Mead

                                            Comment

                                            • cfbuck
                                              Member
                                              • Jan 2007
                                              • 79

                                              #23
                                              Glued Up a Cabinet

                                              I always dryfit the panels before any gluing operation. Test how each panel will go together. By doing this I found how much to splay the sides when jiggling the biscuit joints into place while the top/bottom panels were added. Then I pulled the panels tight to test all the joints with a cargo strap. These straps could be used as clamps perfectly well if some plastic were trapped under each corner just so that the glue squeezeout won't fix them to the cabinet. Woodworking strap clamps have these corners but I don't have one. Two would be better. So I just used standard clamps.

                                              I layed the panels in the positions they will be attached to each other, paying attention that the slot for the window pane brace lines up across the sides and back.

                                              I suspend the back on a couple of blocks which allow me to set the bottom clamps in place. I applied glue to all 4 bevels of the back. Took one of the sides, applied glue to its 3 bevels and its biscuits. Put it in place onto the back. The biscuits will hold it more or less upright but I needed a clamp placed on the other side of the back as a counterweight until I could get the second side counterbalancing the first and remove the counterbalancing clamp. Quickly glued the top panel bevels and biscuits. This one holds everything together much more securely. The fourth one has to be wiggled in slightly splaying the two sides. I applied alot of clamps but not using a lot of pressure on any one. This would rack the joints. You will notice quite a lot of glue squeezeout. MDF absorbs a lot of glue and applying sufficient glue will ensure a leak-free seam.

                                              Inspect the razor edge joints on the outside of the cabinet. If the clamps are racking, one side of the joint will be too long, adjust the clamps to allow that side to come back into place. If the front edges are not all at the same level, the joints are racked as well. Use the clamps to adjust the pressure either increasing or deceasing the pressure will move them easily enough. If the panels are cut accurately and square, the bevels are at 45 degrees, the resulting joints will be tight and very strong. A photo shows the corner where three bevels intersect and the tightness of the joint after the excess glue was removed.

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                                              "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                              ~Margaret Mead

                                              Comment

                                              • cjd
                                                Ultra Senior Member
                                                • Dec 2004
                                                • 5568

                                                #24
                                                I run a screw into the pvc and cut it on the band saw. Fill the hole later. It's secured to whatever I'm using for crosscuts... Sled or something.



                                                C
                                                diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                                Comment

                                                • cfbuck
                                                  Member
                                                  • Jan 2007
                                                  • 79

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by cjd
                                                  I run a screw into the pvc and cut it on the band saw. Fill the hole later. It's secured to whatever I'm using for crosscuts... Sled or something.



                                                  C
                                                  Thanks for the great idea Curt. That would solve the problem of the unsupported cut and also do it at 90 degrees. Well, that is two extra sleds that I need.

                                                  Does the blade have to be fine toothed?



                                                  Fred
                                                  "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                                  ~Margaret Mead

                                                  Comment

                                                  • cfbuck
                                                    Member
                                                    • Jan 2007
                                                    • 79

                                                    #26
                                                    A Little Better Job of Illustrating the Glueup

                                                    For the second cabinet, I used masking tape in addition to the biscuits to hold the panels in place. I put strips on the back before appling the glue. Because the biscuits hold the panels in position while adding the next, the tape will help hold the panels from slipping. As each panel was added, I added a couple of strips across the joint. Adjustment was only needed to line up the joints at the top when the clamps were applied.

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                                                    "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                                    ~Margaret Mead

                                                    Comment

                                                    • cjd
                                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                                      • Dec 2004
                                                      • 5568

                                                      #27
                                                      I tend to keep a finer tooth blade on my saw but I don't think it's a requirement. No idea as I've only used what I have.

                                                      also, I'm the other "C", not Curt C. a Christopher as it happens. But I do think that makes him the CC...


                                                      C
                                                      diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                                      Comment

                                                      • cfbuck
                                                        Member
                                                        • Jan 2007
                                                        • 79

                                                        #28
                                                        How could I confuse you with Curt? I just did a quick check of the thread, noticed a post and replied late at night without without really thinking. I saw a "C" and thought that maybe Curt was tuning in. Hope that I can be forgiven for confusing two great designers. Thanks for pointing out my mistake and not letting me continue with it.
                                                        "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                                        ~Margaret Mead

                                                        Comment

                                                        • BeerParty
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Oct 2008
                                                          • 475

                                                          #29
                                                          Following this one with interest, great work so far.
                                                          Chris

                                                          My Statement Monitors Build
                                                          My AviaTrix Build

                                                          Comment

                                                          • cjd
                                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                                            • Dec 2004
                                                            • 5568

