2RCC (Statement Inspired) Center Channel

[deewan]

After build a pair of Statement speakers for my home theater to replace my Paradigm Monitor 7's, I knew I needed to build the Statement family matching center channel. Only there was one problem. In both my current theater and my planned (future) theater, I want to us an AT screen so having a large CC speaker that sits about 2 feet away from the front wall while still being hide a screen was going to be an issue. Then I came across Frodaddy's thread about a version of the Statement CC speaker that needed to be built due to his unique setup and the regular Statement CC not working for him. With Jed's help, Frodaddy was able to build a center channel speaker using the same drivers as The Statements but while keeping the cabinet completely sealed and eliminating the need for it to be placed away from the front wall. I knew I had found my answer. So this thread will be my build process following the original and very well documented thread found at:
https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31523.

Thanks to dumaresq for this sketchup model of the 2RCC cabinet.

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[deewan]

This build is not going to be a rush project for two reasons. First, it is college football season and Saturdays get no attention unless I am tailgating or enjoying a game. Second, I currently have a nice CC speaker (Paradigm CC-370). So I am not missing out on anything there.

I had some ¾ inch mdf left over from a shelf building project I had been working on. Some of it was already painted black, but that would not effect this speaker cabinet, so to the table saw I went. Using the cabinet dimensions found on Frodaddy’s thread, I made the cuts for the cabinet and the internal bracing.

I then began gluing everything together. I did not attach the top plate and front baffle to allow for easier sound dampening material application and internal wiring once the crossover components arrive (ordered them today). I plan on wiring these like my Statements to allow for bi-amping. Once I get this CC done, I will begin shopping for a 6 channel amp to run the front channels in the theater.

With most of the cabinet pieced together, I used some silicone rubber sealant to make sure the box was going to be air tight.

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Here you can see the internal bracing. I used a ½ inch roundover bit to round the inside edges of the holes on the bracing.

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Last part of today’s work, I measured out the placements of the drivers and drilled holes for the Jasper jig dowel. Remember that unless the regular Statement CC, this speaker uses the same 8 inch Dayton drivers and two of the Tang Band midrange drivers.

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I might not get to do anything more with this project again until next weekend. Though if the crossover components are delivered from PE this week, I might start on that.

[wajam]

Lookin Good!

Subscribed. :yesnod:

[Jed]

Glad to see some builds of this design. Keep the pics coming.

[jyqureshi]

Thanks deewan for the music recommendations

When are you updating this thread?

[deewan]

Thanks deewan for the music recommendations

When are you updating this thread?

You are more than welcome. I like to give back any way I can.

I will be updating this thread this weekend. I've been VERY busy at work this week so no time to do anything with this speaker build. But I plan on using the router tomorrow morning for the front baffle and then doing some crossover work this weekend sometime. Though one crossover piece was on backorder from PE and wasn't shipped until ysterday. So I might not be able to get the crossover completely finished.

[deewan]

Ok, here is Saturday's update. Didn't get as much done as I wanted to. Might have been because I drank a little too much before and during the Iowa vs OSU game. That Templeton Rye gets me every time.

Got the holes for all the drivers recessed and cut.

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Got the front baffle edge done (45 degree)

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Used a 3/4 inch roundover bit to give the drivers some breathing room.

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I was hoping to start wiring the crossover tonight, but I didn't make it to Radio Shack to buy any wire today. I love using their 12 awg wire. Just a personal preference. I also realized that while I still have to order the midrange(s) and tweeter, I also had not ordered the Sonic Barrier and polyfill. So I am unable to attach the top and front baffle onto the cabinet even after I wire and install the crossover. So, those two items will just need to be added to the PE cart when I order the midrange drivers. Unless someone knows someplace to order that would be cheaper than PE and worth while.

