My first project is a 4 way speaker...

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15259

    Pretty small differences... the soft of thing that can be swamped out or changed by diffraction effects...

    And best of luck with the crack repair...
    the AudioWorx
    Natalie P
    M8ta
    Modula Neo DCC
    Modula MT XE
    Modula Xtreme
    Isiris
    Wavecor Ardent

    SMJ
    Minerva Monitor
    Calliope
    Ardent D

    In Development...
    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
    Obi-Wan
    Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
    Modula PWB
    Calliope CC Supreme
    Natalie P Ultra
    Natalie P Supreme
    Janus BP1 Sub


    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

    Comment

    • cochinada
      Senior Member
      • May 2014
      • 658

      This gives an idea of how small or how big, depending on the point of view, the old and the new spike pads are.
      Now if I could only remember where I put my anti-gravity device...

      Image not available
      Image not available
      Last edited by theSven; 26 March 2023, 12:51 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
      Joaquim

      DIY 4 way speakers.
      DIY subwoofers.
      Zaph ZD3C.

      Comment

      • Steve Manning
        Moderator
        • Dec 2006
        • 1879

        Originally posted by cochinada
        This gives an idea of how small or how big, depending on the point of view, the old and the new spike pads are.
        Now if I could only remember where I put my anti-gravity device...

        Image not available
        Big difference there ..... I'm with you, I wish Via Blue's were a little bigger to begin with.
        Last edited by theSven; 20 June 2023, 21:34 Tuesday. Reason: Remove broken image link
        Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



        WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

        Comment

        • JonMarsh
          Mad Max Moderator
          • Aug 2000
          • 15259

          Now THOSE are MANLY support pads! Where did you get these new ones?
          the AudioWorx
          Natalie P
          M8ta
          Modula Neo DCC
          Modula MT XE
          Modula Xtreme
          Isiris
          Wavecor Ardent

          SMJ
          Minerva Monitor
          Calliope
          Ardent D

          In Development...
          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
          Obi-Wan
          Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
          Modula PWB
          Calliope CC Supreme
          Natalie P Ultra
          Natalie P Supreme
          Janus BP1 Sub


          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

          Comment

          • cochinada
            Senior Member
            • May 2014
            • 658

            Originally posted by JonMarsh
            Now THOSE are MANLY support pads! Where did you get these new ones?
            Indeed . I got it on eBay here. They come in two sizes and I got the most beefed ones.
            Joaquim

            DIY 4 way speakers.
            DIY subwoofers.
            Zaph ZD3C.

            Comment

            • JonMarsh
              Mad Max Moderator
              • Aug 2000
              • 15259

              Originally posted by cochinada
              Indeed . I got it on eBay here. They come in two sizes and I got the most beefed ones.
              Thanks for the link. Ordered, on ET's behalf...
              the AudioWorx
              Natalie P
              M8ta
              Modula Neo DCC
              Modula MT XE
              Modula Xtreme
              Isiris
              Wavecor Ardent

              SMJ
              Minerva Monitor
              Calliope
              Ardent D

              In Development...
              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
              Obi-Wan
              Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
              Modula PWB
              Calliope CC Supreme
              Natalie P Ultra
              Natalie P Supreme
              Janus BP1 Sub


              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

              Comment

              • cochinada
                Senior Member
                • May 2014
                • 658

                Much better with these MANLY pads as Jon calls them. In fact so much better that now I can easily slide the speakers around the floor. :banana:

                Image not available
                Image not available

                I've also applied the epoxy with a spatula although I didn't bother to lay the speakers on their sides. It was much harder than I anticipated as I only had 90s to apply the stuff on both speakers and I'm not at all pleased with the result. I didn't have enough epoxy to start with. Anyway, for the moment I'm letting it dry before I try to sand it a little. :roll:

                I've learned one lesson: for speakers this size if you want a flawless finishing you better paint them. As all of you who followed this thread know I had them built and the final result came out way short of my expectations that were very high. The worst part is since I had to fight with these issues of the CNC not being calibrated the wholes are not perfectly round. They seem more like an elipse. So even if I wanted to paint it now I'm afraid I simply can't because with the thickness of the paint my drivers would not fit the holes any more. In fact my new tweeters were a little larger than the previous ones and I had to sand the holes a little to be able to fit them.
                Last edited by theSven; 26 March 2023, 12:51 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
                Joaquim

                DIY 4 way speakers.
                DIY subwoofers.
                Zaph ZD3C.