                                                            #30
                                                            This is not the first time, nor the last I am sure. No problem for either of us that I know of, but helpful to point out to avoid confusion. Also, I can't pass the opportunity for obscure humor and attempting to claim I was first signing just "C" (cc can mean copycat or carbon copy, but the former meaning is less common... and key to this little joke of mine )

                                                            C

                                                            Originally posted by cfbuck
                                                            How could I confuse you with Curt? I just did a quick check of the thread, noticed a post and replied late at night without without really thinking. I saw a "C" and thought that maybe Curt was tuning in. Hope that I can be forgiven for confusing two great designers. Thanks for pointing out my mistake and not letting me continue with it.
                                                            diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                                            Comment

                                                            • cfbuck
                                                              Member
                                                              • Jan 2007
                                                              • 79

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by cjd
                                                              This is not the first time, nor the last I am sure. No problem for either of us that I know of, but helpful to point out to avoid confusion. Also, I can't pass the opportunity for obscure humor and attempting to claim I was first signing just "C" (cc can mean copycat or carbon copy, but the former meaning is less common... and key to this little joke of mine )

                                                              C
                                                              To add to your collection of "CC" and perhaps a little bit to the humour, where I live "CC" can only refer to "Canadian Club"--a famous Canadian Rye Whiskey. It was a rite of passage in the '60s when the drinking age was still 21, to learn that cc did not mean carbon copy.
                                                              "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                                              ~Margaret Mead

                                                              Comment

                                                              • cjd
                                                                Ultra Senior Member
                                                                • Dec 2004
                                                                • 5568

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by cfbuck
                                                                To add to your collection of "CC" and perhaps a little bit to the humour, where I live "CC" can only refer to "Canadian Club"--a famous Canadian Rye Whiskey. It was a rite of passage in the '60s when the drinking age was still 21, to learn that cc did not mean carbon copy.
                                                                The drinking age IS still 21. I have the added random connection to CC the cat (my great-uncle's cat/project/etc.) so that's why that's foremost in my mind.

                                                                And, of course, Curt is a Curt C... in case that was missed...

                                                                Back to the scheduled program?
                                                                diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                                                Comment

                                                                • cfbuck
                                                                  Member
                                                                  • Jan 2007
                                                                  • 79

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Routing the Retainer Rings

                                                                  Like the other thread by Mandroid, I am cutting the driver and tunnel holes after veneering. My PVC was 6 15/16" in diameter. So I cut three concentric circles, 6 15/16", 6 7/16" and 6 1/16" on the Jasper Jig leaving 1/4" of material. The 1/4" is doubled because of the two retainer braces and added to the 13" long tube makes the 13.5" inner dimension of the cabinet. Depending on the accuracy of the tube cut, either the tube may have to be trimmed or the 1/4" reduced to allow the tunnel to fit inside the cabinet.

                                                                  Turning the retainer brace over and using the same centre, a 5 5/8" circle was cut to a depth of slightly more than 1/4". This will remove the centre but leave a lip of 3/4" for the PVC. This material will be removed later using a bearing bit to follow the tunnel walls. Cutting a blind hole smaller than 5 1/4" through the cabinet back/front, centred at 8 1/4" from the top edge, will ensure that the cut is inside the PVC. The trimming cut to the tube wall can then be made with full visibility.

                                                                  The size of my PVC forced me to cut to the edge of the brace so that it would fit tight to the window pane brace. Those who have Schedule 40 or 80 will have some rim left on the retainer brace. The extra material inside the tube is visible in the dryfit photo.

                                                                  The router is a Bosch 1617EVS and the only reason for mentioning that, is an accessory available for the 1617. There are various dust collection pieces that can be added to the Bosch. If you look carefully at the rather poor photo, you can see a clear plastic piece on top of the base with a shop vac hose attached. It does a decent job of capturing 60-70% of the dust, if you remember to turn on the vacuum. With the hearing protection on, I forgot a couple of times and the difference was very noticeable. I need one of those expensive HEPA vacs that turn on with the tool.

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                                                                  "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                                                  ~Margaret Mead

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • cfbuck
                                                                    Member
                                                                    • Jan 2007
                                                                    • 79

                                                                    #34
                                                                    From another couunty

                                                                    Originally posted by BeerParty
                                                                    Following this one with interest, great work so far.
                                                                    Glad you are reading along, BeerPary.

                                                                    You may have noticed the workbench vise mounted at the wrong end of the bench for most people. That should tell you something.

                                                                    I'm lefthanded. We southpaws think a little differently, think Bill Lee, Boston Red Sox. I hope that the thread illustrates some different ways of doing the same thing just for interest (this is not the gospel of how to make speakers). As an example, the use of mitred corners are not often seen in the threads and I had not used them before in a speaker build either. So it is an interesting exercise for me as well. I think that I will switch to this joint from the lock mitre bit that I usually use.