[deewan]

I'm wondering now before I place another order. With my Statement build, I used unfaced wall insulation to line all the surfaces inside the woofer cambers. I know this cabinet is not ported like my Statements, but I am wondering if instead of using the 3/4" Sonic Barrier in the woofer chamber if I should use the same insulation to keep things the same across the board. I still plan on using the sonic barrier inside the midrange/tweeter area. But just unfaced insulation and maybe the remaining 1/3 lbs of poly fill in the woofer chamber.

Thoughts?

[Jed]

Deewan, I would keep the mid chamber dampening the same like you suggest and fill the woofer chambers since the box is sealed. Fiberglass is fine for the woofer chamber, and after listening you can add or delete fill based on your taste. So to save a few bucks you can use fiberglass in the woofer chamber, with the walls lined, and then the poly everywhere else.

[deewan]

Jed, thanks for your help and input. Since I have some insulation left from my Statement build, this sight change won't cost me a dime. I'm off to buy the wire and some wood sealer and spray paint for the front baffle now. I'm excited to hear this bad boy once everything is wired up.

[deewan]

Not a lot of progress today, but some. I have the woofer chambers lined with insulated fiberglass. Sealed the front baffle and even got one coat of primer paint on it. The front baffle will be painted blacked with a fine textured painting mathing the baffles on my Statement build. The rest of the cabinet will be covered in Black Ash Vinyl Laminate. Since the speaker will be behind the screen eventually, I didn't see a need to make it match the Statements. And an all black speaker will reflect less light back through the screen.

I also started on the crossovers. For some reason my brain is having a hard time processing the crossover diagram and the picture Frodaddy supplied in his build. Lucky for me I built my Statements to be bi-amped and wanted the same for my CC, so Frodaddy's crossover pic helped me there. But still having some problems and doubting myself. Here is a picture of Frodaddy's crossover that I am modeling with where I believe I need to make my connection points for the drivers and the amps. Anyone care to double check my work?

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[Jed]

Connections look good. Maybe I should put your pic with the labels in the main thread.

Jed

[deewan]

Thanks Jed. Feel free to use my pic anywhere you like. I'll finish up my crossover tonight and continue work on the cabinet tonight.

[jeffc]

Looking Good DW! Can't wait to hear it!

[deewan]

Looking Good DW! Can't wait to hear it!

Thanks. Once FedEx decides to deliver my backordered resistors which have been circling the city for the past two days I can complete the crossovers and start to seal up the cabinet. Then I just need to wait for the Dayton woofers to get into stock again. They were supposed to be shipped on 11/13 but now I see they are still on backorder until 12/8. :M

[FroDaddy]

Cool! I'm anxious to read your review once you're finished. I probably should have labeled the xover pic like you did, my apologies ops:

[deewan]

Cool! I'm anxious to read your review once you're finished. I probably should have labeled the xover pic like you did, my apologies ops:

Yeah you better be sorry. I almost trashed the whole project because of all the great pictures and directions you shared, a labeled photo of the crossover was not one of them. GEESH! (Hopefully everyone caught onto my sarcasm)

Once I get my 8 ohm resistor and can finish my crossover. I'll take a photo and try to be a cleaner job of labeling it for anyone else who decides to build this bad boy. FedEx man didn't come again today. I'm thinking about launching a search party because he must be lost. On a bright note, I got all the painting of the front baffle and rear of the cabinet done tonight. I will start on the "veneer" Sunday IF that darn resistor shows up.

[FroDaddy]

Yeah you better be sorry. I almost trashed the whole project because of all the great pictures and directions you shared, a labeled photo of the crossover was not one of them. GEESH! (Hopefully everyone my sarcasm)

Once I get my 8 ohm resistor and can finish my crossover. I'll take a photo and try to be a cleaner job of labeling it for anyone else who decides to build this bad boy. FedEx man didn't come again today. I'm thinking about launching a search party because he must be lost. On a bright note, I got all the painting of the front baffle and rear of the cabinet done tonight. I will start on the "veneer" Sunday IF that darn resistor shows up.

lol! FedEx is the more reliable service in my area and normally deliver faster than their estimates. Hopefully you can track it down!