                Comment

                • Steve Manning
                  Moderator
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 1879

                  Originally posted by cochinada
                  Much better with these MANLY pads as Jon calls them. In fact so much better that now I can easily slide the speakers around the floor. :banana:

                  Image not available

                  Image not available

                  I've also applied the epoxy with a spatula although I didn't bother to lay the speakers on their sides. It was much harder than I anticipated as I only had 90s to apply the stuff on both speakers and I'm not at all pleased with the result. I didn't have enough epoxy to start with. Anyway, for the moment I'm letting it dry before I try to sand it a little. :roll:

                  I've learned one lesson: for speakers this size if you want a flawless finishing you better paint them. As all of you who followed this thread know I had them built and the final result came out way short of my expectations that were very high. The worst part is since I had to fight with these issues of the CNC not being calibrated the wholes are not perfectly round. They seem more like an elipse. So even if I wanted to paint it now I'm afraid I simply can't because with the thickness of the paint my drivers would not fit the holes any more. In fact my new tweeters were a little larger than the previous ones and I had to sand the holes a little to be able to fit them.
                  New discs are looking good. By the way even with the out of calibration cnc these still turned out very nice. I think you will find that your expectations are always higher than what you get. Perfection is more of a goal than actually something you can obtain. At least that's what I have found .... if you take the lessons you learn for each project and apply them in the future, each will be better than the last.

                  I also think you might find painting will be less tolerant of surface imperfections than a natural finish like you did here ...... Ron would be the one to ask on that though.

                  Also if you have a small scrapper you might find that will give you a better finish than sanding the epoxy. That's what I used when I had to do the same repair and it worked rather well.
                  Last edited by theSven; 20 June 2023, 21:34 Tuesday. Reason: Remove broken image links
                  Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                  WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                  Comment

                  • cochinada
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2014
                    • 658

                    This is way beyond perfectionism in my book. The image speaks for itself: just look at the baffles. They are not aligned with the respective sides of the boxes. Clearly something went wrong with the measurements as we are talking about 5mm! To be honest I must add that this is much worse now than it was one Year ago and I suspect the wood have been expanding or contracting during this time. Take your pick.

                    Anyway, this is what I suspect to be the reason why I have the huge lateral gap between the top box and the MTM as the taller baffle pushes against the MTM raising the top box way above what it should. On the other hand the MTM baffle came out shorter. How does one fix that? If these were to be painted I reckon that with a lot of sanding and filling it would be possible to align both baffles but with this natural finishing I don't know...

                    Image not available
                    Last edited by theSven; 20 June 2023, 21:34 Tuesday. Reason: Remove broken image link
                    Joaquim

                    DIY 4 way speakers.
                    DIY subwoofers.
                    Zaph ZD3C.

                    Comment

                    • Steve Manning
                      Moderator
                      • Dec 2006
                      • 1879

                      Amazing how much wood can move over time isn't it. 8O You are right about being able to resolve some issues with filler and painting it over though. A bit more forgiving over all.
                      Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                      WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                      Comment

                      • cochinada
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2014
                        • 658

                        Originally posted by Steve Manning
                        Amazing how much wood can move over time isn't it. 8O You are right about being able to resolve some issues with filler and painting it over though. A bit more forgiving over all.
                        Yes indeed and it is why I believe that with proper isolation, stabilization and painting this wouldn't have happened.
                        Joaquim

                        DIY 4 way speakers.
                        DIY subwoofers.
                        Zaph ZD3C.

                        Comment

                        • TEK
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Oct 2002
                          • 1670

                          I'm not to sure about that. I suspect that the cause here is the combination of two different materials that has different attributes regarding how moist affects the lenght.
                          Having all materials stabilized a looong time before assembly might have helped, but the risk is that it would change anyway if you later on moved them to a location with a different moist level.

                          For this design it might have been better to separate the baffel from tha rest and have it attached using screws and a gasket. At the same time having a design where the baffel and sides was not aligned closely so that relative lenght changes is not very visible.