                                                                    I make the comment about not seeing a mitred joint build from out in left field. I only follow Jon Marsh's large builds on this site so I'm not really sure that the mitred builds are not out there. I also had not read the Statement Builds before starting this thread and the speakers. I just briefly read a couple of those. I wish that I had done so earlier. They fill in a lot of background that I am missing--just joining the party.

                                                                    Cheers, Fred
                                                                    "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                                                    ~Margaret Mead

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • BeerParty
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • Oct 2008
                                                                      • 475

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by cfbuck
                                                                      You may have noticed the workbench vise mounted at the wrong end of the bench for most people. That should tell you something.

                                                                      I'm lefthanded.
                                                                      I'm a firm believer in the saying that only left handed people are in their right minds. Of course, Mom was left handed so I'm a bit biased.
                                                                      Chris

                                                                      My Statement Monitors Build
                                                                      My AviaTrix Build

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • BeerParty
                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                        • Oct 2008
                                                                        • 475

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by cfbuck
                                                                        It does a decent job of capturing 60-70% of the dust, if you remember to turn on the vacuum. With the hearing protection on, I forgot a couple of times and the difference was very noticeable. I need one of those expensive HEPA vacs that turn on with the tool.
                                                                        If your shop vac is getting the job done and you just want the 'auto-on/off' feature, you might want to look at an i-Socket Switch. I have never used one so I can't vouch for it, but it seems like a much cheaper solution.

                                                                        And if you shop vac doesn't have a HEPA filter, I suggest you stop cutting MDF until you get one!
                                                                        Chris

                                                                        My Statement Monitors Build
                                                                        My AviaTrix Build

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • cfbuck
                                                                          Member
                                                                          • Jan 2007
                                                                          • 79

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Never Lock Your Keys in the Smart Car

                                                                          This was a quote in a cartoon in to-day's paper. Yes, I'm so old I still read the news on paper. The cartoon was appropriate as to what I had done with the speaker cabinet.

                                                                          I got the tube fitting perfectly in the 1st cabinet. Anxious to move along, I immediately glued the front inner baffle onto the cabinet. Then I read some of the Statement builds. Soon I came to discussions about foam lining. The first cabinet will have to be retrofit through the woofer hole, if possible. I can always cut the baffle off if necessary but I hope it doen't come to that. What are the recommendations for the type and location of lining?

                                                                          The top tube retainer ring was holding the inner baffle about .020" off flat on the left side. You can see a feeler guage under the left clamp if you look closely. Just took a chisel to the ring and peeled off a bit of MDF on the high side. It fit perfectly then. Applied lots of glue around the rabbet of the cabinet and to the top side of the retainer ring which contacts the inner baffle. I had cut the inner baffle loosely so that it could be removed by getting the fingernails in between the baffle and the cabinet. This gap will be mostly filled by the excess glue. Clamped the inner baffle all the way around the cabinet. Then I remembered I had not screwed the tube to the window brace. I hope that it is still in postion. I won't know for sure, until the driver holes are cut. A postive sign was the fact that it did not move with each insert and removal while the dryfit of the inner baffle was taking place.

                                                                          I'm going to wait for advice before gluing up the second baffle.

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                                                                          "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                                                          ~Margaret Mead

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Jim Holtz
                                                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                                                            • Mar 2005
                                                                            • 3223

                                                                            #38
                                                                            It's no problem to line the woofer cavity of the cabinet after the cabinet is glued up. I use 2" wedge foam from the Foam Factory and line everywhere you can see when looking in the cutout. Don't worry about the crossover that will also be in the same area and don't block the sides between the PVC tunnel and cabinet walls. I use 3M #77 spray on contact cement to hold it in place.

                                                                            Jim

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • cfbuck
                                                                              Member
                                                                              • Jan 2007
                                                                              • 79

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Thanks Jim

                                                                              Originally posted by Jim Holtz
                                                                              It's no problem to line the woofer cavity of the cabinet after the cabinet is glued up. I use 2" wedge foam from the Foam Factory and line everywhere you can see when looking in the cutout. Don't worry about the crossover that will also be in the same area and don't block the sides between the PVC tunnel and cabinet walls. I use 3M #77 spray on contact cement to hold it in place.

                                                                              Jim
                                                                              That's the kind of news I like to hear! Is the foam used in the tunnel 1" wedge foam?
                                                                              "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                                                              ~Margaret Mead

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • cfbuck
                                                                                Member
                                                                                • Jan 2007
                                                                                • 79

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by BeerParty
                                                                                If your shop vac is getting the job done and you just want the 'auto-on/off' feature, you might want to look at an i-Socket Switch. I have never used one so I can't vouch for it, but it seems like a much cheaper solution.

