Yamaha LPX-510

[George Bellefontaine]

Good points.

[Chaz7]

Brandon and George,
You both have valid points. But as far as dealers go, they can only rely on info their manufactures tell them. Sometimes, manufactures Non-disclosures prevent anyone from knowing who is really the manufacture. And let's face it, the world of electronics is getting smaller and smaller. Samsung has just recently begun producing flat panels for Sony, and Pioneer just recently purchased NECs plasma operations. Five years ago, that never would have happened. I have heard from sources in upper management at Yamaha USA that the LPX-510 is all thier own. But, who really knows. As far as lens glass; throw, and appearance can be identical on paper and visual apperance, but optic quality can be another thing completely.

[George Bellefontaine]

I am pretty much in agreement with what Brandon says. Yamaha dealers want to sell their PJs so of course they are not going to admit it is a rebadged Epson 500 that sells for $500 msrp less. There is much conversation about these two models at another HT site and owners of both the Epson and the Yamaha say pretty much the same about the projector's performance. But what difference does it make anyway? If the Yamaha name looks good in yout HT, what the heck.

[Brandon B]

According to Yamaha, the LPX-510 is their own. It is not unusual to see similar menus, remotes, and even features from product to product. So is the Yamaha a supercharged Epson, maybe. For years Runco upgraded Zeniths for 3 gun, and now their DLPs are I believe NEC, and their DiLA, JVC (of course). As far as specs, we are all better off relying on independent reviews with established publications, such as Widescreen Review or Perfect Vision, than the manufactures (has anyone ever heard a manufacture say "Our's is the second best product?") But even then, there will be differences due to source material, screens, review enviroment,electronics, even power. What we know for certain is Yamaha, according to them, started from the ground up with the intention of being a true home theater projector, the best in both LCD and DLP; Epson, by thier own admission, is geared to be the best in presentation products, with a strong desire to make it in the home theater arena.

Everything you say is true with one exception. The new line of Epsons are very specifically designed and targeted for HT. People are, in fact, having difficulty buying them as Epson's dealer network is patchy so far.

However, Yamaha claiming that their PJ is not a rebadged Epson does not close the book on it. I am not basing the comment on looks, similar menus or anything like that. I am basing it on comments by people in the projector industry who said this is the case. This does not make it true either, and the Yamaha may have actual physical differences. I have not personally seen either of them. Their input panels, and everything else about them, however, make it plain they are at the very least built on the same platform.

Do they, in fact, have different lenses? From the photos, and from the specs on zoom and throw, it does not appear so.

BB

[aud19]

Also I'd like to add that Yamaha's MSRP's tend to be exaggerated compared to actual street pricing. They're probably both well under $4999

Jason

[Chaz7]

I apologize, I left something out. One factor in picture quality/clarity is the lenses. Just as there is a difference between a high end SLR and a point and shoot, so too in projectors. This is but one area Yamaha could have the advantage, and thus more than justify the retail price difference.

[Chaz7]

According to Yamaha, the LPX-510 is their own. It is not unusual to see similar menus, remotes, and even features from product to product. So is the Yamaha a supercharged Epson, maybe. For years Runco upgraded Zeniths for 3 gun, and now their DLPs are I believe NEC, and their DiLA, JVC (of course). As far as specs, we are all better off relying on independent reviews with established publications, such as Widescreen Review or Perfect Vision, than the manufactures (has anyone ever heard a manufacture say "Our's is the second best product?") But even then, there will be differences due to source material, screens, review enviroment,electronics, even power. What we know for certain is Yamaha, according to them, started from the ground up with the intention of being a true home theater projector, the best in both LCD and DLP; Epson, by thier own admission, is geared to be the best in presentation products, with a strong desire to make it in the home theater arena.

[Brandon B]

Don't know for sure either, but in this price range, there are not usually any value-added mods going on. It is usually a strict rebadge/case mod.

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

Specs look pretty much the same, Jason, right down to the internal "cinema" filter that gives it and the Epson the great contrast and blacks. If there are any other differences I didn't spot them ( except the outer case of the Yamaha is different looking than the Epson), and didn't see anything to justify Yamaha's $5495 msrp USD compared to Epson's $4999 msrp USD.

