Posted 3 new designs on my website: Halcyon, Finalist Monitor, MicroStatements:

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  • Curt C
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2005
    • 791

    Posted 3 new designs on my website: Halcyon, Finalist Monitor, MicroStatements:

    Hello gents,
    Its been a while, but I've finally added posted some new designs: The Halcyons, the Finalist Monitors, and the MicroStatements.

    The Finalist Monitors and MicroStatements are kissing cousins, sharing the same NE149-8 and enclosure, but different tweeters. While they both are voiced very similarly, there is some differences in perceived sound. This is partly due to the obvious differences in sound between the RS28F and NeoCD3.0, but also due I suspect to the significantly differing crossover frequencies. While I'm pleased at how both of them came out, I'm especially enamored with the (more expensive) MicroStatements.
    -One thing: Try to squint when you look at the glamor shots of these designs. They are in some old test boxes I had lying around and I didn't have time to put lipstick on them. -I'm hoping someone will build them with cabinets befitting their sonic abilities, and allow me to post them on my site.
    -And yes, the Finalist Monitor pics are of the MicroStatements, as the FM’s were disassembled to design the MS’s.




    The Halcyon was a significant departure for me, and a fun project: A 2 way utilizing the Mark Audio Alpair 10P full ranger, and a pair of SB17NRXC35-8-UC woofers. The woofers were crossed at the approximate center of the baffle step and a first order electrical series crossover was used. I was impressed with the quality of both drivers. The SB17's had exceptional bass extension in a MLTL enclosure. The Alpair fired into a foam lined 8" sonotube enclosure that is 'open' at the back, but has 5" of foam attenuating all but the lowest frequencies in the drivers passband. The design objective was to offload the low frequencies from the full ranger to minimize its excursion requirements and provide near full range coherent sound at reasonably high SPL levels where the Alpair might have struggled on its own. Unlike many of the Statement designs this one can be placed close to the front wall. -Of course since the enclosure is nearly two feet deep, you are going to want to do that anyway.
    On the up side: They look quite slim and unobtrusive from the front.



    The Halcyons and the MicroStatements were shown at Iowa DIY. I would welcome some of the attendees sharing their opinions of them here.

    C
    Curt's Speaker Design Works
  • Jim Holtz
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Mar 2005
    • 3223

    #2
    I don't know how many attendees to Iowa DIY hang out here so I'll provide a quick impression of the Micro Statements and Halcyon speakers.

    Curt and I spent the evening together on Friday night before the DIY event catching up and listening to every speaker in my house which included the Micro Statements and Halcyon design. 1st of all, I wasn't involved with the Micro Statement or Finalist Monitor designs. Meniscus has had numerous requests for surround speakers that would be small and match the Statements and Finalists home theater LCR speakers. Now the good news. They may have been created to be surrounds but they do an amazing job of producing high quality sound as mains in a small system.

    The Micro Statements are big, full & smooth sounding with detail and realism the NE149's are noted for. Bass is very surprising! I'm not sure how deep they go but there was way more bass than I expected. IMHO, the NE series drivers are exceptional and sound just right to my ears. As usual, Curt did an amazing job on the crossover and the NE149/NeoCD3.0 blend seamlessly. Very well done! They are very similar to listening to the Statements II's without the the bass impact only a big speaker can provide.

    The Halcyon were a surprise. The design strays from the typical 2-way but the sound is top notch. The bass is big! Much more than I expected from the SB17's. The Mark Audio driver that handles most of the frequencies does very well in the mids. What I wasn't expecting was how well it handled the top end. Very nice! Sound quality is excellent and very enjoyable. These are very nice sounding speakers that I enjoyed a lot. Perfect for someone wanting something a bit different but still offer excellent sound quality.

    My $.02

    Jim

    Comment

    • Paul K.
      Senior Member
      • Jul 2008
      • 180

      #3
      Quite interesting ML-TL design for the pair of SB17s in the Halcyon. I used the same woofer (one per cabinet) in my 3-way Balmora design with a "coupling chamber" for the first foot of the 5-foot long ML-TL (net line volume ~1.4 ft3). The SB17 is a very good and very cost-effective driver; my modeled f3 was ~37Hz and there's no lacking of bass at substantial (but rationale) SPLs. Great job, Curt!
      Paul

      Comment

      • scardeal
        Junior Member
        • Apr 2013
        • 23

        #4
        Any ideas on ballpark costs for these? (Kit from meniscus perhaps??) The big question in my mind is "Microstatements or Speedsters?"

