Interesting Drivers

[Oneminde]

Since for some reason I can't find Epique drivers anywhere, what am I missing. I would like to know more about them.

[Jonasz]

Since for some reason I can't find Epique drivers anywhere, what am I missing. I would like to know more about them.

Maybe they will end up here in the future?

http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/epique

[Oneminde]

Maybe they will end up here in the future?
http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/epique

So they are Dayton drivers ? Interesting

[fish fingers]

Since for some reason I can't find Epique drivers anywhere, what am I missing. I would like to know more about them.

We are all waiting for Dayton/PE to drop some more info... curious to know the parameters and if Dayton have added 4 ohm versions of each

[Oneminde]

We are all waiting for Dayton/PE to drop some more info... curious to know the parameters and if Dayton have added 4 ohm versions of each

Yes, very interesting. And now we wait

[Oneminde]

"The Epique drivers were displayed in our suite at CES as some of our new and exciting products to come. They should be in stock the beginning of Q2."

[Face]

ScanSpeak Ellipticor drivers are now at Madisound. Yonicor would have been an appropriate name as well.

[JonMarsh]

"The Epique drivers were displayed in our suite at CES as some of our new and exciting products to come. They should be in stock the beginning of Q2."

I'm looking forward to seeing details even if current circumstances will hinder doing something with them in the near future...

[olu78]

My apologies for taking so long to post the following data. The following data is of course preliminary, derived from samples, and could change in the final released versions. I am curious to hear your feedback!

[JonMarsh]

Thanks for sharing- hard to draw any real conclusions, except that there should be some real potential if the nonlinear distortion is reasonable and if you stay away from the cone resonances, depending of course on the filter roll of rates.

I'd hazard the opinion that the 220 is only useable in a two way if you've got a large waveguide with practical loading down to 1kHz or so... the impedance curves do look nice and flat in both cases, so HD may be pretty reasonable, if the asymmetrical linearity is good. Sensitivity seems pretty high for nominal 8 ohm drivers. (Re>6 ohms minimum)

[fish fingers]

I was hoping the E220 might be able to cross to a C51 cell? The high sensitivity is great, altho for the woofer I wd prefer a touch lower fs.
The obvious 'want' is a 4ohm version of the E160, for 3 way versions

[kevinlin1013]

I was hoping the E220 might be able to cross to a C51 cell? The high sensitivity is great, altho for the woofer I wd prefer a touch lower fs.
The obvious 'want' is a 4ohm version of the E160, for 3 way versions

I think that will be no problem.
C51 Cell should be able to cross about 800~1K depend on how much SPL you need.

[fish fingers]

C51 Cell should be able to cross about 800~1K depend on how much SPL you need.

Yes maybe a steep slope at 900hz.
A 3.5way cd be interesting.
Ie Viawave/C51/2x E220



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[Oneminde]

olu78: Out of curiosity since I am interested in these drivers.

1. How come you have access to tests ?
2. Do you know the size range the Epique will come in ?
3. Estimated retail price ?

[cochinada]

I dislike that small impedance peak at around 2500Hz. I've seen somewhere that this normally produces higher distortion or something bad as well.

[tktran]

SB Acoustics-

12" woofer designed for open baffle:

http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/coming-soon/12-sb34nrx75-16/

1" ceramic dome tweeter:

http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/coming-soon/sb26cdc-c000-4/

2nd generation RNX2 series:

http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/coming-soon/6-sb17nrx2c35-4/

[JonMarsh]

All very interesting looking parts- the SB26CDC may have more general appeal, but the RNX2 part looks interesting, as does the woofer for dipole applications. In fact, the combination of these drivers could work very well!

SB Acoustics-

12" woofer designed for open baffle:

http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/coming-soon/12-sb34nrx75-16/

1" ceramic dome tweeter:

http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/coming-soon/sb26cdc-c000-4/

2nd generation RNX2 series:
http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php...sb17nrx2c35-4/

[Jonasz]

Rumour say SBA have a waveguide in the pipeline, anyone know anything about that?

[5th element]

All very interesting looking parts- the SB26CDC may have more general appeal, but the RNX2 part looks interesting, as does the woofer for dipole applications. In fact, the combination of these drivers could work very well!

Haha, yes Jon, just buy them all! (And make something later.)

The ceramic dome looks to be identical(?) to the SB26ADC only with a different dome. Well the ADC has stellar HD performance so the ceramic version is likely to as well. The ceramic is probably just a heavy oxidation layer on top of aluminium but still, it appears to have a less pronounced breakup.