However I didn't check the specs word for word, but it's easy to see that the important features were definitely the same.

[aud19]

I can't say for sure here George but it is possible Yamaha added some of their own touch's to their version of the FP. Perhaps someone can confirm.

Jason

[George Bellefontaine]

Chaz, as Brandon pointed out, the Yamaha is a clone of the Epson 500.

[Chaz7]

Lpx-510

We have the LPX-510 up on a Stewart 123" Studiotek 130, and it looks incredible. SDE is non-existant, unless you stand 10" (yes, inches) away. It does not have the flickering that single-chip DLP has, and the blacks are stunning. Stewart recommends a Fire Hawk (even at this size). Another advantage, one of the few LCD or DLPs that gets the color red right! I have evaluated Epsons, and as good as they are, they still shine as a presentation display, whereas the Yamaha is strictly film and video.

[JonMarsh]

Hey now, Bill's one of the Houston brethren. Don't be dissin' our boy - we'll have t' smack ya 'round. :smackbutt: :B

Bill was at our last Houston meet a couple of weekends ago (acting pretty spring-y) and as usual was a veritable fount of information. Jeez, he's forgotten more about video than I'll ever know! Plus, he's a really nice guy.

Jon, are you back from the Faaaaaaaarrrrrrrr East? How'd the trip go? Get any "sight"-seeing in at the beach? :W

Glad to hear Bill's getting around- I haven't spoken with him in a couple of years. And by no means am I dissing him! He introduced me to Bill Cruce, who also has done some writing for WS.


Didn't really do any sight seeing- was working on a conference paper the weekend I stayed over! My hotel in town was in the "tourist" area, with a lot of shopping and (fortunately) American style restaurants. You don't know what "Chinese" food is, unless you've seen/eaten it in asia. Not quite the same thing...

I'm still pretty jet lagged- waking up at 1 Am for a few hours, then feeling like it's the middle of the night when my alarm goes off in the AM! My body time zone must still be somewhere way out in the Pacific...

~Jon

[George Bellefontaine]

The problem I referred to Jason doesn't necessarily appear on all lcd projectors. I have also only read one or two reviews on lcd projectors where this problem was visible. I know Sony replaced the prism blocks on many of their VPL 400 projectors, mine included. The newer prism block was much improved but there was still some tinting in one corner.

[aud19]

The review doesn't mention any problems with colour unifomity and Bill did seem to almost pee himself over the video quality a few times... :lol: So I don't know if there was any colour uniformity issues but if there were they culdn't have been too bad

Jason

[George Bellefontaine]

Brandon is correct. Epson seems to be the lcd mfgr to beat these days. The contrast on the 500 is definitely being compared to the HD2 dlp PJs. If I was going to buy another lcd PJ to eplace my Sony VPL 400, the Epson would be high on my list.

One of the drawbacks of lcd, though, is color uniformity, and I have read some posts elsewhere from Epson owners complaining about color tinting on black and white images or when a grayscale is put up. That's always been a complaint of mine . I love B&W movies of yesteryear and both an old Sharp I once owned and the Sony VPL400 had this tinting problem and no matter how much yoiu fiddled around in the service menu, you couldn't get it fixed without replacing the entire prism block . This lack of tinting is one of the big things I love about dlp and my NEC Ht1000 in particular. Black and white is black and white and gray is gray.

In all fairness to Epson, though, they seem to be responding positively to those customers who are having problems.

[aud19]

Well below $5000!! ....oh how I want one!

Good info Brandon, thanks :T Though even if I was in the market for a DLP FP I'd be having a close look at these. Seem to have everything you need without any of DLP's drawbacks plus it's cheaper than most quality 1280x720 DLP's I've seen. About the only problem would be SDE if you have a shallow room and like you said, even that seems to be pretty good :drool:

Jason

[Brandon B]

Actually, from what I understand, this is not really a Yamaha unit, but a rebadged/repackaged Epson TW500.

The new Epson line, TW10+, TW200 and TW500 all seem to be LCD at the top of its game at their price point. The 500, and the Yamaha, are streeting for well below the $5K price.