        Comment

        • ---k---
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Nov 2005
          • 5202

          #5
          Curt, Nice work!
          The Halcyons sounds interesting. I'm glad to hear people are still scratching an itch rather than just building the same old same old kit.
          - Ryan

          CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
          CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
          CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

          Comment

          • Blaine
            Member
            • Jan 2007
            • 38

            #6
            Fascinating. Trying to imagine what the Halcyons would sound like, but I can't!

            Comment

            • tommarra
              Member
              • Feb 2013
              • 36

              #7
              Great! I have Paul C's Overnight Sensations pulling surround duty (mains are Finalist towers)... any thoughts on how the new surrounds compare sonically?


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

              Comment

              • scornfulheal
                Junior Member
                • Dec 2016
                • 1

                #8
                How would the Halycons serve as mains in a stereo configuration without a sub? I have OS MTM now and was hoping to increase overall sound quality while extending bass extension by using a vented/mltl tower design. I am not sure how floor bounce will come into play though with laminate flooring in my 12'x17' living room. System is for a mix of music and TV/HT and would be the main system in the apartment (main reason for trying to avoid a sub).

                How would they compare to something like the Anthologies or Seas Bragi/Iduun?

                Comment

                • JaxLax
                  Senior Member
                  • Jul 2007
                  • 110

                  #9
                  HOW DID I MISS THIS ANNOUNCEMENT?
                  MicroStatements!
                  Finally I can build the surrounds with enough WAF to get them up!

                  I've got a 3.1 set up of Mini Statements L/C/R and a Dayton 18" sub. Would these be better setup as a 5.1 or a 7.1 as I have a large room and open to others.

                  Comment

                  • Jim Holtz
                    Ultra Senior Member
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 3223

                    #10
                    Originally posted by JaxLax
                    HOW DID I MISS THIS ANNOUNCEMENT?
                    MicroStatements!
                    Finally I can build the surrounds with enough WAF to get them up!

                    I've got a 3.1 set up of Mini Statements L/C/R and a Dayton 18" sub. Would these be better setup as a 5.1 or a 7.1 as I have a large room and open to others.
                    The Micro Statements might be what you're looking for. I don't have a lot of information and couldn't honestly suggest 5.1 or 7.1 but I can tell you they are very full and large sounding for a small speaker. Voicing of course will match your Mini Statements so that would not be an issue. I suspect they would handle surround duty extremely well.

                    Jim

                    Comment

                    • TEK
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 1670

                      #11
                      Originally posted by JaxLax
                      HOW DID I MISS THIS ANNOUNCEMENT?
                      MicroStatements!
                      Finally I can build the surrounds with enough WAF to get them up!

                      I've got a 3.1 set up of Mini Statements L/C/R and a Dayton 18" sub. Would these be better setup as a 5.1 or a 7.1 as I have a large room and open to others.
                      The purpose of 5.1 and 7.1 is to get surround sound, aka the feeling that the action is all around you.
                      I would absolutly recommend 5.1 - almost independent of room size. I'm however not to sure about 7.1. I went from a 5.1 setup to a 7.1 setup. I did not find the experience very different (compared to cost) and there are still not that much source material with 7.1 sound.
                      -TEK


                      Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                      Comment

                      • scottvalentin
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2015
                        • 175

                        #12
                        Much better to prepare for 5.1.4 Atmos - I have my basement pre-wired for 7.1, but only use 5.1 as much of my movie watching is netflix, which is 5.1 only.

                        Comment

                        • JaxLax
                          Senior Member
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 110

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Jim Holtz
                          The Micro Statements might be what you're looking for. I don't have a lot of information and couldn't honestly suggest 5.1 or 7.1 but I can tell you they are very full and large sounding for a small speaker. Voicing of course will match your Mini Statements so that would not be an issue. I suspect they would handle surround duty extremely well.

                          Jim
                          /runs to Meniscus audio
                          //drivers sold out
                          ///caps sold out
                          ////bank empty

                          Any ideas on when a kit will be available? Or should I start sourcing from other vendors?
                          Need to complete these before next child shows up in March....

                          Comment

                          • Pknaz
                            Member
                            • Mar 2013
                            • 98

                            #14
                            Room size is critical to the number of speakers in the room. Our ability to differentiate source location of sound decreases as the room size decreases. Unless you're room is rather large, I'd suggest staying with 5.x.x config. If you have a sufficiently sized room then 7.x.x becomes an option. For a very long time, when I was in a pretty small room, I was quite happy with a simple 3.x configuration.

                            Comment

                            • JaxLax
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 110

                              #15
                              Originally posted by JaxLax
                              /runs to Meniscus audio
                              //drivers sold out
                              ///caps sold out
                              ////bank empty

                              Any ideas on when a kit will be available? Or should I start sourcing from other vendors?
                              Need to complete these before next child shows up in March....
                              WOOF.
                              Looking at another ~$600 in parts alone?
                              Am I doing this wrong? So compared to the kit on Meniscus for the full size monitors ($661), I got all the parts/drivers/etc in a cart on Parts-Express and it's basically equal?
                              So the NE149-08 is cost equivalent to the Tang Band and Dayton woofer combined by my addition.