[deewan]

Fed Ex is normally pretty good here, but since I was only getting a small package I guess FedEx handed it over to the USPS once it got into my town and then the USPS took two days to deliver it from there.

Here is this weekends update. Last night I finished the crossovers. Not the prettied things in the world, but fully functional and good solders, so I was happy. And since it was 1:00 in the morning, I forgot to take pictures of the crossovers. So FroDaddy's photo will have to make due. Sunday morning I installed the speaker binding posts and crossovers.

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That allowed me to put the top of the cabinet.

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Which then allowed me to veneer the top, bottom and two sides.

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Everything is sitting in the garage now just waiting for all the drivers. PE still says the Dayton woofers won't be in until 12/8. Ugh!

[deewan]

I thought I would post a quick photo of the size of the 2RCC. This is a bad photo taken in low light using my iPhone, but it should still give you an idea of the size when compared to my current center channel speaker (Paradigm CC-370). I can't wait to finish this project up. Just waiting on the drivers.

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Tomorrow while the ladies are out shopping for Black Friday I will be working on building a stand for this bad boy since my current shelf won't hold it.

[Jed]

Looks great so far. What a beast!

[FroDaddy]

For some reason to me this speaker looks small in pictures, but this comparison photo helps put it in perspective. I didn't see any dampening material in your mid chamber, but I read earlier in this thread where you planned on doing it.

Originally you said you wouldn't be in a rush, but it's coming together quickly!! Too bad the PE delays are slowing you down. Keep the pictures coming! :T

[deewan]

Yeah, the comparison to another center channel gives everyone an idea of the 2RCC’s size. It is really something else. Even more so when I always thought the CC-370 was a good sized speaker with its dual 6.5 drivers.

The dampening material for the mid camber is being delivered with the backordered drivers. So the finishing touches on the mid chamber are on hold too. That is why I have not attached the front baffle yet. I guess it is a good thing I was not in a hurry to finish this with the luck I have been having with the backordered items.

Once I get the drivers and sonic barrier from PE. I'll throw in the dampening material into the mid chamber, throw in some added insulation in the woofer chamber (will be testing different amounts to find one to my liking), and then add the drivers and away we go! I've decided to hold off on watching Star Trek (2009) and GI Joe until this speaker is done. I CAN'T WAIT MUCH LONGER.

[FroDaddy]

Yeah, the comparison to another center channel gives everyone an idea of the 2RCC’s size. It is really something else. Even more so when I always thought the CC-370 was a good sized speaker with its dual 6.5 drivers.

The dampening material for the mid camber is being delivered with the backordered drivers. So the finishing touches on the mid chamber are on hold too. That is why I have not attached the front baffle yet. I guess it is a good thing I was not in a hurry to finish this with the luck I have been having with the backordered items.

Once I get the drivers and sonic barrier from PE. I'll throw in the dampening material into the mid chamber, throw in some added insulation in the woofer chamber (will be testing different amounts to find one to my liking), and then add the drivers and away we go! I've decided to hold off on watching Star Trek (2009) and GI Joe until this speaker is done. I CAN'T WAIT MUCH LONGER.

Haha GI Joe probably isn't worth holding off on, if you watch it at all :rofl: But Star Trek absolutely would be worth the wait!

[deewan]

Great, now you just ruined the movie for me. (I kid!) I already watched the first 10 minutes of each movie. GI Joe was okay. Star Trek looked AMAZING. I've also read that Star Trek as some great LFE. So I am thinking about re-doing my subwoofer setup before watching that movie. Right now I have the Statements running full-range, soon have the 2RCC, and then a Paradigm DSP-10 sub filling in whatever they might lack. I'm thinking about adding something that might knock the earth off it's axis. Has Jim or Jed designed a Statement Subwoofer yet? :W Or maybe this is something I need to start designing myself. LOL.

