The ECM-8000 is now the EMM-6 and comes calibrated

[ThomasW]

It takes phantom power and a mic pre-amp and a soundcard.

The Behringer XENYX 802 Mixer is the cheapest phantom power/mic pre-amp combo

If you have the soundcard, and the mic preamp, all you need is a $20 Behringer Ultra-Compact Phantom Power Supply PS400

[SoundOfNothing]

And the next best/ideal phantom power/mic preamp would be (one that you all would be comfortable using and trust accurate results from)?

[ThomasW]

M-Audio Mobile Pre

[evilskillit]

Thanks for the info, I'll have to do more reading to know exactly what I'd be getting into. I have a few various computers with soundblaster live soundcards and Terratec sound card which seems to be a clone of the M-audio Audiophile, so maybe one of those will work.

[anechoic]

I was cleaning out my lab and one of the empty boxes I was throwing out wasn't quite empty - I have one more EMM-6 that I'm selling as a Premium or Premium+ model. If ordered by 1pm, it will go out the same day. Go and get it.

And as far I as can tell, this really, REALLY is the last discounted one. Trust me.

edit: Well that was fast!

[JonP]

Cr#p... was going to put myself on the waiting list for leftovers/canceled orders... but didn't when they were "all gone".

[anechoic]

Cr#p... was going to put myself on the waiting list for leftovers/canceled orders... but didn't when they were "all gone".

I may have some good news - if I can get 20 or more orders, I can offer the discounted pricing. I have to run right now, but I'll set up a page later on my site for people who are interested.

[twest820]

if I can get 20 or more orders, I can offer the discounted pricing

I'm in. Looking forward to that page...

[anechoic]

Okay, this is going to be a two-step process.

Step 1: I put up this page to gauge interest. If there is enough interest, I will contact people directly (as well as posting updates here and on Home Theater Shack) that the deal is on, and we can go to:

Step 2: I'll put up a order page where people can place orders. I'll keep the page up for some window (maybe 3 or 4 days) to collect orders and then place the order with PE.

edit: So I'm an idiot... I put up the form but forgot to put up a "submit" button. It's fixed now.

Yes, I'll be collecting email address, no, they will not be used for anything other than contacting people to tell them that the deal is on or off. If you are paranoid about giving an email address, give your htguide username instead and I'll PM you when the time comes.

Also, I need to manage expectations - when I made this order during the PE sale last month I got overwhelmed with orders. Combined with having to travel cross-country to be in a wedding, a lot of people had to wait a good while to get their microphones. The good news is that in the last couple of weeks, I revamped my software processing and bought some new equipment so that everything is now pretty much automated (for example, polar measurements used to be a manual process using a lazy susan, but I've purchased a computer-controlled turntable that makes the process go much faster). I figure I should be able to process a couple dozen mics per day (about double my past rate). However, I am still at the mercy of PE/FedEx's shipping schedule but I should be able o get mics out much faster than last time. I should be able to provide a schedule during the pre-order period.

[anechoic]

Update: If I can get 5 more people, I'll pull the trigger.

[anechoic]

Okay, it looks like we're on for the group buy.

About half of the responses I got were of the "might buy" variety. If a good number of those decide to purchase the mic, I can pony up the cash for the remaining mics and we'll be in good shape. If all of them "might buy" responses don't decide not to buy, I'll probably cancel the deal.

My plan is to keep the sale open through Friday (maybe Saturday). I figure that if I can place the order by Friday or Monday, I should be able to turn around most (if not all) of the mics by the end of next week. However if I don't get enough orders, I will cancel the deal.

If you order a microphone and the deal is canceled, I *will* refund all of your money. (and if I try to keep you money, you can seek recourse through the Massachusetts Board of Professional Licensure and I can assure you that the amount of grief that will rain down on me is not worth the risk of trying to rip you off).

If you're ready to order, you can go over to my site to place your order.

As always, if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[anechoic]

Okay Boys and Girls, it's definitely on, I got enough pre-orders to make the minimum order. I'm going to accept orders through the weekend, close the page on Monday and place the order on Monday. The plan is to have the order shipped to me via two-day freight which means I'll get them late on Wed, I can start processing them on Thursday and I should be able to get a couple dozen orders out on Friday (I'm getting a lot of Basic orders which take much less time to process than Premium orders so things should move quickly). It is likely that orders made after today won't ship until Nov 7 or Nov 9. but unless I get completely overwhelmed with orders (which doesn't seem likely) I think I should be able to ship all orders by Nov 9 or 10th at the latest.