I actually think that it's a big shame that SB chose their 'ring-radiator' motor and suspension for the SB29BAC, rather than the one from the ADC. Arguably the ADCs is quite a bit better.

The open baffle optimised driver will be helpful for those that want to use one.

It's going to be interesting to see how the RNX2 measure with regards to HD. The 1-2kHz range looks marginally improved (perhaps) in the new versions but the most obvious difference is that they've dropped the sensitivity by a little, no doubt this will provide deeper bass in similarly optimised cabinets. Arguably the only real issue that version one had was the high HD in the bass. Maybe they will have fixed this.

[5th element]

Rumour say SBA have a waveguide in the pipeline, anyone know anything about that?

That definitely sounds interesting. Is the idea for a waveguide that can then be used with all of their tweeters, or a waveguide + tweeter, like the SEAS DXT?

[Jonasz]

That definitely sounds interesting. Is the idea for a waveguide that can then be used with all of their tweeters, or a waveguide + tweeter, like the SEAS DXT?

As I understand it it will be a smaller aluminium wg made for their SB26 tweeter, don’t know any more than that.

[DS-21]

As I understand it it will be a smaller aluminium wg made for their SB26 tweeter, don’t know any more than that.

IOW, this:



I was surprised Harman didn’t demand exclusivity on the white “ceramic” cones. I suspect there’s something preventing them from adopting the Revel WG or a variant in their stock line though.

[Jonasz]

IOW, this:



I was surprised Harman didn’t demand exclusivity on the white “ceramic” cones. I suspect there’s something preventing them from adopting the Revel WG or a variant in their stock line though.

Well, let’s hope it will be a round version, wouldn’t buy an oval shaped wg, way too complicated to flush mount, for me at least... :W

[5th element]

It'd be nice if SB would release a metal version of their small neo tweeter. Hopefully with performance similarly in-line with the full size version.

Elliptical drivers are a pain in the behind to mount although from the point of view of a waveguide they do make sense. Keep the vertical C2C mounting distance short and provide more directivity control where it matters, the horizontal.

[Jonasz]

Elliptical drivers are a pain in the behind to mount although from the point of view of a waveguide they do make sense. Keep the vertical C2C mounting distance short and provide more directivity control where it matters, the horizontal.

I agree, but why not do it like the Seos 8? Elliptical wg with rectangular external shape. :T

[Jonasz]

Double post... :unsure:

[5th element]

I agree, but why not do it like the Seos 8? Elliptical wg with rectangular external shape. :T

From my point of view a rectangle isn't really any easier than an ellipse. If I'm counter sinking into wood/MDF it requires the same process to counter sink, ie get out the inlay router kit.

It's a lot easier to design a 3D printed model for the rectangle though.

[5th element]

I agree, but why not do it like the Seos 8? Elliptical wg with rectangular external shape. :T

From my point of view a rectangle isn't really any easier than an ellipse. If I'm counter sinking into wood/MDF it requires the same process to counter sink, ie get out the inlay router kit.

It's a lot easier to design a 3D printed model for the rectangle though.

[JonMarsh]

Haha, yes Jon, just buy them all! (And make something later.)

The ceramic dome looks to be identical(?) to the SB26ADC only with a different dome. Well the ADC has stellar HD performance so the ceramic version is likely to as well. The ceramic is probably just a heavy oxidation layer on top of aluminium but still, it appears to have a less pronounced breakup.

I actually think that it's a big shame that SB chose their 'ring-radiator' motor and suspension for the SB29BAC, rather than the one from the ADC. Arguably the ADCs is quite a bit better.

The open baffle optimised driver will be helpful for those that want to use one.

It's going to be interesting to see how the RNX2 measure with regards to HD. The 1-2kHz range looks marginally improved (perhaps) in the new versions but the most obvious difference is that they've dropped the sensitivity by a little, no doubt this will provide deeper bass in similarly optimised cabinets. Arguably the only real issue that version one had was the high HD in the bass. Maybe they will have fixed this.

Yes, I'll definitely sample that tweeter once it's in release...

[bvbellomo]

From my point of view a rectangle isn't really any easier than an ellipse. If I'm counter sinking into wood/MDF it requires the same process to counter sink, ie get out the inlay router kit.

It's a lot easier to design a 3D printed model for the rectangle though.

What's wrong with an elliptical driver with a circular external shape?

[Jonasz]

What's wrong with an elliptical driver with a circular external shape?

