MTMWW Statement II build

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  • bobyoungren
    Junior Member
    • Aug 2015
    • 29

    MTMWW Statement II build

    I have been in the process of deciding to build a pair of Statement II speakers for quite a while. I am at the point now where I am ready to get the project started. I plan to make some modification to the original Statement II Design. You might call it a Statement II in an Anthology size box. A 4’ tall MTMWW driver arrangement with Statement II drivers and crossover. I plan to keep the driver spacing and baffle width as designed, except for the placement of the top woofer and the volume will be reduced.

    The plan is to Have ¾ round over on the front, sides and bottom of the front baffle made out of solid wood trim and the rest of the surfaces will be finished with paper backed veneer. The veneer finish will have a Shellac base coat with a Polyurethane top coat.
    The speakers will have a rear ported cabinet.

    I have a completed several wood working projects since I bought a contractors table saw back in 1998, and have added a router table, planer, jointer and band saw since then. So I have some woodworking skills and tools needed for the project. I am an Electronic Technician by trade.
    The Medite MDF ½ and ¾ sheets are in the shop waiting.

    First lesson learned do not unload a sheet of ¾ MDF from the roof rack of your car by yourself.

    Drivers and Parts yet to be purchased.

    I have attached a SketchUp Still.

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by theSven; 14 April 2023, 15:11 Friday. Reason: Update image location
  • Jim Holtz
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Mar 2005
    • 3223

    #2
    deewan beat you to this redesign. If you do a search you'll find an extensive thread with a lot of build documentation.

    Good luck with the build!

    Jim

    Comment

    • bobyoungren
      Junior Member
      • Aug 2015
      • 29

      #3
      Jim,

      Yes he did, I followed Deewans build from start to finish. But no curved sides for me. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

      Bob

      Comment

      • bobyoungren
        Junior Member
        • Aug 2015
        • 29

        #4
        I have made some progress. I ordered the full Statement II kit from Meniscus on October 25, 2016. I completed the Crossover assembly and I am now working on the front baffles.

        Bob

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        Comment

        • wkhanna
          Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
          • Jan 2006
          • 5673

          #5
          progress is our product of choice! :T
          _


          Bill

          Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
          ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

          FinleyAudio

          Comment

          • JonMarsh
            Mad Max Moderator
            • Aug 2000
            • 15261

            #6
            Along with pictures of same progress! :T
            the AudioWorx
            Natalie P
            M8ta
            Modula Neo DCC
            Modula MT XE
            Modula Xtreme
            Isiris
            Wavecor Ardent

            SMJ
            Minerva Monitor
            Calliope
            Ardent D

            In Development...
            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
            Obi-Wan
            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
            Modula PWB
            Calliope CC Supreme
            Natalie P Ultra
            Natalie P Supreme
            Janus BP1 Sub


            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

            Comment

            • bobyoungren
              Junior Member
              • Aug 2015
              • 29

              #7
              Making circles

              Thanks guys for stopping by my build.

              For the next step. Building the baffels. I started by cutting a gluing the 3/4 and 1/2 MDF together. I was surprised that It took half a quart of Tight Bond III for that operation. I used a smooth weeny roller to apply the glue. That worked pretty good.

              Now how to make the cut outs. I was going to make a jig for that, but decided to drive over to my local Woodcraft Store and pickup the M400 circle jig. That work well accept, for making the 8 13/16 woofer recess. I did make a jig to cut the woofer holes.

              Finished the cut outs today. Next I need to remove the layer of MDF dust covering everthing.

              Bob

              I took a tip from Flamethrowers Anthology build, and screwed down the cut outs to a backer board.Click image for larger version

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              Comment

              • WLDock
                Junior Member
                • Jun 2013
                • 22

                #8
                Looking good! Get after it!

                I plan to take a pretty close approach to this (Deewans) design. I really like the curved sides but the work is a bit much. So, I plan to go with just a curved top and maybe rounded edges. I'm deciding between using Baltic Birch or MDF and if I want to just stain the Birch or veneer.

                Comment

                • BobEllis
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Dec 2005
                  • 1609

                  #9
                  Real cabinet grade BB is much nicer to work than MDF. Get the real stuff, the big box store Birch Ply tends to have voids.