                          However, this does not help you with your current issue.
                          But you should be aware that the changes you are seeing might be caused by season climate changes. Making them perfect now might not make them perfect in 1/2 year...
                          -TEK


                          Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                          Comment

                          • cochinada
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2014
                            • 658

                            Originally posted by TEK
                            I'm not to sure about that. I suspect that the cause here is the combination of two different materials that has different attributes regarding how moist affects the lenght.
                            Having all materials stabilized a looong time before assembly might have helped, but the risk is that it would change anyway if you later on moved them to a location with a different moist level.

                            For this design it might have been better to separate the baffel from tha rest and have it attached using screws and a gasket. At the same time having a design where the baffel and sides was not aligned closely so that relative lenght changes is not very visible.

                            However, this does not help you with your current issue.
                            But you should be aware that the changes you are seeing might be caused by season climate changes. Making them perfect now might not make them perfect in 1/2 year...
                            But I'm using only Baltic birch. Unless by saying "two different materials" you mean that it's a translam construction on the round sides whereas the baffle and all the other panels are not. This is true.

                            We have a moderate climate on Winter and hot Summers but luckily my home is not humid at all so I have difficulties blaming the weather as the culprit. What I notice is that right at the beginning the panels, specially the baffles, were not so well aligned like I wrote at the time and this has become worse and worse due to these strange phenomenons with the wood. I summoned my carpenter to come and evaluate the situation and I'm expecting him today so let's see what he thinks.
                            Joaquim

                            DIY 4 way speakers.
                            DIY subwoofers.
                            Zaph ZD3C.

                            Comment

                            • Steve Manning
                              Moderator
                              • Dec 2006
                              • 1879

                              I think allowing the baffle to "float" relative to the rest of cabinet would have done the trick. I did the same thing as you and glued and doweled my baffle in place, I got cracks. If you look at what Magico did with the Mini as well as other models with BB and aluminum, the baffles and backs were connected as a unit with long bolts. This allowed them to move independently to the stacked lamination's in the rest of the cabinet. I found that out after the I had built mine.
                              Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                              WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                              Comment

                              • cochinada
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2014
                                • 658

                                Originally posted by Steve Manning
                                I think allowing the baffle to "float" relative to the rest of cabinet would have done the trick. I did the same thing as you and glued and doweled my baffle in place, I got cracks. If you look at what Magico did with the Mini as well as other models with BB and aluminum, the baffles and backs were connected as a unit with long bolts. This allowed them to move independently to the stacked lamination's in the rest of the cabinet. I found that out after the I had built mine.
                                Yes, I agree with that approach as it makes perfect sense but only to avoid cracks. However even so, I reckon one would still see gaps appearing as the wood expands or contracts. For instance, imagine the baffle would contract. Then you would have gaps around it or isn't so?
                                In my case it's too late to think of such a solution anyway...
                                Joaquim

                                DIY 4 way speakers.
                                DIY subwoofers.
                                Zaph ZD3C.

                                Comment

                                • Steve Manning
                                  Moderator
                                  • Dec 2006
                                  • 1879

                                  Originally posted by cochinada
                                  Yes, I agree with that approach as it makes perfect sense but only to avoid cracks. However even so, I reckon one would still see gaps appearing as the wood expands or contracts. For instance, imagine the baffle would contract. Then you would have gaps around it or isn't so?
                                  In my case it's too late to think of such a solution anyway...
                                  I would think you see gaps coming and going, though I sure you could design things to minimize to a point it's not noticeable. Your certainly right about that being an option for you at his point, unless your looking for something to do ....... a major cabinet rework would certainly fit the bill.
                                  Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                  WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                  Comment

                                  • TEK
                                    Super Senior Member
                                    • Oct 2002
                                    • 1670

                                    Even if it's all baltic birch, a translam construction and your baffel will contract and expand very differently. The direction of the wood have a lot of inpact and how it will behave. The point is to take this into account in the design.
                                    Regarding a mount on baffel and visible gaps. The clue would be to design it so that the changes would not bee visible.
                                    For examle by having the baffel overshoot the cabinet by 1/2" on all sides - or other simular technics.
                                    Ome possible option for you might be to add another baffel, say 18mm thick, on the outside of the baffel you have and let that overshoot the exising baffel and body on all sides - and integrate that into the current design.
                                    Would not fix the cracks, but could fix the problem with edges not lining up...
                                    -TEK