                              Now my only real selling point (was hoping for a small cost savings) is a 65% reduction in cabinet size? That may not be the hill I want to die on...

                              Comment

                              • Pknaz
                                Member
                                • Mar 2013
                                • 98

                                #16
                                Originally posted by JaxLax
                                WOOF.
                                Looking at another ~$600 in parts alone?
                                Am I doing this wrong? So compared to the kit on Meniscus for the full size monitors ($661), I got all the parts/drivers/etc in a cart on Parts-Express and it's basically equal?
                                So the NE149-08 is cost equivalent to the Tang Band and Dayton woofer combined by my addition.

                                Now my only real selling point (was hoping for a small cost savings) is a 65% reduction in cabinet size? That may not be the hill I want to die on...
                                Your assessments are about right. I did the same exercise and came away thinking that I'll just build another set of Monitors.

                                Comment

                                • Jim Holtz
                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                  • Mar 2005
                                  • 3223

                                  #17
                                  Yep, you guys are spot on. The Micro's have a complex crossover and are more expensive to build. If you can use the larger cabinet size of the Monitors, they work very well. They're what I use.

                                  Another alternative for surrounds are the Finalist Monitors which require the same cabinet size as the Micro Statements but cost less. Voicing would be the same as the Micros so they would blend with the mains just fine.

                                  Jim

                                  Comment

                                  • JaxLax
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jul 2007
                                    • 110

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Jim Holtz
                                    Yep, you guys are spot on. The Micro's have a complex crossover and are more expensive to build. If you can use the larger cabinet size of the Monitors, they work very well. They're what I use.

                                    Another alternative for surrounds are the Finalist Monitors which require the same cabinet size as the Micro Statements but cost less. Voicing would be the same as the Micros so they would blend with the mains just fine.

                                    Jim
                                    Moving back to the top,
                                    but to add it here: I'm planning on the microstatements because I don't use grills and want all the tweeters to be similar (when negating the sound).
                                    I've tenuously gotten the go ahead to build the cabinets and will be adding the drivers/CX parts as I can. Plus, wiring will need to be run through the interstitial space between floors above roof so that's probably a full day/weekend project in itself. [I have (2) under 3 yo so it's not like I get a lot of full free days/weekends at home]

                                    Comment

                                    • JaxLax
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Jul 2007
                                      • 110

                                      #19
                                      did any one else notice that the microstatement cabinet sheets show a od of 4" for the tweet and id of 3"; when all the other statement designs have the tweeter as od 4+3/8 and id 3+5/16?

                                      Comment

                                      • Curt C
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Feb 2005
                                        • 791

                                        #20
                                        JaxLax, it think you were the first to catch this error on my website.

                                        Thank you for bringing it to my attention, and the website has now been corrected with the proper dimensions for the NeoCD3.0 flange and cutout.

                                        Anyone finding errors on my site please email me directly for faster corrections.

                                        Thanks!

                                        Curt
                                        Curt's Speaker Design Works

                                        Comment

                                        • doubleTrouble
                                          Junior Member
                                          • Mar 2016
                                          • 25

                                          #21
                                          Gents, when lurking on Mark K's designs, I found interesting thought that a surround speaker should be able to handle reference level of signal.
                                          It seems pretty logical to me as blockbuster movies usually have a lot of high-SPL special effects. From the point of view of a speaker designer, it probably means that the speaker should handle 0dB staying within its Xmax, to avoid grunting ( I mean, as a pig ). Am I correct?

                                          Another obvious question: can somebody please share some information how Finalist Monitors and Micro Statements handle reference level of signal?

                                          Comment

                                          • Jim Holtz
                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                            • Mar 2005
                                            • 3223

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by doubleTrouble
                                            Gents, when lurking on Mark K's designs, I found interesting thought that a surround speaker should be able to handle reference level of signal.
                                            It seems pretty logical to me as blockbuster movies usually have a lot of high-SPL special effects. From the point of view of a speaker designer, it probably means that the speaker should handle 0dB staying within its Xmax, to avoid grunting ( I mean, as a pig ). Am I correct?

                                            Another obvious question: can somebody please share some information how Finalist Monitors and Micro Statements handle reference level of signal?
                                            I think the 1st question I have is, what SPL does "0" equal? 3-way speakers are limited by the bass woofer rather than the mid.