                  I find the grain of BB rather bland for stain/finish. Up your game a bit and try veneer.

                  Comment

                  • bobyoungren
                    Junior Member
                    • Aug 2015
                    • 29

                    #10
                    Originally posted by WLDock
                    Looking good! Get after it!

                    I plan to take a pretty close approach to this (Deewans) design. I really like the curved sides but the work is a bit much. So, I plan to go with just a curved top and maybe rounded edges. I'm deciding between using Baltic Birch or MDF and if I want to just stain the Birch or veneer.
                    Deewans build got me started, I did not want to be the first to mess with a proven design.

                    My original plan was to use cabinet grade Medite. I called around and asked for Medite and a local Lumber yard said they could get it, so I ordered. What I got was Medite Brand MDF rather than Cabinet grade HDF Medite.

                    I am thinking now, can I have MDF baffels and a Baltic Birch Box? Seems like a risky option to start mixing materials.

                    Another option I am considering is building the Case out of a AB Sheet of Cabinet Grade Hardwood veneer Plywood with a hardwood core.

                    If I started agian I would go with cabinet grade Baltic Birch and veneer.

                    +1 on what BobEllis said.

                    Comment

                    • Pknaz
                      Member
                      • Mar 2013
                      • 98

                      #11
                      Just a comment on the WMTMW config vs. the MTMWW config: I believe the WMTMW may exhibit a more even response around the room below 300hz(ish) due to the height of the top woofer, this creates a significant enough separation that you now have four separate points in the room where you're exciting the room.

                      Comment

                      • bobyoungren
                        Junior Member
                        • Aug 2015
                        • 29

                        #12
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                        I decided to use dado joinery for the baffle and speaker backs. I built a bushing guided router jig to make the dado’s. I used a 1in guide bushing and a ½ inch solid carbide Whiteside RU5150 spiral upcut bit. I did quite a few test cut until I was satisfied with the fit. I lined up the back and front baffel so that I could cut both the front and back dado's at the same time. I am happy with the results of the dry fit.

                        When I was beveling the back of the driver cut outs, I rembered something about a 3/4 round over and 45 degree bevel cut. Well after I finished beveling both the midrange and woofer I found the instruction Jim had provided. The instruction said:" The RS225 drivers cut-outs are rounded over with a 3/4 round over on the inside of the front Baffle". On the midrages a 45 degree bevel is used to scallop the edges back accept where the mounting screws go. As you can see in the picture I had a little trouble following directions. Mids and woofers have a 45 degree bevel even where the screws go. On the plus side I have plenty of room for the connecter blocks on the drivers and the screws Menicus provided do not go thru. So I am good.

                        Bob
                        Last edited by bobyoungren; 11 April 2017, 10:04 Tuesday.

                        Comment

                        • bobyoungren
                          Junior Member
                          • Aug 2015
                          • 29

                          #13
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                          This is what the dry fit looks like so far.

                          Bob

                          Comment

                          • Jim Holtz
                            Ultra Senior Member
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 3223

                            #14
                            Very nice! :T

                            Jim

                            Comment

                            • bobyoungren
                              Junior Member
                              • Aug 2015
                              • 29

                              #15
                              Fixing the Port cut-out

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                              When I did the cut-out for the Port on the back I did a test cut that fit perfect. Then I decide as I am setting up for the real cut that the rim is a little tight. So then I decide lets go 1/16th more on the Jasper Jig. Dang to loose.

                              So two options. Live with it like it is or fix it. Well, the next day I decided to try a fix. I cut a a bunch of thin strips of MDF untill I got a strip that when wrapped aroung the inside lip, I had a snug fit. I applied glue to the inside lip then applied the strip of MDF along the inside edge and then pressed the port into cut-out as a clamp. Once the glue was almost set I trimmed of the excess MDF flush with the surface and cleaned up the glue Squeeze out. I got a good fit. No filler needed.