                                    Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                    Comment

                                    • ergo
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Mar 2005
                                      • 675

                                      On my Minerva-s I used a 45 degree chamfers on the edges around the flat front panel pieces. I figured that even if I do CNC most of the parts I probably will not get these parts to match so well that it will not show up a bit. I also added some same colour silicone filling to the gap. So far so good but it's been less that half a year.... (spitting over shoulder now 3x )

                                      Click image for larger version

Name:	Minerva_edges.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	95.8 KB
ID:	862765

                                      Comment

                                      • cochinada
                                        Senior Member
                                        • May 2014
                                        • 658

                                        Originally posted by TEK
                                        Even if it's all baltic birch, a translam construction and your baffel will contract and expand very differently. The direction of the wood have a lot of inpact and how it will behave. The point is to take this into account in the design.
                                        Regarding a mount on baffel and visible gaps. The clue would be to design it so that the changes would not bee visible.
                                        For examle by having the baffel overshoot the cabinet by 1/2" on all sides - or other simular technics.
                                        Ome possible option for you might be to add another baffel, say 18mm thick, on the outside of the baffel you have and let that overshoot the exising baffel and body on all sides - and integrate that into the current design.
                                        Would not fix the cracks, but could fix the problem with edges not lining up...
                                        Interesting option of a second baffle but I'm afraid that would cause diffraction issues due to the discontinuity in height and aesthetically I'm not found of the idea.

                                        My carpenter has just left the building and he suggests the cracks are caused because of moisture that was trapped inside and is now trying to get out but due to the treatment he made it takes a long time to do so. He also confirmed that the baltic birch his supplier gave him is top grade. For instance, all layers are uniform with 1mm thickness each or so. We also discussed that it would have been much better to opt for curving enough layers of baltic birch to make the round sides instead of a translam as it is. Lesson learned.

                                        Regarding the options he gave me two to fix the cracks on the sides:
                                        1) cut the sides vertically and evenly spaced in order to insert two or three fillets to stabilize the whole thing.
                                        2) make two holes and insert two huge or MANLY dowels from top to bottom on each side.

                                        Option 1 would imply to paint the whole speakers as I don't want to see fillets interrupting the pattern I have right now on the sides.

                                        As such I'm going to give option 2 a try. He will also fill the gaps with a special wax in the same color and hopefully everything will be much better.

                                        From my side I'll have to dismount all the drivers, which is worrying me immensely because they are really really tight and I'm afraid some will not be easy to remove at all.

                                        What do you think of this plan?

                                        BTW, Tek I like the words on your signature.
                                        Joaquim

                                        DIY 4 way speakers.
                                        DIY subwoofers.
                                        Zaph ZD3C.

                                        Comment

                                        • cochinada
                                          Senior Member
                                          • May 2014
                                          • 658

                                          Originally posted by ergo
                                          On my Minerva-s I used a 45 degree chamfers on the edges around the flat front panel pieces. I figured that even if I do CNC most of the parts I probably will not get these parts to match so well that it will not show up a bit. I also added some same colour silicone filling to the gap. So far so good but it's been less that half a year.... (spitting over shoulder now 3x )

                                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]27078[/ATTACH]
                                          Don't spit too much
                                          But yes, that was very good thinking! :T
                                          Joaquim

                                          DIY 4 way speakers.
                                          DIY subwoofers.
                                          Zaph ZD3C.

                                          Comment

                                          • Steve Manning
                                            Moderator
                                            • Dec 2006
                                            • 1879

                                            An idea for you for removing the drivers ...... http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...highlight=1071, look at post 205. Now, even though I did this with drivers not installed, you can still get a flat ended tap and should be able to get things threaded, you only need to do a couple of holes. Just run the bolts in and the driver pops right out.
                                            Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                            WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                            Comment

                                            • cochinada
                                              Senior Member
                                              • May 2014
                                              • 658

                                              Originally posted by Steve Manning
                                              An idea for you for removing the drivers ...... http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...highlight=1071, look at post 205. Now, even though I did this with drivers not installed, you can still get a flat ended tap and should be able to get things threaded, you only need to do a couple of holes. Just run the bolts in and the driver pops right out.
                                              Originally posted by Steve Manning
                                              I also went ahead and threaded two holes on each of the mids and woofer drivers so I could easily lift them in and out of the cabinet. I had been debating on doing this, but with the paint build up issue it seemed like the prudent thing to do.