                                            As far as the speakers are concerned, the Finalists have been tested by Curt to handle 110 DB. I can't comment on the Micro Statements but most 2-ways are limited to around 104 DB or less, sometimes much less. That is the reason the surround setting in the processor can be set for full range or to be limited to around 80 Hz. The Finalists will handle full range but Micro Statements should probably use the 80 Hz. setting.

                                            Here are some ball park limits for the other speakers Curt and I have collaborated on;

                                            Statements Monitor - 107 DB

                                            Finalists - 110 DB

                                            Statements, Statements II, Anthology's - 115 DB

                                            As always, common sense should be the guide to what is a safe volume for your ears and the speakers.

                                            Jim

                                            Comment

                                            • doubleTrouble
                                              Junior Member
                                              • Mar 2016
                                              • 25

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Jim Holtz
                                              I think the 1st question I have is, what SPL does "0" equal?
                                              I'm reading the THX explanations, and it seems the 0 level for all channels except LFE is 105dB. They somehow map 0dB of input signal to 105dB of playback level.
                                              That said, speakers should be able to handle 105dB, and according to your numbers, they are fine
                                              Thanks, Jim!

                                              Comment

                                              • sleeper0404
                                                Member
                                                • Feb 2014
                                                • 34

                                                #24
                                                does anyone have a cart list from parts express that they used for the micro statements?

                                                Comment

                                                • Jim Holtz
                                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                                  • Mar 2005
                                                  • 3223

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by sleeper0404
                                                  does anyone have a cart list from parts express that they used for the micro statements?
                                                  The Micro Statements were a design collaboration between Curt and Meniscus. I'd suggest you contact Mark at Meniscus for the kit. It'll be the same price as PE.

                                                  Jim

                                                  Comment

                                                  • sleeper0404
                                                    Member
                                                    • Feb 2014
                                                    • 34

                                                    #26
                                                    thank you Jim!

                                                    do you know if the micro statements can be installed on wall? I really wanted to do the statement monitors for my surrounds but unfortuantely my best option is to find a build to put on wall.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Jim Holtz
                                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                      • 3223

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by sleeper0404
                                                      thank you Jim!

                                                      do you know if the micro statements can be installed on wall? I really wanted to do the statement monitors for my surrounds but unfortuantely my best option is to find a build to put on wall.
                                                      Yes, they were designed for wall mounting but also sounded really good setting on a stand near wall like many folks are limited to for placement. Curt brought them to last years Iowa DIY which means he stayed in my guest room and we geeked out all evening listening to to the Micro Statements, Anthology's and of course the Bordeaux.

                                                      They're a really nice and very flexible design that'll fit many peoples needs. Excellent bass for such a small speaker.

                                                      BTW, Curt is out of pocket for at least a couple weeks tied up with work things so don't expect any email responses for several weeks. Damn its nice to be retired!

                                                      HTH

                                                      Jim

                                                      Comment

                                                      • sleeper0404
                                                        Member
                                                        • Feb 2014
                                                        • 34

                                                        #28
                                                        that should work well for me! would the port just need to be moved to the bottom of the box rather then the back since the back needs to be on wall? would that effect anything?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Jim Holtz
                                                          Ultra Senior Member
                                                          • Mar 2005
                                                          • 3223

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by sleeper0404
                                                          that should work well for me! would the port just need to be moved to the bottom of the box rather then the back since the back needs to be on wall? would that effect anything?
                                                          I'm sorry, but that isn't a question I can definitively answer. I assumed you were using a wall mount bracket. I'd suggest that you check with Mark at Meniscus.

                                                          HTH

                                                          Jim

                                                          Comment

                                                          • scardeal
                                                            Junior Member
                                                            • Apr 2013
                                                            • 23

                                                            #30
                                                            Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but do we know what the F3 is on the MicroStatements? I'm curious and interested...

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Curt C
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Feb 2005
                                                              • 791

                                                              #31
                                                              As I recall the NE149-8's model with an f3 around 40 Hz in these enclosures. They are also impressive in how much SPL they can generate with seemingly no effort or strain. Looking through my notes on the NE149, I found this statement: “The NE149's are overachievers when it comes to bass extension and reproduction in general. With a bit of wall reinforcement, they produce usable bass well into the 30's, yet still shine in their midrange performance.”
                                                              Curt's Speaker Design Works

                                                              Comment

                                                              • scardeal
                                                                Junior Member
                                                                • Apr 2013
                                                                • 23

                                                                #32
                                                                That's awesome! I was looking for more specific numbers to compare to Carmody's S2000 and Speedster, and 40-45Hz is what I was expecting/hoping. I had wanted to firm up what you'd meant by "usable bass well into the 30s".

                                                                I've been very satisfied w/ my Statement Monitors in my living room and it may well be accompanied by MicroStatements in my office now.

                                                                Comment

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