[FroDaddy]

Great, now you just ruined the movie for me. (I kid!) I already watched the first 10 minutes of each movie. GI Joe was okay. Star Trek looked AMAZING. I've also read that Star Trek as some great LFE. So I am thinking about re-doing my subwoofer setup before watching that movie. Right now I have the Statements running full-range, soon have the 2RCC, and then a Paradigm DSP-10 sub filling in whatever they might lack. I'm thinking about adding something that might knock the earth off it's axis. Has Jim or Jed designed a Statement Subwoofer yet? :W Or maybe this is something I need to start designing myself. LOL.

I'm not biased at all (yea right), but consider an Infinite Baffle setup. You can buy some killer IB subwoofers today for great prices. Basically you need more drivers with high excursion for this, but it's so efficient you wouldn't need a big amp. But a traditional ported box can knock the earth off it's axis too and put out some crazy SPL with less drivers. I don't have much first hand experience with sealed subwoofers, though.

I used WinISD to model the enclosures and predict SPL output, and I consider a multiband EQ a requirement. I used a Behringer Feedback Destroyer (later adding an eQ.2 as well), then took measurements and tuned the system with RoomEQ Wizard. When I finished the Statements and 2rCC I liked a 60Hz crossover point on them, so I went back and tuned my subs so everything would blend together better.

After completing the Statements and soon to be 2rCC, building the subwoofer will be a piece of cake for you! Designing the DIY sub is the fun part, but don't get bogged down too much in the process. My tip would be to either build twice the system you think would be "enough", or build the enclosure and buy enough amp so that you can double the woofers later. If you EQ the system, you can tune the bass so that it does not overpower your mains but would deliver an earthly pole-reversing shockwave when called upon. Anyway hope I didn't hijack your 2rCC build thread too much :B

[deewan]

Thanks for the info Frodaddy. Hijack my thread all you like as long as it is speaker related. I just recently started looking into and reading about Infinitie Baffle setups. They look very interesting. I actually have an storage room next to my theater I thought about using for the box "end" of the sub. So the actual enclosure footprint in the theater would be zero. I currently have the walls acoustically treated and so the bottom half is covered with GOM. So firing the sub into the theater from the storage room wouldn't take much work at all. I wonder if I need to design some sort of array of subs, maybe a 18-12-10-12-18 inch lineup of drivers to mirror the 8-4-3-4-8 inch drivers in the 2RCC and Statements. Now THAT would be a Statement for a sub. And I'm sure a headache to model with all the different sub driver attributes.

Fro what size drivers do you have in your IB setup?

[FroDaddy]

Thanks for the info Frodaddy. Hijack my thread all you like as long as it is speaker related. I just recently started looking into and reading about Infinitie Baffle setups. They look very interesting. I actually have an storage room next to my theater I thought about using for the box "end" of the sub. So the actually closure footprint in the theater would be zero. I currently have the walls acoustically treated and so the bottom half is covered with GOM. So firing the sub into the theater from the storage room wouldn't take much work at all. I wonder if I need to design some sort of array of subs, maybe a 18-12-10-12-18 inch lineup of drivers to mirror the 8-4-3-4-8 inch drivers in the 2RCC and Statements. Now THAT would be a Statement for a sub. And I'm sure a headache to model with all the different sub driver attributes.

Fro what size drivers do you have in your IB setup?

I'm using 8 Dayton IB 15" woofers, but when I built my IB they were basically the only IB woofer available. They don't have a lot of excursion, nor is the build quality (thus sound quality) near today's IB subs. Comparatively 4 new FI Car Audio IB subwoofers would match the displacement/SPL of my system, and have much less distortion as well. Here are a couple of links to pictures:
outside
inside

I found that my 15" setup seemed to have a hard time being articulate with an 80Hz crossover point. Frequencies seemed to be too weighted up high, thus the 60Hz worked much better for me. But again I don't have high quality 15" woofers so I'm sure a better built subwoofer driver would have better sound quality.