Some nice things being said in the other forums about the Epson/Yamaha, notably that its specs are hardly hyped at all, in comes in quite close to its ratings, in contrast, but especially in brightness.

Cushman may not have mentioned SDE, but new owners report it is still there as in any LCD, although as minimal as they have seen on LCD. They say vertical banding and FPN are both also very good/minimal.

One or two advanced tweaker types have reported that the units come very close to D6500 and good greyscale tracking right out of the box, which is a nice thing, although, that is certainly going to be affected by your room and screen.

Word also seems to be that these are robustly built solid machines, and Epson is standing behind a zero dead pixel policy.

In other words, if LCD is your choce, these should be on the top of your next-to-see list.

TW200 lacks a DVI or HDMI port, so in that price range, Z2 does have a couple of points in its favor.

BB

[David Meek]

Bill Cushman strikes again!

Glad to see he's still doing reviews for them. (He's no spring chicken, either.)

Hey now, Bill's one of the Houston brethren. Don't be dissin' our boy - we'll have t' smack ya 'round. :smackbutt: :B

Bill was at our last Houston meet a couple of weekends ago (acting pretty spring-y) and as usual was a veritable fount of information. Jeez, he's forgotten more about video than I'll ever know! Plus, he's a really nice guy.

Jon, are you back from the Faaaaaaaarrrrrrrr East? How'd the trip go? Get any "sight"-seeing in at the beach? :W

[aud19]

That and Yamaha tends to be... ahem... over ambitious with it's MSRP's. I would bet money you'd see that in stores for under $5000. $4995 or something like that... nevermind any additional discount you might be able to swindle :P :lol:

Jason

[JonMarsh]

It would be funny, if not surprising, that it took Yamaha to bring them to their full potential in a "delivered product", though! OTOH, part of that is just a commitment to having it properly calibrated and optimized out of the box (proper being correct color temp and CIE triangle centering), as opposed to optimizing it a little more for light output and less accurate color, as is most often the case.

Kudo's to Yamaha and Epson. Wonder what the real street price on this unit will be, as Yamaha's are traditionally harder to find at "deals" because of their protected distribution network. Still, it sounds like good value compared with the comparably priced DLP's!

~Jon

[aud19]

While you're right, he didn't seem to mention anything about SDE especially at close distance, this comment makes me think it must be fairly good:

The highest compliment I can pay this projector is to say that it rendered a beautiful, accurate, noise free and high resolution picture - devoid of annoying artifacts - with adequate contrast ratio on a great majority of program material. It looked exactly as it should.

I believe those Epson manufactured LCD panels have been getting good reviews as well in Epson's own projector.

Jason

[JonMarsh]

Bill Cushman strikes again!

Glad to see he's still doing reviews for them. (He's no spring chicken, either.)


If one is looking for a digital projector, I'm sure it would be interesting to see this one up against the better HD2 DLP units. Contrast ratio looks to finally be in the hunt, and color balance appears excellent. And like Bill, rainbows and temporal dithering in low light scenes give me more than a little problem- just the overly sensitive type, I guess. One thing Bill didn't mention was fill factor or SDE at close viewing distances- in this regard, DLP and LCOS usually have an advantage over LCD. I'm hoping that some day a good LCOS projector will be available with otherwise similar specs and pricing as this new Yamaha.

OTOH, I'm looking to find a good deal on an NEC 10PG or similar projector to back up my 9PG+. I don't think I'm going to be able to go back to digitals until something performing close to an SXRD is available for what this Yamaha costs (2000:1 CR, excellent color tracking, and 1920X1080 res.)

~Jon

[aud19]

Just read the review in the July issue of Widescreen Review and WOW! Makes me wish I had the money for a dedicated theatre room and this FP to go in it! :P

It's not cheap by LCD standards, approaching DLP territory at an MSRP of $5495, but man it surely seems you get what you pay for! It had nearly perfect greyscale out of the box, the highest contrast ratio of any LCD FP the reviewer had ever tested, accurate and well saturated colour, excellent scaling, de-interlacing and even composite performance etc, etc... :drool:



Here's a link to the review if anyone's interested :T

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/PDFs/LPX510revWS.pdf

Jason