[anechoic]

FYI, Dayton deal ends tonight midnight (Monday 12am).

I will have extras available but I probably won't list them until next weekend. Please don't ask to be wait listed, when the extras are available I'll put them on the site and I'll announce it here and over on Home Theater Shack.

As I indicated earlier, I will continue to solicit interest in future group deals - after the extras are all gone, I'll put up a form at the aforementioned link to collect names of people who are interested in further groups purchases and once I get a dozen people or so, I'll repeat the deal.

Thanks for all the business guys.

[anechoic]

The last group of microphones has been packed, label and will be shipping out on Tuesday. I have four extra EMM-6 microphones left. If you want them, come and get 'em!

After those are sold out, I'll put up a sign-up page for interest in another group-buy, and when I get a minimum number, we can do this again.

Thanks again guys.

[Black300zx]

Wow - Great thread. I've been using the generic ECM8000 cal file from Claudio Negro's website ever since I got the mic, however the charts posted show that there's significant variance between ECM8000s. I had previously read that the ECM8000s were pretty consistent, but now I think I want to get mine calibrated.

[anechoic]

I've been busy collecting names for another EMM-6 group buy. However it turns out the PE is sold out of EMM-6 mics and won't have any more until next January. I am trying to see if I can get a group buy discount for the ECM8000 - if I can get similar pricing I intend to offer the same deal. In the meantime, the signup page is still up, just realize that for now if applies to ECM8000s, not EMM-6s.

BTW, if I do get the group rate, I'm going to have an additional "Black Friday" special - free domestic shipping (and discounted international shipping).

[anechoic]

I was not able to get discounted pricing on the ECM8000, but in the spirit of Black Friday, I'm offering ECM8000's at discounted EMM-6 prices.

[anechoic]

PE is having a special on EMM-6 microphones, which means I am having a special on these mics. Please note that PE is sold out of mics and won't have any in stock until mid-January, which means I will not be shipping them out until mid/late January.

For those that don't want me holding on to their money for 6-8 weeks, I will be buying a couple of dozen extra mics that I'll sell in January when I receive them (although I haven't decided if I'll sell them for the Black Friday price (see below) or the typical group-buy price. Prices for mics in this deal start at $65 for Basic mics, up to $90 for Premium+. To sweeten the deal, I'm going to offer one more incentive: orders placed between 12:00am - 11:59pm on Friday, Nov 29 will qualify for a $9 discount - this is equal to free shipping on domestic orders of single mics, and 25%-40% discount for international shipping.

The sale will continue through the weekend. I'll end the sale early on Sun evening so I can place the final PE orders.

[anechoic]

In case anyone is wondering, it looks like Dayton is finally assigning serial numbers to the EMM-6 by applying stickers to the mics. It also looks like I got the first of this new batch since I got serial numbers 0001-0010

[SpeakerGuy]

Any more recent tests showing if the included calibration is still useless or not?

PE recently had a D.O.T.D. on these at $38! I got one, I imagine a bunch of other folks did too.

[anechoic]

Any more recent tests showing if the included calibration is still useless or not?

PE recently had a D.O.T.D. on these at $38! I got one, I imagine a bunch of other folks did too.

Here's a comparison of my (Cross-Spectrum Labs) measurement vs the out-of-the-box Dayton cal graph for an EMM-6 from their latest batch that I ran a couple of months ago:



Overall, it's not too bad but it's pretty clear the low frequecy measurements are being made in a free-field environment. I hate to say it, but if all you're interested in is 30Hz to 20kHz on-axis response, the EMM-6 is a better buy than my "Basic" units. The only way I can match their pricing is by going straight to China and while I have the connections, I don't have the cash at the moment to order in the volumes they want.

The other thing is that Dayton specs the output impedance at 200 Hz, but another fella and I did our own measurements and found that the impedance is closer to 250-300 ohms than 200. Not a big deal if you're using a quality mic amp, but if you're counting on 200 ohms, you might have a problem.