                              Bob

                              Comment

                              • wkhanna
                                Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                • Jan 2006
                                • 5673

                                #16
                                nice recovery.
                                _


                                Bill

                                Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                FinleyAudio

                                Comment

                                • TEK
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • Oct 2002
                                  • 1670

                                  #17
                                  Very nice fix! Remember that paint might cause the holes to be a bit smaller, so do not make the cutouts to snug
                                  Have you decided on the material to use for the sides?
                                  MDF is a very dead material. It does not move mutch after assembled and sealed.
                                  Baltic Beatch plywood is pritty dead as well - but I must honestly say that I do not know if you might get movements or not. People doing translam constructions have had issues, but I'm not sure if that might be because of so many layers are stacked on top of each other.
                                  Most likely you will be OK - but there is a risk that your front baffle (MDF) and your sides (BB) might move differently and thus cause joinery issues/gluelines/breakups between your case and your baffel as I assume these are to be joined as one piece?

                                  What do the more experienced woodworkers here think about the matter?
                                  -TEK


                                  Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                  Comment

                                  • bobyoungren
                                    Junior Member
                                    • Aug 2015
                                    • 29

                                    #18
                                    Speaker side material

                                    Tek,

                                    I special ordered a sheet of Medex for $63.00. Medex is a product designed for Bathroom and Kitchen cabinets. It's is MDF that is water resistant. I want the the sides top and bottom of the case to have mitered corners.

                                    My thinking is since the Baffel has solid white oak 3/4" round over trim and the back edges of the sides and bottom are trimmed there would be no exposed MDF seams. Then I could apply the paper back quarter sawn white oak veneer before final assembly. I am still trying decide if I can complete that procedure with acceptable results.

                                    Bob

                                    Comment

                                    • bobyoungren
                                      Junior Member
                                      • Aug 2015
                                      • 29

                                      #19
                                      Veneering the Baffel

                                      Ok, been a while since I updated my build.
                                      I finally successfully applied the paper back veneer and ¾ round over trim to the baffel. I used Weldwood solvent based contact cement to attach the veneer. I used Gorilla Polyurethane glue to attach the trim, because I thought that glue would be less likely to mess with my finish. Since I have not got to the finishing part yet the jury is still out.

                                      Once I got the veneer attached I struggled with the method to trim the cut outs. I tried making a template but could not get the template to line up properly. The accuracy of the cut out and template is only as good as the accuracy of the drilled center holes.

                                      In the end, I took Jim’s advice and ground down a single flute flush trim bit. It takes a long time to grind away solid carbide on a bench grinder. Once I got the bit modified I did a test baffle cut out to see if the resulting cut would be clean without tear out. I was very pleased with the quality of cut and trimmed the veneer without issue. Thanks, Jim.

                                      When I was preparing to attach the trim, I did several dry fits with clamps until I was satisfied that I could do the glue up successfully. Well, add glue and everything changes. The trim just would not line up after I applied the glue. In a panic, I decided I did not have enough working time to get a satisfactory result. I ended up scraping all the glue off and wiping everything down with mineral spirits. I was done gluing for a while.

                                      I realized that the clamping pressure I was using to close the gaps was causing the baffle to bow up. I ended up needing a few cauls to keep the glue up flat. The second attempt was successful.

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                                      Last edited by bobyoungren; 09 February 2018, 01:51 Friday.

                                      Comment

                                      • Jim Holtz
                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                        • Mar 2005
                                        • 3223

                                        #20
                                        Looks great! :T

                                        Building cabinets is always an adventure fore me. Not always a good one but it is always an adventure.

                                        Jim

                                        Comment

                                        • scottvalentin
                                          Senior Member
                                          • May 2015
                                          • 175

                                          #21
                                          Those look great and nicely done with the trim and roundovers.

                                          Jim, true true words, but we always learn something new that will work better on the next pair.

                                          Comment

                                          • Serg59
                                            Junior Member
                                            • Jan 2018
                                            • 1

                                            #22
                                            Is there an end to your work?Has everything been conceived.Lay out a photo of what has been done.

                                            Comment

                                            • bobyoungren
                                              Junior Member
                                              • Aug 2015
                                              • 29

                                              #23
                                              Making the Sides, bottom and tops

                                              It has been more than a year since I started this project. My work schedule was not conducive to speaker building. That changed in November 2017. I started a job that for now does not require me to work weekends.