                                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]22030[/ATTACH]

                                              Once I get this straightened out I can hopefully get these things finished and making some music !!
                                              Very clever but what is this strange tool on the right of the picture? Is this something specifically designed to make threads? Is it a manual tool or what?
                                              Joaquim

                                              DIY 4 way speakers.
                                              DIY subwoofers.
                                              Zaph ZD3C.

                                              Comment

                                              • Steve Manning
                                                Moderator
                                                • Dec 2006
                                                • 1879

                                                Originally posted by cochinada
                                                Very clever but what is this strange tool on the right of the picture? Is this something specifically designed to make threads? Is it a manual tool or what?
                                                Yep, that's the tap to make the threads. It's just a tee handle that accepts different thread cutters. As I recall in this case 1/4-20 threads and yes this is a manual tool. This will give you an idea for what's available, https://www.mcmaster.com/#taps/=16s2nsn. Just Google how to use a tap and go slow with the drivers, you don't want to crack the frame. FYI you will not need any lubricant, which is sometimes required depending on the material.
                                                Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                                WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                                Comment

                                                • TEK
                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                  • 1670

                                                  Steve, your post was the first i thought about when I saw cochinada's worry.
                                                  A great tip that should work here as well.
                                                  Cochinada: You get tap's at most hardware stores. Get a cheep set as you will probably not be doing that mutch tapping (you can make threads in hardwood as well - it's pritty cool ;-))
                                                  Also, as you might apply some force to get these out you must be careful to put something between your tools and the speaker baffel to be sure not to hurt anything.

                                                  The MANLY solution sounds good :-)
                                                  -TEK


                                                  Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                  Comment

                                                  • TEK
                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                    • Oct 2002
                                                    • 1670

                                                    Other solutions:
                                                    - Add a front cover, like on the picture below. Will not fix the problem, but it will not be visible any more.
                                                    - Add some kind of visual separation between the top, middel and bottom that prononces and covers the problematic areas. Like a gasket or something.

                                                    Image not available
                                                    Last edited by theSven; 26 March 2023, 12:52 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
                                                    -TEK


                                                    Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                    Comment

                                                    • cochinada
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • May 2014
                                                      • 658

                                                      Originally posted by TEK
                                                      Other solutions:
                                                      - Add a front cover, like on the picture below. Will not fix the problem, but it will not be visible any more.
                                                      - Add some kind of visual separation between the top, middel and bottom that prononces and covers the problematic areas. Like a gasket or something.

                                                      Image not available
                                                      Those look like fillets of some kind of wood but the idea of some sort of gasket is interesting indeed.

                                                      BTW can you guys please show me some links of builds with curved faces not using translam but curved sheets? I'm searching here in the forum but can't find many examples.
                                                      It's too late for me but I'm curious and would like to study the subject and see if and how I could have built mine in a different way.
                                                      Last edited by theSven; 26 March 2023, 12:52 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
                                                      Joaquim

                                                      DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                      DIY subwoofers.
                                                      Zaph ZD3C.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Steve Manning
                                                        Moderator
                                                        • Dec 2006
                                                        • 1879

                                                        Originally posted by cochinada
                                                        Those look like fillets of some kind of wood but the idea of some sort of gasket is interesting indeed.

                                                        BTW can you guys please show me some links of builds with curved faces not using translam but curved sheets? I'm searching here in the forum but can't find many examples.
                                                        It's too late for me but I'm curious and would like to study the subject and see if and how I could have built mine in a different way.
                                                        If your looking at how to do curved surfaces, this site ought to give you some ideas. http://www.curvomatic.com/
                                                        Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                                        WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                                        Comment

                                                        • cochinada
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • May 2014
                                                          • 658

                                                          Originally posted by Steve Manning
                                                          If your looking at how to do curved surfaces, this site ought to give you some ideas. http://www.curvomatic.com/
                                                          Thanks Steve. Very interesting! Any build threads to look around?

                                                          Picking up TEK's suggestion, I'm thinking about using some kind of gasket in order to disguise the joint between the boxes. For instance here in red:

                                                          Image not available

                                                          Since I'm going to order gasket foam for my drivers...