I see where you're coming from with the mixed subwoofer sizes. Going from 8" mains all the way to a 15" or 18" subwoofer could have someone wanting to bridge the gap with a 12" or 10" midwoofer. I've drawn the line with my system and worked for many hours to EQ the IB to blend as seamlessly as my ears can detect at the 60Hz crossover point. It's not that I haven't thought about integrating side-firing 12" woofers in my Statement towers, but I just don't want to go that far with my system especially since I was able to EQ my IB satisfactorily. I do have a friend who is working on adding 10 or 12" woofers onto his .1 channel to compliment his extremely high SPL ported 18s, so your idea isn't off the mark. But I doubt having an IB with mixed driver sizes sharing the same airspace would work properly, though.

[deewan]

Thanks again for sharing. I remember seeing pictures of your IB sub (outside) in your Statement build thread.

I've always been curious if a sub with different sized drivers and cabinet types would work. I think about trying to build a sub with two 15 inch drivers in a ported chamber and two 10 inch drivers in a sealed chamber, all in one cabinet or bass box type deal. Think of the 2RCC cabinet if the woofer chamber was ported and BIGGER!

I’ve long felt that ported subs give better rumbling and thunderous bass, while sealed subs are a little more musical and have more of a chest kicking feel. My curiosity is peaked about the ability to build sub which drives the ported 15 inch drivers playing around 35-40Hz and below. Making them responsible for thunderous bass in movies which is intended to just "rumble" and doesn’t need to be precise or have that kick-like impact. Then the two 10 inch drivers in a sealed chamber crossed with over up top around 80Hz and snubbed on the bottom end around 25-30Hz so that they don’t buckle if called upon for some out of this world shaking. I realize with passive crossovers those points are not hard cut offs and are more of a rolloff. But hopefully I made sense of my idea. I got the idea from reading about the subs in this theater. The description of the different subwoofers made me think of my idea.

“The six (6) distinct divisions: Bass, Baritone, Tenor, Alto, Soprano, and Coloratura of this extra large orchestra are completely and separately amplified. The required fleet of over 50 cutting edge, state-of-the-art, hand-built amplifiers can produce a level of visceral and palpable sound that can only be equaled by reality.”

[FroDaddy]

That sounds very cool! 18's have a different feeling to them (ie. AWESOME), so perhaps you can consider those as well. There are some good brands to choose from in today's market. Going with traditional enclosures opens the door to a lot of configuration options as well. Good luck!! :T

[deewan]

Well, time to get this thread a little bit back on track. Since the cabinet and speaker are at a stand still until some backordered parts come in, I decided to use the long holiday weekend and build a stand for the 2RCC. My current setup uses a simple shelf, would not support the weight or size of the new center channel. So I decided to use some extra MDF I had laying around and build this.

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I used some math skills I never thought I would need past the 8th grade to determine the correct degree of tilt the upper shelf on the stand would need and the distance in front of the first and second row of seating in order to point the ribbon tweeter at ear level for both rows. Using a laser pointer taped to the top of the cabinet, I was able to determine the ribbon tweeter is pointed at ear level when sitting in the first row or when sitting higher on the bar stools in the second row. PERFECT!

[technodanvan]

^^^

Pythagoras approves of your 8th grade math!

It looks really nice, what holds the front of the speaker on though?

[deewan]

I designed the speaker stand with two braces on the shelf to keep the speaker from sliding back.

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I have the speaker stand painted with very flat black paint in hopes that no light would be reflected, but I'm not sure if I like the dull look. I might trying the same fine textured paint I used for all the speaker baffles.

[dumaresq]

I am guessing that CC doesn't do an lobbing? I thought it was based of the statements which do lob...

[deewan]

You know, I'm not 100% sure. I know Frodaddy has his CC placed below his screen and tilted up, so I figured I would be safe doing the same. Perhaps Jed can chime in and give an answer to your question.

[FroDaddy]

You know, I'm not 100% sure. I know Frodaddy has his CC placed below his screen and tilted up, so I figured I would be safe doing the same. Perhaps Jed can chime in and give an answer to your question.