                                              I had all the parts made except for the sides top and bottom. I did some test boxes with mitered corners. They looked pretty good but I was concerned that the glue up would be difficult to get right. So I got to thinking that a router bit could make perfect miters. So I started investigating router table solutions and I ended up with a new locking miter router.

                                              Locking miter bits do not come with instructions. Google search resulted in a good article that served well as a detailed instruction manual. This option was not cheap. I ended up purchasing a Freud 39669 locking miter bit for $110.00 and another $30 for a duel feather board.

                                              Once I got the router table set up correctly it was quick work to actually cut the joints. Now that I cut all the joints without the veneer applied I was stumped as to how trim the veneer. I struggled with this issue for quite while doing test cuts trying to get satisfactory results. As it turned out there was a simple solution using hand tools.

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                                              Comment

                                              • bobyoungren
                                                Junior Member
                                                • Aug 2015
                                                • 29

                                                #24
                                                Applying Veneer to the Box

                                                While many places in the USA were in the single digit temperature wise in January, the first two weeks of the New Year were mild in Portland, OR. I was able turn on the heat in my shop and get the temperature up to the necessary minimum 68 degrees required to use contact adhesive to apply veneer.

                                                The instructions said I need to hold that temperature for 24 hour before gluing and 24 hours after gluing. Well I went with 68 degrees for 4 hours before and 4 hours after applying veneer and hoped for the best.

                                                I used a 4in. foam paint roller to apply the contact cement and cut the veneer to rough size with a pair of scissors.

                                                Because I used solvent based contact cement, and to keep the temperature at 68 degrees, the shop was not well ventilated. I had to wear some protective gear to avoid nasty fumes. I do not know how close to the flash point the air was, but the shop and I survived the ordeal.

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                                                Comment

                                                • bobyoungren
                                                  Junior Member
                                                  • Aug 2015
                                                  • 29

                                                  #25
                                                  Trimming The Waste Veneer

                                                  Finding a method to trim the mitered veneer corners was challenging. I spent a lot of time building a cross cut sled that I hoped would work with the blade at 45 degree angle. I did some test cuts to trim the veneer with a table saw, it was not going well.

                                                  Then I came up with another idea while reading about veneering. The article said, I use a veneer saw when cutting multiple layers and a chisel for single layers of veneer. I cut a scrap of plywood at a 45 degree angle on the table saw. Then I clamped and sandwiched the waste of the veneer between the panel and the scrap plywood.

                                                  I did not take a picture of the method using a chisel, but that turned out to give the best cut. I used the mitered plywood to guide my chisel to cut off the waste. The veneer saw gave a somewhat ragged edge. A sharp chisel with the bevel up and flat against the guide piece sliced the waste without a hint of tear out. I got a clean planed like surface on the mitered veneer.

                                                  The speaker box is finally ready for assembly. The picture is yet another dry fit of the parts. I would say I see light at the end of the tunnel, but I have yet to cut the holes in the back for the Mid tunnels.
                                                  Attached Files

                                                  Comment

                                                  • JoeAngelicchio
                                                    Member
                                                    • Oct 2006
                                                    • 47

                                                    #26
                                                    Nice work!!!

                                                    Comment

                                                    • bobyoungren
                                                      Junior Member
                                                      • Aug 2015
                                                      • 29

                                                      #27
                                                      Thanks JoeAngelicchio.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • TEK
                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                        • Oct 2002
                                                        • 1670

                                                        #28
                                                        I agree, looking very good!
                                                        What kind of treatment do you plan on giving the veneer?
                                                        Some kind of oil? Or maybe clear paint?
                                                        -TEK


                                                        Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                        Comment

                                                        • bobyoungren
                                                          Junior Member
                                                          • Aug 2015
                                                          • 29

                                                          #29
                                                          HI TEK,

                                                          I want to use a Golden Oak water based dye and a coat of shellac sealer and then a clear top coat. But the veneer is really fragile. Blue tape will lift some veneer when removed. I need to do some finish tests on scrap veneer. Raising grain my be a bad idea. Not paint.