                                                          Image not available

                                                          ...I was wondering if I should use the same stuff for this purpose or do you think that a rubber material would be more suitable? I'm thinking to apply it all around the MTM as below:

                                                          Image not available
                                                          Last edited by theSven; 20 June 2023, 21:35 Tuesday. Reason: Remove broken image links
                                                          Joaquim

                                                          DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                          DIY subwoofers.
                                                          Zaph ZD3C.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • dar47
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Nov 2008
                                                            • 873

                                                            You take printer toner cartage black ink powder mix with epoxy and slowly build up the gap. Use quick setting and let the epoxy thicken a lot so you can get thicker layer in the joint with one pass. Just put tape on either side of the joint. Granted it will take time.

                                                            Gives a subtle effect, see the joint between baffle and top and sides of this build. Makes the joint not even noticeable. You can use your gasket material between boxes.

                                                            Image not availableā€‹
                                                            Last edited by theSven; 30 June 2023, 16:30 Friday. Reason: Remove broken image link

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Steve Manning
                                                              Moderator
                                                              • Dec 2006
                                                              • 1879

                                                              Originally posted by cochinada
                                                              Thanks Steve. Very interesting! Any build threads to look around?
                                                              Joaquim, if you look towards the bottom of the projects section on the site you will find something on speakers.
                                                              Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                                              WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                                              Comment

                                                              • CraigJ
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Feb 2006
                                                                • 518

                                                                Hi Joaquim,

                                                                I've followed your initial build and sorry about the movement in your BB. Although I don't quite have the talent as some members, my experience with woodworking would say to follow Steve's advice here; http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...l=1#post618681 I started making reproduction antiques 40+ years ago, and some of the furniture is still moving today.

                                                                My guess is you will most likely have more gaps from expanding and contracting in the future, and you might as well keep it simple. Using epoxy will allow you to add filler and tint if you want and with time, and will look very similar to a thin layer of BB.

                                                                Craig

                                                                Comment

                                                                • cochinada
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • May 2014
                                                                  • 658

                                                                  Originally posted by dar47
                                                                  You take printer toner cartage black ink powder mix with epoxy and slowly build up the gap. Use quick setting and let the epoxy thicken a lot so you can get thicker layer in the joint with one pass. Just put tape on either side of the joint. Granted it will take time.

                                                                  Gives a subtle effect, see the joint between baffle and top and sides of this build. Makes the joint not even noticeable. You can use your gasket material between boxes.

                                                                  Image not availableā€‹
                                                                  ā€‹

                                                                  Thanks for the suggestion.

                                                                  Originally posted by Steve Manning
                                                                  Joaquim, if you look towards the bottom of the projects section on the site you will find something on speakers.
                                                                  I've navigated already to page 4 but with not much luck.

                                                                  Originally posted by CraigJ
                                                                  Hi Joaquim,

                                                                  I've followed your initial build and sorry about the movement in your BB. Although I don't quite have the talent as some members, my experience with woodworking would say to follow Steve's advice here; http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...l=1#post618681 I started making reproduction antiques 40+ years ago, and some of the furniture is still moving today.

                                                                  My guess is you will most likely have more gaps from expanding and contracting in the future, and you might as well keep it simple. Using epoxy will allow you to add filler and tint if you want and with time, and will look very similar to a thin layer of BB.

                                                                  Craig
                                                                  :E I sure hope this won't happen to me. Anyway my cracks were really nasty as they were not 'even'. As such my try with the epoxy didn't go very well. :cry:

                                                                  I'm gonna take the chance now and enlarge the holes a bit in case I decide to go and paint the boxes. I'm using templates as someone already did elsewhere with very good results.