[silvercans]

Anechoic looking at the first mic you measured (click here) and the latest the difference in the shape in the high end is quite different, why is that. Specifically the broad peak around 10k and sharp drop after?

Also it looks like the starting point of the dayton stock curve is shifted a bit to the left 5 hertz or so, I take it that curve is only for reference and doesn't effect your curves?

[anechoic]

Anechoic looking at the first mic you measured (click here) and the latest the difference in the shape in the high end is quite different, why is that. Specifically the broad peak around 10k and sharp drop after?

Also it looks like the starting point of the dayton stock curve is shifted a bit to the left 5 hertz or so, I take it that curve is only for reference and doesn't effect your curves?

That plot was for an execptionally flat mic. Here's a plot for a more typical mic from the same bunch:

Also it looks like the starting point of the dayton stock curve is shifted a bit to the left 5 hertz or so, I take it that curve is only for reference and doesn't effect your curves?

The Dayton curve from the September plot is taken from a scan of the paper copy Dayton included with their mics, and the curve started at ~25 Hz. For these last two plots, I got the curve data from Dayton's website (the mics now have serial numbers and you can download the data) and the data go down to 20 Hz.

[jkrutke]

It's pretty obvious to me that anyone serious about measurements still needs to get their mic calibrated by someone who knows what they are doing. It would have been nice if PE pulled off a decent calibration but it seems like an afterthought.

I suspect PE's mic measurement has a particularly reflective mic mounting method. If they could let people know what it is with a picture, maybe that could be replicated for more accuracy with their calibration file. I know that these mic mounts are generally worse than these.

[Dennis H]

With my EMM-6, Herb's calibration was pretty close to the paper curve, generally within a dB, but my mic was a 'good' one relatively speaking without much 10K hump. I think Herb said previously that the QC issue seems to be how far the mic capsule is inserted in the body and that changes HF behavior.

The biggest difference was the 1K sensitivity -- 8 mV/Pa as measured by Herb and approx 9.5 mV/Pa from the PE graph. Herb, out of curiosity, what's the accuracy/precision of your sensitivity measurement -- 8, 8.0, 8.00, etc.?

[anechoic]

It's pretty obvious to me that anyone serious about measurements still needs to get their mic calibrated by someone who knows what they are doing. It would have been nice if PE pulled off a decent calibration but it seems like an afterthought.

I appreciate the sentiment but I can definitely understand if someone wants to save the money. A Mercedes is better than a Kia, but the Kia will get you to the corner store just as well as the Mercedes will.

I suspect PE's mic measurement has a particularly reflective mic mounting method. If they could let people know what it is with a picture, maybe that could be replicated for more accuracy with their calibration file. I know that these mic mounts are generally worse than these.

Yeah, those butterfly mounts cause all sorts of diffraction and scattering problems. I did some measurements comparing the results of a butterfly mount to the results from the LinearX mic mount but I haven't written it up yet.

The other thing is the Dayton appears to be making the 20Hz - 20kHz measurement in one step - if they're using an impulse-response method like MLS or sweeps (which I suspect they are given their use of DAAS), their measurement requires a window of a minimum of 0.05 secs (it really should be longer for statistical reasons). Unless they're doing the measurement in a large anechoic chamber (doubtful given the mic cost), outdoors, or in a really large room (minimum dimension of 112ft), they can't escape reflections from contaminating the experiment. I gave up on trying to capture the measurement in one shot and I do the measurement in too parts - a high frequency free-field measurement with a tight window and a low frequency pressure-field measurement with no window - and then combine the plots in the 200-300 Hz region where the curves overlap.

It takes longer, but gets much smoother results in the mid and high frequencies.

[anechoic]

The biggest difference was the 1K sensitivity -- 8 mV/Pa as measured by Herb and approx 9.5 mV/Pa from the PE graph. Herb, out of curiosity, what's the accuracy/precision of your sensitivity measurement -- 8, 8.0, 8.00, etc.?

I use a Type 1 acoustical calibrator (Genrad 1968 omnical) with a NIST-traceable accuracy/precision of 94 dB +/- 0.5 dB so the final sensitivity should be accurate to within +/- 0.8 mV.