                                                          Bob

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Dave Bullet
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Jul 2007
                                                            • 474

                                                            #30
                                                            These are going to look great. Bet you're looking forward to a weekend of listening when they are done. Thanks for the posts and the details on cabinet joinery. Gives someone like me something to aspire to!

                                                            Comment

                                                            • bobyoungren
                                                              Junior Member
                                                              • Aug 2015
                                                              • 29

                                                              #31
                                                              Dave,

                                                              Listening to these is still a ways off. Yes it would be awsome to get to actualy listen to the speakers.

                                                              Right now I would be happy to get them glued up. I am still finding issues with the dry fit of parts, but getting close to a good fit. I glued up the tunnels and on the dry fit they are slightly to long. Good thing MDF is easy to sand.

                                                              Your welcome, I am glad you find the information useful.

                                                              Bob

                                                              Comment

                                                              • JoeAngelicchio
                                                                Member
                                                                • Oct 2006
                                                                • 47

                                                                #32
                                                                Looking forward to when you have them done!!!

                                                                Comment

                                                                • bobyoungren
                                                                  Junior Member
                                                                  • Aug 2015
                                                                  • 29

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Cutting The Tunnels

                                                                  I decided to do the tunnel cut outs before glue up. I made a template for the cut outs. I used a short 3/4 top bearing router bit. I started the cut from the back so that I could use screws to secure the template. I cut to 5/8 inch depth and then I finished the cut with a single flute 1/4 inch flush trim bit from the veneer side.

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                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • bobyoungren
                                                                    Junior Member
                                                                    • Aug 2015
                                                                    • 29

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Fixing the Damaged Corner

                                                                    I was just taking the dry fit a part and one of the sides fell of the bench. I can't believe that happened, but it did:EI had to go over to the other side of the bench to access the damage. The back corner of right side veneer was damaged. It could have been worse. I did not take a picture before I attempted to repair the corner. For the first attempt I tried to mold some epoxy patch but the patch broke of when I tried to shape it. So for the second attempt. I cut the damaged corner off at steeper angle and then CA glued on a new MDF corner careful to leave room for veneer. Then I glued on some veneer and trimmed of the waste veneer.

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                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • bobyoungren
                                                                      Junior Member
                                                                      • Aug 2015
                                                                      • 29

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Applying Dye

                                                                      Next up is applying the dye to the veneer. Seems I am flirting with disaster on this project. First applied a lite coat of distilled water to raise the grain in preparation for a brown water based dye. Once the veneer had dried I lightly sanded the veneer with 320 grit sand paper. I applied the dye , wiped down any excess and let it dry overnight.

                                                                      Next I needed to apply a then coat of shellac. I applied shellac to one of the bottoms with a Shure Line paint pad as a test. That seemed to work fine. I continued to apply Bulls Eye de-waxed shellac to all of the Parts. Everything was going fine until I started on the front baffles. That's when things went wrong. The pad was releasing to much shellac around the speaker cut outs, which caused the dye to pool unevenly underneath the shellac. The more I tried to brush it out the worse it looked. I let it dry overnight and was not happy with the result.

                                                                      On the second baffle I purchased a spray can of clear Bulls Eye Shellac. I carefully applied thin coats of shellac from the spray can. That worked just fine, but it did not come even close to the color of the other baffle.

                                                                      Now what? Live with it or try to fix it. I applied shellac to a scrap piece from one of the tunnel cut outs. Then I removed the shellac with rags and denatured alcohol. The question is will the veneer still absorb the dye.

                                                                      The answer was yes. So I decided to just strip the finish of the other baffle. I sprayed the finish with denatured alcohol and scraped the shellac of with a plastic putty knife. Once I scraped as much as I could off I spayed the denatured alcohol on the baffle and wiped it down with a clean rag until as much as possible of the shellac was removed from the baffle. Then I sanded the baffle again with 320 sand paper. Then I proceeded to try to match the dye on the other baffle. It worked.

                                                                      At this point I am thinking danish oil finish would have been a lot easier to apply. Glue up, apply danish oil done.

                                                                      Well I think the second attempt was successful, the baffles now match. Another disaster averted. I am on a business trip this week, so no speaker work for a couple of weeks?

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