                                                                  Image not available
                                                                  Last edited by theSven; 30 June 2023, 16:31 Friday. Reason: Remove broken image links
                                                                  Joaquim

                                                                  DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                  DIY subwoofers.
                                                                  Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • lusk
                                                                    Junior Member
                                                                    • Jul 2013
                                                                    • 1

                                                                    Did you seal the plywood layers on the inside of the enclosure? Going back through your build pictures l can't see that
                                                                    you sealed the wood on the inside. I have also built stacked ply layer and has not cracked in many years +5 just
                                                                    made sure wood layers were sealed inside and out. Something to consider as it may continue to crack.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • cochinada
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • May 2014
                                                                      • 658

                                                                      Originally posted by lusk
                                                                      Did you seal the plywood layers on the inside of the enclosure? Going back through your build pictures l can't see that
                                                                      you sealed the wood on the inside. I have also built stacked ply layer and has not cracked in many years +5 just
                                                                      made sure wood layers were sealed inside and out. Something to consider as it may continue to crack.
                                                                      I don't think my carpenter did it
                                                                      Joaquim

                                                                      DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                      DIY subwoofers.
                                                                      Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • JonMarsh
                                                                        Mad Max Moderator
                                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                                        • 15259

                                                                        Originally posted by cochinada
                                                                        Indeed . I got it on eBay here. They come in two sizes and I got the most beefed ones.

                                                                        Got mine in yesterday! :T
                                                                        the AudioWorx
                                                                        Natalie P
                                                                        M8ta
                                                                        Modula Neo DCC
                                                                        Modula MT XE
                                                                        Modula Xtreme
                                                                        Isiris
                                                                        Wavecor Ardent

                                                                        SMJ
                                                                        Minerva Monitor
                                                                        Calliope
                                                                        Ardent D

                                                                        In Development...
                                                                        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                        Obi-Wan
                                                                        Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                        Modula PWB
                                                                        Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                        Natalie P Ultra
                                                                        Natalie P Supreme
                                                                        Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • cochinada
                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                          • May 2014
                                                                          • 658

                                                                          Originally posted by JonMarsh
                                                                          Got mine in yesterday! :T
                                                                          First impressions?
                                                                          Joaquim

                                                                          DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                          DIY subwoofers.
                                                                          Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • cochinada
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • May 2014
                                                                            • 658

                                                                            So, I have a feeling of dƩjƠ vu but the challenge is immense. I don't know if it is because the drivers are removed but now this vertical gap on the baffle looks huge! I don't know what is worse...
                                                                            I'm waiting for my carpenter to come and pick up this box first.

                                                                            The gap...
                                                                            Image not available

                                                                            and the crack...
                                                                            Image not available
                                                                            Last edited by theSven; 26 March 2023, 12:53 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
                                                                            Joaquim

                                                                            DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                            DIY subwoofers.
                                                                            Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • roadrune
                                                                              Junior Member
                                                                              • May 2017
                                                                              • 23

                                                                              Hi, first of all, sorry if this has been adressed earlier, i only joined the forum today, and have just skimmed through this entire thread.

                                                                              The cracks is IMO natural and logig, because wood tend to move alot more one way then the other, lengthwise (thinking the way the three grows) it is shrinking very littl, but the other way it is moving alot, when you have built the speakers like you have with the baffle using the "length" of the wood and the cab sides the "width" of the wood they will shrink and expand differently, and eventually crack, even with plywood this will be true, just not as much as if you used hardwood.

                                                                              My guess to fix this permanently would be to either get a perfectly constant humidity and temperature in the room (almost impossible) or cover all the wood inside and out with something 100% water and diffution proof like epoxy...

                                                                              Really sad though, its a beautiful build.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • cochinada
                                                                                Senior Member
                                                                                • May 2014
                                                                                • 658

                                                                                Thanks roadrune.

                                                                                Yes that makes perfect sense. The most curious is that the crack happened exactly in the middle of one entire layer but not between two different layers. So the problem was not with the gluing but with the material itself which according to my carpenter was of the highest grade available here and this wasn't supposed to happen this way. I think it's also possible to see on the picture that half of the piece has cracked in one direction and the other half on the opposite direction. Weird stuff really...

                                                                                Anyway, after much pondering I decided I'm going to paint them. I think, under the circumstances, that it is the best way to solve all these visual problems with the gaps and so on.

                                                                                Unfortunately it's not possible anymore to cover the inside walls with epoxy or any kind of material as there is no access to most of it. This is even more the case since they are already completely filled with acoustic stuff and with the cables soldered to the rear terminals which I'm not going to remove. Just the thought of it makes me tired and anyway it wouldn't help. There was a chance perhaps to have done this before gluing the outer panels but now is too late I'm afraid.