Unnecessary large ctc distance.

[bvbellomo]

Unnecessary large ctc distance.

So these are supposed to go horizontal? I'd assume that disperses the same as 2 circular woofers horizontally - wider vertical dispersion and narrower horizontally, not what you'd want.

You could do truncated circular frames with a standard router.

[Zvu]

Actually narrow vertical and wider horizontal dispersion is quite desirable feature. Closer ctc distance and removing reflections in vertical plane (at least tweeter induced). Earl Geddes wrote on more than one occasion that elliptical OS waveguide is superior to round one but it's a bitch to make and that's the reason Summa doesn't have it.

[bvbellomo]

Actually narrow vertical and wider horizontal dispersion is quite desirable feature.

but wider vertical and narrow horizontal dispersion is not.

[fish fingers]

IOW, this:



I was surprised Harman didn’t demand exclusivity on the white “ceramic” cones. I suspect there’s something preventing them from adopting the Revel WG or a variant in their stock line though.

SB's decision to release the ceramic range coincided with new ownership of Revel - maybe just a coincidence, maybe not.

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[Jonasz]

So these are supposed to go horizontal? I'd assume that disperses the same as 2 circular woofers horizontally - wider vertical dispersion and narrower horizontally, not what you'd want.

I believe it’s the other way around as you can see in the Seos 15 diagram below. I’m sure the same applies to the Seos 8.



On the other hand JBL likes their horns vertical in some designs...

[DS-21]

SB's decision to release the ceramic range coincided with new ownership of Revel - maybe just a coincidence, maybe not.

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I doubt that the purchase of Harman International by Samsung changed any contractural relationships between their tiny Revel division and SB Acoustics. If anything, Samsung has more lawyers, who are probably hungry for work now that Samsung's phones and washers seem to have stopped blowing up.

[tktran]

Anyone noticed these before? Are they relatively new?

SB 8" with 12mm geometric x-max

http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/products/subwoofers/8-sb23mfcl45-8/

SB 12" with 15mm geometric x-max

http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/products/subwoofers/12in-sb34swpl76-4/

[olu78]

The April 2018 edition of Voicecoil Magazine features the Dayton Epique drive-units on the cover, with a brief description of the upcoming driver specs. There is also a short discussion of the Bliesma tweeter, which will be reviewed in an upcoming issue. The Ellipticor midbass and tweeter are both tested; the Ellipticor midbass in particular, displays quite impressive distortion performance, and overall performance.

[Oneminde]

The BlieSMA T34A-4 tweeter shows really promising stats.

The Dayton Audio Epique E160CF-8 (5.1/4") show a nice cumulative spectral decay with almost no ringing between 100-2kHz - this is an extremely wide-range driver and I suspect it will handle transients really good.
The Dayton Audio Epique E220CF-8 (8") is equally impressive with an impressive Qms of 7.14, Qes 0,26 and Qts of a low 0.26. The SPL is really nice sitting at 91.5 dB. The Cumulative spectral decay is a bit uncontrolled but a good cabinet and filter can take care of that.

Well done Dayton.

http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/epique-by-dayton-audio/epique-drivers.html

[fish fingers]

$299 launch price for the 8". Not too bad.

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[bvbellomo]

Many will disagree with me, but I think low mechanical losses (RMS) is one of the more important considerations for a driver. If the posted parameters are correct, the E220CF-8 comes in with .597 kg/s (Rms = 2Pi * Fs * Mms / Qms, 2Pi * 26.9 * 25.2 / 7.14), probably better than anything else this size. The E160CF-8 is still good, but far less impressive.

That said, I can't understand why anyone makes, buys or uses an 8 inch driver. You can't cross low enough avoid beaming in a 2-way. And I wouldn't use these without a sub, they barely have enough extension to cross below 80hz.

[Jonasz]

I use the Jantzen 8" crossed just north of 1kHz to a SS6640 in an 8" waveguide. Sounds very good to me at least. :P

Oh, and I also think low mechanical damping could be desireable.

[fish fingers]

I wouldn't use these without a sub, they barely have enough extension to cross below 80hz.

modelling and increasing the cab size can reach down to maybe low 40s -maybe adding a small line of glue/mass to the underside of the cone wd work

But it's a good driver for amp friendly builds



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[Zvu]

I'm struggling to see what's so good about Epique 220. Especially for 500$ (300$ sale) price. I guess we'll have to wait and see the measurements to see how it compares to 145$ Seas U22 or similar. I really can't make any fine judgement based on datasheet.