It has some lobing built in and it does the task well:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=426095&postcount=27

I know the 2rCC's lobing would please many, but my ears perceive the best quality sound with an angled CC. This is true no matter which CC I've listened to, including the Statement Mini Center.

HTH

[deewan]

I finally got my backordered drivers from PE and will be putting the final touches on the 2RCC speaker this weekend. During my ordering process, I somehow ordered four of the Tang Band (W4-1337SA) midrange drivers instead of two. At first I was just going to send them back to PE, but now I am giving some thought to building a pair of computer monitors to be driven by a tube amp I am building this winter. Immediately I thought of building the D4 from Jed’s Lineup Series. Then I remember the tweeter is discontinued. And although I love the Fountek NeoCD3.0 tweeter, it pushes my budget higher than I want for a pair of computer monitors. So now I need to decide, keep the Tang Band’s or try to come up with another project. I guess worst case, I build a pair of Statement Monitors for the living room.

[john trials]

build pair of Statement Monitors.

As I was reading your post, that was what I was thinking.

[stgdz]

Great, now you just ruined the movie for me. (I kid!) I already watched the first 10 minutes of each movie. GI Joe was okay. Star Trek looked AMAZING. I've also read that Star Trek as some great LFE. So I am thinking about re-doing my subwoofer setup before watching that movie. Right now I have the Statements running full-range, soon have the 2RCC, and then a Paradigm DSP-10 sub filling in whatever they might lack. I'm thinking about adding something that might knock the earth off it's axis. Has Jim or Jed designed a Statement Subwoofer yet? :W Or maybe this is something I need to start designing myself. LOL.

may want to look into the THT that is all the rage over at AVS, 120db for $400 is a pretty good deal.

[deewan]

may want to look into the THT that is all the rage over at AVS, 120db for $400 is a pretty good deal.

I've looked into the THT a little. Not sold on it yet.

[deewan]

So, not only did I get double the Tang Band, somehow all of my order was doubled. I'm guessing it had something to do with me having all my items in the PE shopping cart AND THEN going back and entering the PE site from the HTGuide.com banner for PE. Since everything was doubled, I might be sending the extra Tang Bands back. If not, they will be used in some Statement Monitors. I'm on my way to vooleyball now, but at the latest tomorrow morning I should have a working 2RCC. I'll include some photos once it is done along with what I feel is the best fill of poly and dampening material.

[deewan]

Amazing! Fantastic! WOW!

My 2RCC is complete. The chamber lining was installed last night in the midrange/tweeter area. I added 1/3 pound of poly fill as well. I used the other 2/3 of poly fill in the woofer chamber. And sealed the cabinet up. Woke up this morning feeling like it was Christmas morning and I was 10 years old. I brushed my teeth and ran downstairs into the basement. And there she sat under the Christmas tree, errr, screen.

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I’ve been playing test tone sweeps through it all morning while I did other things around the house to break in the drivers. But I did give it a listen first thing this morning. It does not have the huge sound stage due to the lack of the midrange tunnels, but it does a great job of creating one. Much better than the Paradigm the 2RCC is replacing. Also, the drivers are not broken in yet. I next observed how much it sounds like The Statements. The bass is very equal, the midrange, and treble are all spot on. Jed, WONDERFUL job with the modified crossover.

If you do not have the ability to use the Statement CC due to the space required for it to breath, this is the next best thing. I’m not saying one is better or worse than the other, but the 2RCC can hold it’s own as a center channel with The Statements and I’m sure will kick the rear of most other center channel speakers. AGAIN, wonderful job to Jim, Wayne, and Curt on the Statements AND Jed for his modified crossover to give birth to the 2RCC. Thanks to all of you. And FroDaddy for blazing the trail! I owe each of you a beer or beverage of some sort.

[deewan]

Additional pictures just to show off the beauty of this speaker. FYI - I created this speaker completely black since it will eventually be put behind a screen.

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[DeathMonk]

Nice Job

[Jed]

Nice job and I'm glad this cc is enjoyed by more people!