                                                                                For those who are curious I've decided to go with.... piano black. :P

                                                                                Yes, I know it will reveal all minor imperfections if the preparation is not up to the higher standards but I'll give it a shot, mostly because the only color that I find in harmony with my living room would be some sort of metallic red dark tone but I already have a pair in red and I want something different.
                                                                                Joaquim

                                                                                DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                                DIY subwoofers.
                                                                                Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • roadrune
                                                                                  Junior Member
                                                                                  • May 2017
                                                                                  • 23

                                                                                  Nooooo, not black!

                                                                                  It would be a shame to hide all that nice wood...

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • cochinada
                                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                                    • May 2014
                                                                                    • 658

                                                                                    I'm afraid not hiding the wood means living with all the flaws and possibly becoming worse with time so...

                                                                                    Image not available
                                                                                    Last edited by theSven; 20 June 2023, 21:35 Tuesday. Reason: Remove broken image link
                                                                                    Joaquim

                                                                                    DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                                    DIY subwoofers.
                                                                                    Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • LFM2
                                                                                      Junior Member
                                                                                      • Jul 2011
                                                                                      • 6

                                                                                      I recommend you look into having them wrapped with 3M vinyl for cars. It is durable and will look as good as paint. It will expand and contract with humidity without splitting and can be removed and replaced quite easily. I would worry that paint will crack as the wood moves and then it will be difficult and expensive to repair. I would be tempted to just wrap them and wait a few years for them to stabilize. I would then unwrap them and if things hadn't deteriorated much then repair.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Steve Manning
                                                                                        Moderator
                                                                                        • Dec 2006
                                                                                        • 1879

                                                                                        Originally posted by LFM2
                                                                                        I recommend you look into having them wrapped with 3M vinyl for cars. It is durable and will look as good as paint. It will expand and contract with humidity without splitting and can be removed and replaced quite easily. I would worry that paint will crack as the wood moves and then it will be difficult and expensive to repair. I would be tempted to just wrap them and wait a few years for them to stabilize. I would then unwrap them and if things hadn't deteriorated much then repair.
                                                                                        Good idea .... I agree, I don't think these cabinets are done moving around and putting time and money into a nice paint job will be a waste.
                                                                                        Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                                                                        WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Juhazi
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • May 2008
                                                                                          • 239

                                                                                          ^^ and ^Wise advice!
                                                                                          My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, CSS125FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470Dayton, -13 AINOgradient, -18 Avalanche AS-1 dsp, -18 MR183w

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • cochinada
                                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                                            • May 2014
                                                                                            • 658

                                                                                            Originally posted by LFM2
                                                                                            I recommend you look into having them wrapped with 3M vinyl for cars. It is durable and will look as good as paint. It will expand and contract with humidity without splitting and can be removed and replaced quite easily. I would worry that paint will crack as the wood moves and then it will be difficult and expensive to repair. I would be tempted to just wrap them and wait a few years for them to stabilize. I would then unwrap them and if things hadn't deteriorated much then repair.
                                                                                            I never thought about that but certainly sounds like a terrific option. I already saw come cars wrapped in vinyl and indeed they look like they were (very well) painted. Nevertheless I have to consider some points:

                                                                                            1 - My carpenter has now also a paint shop for which he will charge me nothing as this is a repair job according to him.
                                                                                            2 - I don't think he has ever used vinyl before and from what I've seen it still takes a considerable amount of skills to do a neat job. My experience in the area is none.
                                                                                            3 - Vinyl is a bit costly, specially when we talk about the material needed for a pair of speakers this size.
                                                                                            4 - And this is the big question: are these stabilized already after more than one year or not?

                                                                                            Anyway I've sent him an email with this possibility but he hasn't returned it yet.
                                                                                            Bottom line is that for now I have the option of painting basically for free but being subject to some future hazards. On the other hand if I go with vinyl this will cost me something right now.
                                                                                            Joaquim

                                                                                            DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                                            DIY subwoofers.
                                                                                            Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            Working...
                                                                                            😀
                                                                                            😂
                                                                                            🥰
                                                                                            😘
                                                                                            🤢
                                                                                            😎
                                                                                            😞
                                                                                            😡
                                                                                            👍
                                                                                            👎
                                                                                            Searching...Please wait.
                                                                                            An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                                                                            Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                                            An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                                                                            Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                                            An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                                                                            There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                                                                            Search Result for "|||"