Dave P. Wavguide testing: 5 tweeters

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  • dlneubec
    Super Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 1454

    Dave P. Wavguide testing: 5 tweeters

    You may have seen this thread over on PR tech talk. ABS Waveguide Thread Dave Pellegrene has a thread about creating some elliptical waveguides using various plastic materials, a heat gun and a pressing method. He has sent me four samples to do some testing on. All were originally created for the Vifa OX20 ¾” neo dome tweeter. All are similar in profile. Two are opaque white and two are clear. Three were trimmed to about a 4.5”x6.5” rectangular face, one was trimmed to an elliptical face shape. Here is a photo of them:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	DSCF0129.JPG Views:	2761 Size:	57.6 KB ID:	870995

    The opaque/white ones are pretty much identical and measure that way. They are trimmed a little differently in the throat than the other two. These continue with the throat curve until flush with the tweeter faceplate. The other two have the throat bored out such that there is a lip at the interface with the tweeter face that is 90º for a distance of maybe 1/8”-1/4” before intersecting the throat curve. I point this out because I think this is the difference we see in the measurements, particularly with the dome tweeters.

    Testing was done with waveguides 1-3 with the OX20 and its ring radiator brother, the OT19.

    The fourth and clear waveguide was bored out in the throat with a 1-3/8” forstner bit, creating about a 1-7/16” opening and a very sharp edge at the 90º throat terminus. Since it has a larger opening, I was able to test it with the Transducer Labs N26C ceramic, the Airborne soft dome and the RS28F. It was actually too small for the RS28, but due to its sharp terminus, it fit inside of the metal ring around the dome and flush against the metal mesh grill.

    Testing was done as described in this post:

    DIY (Do it yourself): Cabinetry, speakers, subwoofers, crossovers, measurements. Jon and Thomas have probably designed and built as many speakers as any non-professionals. Who are we kidding? They are pros, they just don't do it for a living. This has got to be one of the most advanced places on the net to talk speaker building, period.


    Here are the results for the OX20 in waveguides 1-3. All are horizontal off axis at 0-15-30-45 and 60 degrees. Note the cancellations in the top octave of the WG1 and WG2, but not in WG3. Note that WG3 has the 90º bore to the throat terminus and it is different than 1 and 2 in that sense. These are posted in order 1-3.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	OX20_69mm_2d7ms_spl_0-60d_whiteWG1.jpg Views:	2514 Size:	68.9 KB ID:	870996

    Click image for larger version  Name:	OX20_69mm_2d7ms_spl_0-60d_whiteWG2.jpg Views:	2452 Size:	67.0 KB ID:	870997

    Click image for larger version  Name:	OX20_69mm_2d7ms_spl_0-60d_clearWG3.jpg Views:	2496 Size:	68.5 KB ID:	870998
    Last edited by theSven; 07 May 2023, 07:02 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
    Dan N.
  • dlneubec
    Super Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 1454

    #2
    Here are the results for the Vifa OT19 in the same three waveguides. Notice how the ring radiator eliminated the cancelations in the top octave of WG1 and WG2. These are in order 1-3.

    Click image for larger version

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    Click image for larger version

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    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by theSven; 07 May 2023, 07:03 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
    Dan N.

    Comment

    • dlneubec
      Super Senior Member
      • Jan 2006
      • 1454

      #3
      Here are the results of the N26C, horiztonal and vertical. Grey is the flat baffle response:

      Click image for larger version

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      Click image for larger version

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      RS28, horiztonal and vertical:

      Click image for larger version

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      Click image for larger version

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      Airborne, horiztonal only:

      Click image for larger version

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      I for one think Dave is really on to something here with these. It appears that domes seem to like the 1/8"-1/4" 90º change at the throat that occured in WG3 and WG4. The ring radiator was probably better with WG1 and WG2 where there was no abrupt change in angle to the throat.

      They look darn good both horizontally and vertically, in the cases I measured vertical off axis.

      Keep up the good work, Dave!
      Last edited by theSven; 07 May 2023, 07:04 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
      Dan N.

      Comment

      • JonMarsh
        Mad Max Moderator
        • Aug 2000
        • 15282

        #4
        Dan, thanks for posting these results over here- appreciate you sharing this work and the details.

        I'll be testing the N26c with both modified and "stock' Jantzen waveguides, so it will be interesting to see how this all turns out. The profile on my existing SS mounted waveguides is a little offbeat too, something like a short straight section transitioning to the waveguide taper.

        If there's any way for you to post the overall waveguide cross sections, that would be interesting- actually, I suppose I ought to go over to TechTalk and see what's there!
        the AudioWorx
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        Comment

        • dlneubec
          Super Senior Member
          • Jan 2006
          • 1454

          #5
          Jon,

          I can probably get my hands on the profiles that were used for the glass fiber ones (the round ones I posted a week or so ago on the N26C and also on the Neo3), though I'm not sure about these plastic ones posted in this thread. I'll see if anything is available.

          These plastic ones are only about 1/8" thick, so one could certainly photograph them from the side and probably import the image, recreate and scale them in a cad program.
          Dan N.

          Comment

          • Bear
            Super Senior Member
            • Dec 2008
            • 1038

            #6
            Has anyone compared these waveguide profiles to what might be generated from the equations given in Voice Coil recently? I haven't had a lot of time recently to compare what was presented there vs. what's going on over at PE...
            Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

            Comment

            • JonMarsh
              Mad Max Moderator
              • Aug 2000
              • 15282

              #7
              Originally posted by dlneubec
              Jon,

              I can probably get my hands on the profiles that were used for the glass fiber ones (the round ones I posted a week or so ago on the N26C and also on the Neo3), though I'm not sure about these plastic ones posted in this thread. I'll see if anything is available.

              These plastic ones are only about 1/8" thick, so one could certainly photograph them from the side and probably import the image, recreate and scale them in a cad program.
              It's pretty cool stuff what he did with hot molding. Won't change my immediate plans, but definitely something to note. Though it would raise the construction challenge and effort even higher.
              the AudioWorx
              Natalie P
              M8ta
              Modula Neo DCC
              Modula MT XE
              Modula Xtreme
              Isiris
              Wavecor Ardent

              SMJ
              Minerva Monitor
              Calliope
              Ardent D

              In Development...
              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
              Obi-Wan
              Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
              Modula PWB
              Calliope CC Supreme
              Natalie P Ultra
              Natalie P Supreme
              Janus BP1 Sub


              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

              Comment

              • dlneubec
                Super Senior Member
                • Jan 2006
                • 1454

                #8
                Jon,

                Did you see the little mold he did to form a small WG around the flange of a woofer? That really begins to show the potential. If not, check out this post:

                Want a second or third opinion about your speaker cabinet design or other audio related problem? Post your question or comment on the Technical Discussion Board. Hundreds of technicians, engineers, and hobbyists, nationwide read and discuss electronics related questions each week. We welcome your participation


                Pretty cool stuff. You're right, however, it will complicate construction and we have to learn what steps it takes to make sure those WG's aren't making music of their own! :W

                Lots more experimentation on the implementation side will be needed.

                The really cool thing about it, IMO, is it is the epitomy of DIY and with some details published as to his methods, we could all be doing custom WG's to fit our unique needs, should we so desire.
                Dan N.

                Comment

                • matt12v
                  Member
                  • Mar 2006
                  • 30

                  #9
                  This is so cool. True DIY! Thanks for sharing Dan.

                  Comment

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