                                                                                And if you shop vac doesn't have a HEPA filter, I suggest you stop cutting MDF until you get one!
                                                                                Yes, it have something like that at the router table and it works well--20 second delay after tool shuts down. I just don't think of moving it to the workbench and then back again. I used to be able to remember to turn the vac on and off as required.

                                                                                The vac has a microfilter and I always wear a good mask when cutting this stuff. I vacuum the bench and surroundings after each circle. At this time of year the dust is so electrostatically charged it forms bridges across parts of the router as you can see in the photo. Reminds me of the iron filings on top of a paper with the horseshoe magnet underneath. So I am as careful as I can be about breathing it in. Maybe its LBL time.
                                                                                "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                                                                ~Margaret Mead

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Jim Holtz
                                                                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                  • Mar 2005
                                                                                  • 3223

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by cfbuck
                                                                                  That's the kind of news I like to hear! Is the foam used in the tunnel 1" wedge foam?
                                                                                  The tunnel requires 1" flat foam. It's also available at the Foam Factory or in the upholstery section of hobby stores. Just make sure you can blow through it and you're good to go.

                                                                                  You can vary the foam in the mid tunnel to your tastes. I found that I liked 6 1/2" with a 45 degree taper on the driver end the best. Curt did a lot of testing and measuring with different lengths of foam. I'm attaching the graph that illustrates the different lengths.

                                                                                  Jim

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                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • cfbuck
                                                                                    Member
                                                                                    • Jan 2007
                                                                                    • 79

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    All six Sides Glued

                                                                                    The first photo shows a slightly open joint along one edge of the cabinet. The joint is sealed on the inside but a bit short of the bottom so the clamps did not close it. Its not a problem. I'll put some wood filler or epoxy and sawdust in there before veneering and sand it flush.

                                                                                    the second photo shows the PVC sealed into the cabinet and screwed to the window pane brace. After applying glue liberally to the rabbet and retainer ring, the top was set on and clamped. Carcass no.2 ready for veneering.

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                                                                                    Last edited by theSven; 16 December 2023, 15:52 Saturday. Reason: Update image location
                                                                                    "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                                                                    ~Margaret Mead

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • BeerParty
                                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                                      • Oct 2008
                                                                                      • 475

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by cfbuck
                                                                                      Never Lock Your Keys in the Smart Car

                                                                                      This was a quote in a cartoon in to-day's paper. Yes, I'm so old I still read the news on paper. The cartoon was appropriate as to what I had done with the speaker cabinet.
                                                                                      Don't worry, we have all been there and done that. :T

                                                                                      If it makes you feel any better, I have seem (and had to throw away) much worse mistakes.
                                                                                      Chris

                                                                                      My Statement Monitors Build
                                                                                      My AviaTrix Build

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • cfbuck
                                                                                        Member
                                                                                        • Jan 2007
                                                                                        • 79

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        There have been no posts for the past week, as I contemplate what method I`m going to use to attach the veneer. Most builders here I expect use the iron on method. I tried it on my third build. The veneer stuck just fine. Perhaps I had the iron too hot, because the veneer split later in a few places. Previous to the iron on method, and with every on e there after, I used the Titebond Cold Press Veneer glue. It has worked for me just fine.

                                                                                        The red oak veneer that I have is just a little thin and brittle. So I am thinking of switching to a waterless glue for this build to keep the expansion and shrinkage to a minimum. The two glues Im considering are Unibond 800 or the West Epoxy System 105. However, I`m having difficulty finding the Unibond here in Canada. The West System I have in hand.

                                                                                        I am also concerned with the ability to stain the veneer after gluing. It will be stained dark brown like the Stickley furniture to match furniture already in the home.

                                                                                        Another option to be considered is hot hide glue. The hide glue is waterbased which gives me some concern over the shrinkage of the veneer as the glue dries. I would hope that the MDF stays flat under one sided veneering as the veneer shrinks and pulls.However, the hide glue is stainable unlike the other types. I've never used any of these adhesives

                                                                                        Any one wish to share their experience with these adhesives?



                                                                                        Cheers, Fred
                                                                                        Last edited by cfbuck; 13 April 2013, 13:27 Saturday. Reason: Additional information
                                                                                        "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                                                                        ~Margaret Mead

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • cfbuck
                                                                                          Member
                                                                                          • Jan 2007
                                                                                          • 79

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          No Stock of 2.5" port at PE

                                                                                          Jim or Curt

                                                                                          If you are reading this, PE has no stock of the 2.5" port. What would be the alternative?

                                                                                          Thanks in advance.

                                                                                          Fred
                                                                                          "Never underestimate that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
                                                                                          ~Margaret Mead

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