[Dennis H]

About mic booms and clips, seems like some thick foam or felt would help the reflections a bunch.

[anechoic]

About mic booms and clips, seems like some thick foam or felt would help the reflections a bunch.

I fooled around with that and found that it caused more problems than it solved since the foam I used wasn't equality absorptive at all frequencies and the geometry of the foam itself caused scattering problems. It might work with the proper material molded to the proper shape but I don't have the wherewithal to figure out what the right combination should be.

[Saurav]

I just got my EMM-6 from Herb at Cross Spectrum Labs. Here's the comparison of his calibration vs. PE:



Red is from CSL, blue is from PE. No additional smoothing applied by HOLM.

Mic serial number 0115 from PE, 317 from CSL. Not sure how old this unit is. Herb's said that recent mics have fairly accurate calibration from PE, and he considers that a better buy than buying from him I think the calibration is worth the extra 30 bucks though. That 1dB difference is in a fairly important frequency region, I think. And of course, now I don't have to wonder if my mic has accurate calibration data from PE. Or maybe I'm just trying to justify my purchase

[anechoic]

Mic serial number 0115 from PE, 317 from CSL. Not sure how old this unit is.

The 100's date from around the beginning of 2010. Dayton started assigning serial numbers in the late fall, and near as I can tell, roughly 150 of the first 200 or so mics have come through me. The "newer" ones start around 300 (and they actually come with a little mic info/spec sheet in addition to the fr curve).

PE has been sending me a combo of the old and new mics so it looks like they still have some of the older mics in stock. I was actually surprised to see that the listed serial #'s are so low (and more surprised to see that I'm apparently their biggest customer), I would have thought that they would have sold a lot more. That may be why they're having the sale.

In any event, the EMM-6 is a great mic for the money. Whether you buy it from me or buy it straight from PE, if you need a mic, get one.

[Saurav]

Thanks, that's good info. So the 300+ serial number units have the more accurate calibration, and if I'd bought it from PE, I might have ended up with one of the older ones. See, I knew I did the right thing buying it from you

[TEK]

It takes phantom power and a mic pre-amp and a soundcard.

The Behringer XENYX 802 Mixer is the cheapest phantom power/mic pre-amp combo

If you have the soundcard, and the mic preamp, all you need is a $20 Behringer Ultra-Compact Phantom Power Supply PS400

Came over this thread while looking for the right measurement gear.
Just tought I should mention that my findings indicates that the Behringer XENYX 502 also can be used as it now comes with +48v phanttom power, ref http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/502.aspx
"And with the new addition of +48 V phantom power, the possibilities are even greater"

regards, TEK

[ThomasW]

Good to know...... :T

Xenya is their newer series of mixers. The older version of the 502 lacked phantom power.

[cjd]

FWIW some good external sound cards have phantom power too. Mine is M-Audio.

[chrisgehlen]

Calibration file from Dayton

Hi,

This topic it's old, but I wanna share with you my history. A few days ago I bought a EMM6 from Dayton just for checking. I was in contact with Herb too, so I'll buy a Calibrated EMM6 from him in the next month.
The file wich it's available from the Dayton website for my mic serial number (3663) came in chinese (or something like that). How lucky I am, no? :M
Just for checking I've downloaded another files (from others serial number see the attachments) and they are fine.

[BOBinGA]

That looks like a call to PE tech support is the next step.

-Bob

[anechoic]

Hi,

This topic it's old, but I wanna share with you my history. A few days ago I bought a EMM6 from Dayton just for checking. I was in contact with Herb too, so I'll buy a Calibrated EMM6 from him in the next month.
The file wich it's available from the Dayton website for my mic serial number (3663) came in chinese (or something like that). How lucky I am, no? :M
Just for checking I've downloaded another files (from others serial number see the attachments) and they are fine.

What's wrong with the file? It seems okay to me.

[benchtester]

font?

I couldn't read it in notepad, but I could in word. So I changed the font to arial and it looks ok in notepad.

Does it look okay to you?

[chrisgehlen]

I don't know what was wrong about the file but after a chat with Parts-Express they re-send the file by email and now it's ok.

I have a print screen of the defective file but it's too large to be attached.



Regards,